Diverenge RE: anon trust verses anon moderation

[zbfyp]

Indeed my point. Most of it happens because its allowed, you are allowed to post scams in the investor based games and no one will tell you anything, you can sell accounts etc etc.

The lending section as well its full of newbie scammers, easy solution, dont allow newbies and jr.members to post on the lending section. There are plenty of solutions for each problem but in the end nothing happens and the scammers still win.

Again, back to my point... does banning them stop them? No, it barely slows them down, and it has side effects for other users who may use the same services as the scammer with no ill intent, not to mention innocent people who are accused and forced to prove their innocence to angry mobs. The real question is, what makes you think you can stop them? Why is it Mastercard and Visa haven't been able to solve this problem yet, but you think you have the solution?

What an odd way of seeing things -- "Mastercard and Visa haven't been able to solve this problem yet." MasterCard and Visa don't let the carders keep using the stolen numbers once it's been established that carders are carders and stolen numbers are stolen numbers.  Yet that's exactly what happens here -- the scammer is free to continue scamming. We've even started a new section specifically for ponzis

Please tell me how you can really honestly say you are punishing or stopping scammers using these methods. Calling people out is one thing, but then when you enter into messing with the trust system and banning you are entering a whole new arena of vectors for additional abuse and obfuscation.

When I discover a thief in my house, I throw him out. Call me crazy.

[XinXan]

Indeed my point. Most of it happens because its allowed, you are allowed to post scams in the investor based games and no one will tell you anything, you can sell accounts etc etc.

The lending section as well its full of newbie scammers, easy solution, dont allow newbies and jr.members to post on the lending section. There are plenty of solutions for each problem but in the end nothing happens and the scammers still win.

Again, back to my point... does banning them stop them? No, it barely slows them down, and it has side effects for other users who may use the same services as the scammer with no ill intent, not to mention innocent people who are accused and forced to prove their innocence to angry mobs. The real question is, what makes you think you can stop them? Why is it Mastercard and Visa haven't been able to solve this problem yet, but you think you have the solution?

What an odd way of seeing things -- "Mastercard and Visa haven't been able to solve this problem yet." MasterCard and Visa don't let the carders keep using the stolen numbers once it's been established that carders are carders and stolen numbers are stolen numbers.  Yet that's exactly what happens here -- the scammer is free to continue scamming. We've even started a new section specifically for ponzis

Please tell me how you can really honestly say you are punishing or stopping scammers using these methods. Calling people out is one thing, but then when you enter into messing with the trust system and banning you are entering a whole new arena of vectors for additional abuse and obfuscation.

When I discover a thief in my house, I throw him out. Call me crazy.

Innocent people who are accused, thats happening already, whats your point with that one? Even in real life sometimes innocent people will go to jail but that doesnt mean we shouldng throw anyone to jail. If you ban the obvious scammers you are punishing them because they will have to create another account and wait several months to get a normal rank if they intend to scam again, also you are stopping thrm from posting in the forum, why shuld we let scammers post in the forum anyways? I always see people with -100 ratings posting here like nothing happened after they have stolen btc from people.

[erikalui]

Again, back to my point... does banning them stop them? No, it barely slows them down, and it has side effects for other users who may use the same services as the scammer with no ill intent, not to mention innocent people who are accused and forced to prove their innocence to angry mobs. The real question is, what makes you think you can stop them? Why is it Mastercard and Visa haven't been able to solve this problem yet, but you think you have the solution?

@bold: Answer is no. But I wish to know if sending thieves to jail stops them from robbing again. I guess no as thieves again get out of jail and start robbing people. So does that mean they shouldn't be punished. I don't say that scammers should be banned but they should be warned before getting banned. They need to know that they need to leave this forum if they want to scam but as of now they are welcomed to open a new account and continue scamming.

[Muhammed Zakir]

Again, back to my point... does banning them stop them? No, it barely slows them down, and it has side effects for other users who may use the same services as the scammer with no ill intent, not to mention innocent people who are accused and forced to prove their innocence to angry mobs. The real question is, what makes you think you can stop them? Why is it Mastercard and Visa haven't been able to solve this problem yet, but you think you have the solution?

@bold: Answer is no. But I wish to know if sending thieves to jail stops them from robbing again. I guess no as thieves again get out of jail and start robbing people. So does that mean they shouldn't be punished. I don't say that scammers should be banned but they should be warned before getting banned. They need to know that they need to leave this forum if they want to scam but as of now they are welcomed to open a new account and continue scamming.

1. Do thieves get out of jail?
A) Rarely.

2. Do banned users evade ban?
A) Almost always!

[XinXan]

Again, back to my point... does banning them stop them? No, it barely slows them down, and it has side effects for other users who may use the same services as the scammer with no ill intent, not to mention innocent people who are accused and forced to prove their innocence to angry mobs. The real question is, what makes you think you can stop them? Why is it Mastercard and Visa haven't been able to solve this problem yet, but you think you have the solution?

@bold: Answer is no. But I wish to know if sending thieves to jail stops them from robbing again. I guess no as thieves again get out of jail and start robbing people. So does that mean they shouldn't be punished. I don't say that scammers should be banned but they should be warned before getting banned. They need to know that they need to leave this forum if they want to scam but as of now they are welcomed to open a new account and continue scamming.

1. Do thieves get out of jail?
A) Rarely.

2. Do banned users evade ban?
A) Almost always!

When you ban an user you make it hard for him to scam again, as i said he would create a new account, yes but that account would be a newbie account (much more harder to scam with a newbie account)

What do you get by not banning them? You let them free here, they would still create a new account, so what are you doing exactly? nothing.

[erikalui]

1. Do thieves get out of jail?
A) Rarely.

2. Do banned users evade ban?
A) Almost always!

1) Ofcourse Yes. I have never heard about a thief getting a life imprisonment/death penalty.

Whoever commits theft shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both.

Reference: http://www.indianlawcases.com/Act-Indian.Penal.Code,1860-1839

In Saudi Arabia, I guess they cut off the hands of the robber.

In all countries, there is a punishment for theft but on BCT, punishment is a red marking 

2) Banned users who evade ban are banned again.

[Muhammed Zakir]

When you ban an user you make it hard for him to scam again, as i said he would create a new account, yes but that account would be a newbie account (much more harder to scam with a newbie account)

A newbie account is better for scamming than higher ranked user with negative trust rating. There has been many circumstances where people are scammed by newbies.

What do you get by not banning them? You let them free here, they would still create a new account, so what are you doing exactly? nothing.

We ban them, they create new accounts always.
We don't ban them, they probably create new accounts most times but not always.

So what is the real advantage here?

-snip-
In all countries, there is a punishment for theft but on BCT, punishment is a red marking 

How can you actually punish them? Is ban a punishment?

2) Banned users who evade ban are banned again.

Only sometimes, not always.

[XinXan]

When you ban an user you make it hard for him to scam again, as i said he would create a new account, yes but that account would be a newbie account (much more harder to scam with a newbie account)

A newbie account is better for scamming than higher ranked user with negative trust rating. There has been many circumstances where people are scammed by newbies.

What do you get by not banning them? You let them free here, they would still create a new account, so what are you doing exactly? nothing.

We ban them, they create new accounts always.
We don't ban them, they probably create new accounts most times but not always.

So what is the real advantage here?

-snip-
In all countries, there is a punishment for theft but on BCT, punishment is a red marking 

How can you actually punish them? Is ban a punishment?

2) Banned users who evade ban are banned again.

Only sometimes, not always.

You are so stubborn and you keep saying the same things, i explaned it clearly. There is 2 options.

Ban the scammer or dont ban the scammer

If you dont ban him he will still be able to use his account and he can create a new account whenever he wants

If you ban him he wont be able to use his account and he can create a new account whenever he wants to, why should we let scammers post on their main accounts here? Just look at KoS he has plenty of alt accounts and no one of them is banned, he can keep creating them, at least ban his alt accounts to clear the forum from trash.

[Muhammed Zakir]

You are so stubborn and you keep saying the same things, i explaned it clearly. There is 2 options.

Ban the scammer or dont ban the scammer

If you dont ban him he will still be able to use his account and he can create a new account whenever he wants

If you ban him he wont be able to use his account and he can create a new account whenever he wants to, why should we let scammers post on their main accounts here? Just look at KoS he has plenty of alt accounts and no one of them is banned, he can keep creating them, at least ban his alt accounts to clear the forum from trash.

I got your point. It looks like I don't agree with you and you don't agree with me. If anybody can post a point which supports banning scammers, then I may rethink about my stance. For now, I am for not banning scammers and I explain 'why' above.