question

[BayAreaCoins]

This thread went from Bitcoin Discussion -> Altcoin Discussion and back to BTC Discussion... why is this not in the Alt part of these forums?

It was never in the altcoin section. What are you taking about?

mmmm pretty sure I saw it in the altcoin section for a few day and then it moved back here.

I believe it belongs in the altcoin section.

Mike Hearn: In about 1-2 weeks, DOGE will include support for 20mb blocks

[R2D221]

This thread went from Bitcoin Discussion -> Altcoin Discussion and back to BTC Discussion... why is this not in the Alt part of these forums?

It was never in the altcoin section. What are you taking about?

mmmm pretty sure I saw it in the altcoin section for a few day and then it moved back here.

I believe it belongs in the altcoin section.

Mike Hearn: In about 1-2 weeks, DOGE will include support for 20mb blocks

It was in the Alternative CLIENTS section.

Also, why are you bringing doge into this? 

[BayAreaCoins]

This thread went from Bitcoin Discussion -> Altcoin Discussion and back to BTC Discussion... why is this not in the Alt part of these forums?

It was never in the altcoin section. What are you taking about?

mmmm pretty sure I saw it in the altcoin section for a few day and then it moved back here.

I believe it belongs in the altcoin section.

Mike Hearn: In about 1-2 weeks, DOGE will include support for 20mb blocks

It was in the Alternative CLIENTS section.

Also, why are you bringing doge into this? 

Mike Hearn: In about 1-2 weeks, Litecoin will include support for 20mb blocks

Happy?

[R2D221]

This thread went from Bitcoin Discussion -> Altcoin Discussion and back to BTC Discussion... why is this not in the Alt part of these forums?

It was never in the altcoin section. What are you taking about?

mmmm pretty sure I saw it in the altcoin section for a few day and then it moved back here.

I believe it belongs in the altcoin section.

Mike Hearn: In about 1-2 weeks, DOGE will include support for 20mb blocks

It was in the Alternative CLIENTS section.

Also, why are you bringing doge into this?

Mike Hearn: In about 1-2 weeks, Litecoin will include support for 20mb blocks

Happy?

Why are you bringing Litecoin into this?

[BayAreaCoins]

This thread went from Bitcoin Discussion -> Altcoin Discussion and back to BTC Discussion... why is this not in the Alt part of these forums?

It was never in the altcoin section. What are you taking about?

mmmm pretty sure I saw it in the altcoin section for a few day and then it moved back here.

I believe it belongs in the altcoin section.

Mike Hearn: In about 1-2 weeks, DOGE will include support for 20mb blocks

It was in the Alternative CLIENTS section.

Also, why are you bringing doge into this?

Mike Hearn: In about 1-2 weeks, Litecoin will include support for 20mb blocks

Happy?

Why are you bringing Litecoin into this?

What does DOGE, Litecoin and Bitcoin XT have in common? 

[nicked]

Ding Ding Ding! They are all Alts.

[Nxtblg]

This thread went from Bitcoin Discussion -> Altcoin Discussion and back to BTC Discussion... why is this not in the Alt part of these forums?

It was never in the altcoin section. What are you taking about?

Actually, it was for a time: that's how I found it.

[BayAreaCoins]

This thread went from Bitcoin Discussion -> Altcoin Discussion and back to BTC Discussion... why is this not in the Alt part of these forums?

It was never in the altcoin section. What are you taking about?

Actually, it was for a time: that's how I found it.

Mpreps strikes again?

Why is this altcoin conversation in "Bitcoin Discussion"?

[R2D221]

This thread went from Bitcoin Discussion -> Altcoin Discussion and back to BTC Discussion... why is this not in the Alt part of these forums?

It was never in the altcoin section. What are you taking about?

mmmm pretty sure I saw it in the altcoin section for a few day and then it moved back here.

I believe it belongs in the altcoin section.

Mike Hearn: In about 1-2 weeks, DOGE will include support for 20mb blocks

It was in the Alternative CLIENTS section.

Also, why are you bringing doge into this?

Mike Hearn: In about 1-2 weeks, Litecoin will include support for 20mb blocks

Happy?

Why are you bringing Litecoin into this?

What does DOGE, Litecoin and Bitcoin XT have in common? 

Nothing, that's why I don't get what you're trying to say.

[BayAreaCoins]

This thread went from Bitcoin Discussion -> Altcoin Discussion and back to BTC Discussion... why is this not in the Alt part of these forums?

It was never in the altcoin section. What are you taking about?

mmmm pretty sure I saw it in the altcoin section for a few day and then it moved back here.

I believe it belongs in the altcoin section.

Mike Hearn: In about 1-2 weeks, DOGE will include support for 20mb blocks

It was in the Alternative CLIENTS section.

Also, why are you bringing doge into this?

Mike Hearn: In about 1-2 weeks, Litecoin will include support for 20mb blocks

Happy?

Why are you bringing Litecoin into this?

What does DOGE, Litecoin and Bitcoin XT have in common?  

Nothing, that's why I don't get what you're trying to say.

Ding Ding Ding! They are all Alts.

 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=67.0

[R2D221]

Bitcoin XT is an alt the same way Electrum and MultiBit are alts.

[Westin Landon Cox]

Bitcoin XT is an alt the same way Electrum and MultiBit are alts.

I'm going to have to disagree with this, but I understand why you're saying it. In a sense, Bitcoin XT is an alternative wallet for Bitcoin, like Electrum and MultiBit are. This supports what you're saying. However, Electrum and MultiBit (AFAIK) do not change the consensus algorithm. Bitcoin XT is about to change the consensus algorithm.

Suppose Electrum updated their wallet so that it would check a different POW algorithm than sha256 after a certain block height. It's clear to me that after that block height it would no longer be a wallet for Bitcoin. One could argue that it's no longer a wallet for Bitcoin as soon as the alternative code is released. It might agree with Bitcoin for a while, but the fact that the consensus code is different means it isn't the same coin -- it will just appear to be for a while.

Bitcoin XT is in the process of changing the consensus code. I understand that the people who support this change will insist on calling it "Bitcoin." But if both chains survive, it seems like the one following the older consensus algorithm has more of a claim to the older name.

I know that the official position of those in favor of bigger blocks is: the old chain will not survive. I'm not sure if this is wishful thinking or a strategy to keep people who support Bitcoin (as it is defined today) from trying to see it through this crisis.

[Lauda]

I'm going to have to disagree with this, but I understand why you're saying it. In a sense, Bitcoin XT is an alternative wallet for Bitcoin, like Electrum and MultiBit are. This supports what you're saying. However, Electrum and MultiBit (AFAIK) do not change the consensus algorithm. Bitcoin XT is about to change the consensus algorithm.

Suppose Electrum updated their wallet so that it would check a different POW algorithm than sha256 after a certain block height. It's clear to me that after that block height it would no longer be a wallet for Bitcoin. One could argue that it's no longer a wallet for Bitcoin as soon as the alternative code is released. It might agree with Bitcoin for a while, but the fact that the consensus code is different means it isn't the same coin -- it will just appear to be for a while.

Bitcoin XT is in the process of changing the consensus code. I understand that the people who support this change will insist on calling it "Bitcoin." But if both chains survive, it seems like the one following the older consensus algorithm has more of a claim to the older name.

I know that the official position of those in favor of bigger blocks is: the old chain will not survive. I'm not sure if this is wishful thinking or a strategy to keep people who support Bitcoin (as it is defined today) from trying to see it through this crisis.

Well I could only partially agree. Bitcoin XT is currently similar to them as it is an alternative. However, are Electrum or Multibit going to do a hard fork and start a new chain? I doubt it.
There is a difference. The worst part of it is that they want it done so bad that they would even consider doing it will much less than 95% consensus.
I've started questioning their really intentions with this.

[BayAreaCoins]

MOD: Please move this to the altcoin section.

[jeannemadrigal2]

MOD: Please move this to the altcoin section.

Sorry this talk is about bitcoins and should be here in this section.

Westin, how do you think there will be two chains?  Even if there is a second 5% chain, no one will take those coins as payment, and no one will want to mine on that chain.  Even if there are those coins they will be useless if nobody will use them.

[Meuh6879]

Wait, you can sync the entire 6+ year blockchain in 1 hour? how's that even possible? what are you system specs and how much does it take to sync the entire network in Bitcoin Core for comparative purposes?

easy done with a server and a 1gb/s connexion ... french member have report this, too with a 0.10.x branch.

Code:

Serveur Dedibox LT 2014
Xeon E3 1230v2
16 Go
2 x 1 To
1Gbit/sec

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=804641.msg9651523#msg9651523

[keyscore44]

This thread went from Bitcoin Discussion -> Altcoin Discussion and back to BTC Discussion... why is this not in the Alt part of these forums?

It was never in the altcoin section. What are you taking about?

The XT threads were moved over to the alt section and have since been moved back: 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1090801.0

Once XT hardforks, it will be an altcoin. I was thinking that it was supposed to hardfork today, so I didn't move the threads back when I saw them moved yesterday. I moved them back for now.

[Westin Landon Cox]

This thread went from Bitcoin Discussion -> Altcoin Discussion and back to BTC Discussion... why is this not in the Alt part of these forums?

It was never in the altcoin section. What are you taking about?

The XT threads were moved over to the alt section and have since been moved back: 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1090801.0

Once XT hardforks, it will be an altcoin. I was thinking that it was supposed to hardfork today, so I didn't move the threads back when I saw them moved yesterday. I moved them back for now.

As someone who started one of the XT threads, I can confirm this is true. I not only saw it, I got email notifications when it was moved and when it was moved back. Both times it was moved by "anonymous."

[Westin Landon Cox]

Westin, how do you think there will be two chains?  Even if there is a second 5% chain, no one will take those coins as payment, and no one will want to mine on that chain.  Even if there are those coins they will be useless if nobody will use them.

Let me first say that we agree that if the Core-chain drops to only 5% of the mining power, it's likely not to survive.

I do, however, think there are many plausible scenarios in which the Core-chain survives. It only needs to make it through the first two difficulty adjustments after the fork. I suspect this will be easiest if the real fork happens (the first >1MB block is successfully mined) approximately halfway through the adjustment period.

Suppose Gavin's threshold of 75% of miners is met, but only just. With 25% of the miners still mining on the original chain, the Core-chain would drop to approximately one block every 40 minutes and the difficulty adjustment would come within 2 months. That's survivable. Once it's clear it can survive, it's even possible some miners come back. A lot would depend on the Core price vs. XT price, if that can even be measured during those first few days and weeks.

Here's an even more likely scenario. It's easy to imagine the XT miner votes plateauing at, say, 60% for a few months. I've read enough of these threads to feel confident that the reaction to that will not be, "oh well, we can't get the miners on board, so let's stick with the 1MB cap." The reaction will be to lower the threshold. This became very clear to me after seeing that clip of Mike Hearn saying that he would support the fork even with a minority of the hashing power. It's very clear to me that if the Core-chain can maintain at least 40% of the mining power than it will survive.

Don't get me wrong. I think a fork will be a disaster for the price of both coins. Not to mention colored coins and counterparty. A fork of bitcoin will fork those too.

I'm not a miner, so I don't really need to pick a side here. There are good arguments both for and against raising the block size limit. I get the feeling those in favor of raising the block size limit have convinced themselves they're 95% and there are 5% of holdouts, roughly. If they're right, then probably this hard fork won't be nearly as dramatic as it could've been. But I think they're wrong, and I think there's no way to convince them they're wrong except through the fork itself.

Sorry for the wall of text. This issue's been keeping my mind busy.

[smoothie]

More than 2 weeks has passed...