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Author Topic: Epicenter Bitcoin interview - Mike Hearn  (Read 2276 times)
RoadStress
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June 11, 2015, 02:14:00 PM
 #41

Another disturbing point: Hearn said very few bitcoin nodes are run through Tor. I don't know if that's true, but I think people who run full nodes from an IP that can be traced to them are very naive.

The fact that very few run through Tor makes your statement brainless and useless. I haven't heard of anyone having problems, but maybe you know something that I don't or you are just spreading useless FUD.

You're probably right. Yesterday I was probably extra paranoid because I saw the story that commenters on an article at Reason about the Silk Road were being targetted by a government prosecutor. In the light of the morning, I can see it's a little outlandish to think that the government will start targetting people because they ran a bitcoin full node. That would be like government revenue agencies targetting people because of their political activism. We're fortunate enough to live in a time and place when that sort of thing doesn't happen.

/s

Well this is what I call "knowing only half of the information". Do you know what were the actual comments that started this targeting?

Regarding nodes. Do you see a massive increase in people that get arrested for being a peer in the torrent network? Because I don't.

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June 11, 2015, 03:35:14 PM
Last edit: June 11, 2015, 04:03:35 PM by tvbcof
 #42

...
Regarding nodes. Do you see a massive increase in people that get arrested for being a peer in the torrent network? Because I don't.

I see two basic possibilities:

 1) Everything remains peaches and cream in fiat-land.

  1R)  Bitcoin serves no particularly useful role.  Remains a minor sideshow which cannot compete successfully with Mastercard, PayPal, cash, etc because it does some fraction of what these things do for mainstream users only worse.


 2)  There is disruption in fiat-land.

  2R)  Bitcoin provides an accessible (unlike gold) means of wealth preservation for the non-politically-favored.  In that case it will be attacked by the corp/gov state with no holds barred and some abstract ideas about 'freedom to use Bitcoin' will be among the last of the rights that people will be worried about having lost.


A non-defensible Bitcoin is something I haven't much interest in personally, but whatever floats your boat.

With respect to TOR, the govt doesn't need to outlaw it to kill it; ceasing to fund it would probably be sufficient to accomplish this.  One of the few places I agree with Hearn on is that some reliance on TOR is worth sacrificing much to achieve.  If Bitcoin cannot feasibly run on some combination of a privately maintained and somewhat covert networks and steganographic methods on corporate owned networks, it can easily be degraded to the point of uselessness.  And probably will be just in time for it's having some actually useful role in the world.

edit: added 'cash' to the list which is highly relevant in that context.

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J. J. Phillips
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June 11, 2015, 03:44:48 PM
 #43

Another disturbing point: Hearn said very few bitcoin nodes are run through Tor. I don't know if that's true, but I think people who run full nodes from an IP that can be traced to them are very naive.

The fact that very few run through Tor makes your statement brainless and useless. I haven't heard of anyone having problems, but maybe you know something that I don't or you are just spreading useless FUD.

You're probably right. Yesterday I was probably extra paranoid because I saw the story that commenters on an article at Reason about the Silk Road were being targetted by a government prosecutor. In the light of the morning, I can see it's a little outlandish to think that the government will start targetting people because they ran a bitcoin full node. That would be like government revenue agencies targetting people because of their political activism. We're fortunate enough to live in a time and place when that sort of thing doesn't happen.

/s

Well this is what I call "knowing only half of the information". Do you know what were the actual comments that started this targeting?

Yes, I do know the comments. They were listed in a secret subpeona that got leaked. More info, along with explanations why the comments are not threats and perfectly legal can be found here:

https://popehat.com/2015/06/08/department-of-justice-uses-grand-jury-subpoena-to-identify-anonymous-commenters-on-a-silk-road-post-at-reason-com/

One example is:
Quote
Its judges like these that should be taken out back and shot.
This is a deontological statement, a statement about how the world should be. A threat would look like, "I am going to shoot this judge." None of the comments were of this form.

Here is another example:
Quote
I hope there is a special place in hell reserved for that horrible woman.
Really? It's illegal to say that? That's a "threat"?

Something's wrong with people who defend this kind of tyrannical overreach by government prosecutors.

Regarding nodes. Do you see a massive increase in people that get arrested for being a peer in the torrent network? Because I don't.

No, but retroactive paranoia is notoriously ineffective.

Suppose Alice and Bob both run Bitcoin full nodes. Alice is paranoid and runs her node over Tor. Bob thinks she's nuts and runs his in the clear. He doesn't believe there's any risk that a tyrannical government will use the fact that he runs a Bitcoin node to target him and use it as an excuse to punish him (perhaps for something unrelated in his personal life, like multiple visits to an island with Bill Clinton and Jeffrey Epstein).

Two futures are possible:

Alice is right. Bob goes to prison and Alice doesn't.
Bob is right. Neither goes to prison. Bob gets to keep fucking kids with Bill Clinton.

In both possible futures Alice was the prudent one, not to mention that Bob was a pedo who should be taken out back and shot and end up in a special place in hell.

PS: tvbcof beat me to the punch with his "two basic possibilities" post above. I should've typed faster.

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RoadStress
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June 11, 2015, 08:05:53 PM
 #44

I see two basic possibilities:
 2)  There is disruption in fiat-land.

  2R)  Bitcoin provides an accessible (unlike gold) means of wealth preservation for the non-politically-favored.  In that case it will be attacked by the corp/gov state with no holds barred and some abstract ideas about 'freedom to use Bitcoin' will be among the last of the rights that people will be worried about having lost.

When number 2 will happen the corp/gov state (I am sure that you are talking mainly about US here and not considering the rest of the countries) won't be able to do anything. Most of the US senate/gov is backed up by corporate money and when they will shift towards bitcoin the gov will be naked.

Yes, I do know the comments. They were listed in a secret subpeona that got leaked. More info, along with explanations why the comments are not threats and perfectly legal can be found here:
...

Ok. So you know the comments and your points are valid. Fair enough. US is really a joke state when it comes to this shit. Yes I am aware that they are also the greatest nation in the world and that they got us many many good things that can't compare with the other countries, but stuff like this and many others will also get them the fall even if they think that they are invincible.

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June 12, 2015, 02:57:39 AM
 #45

I see two basic possibilities:
 2)  There is disruption in fiat-land.

  2R)  Bitcoin provides an accessible (unlike gold) means of wealth preservation for the non-politically-favored.  In that case it will be attacked by the corp/gov state with no holds barred and some abstract ideas about 'freedom to use Bitcoin' will be among the last of the rights that people will be worried about having lost.

When number 2 will happen the corp/gov state (I am sure that you are talking mainly about US here and not considering the rest of the countries) won't be able to do anything. Most of the US senate/gov is backed up by corporate money and when they will shift towards bitcoin the gov will be naked.



so have some money in stocks and some in bitcoin. then you win no matter what happens.

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