3000-6000 BTC loan - Hookah Lounge - 9/18/12 Update

[dank]

What made those legends any different?  Was it because they learned their self?  Maybe I am rare?

With the amount of insults you've been throwing around, you sound to be the only one with hurt feelings.  I couldn't care less what you say of me.

Budget, start up cost, at $4820 for hookah supplies and point of sale equipment.

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[Francesco]

Because it's been like explaining to a child why they can't flap their arms, fart, and fly to the moon.

Wait, are you saying I can't?  I just got a loan on these forums for 10.000 BTC to bootstrap my business selling lunar rocks!
Nah, you must be just spreading negativity. Can't hear you over the sound of how intelligent I am, lalalala!
Now just look how elegantly I jump out my windoooooooo...

[Monster-Ant]

What made those legends any different?

They didn't spend all their posting on a forum, fiddling with a guitar, and spend YEARS working 18 hour days to achieve success.

They did research, got advice, asked for help, listened to what other people said even if it was the cold hard truth, and strove to improve and educate themselves.

 Was it because they learned their self?  Maybe I am rare?

No, Dank, you aren't rare.

You're just another dreamer with delusions of grandeur who thinks he knows better than anyone else and can achieve things by wishing really hard.

With the amount of insults you've been throwing around, you sound to be the only one with hurt feelings.

Heh. You're used to hug-boxes, aren't you.

 I couldn't care less what you say of me.

Or what anyone tries to tell you, apparently.

Budget, start up cost, at $4820 for hookah supplies and point of sale equipment.

Line item expenses, please.
With quotes from multiple wholesalers and selling sources.

Watch, I can do what you just did!

For My Leather, Metal, Latex, Pyrex S&M Paraphenalia Business

Item	Purchase Cost + Shipping	Supplier
Steel Rings (Box of 10,000)	250 USD	Big Honest Sam
Basic Metalworking Tools	$3,400 USD	Gloryhole Productions
Webcam Whores Misc	$2,500 USD	Happycam.com

Please give me bitcoin?

[repentance]

dank, you've talked about your strengths.  What are your weaknesses?  You really need to know that in order to be successful because you need other people with different strengths to bridge the gap.

I am utterly unartistic, but my field requires me to put together a lot of visually appealing stuff (I loathe PowerPoint with a passion, but PowerPoint presentations are absolutely essential in my field).  I always make sure there's someone on my team who actually likes doing visual design stuff and who will happily spend hours getting everything visually perfect.  It doesn't matter if they can't write the content - that's my job - but I need their visual design skills to put together an acceptably professional presentation.

I'm also not a team player, despite being an excellent project administrator - so I always ensure that there's someone on my team who's good at the touchy-feely stuff and who cultivates the kind of social dynamic within the group which makes other team members happy.  I recognise the importance of team cohesion even though I prefer doing the majority of my work in the middle of the night in my pyjamas and it's nigh impossible to drag me to a meeting unless there's food involved.

You need to know your weaknesses.  If you really loathe keeping on top of the financials, you're better off paying a book-keeper $50 per week to spend a couple of hours keeping track of them than you are taking on the role yourself but then not actually doing it.  You need to think about when it's wiser to pay someone else to do something because they can do it more efficiently and more effectively.  You also need to think about the necessary but unpleasant tasks you're going to have to do yourself in order to keep costs down.  Cleaning up after close and setting up for the next day before you go home is likely to be one of those things.  Necessary even though you're not going to want to do it at the end of the night - so you need to become very efficient at it.

Are you going to accept credit and debit cards?  Have you looked into what your bank will charge you for processing electronic payments (here, your bank usually provides the POS equipment)?

Sorry Ant.  I want photos of those items, at least three alternative suppliers, background information on the suppliers, terms of trade, delivery costs, lead times and a written report on why you're recommending those particular steel rings and those suppliers.  I want information on durability, warranties, return policies.  What are the specifications for the "steel"?

And fuck the hookahs.  They'll be a small part of the start-up cost.  I need numbers on everything related to the premises, business licensing, permits, insurance, etc.  I need time-lines for obtaining those things.  And I still need information about what documentation the leasing agent requires in order for you to lodge an application to rent the premises.  Have you got hold of the plans for the premises yet.  Checked whether there are restrictions on its use?  

Fuck, I just realised that if this is a shell space, you'll probably have to put in a false ceiling and reline the walls unless you want sound bouncing around driving your customers nuts.

[Monster-Ant]

Sorry Ant.  I want photos of that items, at least three alternative suppliers, background information on the suppliers, terms of trade, delivery costs, lead times and a written report on why you're recommending those particular steel rings and those suppliers.  I want information on durability, warranties, return policies.  What are the specifications for the "steel"?

How much you want to bet (NOT A BET) I could post a word doc with all of that before Dank does anything close to it.

Shit, at this rate, I might as well start up an S&M supply company.

Or a hookah bar. Find out Dank's IP, do some digging, find out what city he's in, open one, call it "DANK HOOKAHS" and then sell it to the Russian mob for a weekend hunting trip in Chernobyl where we hunt flipper-armed midgets with anti-tank weaponry.

[dank]

Only with time will we tell, Ant.

That's nice, my budget sheet is 79 lines though.

Looks like we'll need at least $25,000k to start without shrinking the operation.  I haven't picked specific furniture or decor, yet, so I'm going to budget those at $6500, for now.  With $2000 on audio equipment, this totals up to $13,280 for basically all the equipment required, leaving $6000 for two months rent and $5000k for other, not yet accounted, expenses.

Repentance, my weaknesses are my strengths, they're relative to our perspective.  I've thought both poorly and highly of qualities I have.

I wouldn't mind hiring an accountant.  I will accept credit/debit cards, I think I'll be processing them online with the POS software.

[repentance]

Sorry Ant.  I want photos of that items, at least three alternative suppliers, background information on the suppliers, terms of trade, delivery costs, lead times and a written report on why you're recommending those particular steel rings and those suppliers.  I want information on durability, warranties, return policies.  What are the specifications for the "steel"?

How much you want to bet (NOT A BET) I could post a word doc with all of that before Dank does anything close to it.

Shit, at this rate, I might as well start up an S&M supply company.

Or a hookah bar. Find out Dank's IP, do some digging, find out what city he's in, open one, call it "DANK HOOKAHS" and then sell it to the Russian mob for a weekend hunting trip in Chernobyl where we hunt flipper-armed midgets with anti-tank weaponry.

I'd be surprised if it took you more than an hour or two.  You're used to doing it, just as I am.  You know how and where to find information - which is half the battle.

[repentance]

Only with time will we tell, Ant.

That's nice, my budget sheet is 79 lines though.

Looks like we'll need at least $25,000k to start without shrinking the operation.  I haven't picked specific furniture or decor, yet, so I'm going to budget those at $6500, for now.  With $2000 on audio equipment, this totals up to $13,280 for basically all the equipment required, leaving $6000 for two months rent and $5000k for other, not yet accounted, expenses.

Repentance, my weaknesses are my strengths, they're relative to our perspective.  I've thought both poorly and highly of qualities I have.

I wouldn't mind hiring an accountant.  I will accept credit/debit cards, I think I'll be processing them online with the POS software.

Ring the real estate agent now and find out what the upfront expenses are - the security deposit, rent in advance, and anything else you'd need to pay the moment you signed the lease.  I'm serious.  Ring your local government people and find out what permits and licences you'll need and how much they cost and what insurances you'll be required to carry.  Ring some business insurers and find out the cost of those policies.  That should keep you busy for today.

Remember that you'll need commercial grade furniture and that it's preferable to have it treated for stain-resistance (trust me on this).  Don't even think about domestic grade floor coverings.  Decor, you can probably do on the smell of an oily rag if you're at all creative.

[dank]

Only with time will we tell, Ant.

That's nice, my budget sheet is 79 lines though.

Looks like we'll need at least $25,000k to start without shrinking the operation.  I haven't picked specific furniture or decor, yet, so I'm going to budget those at $6500, for now.  With $2000 on audio equipment, this totals up to $13,280 for basically all the equipment required, leaving $6000 for two months rent and $5000k for other, not yet accounted, expenses.

Repentance, my weaknesses are my strengths, they're relative to our perspective.  I've thought both poorly and highly of qualities I have.

I wouldn't mind hiring an accountant.  I will accept credit/debit cards, I think I'll be processing them online with the POS software.

Ring the real estate agent now and find out what the upfront expenses are - the security deposit, rent in advance, and anything else you'd need to pay the moment you signed the lease.  I'm serious.  Ring your local government people and find out what permits and licences you'll need and how much they cost and what insurances you'll be required to carry.  Ring some business insurers and find out the cost of those policies.  That should keep you busy for today.

Remember that you'll need commercial grade furniture and that it's preferable to have it treated for stain-resistance (trust me on this).  Don't even think about domestic grade floor coverings.  Decor, you can probably do on the smell of an oily rag if you're at all creative.

I would but it's a little late to do that tonight.  I should be talking with the agent tomorrow.

I plan on building a good amount of the furniture myself, at least bench seating, the sage and what not.

[Monster-Ant]

Only with time will we tell, Ant.

I'm half tempted to do it just to show you how things are properly done, Dank.

Then I realized I'd have started opening my own S&M supply business.

[Monster-Ant]

I plan on building a good amount of the furniture myself, at least bench seating, the sage and what not.

Have you EVER built furniture? You realize it has to pass inspection, right? Do you know what goes into making furniture? Do you know what the weight rating is for the fiberboard backing? Do you know how to properly attach coverings? Do you know what is the proper filling to use for furniture?

Seriously, you think you can just build a picnic bench?

[repentance]

I would but it's a little late to do that tonight.  I should be talking with the agent tomorrow.

I plan on building a good amount of the furniture myself, at least bench seating, the sage and what not.

I forgot it's night-time there.  Still, there's a lot of other stuff you can research while you're waiting for business hours.

Check whether there's a standard which furniture used in cafes/bars/restaurants in your jurisdiction must meet - there often is.  Ditto the stage.

When you talk to the real estate agent, find out about the property's electricity supply.  Don't forget to ask about ventilation/air-conditioning - the property may be totally unsuitable for a hookah lounge if it doesn't meet the local requirements for an indoor smoking venue and you don't have the budget to have that kind of stuff installed (you don't want to over-capitalise anyway).

I'm half tempted to do it just to show you how things are properly done, Dank.

Then I realized I'd have started opening my own S&M supply business.

It's a huge market, but it's one in which it's difficult to make yourself unique.

Ant, what would be the rough cost of making the acoustics acceptable for dank's purpose in a 6000 square foot space, taking into account that he's planning on having live music there but you wouldn't want it to sound like a frat-house party all the time?

[Monster-Ant]

It's a huge market, but it's one in which it's difficult to make yourself unique.

Very true. Most of them (from the 15 minutes of research I did) probably operate with only shoestring income. (I actually ,as a joke, started researching the material I'd need to make Plus Plus Plus Sized Dominatrix Torso Sleeves, and when I started to get into it I was suddenly: "Why the HELL am I doing this?")

As a side thing I started looking into faux-tire tread, thinking "Hey, 80's Roadwarrior S&M Gear! That would appeal to a LOT of people!" and then started looking at fake rabbit skin and shit. Then thought "Well, shit, might as hell have at least three style lines. How about... umm... S&S&B&D and... umm... Bronze Age Domination!" and started looking up copper/brass/bronze chain, additional leathers, faux-fur prices in bulk...

Then I realized I'm halfway into compiling a startup expenses list for a fucking company...

What the hell is wrong with me?

Fake Edit: 6"x1/8" fake rabbit skin w/ brown 2" fur fringe sells at $14.95/sqft.

Edit2: Damn you, Repentance, for almost making me do up a business proposal for an online S&M/B&D shop. Curse your silver tongue. BTW: Fake wolf fur would look totally bitching wedded to crotchless spandex spankies to make a barbarian princess outfit. :waaah:

[dank]

I plan on building a good amount of the furniture myself, at least bench seating, the sage and what not.

Have you EVER built furniture? You realize it has to pass inspection, right? Do you know what goes into making furniture? Do you know what the weight rating is for the fiberboard backing? Do you know how to properly attach coverings? Do you know what is the proper filling to use for furniture?

Seriously, you think you can just build a picnic bench?

I've built a deck.  Yeah.

Let's keep this thread on topic, please.

[Monster-Ant]

I plan on building a good amount of the furniture myself, at least bench seating, the sage and what not.

Have you EVER built furniture? You realize it has to pass inspection, right? Do you know what goes into making furniture? Do you know what the weight rating is for the fiberboard backing? Do you know how to properly attach coverings? Do you know what is the proper filling to use for furniture?

Seriously, you think you can just build a picnic bench?

I've built a deck.  Yeah.

Let's keep this thread on topic, please.

A deck? A DECK? That's like first semester wood shop. Building a deck and building furniture are two totally different things.

Seriously, look in pre-made, pre-owned, or just having a contractor build it for you.

[Monster-Ant]

Ant, what would be the rough cost of making the acoustics acceptable for dank's purpose in a 6000 square foot space, taking into account that he's planning on having live music there but you wouldn't want it to sound like a frat-house party all the time?

That depends on a LOT of factors.

Type of acoustic dampening material. Is he going to have separate rooms (If so, how many)? Will he be doing ceiling panels? Will he be doing floor panels? Will he be adding baffling near the bar to ease up on the ambient sound? Is he having special acoustic work done for the stage? Will he have it professionally installed? What are the contractors offering in his area?

I know for the bar when I had acoustic dampening done it ran $24,000 but that was a fairly large open area, the bathrooms, acoustic dampening at the bar, floor and ceiling tiles, the stock room, and the freezer.

Plus I used the Denim Acoustic Fiber for it, because I liked the idea of recycled pants. If I had unlimited cash I'd look into liquid smoke acoustic paneling now.

[heatstroke]

I really don't want to take advice from anyone who doesn't heap praise upon me

I think this is what you meant to say.

[repentance]

It's a huge market, but it's one in which it's difficult to make yourself unique.

Very true. Most of them (from the 15 minutes of research I did) probably operate with only shoestring income. (I actually ,as a joke, started researching the material I'd need to make Plus Plus Plus Sized Dominatrix Torso Sleeves, and when I started to get into it I was suddenly: "Why the HELL am I doing this?")

As a side thing I started looking into faux-tire tread, thinking "Hey, 80's Roadwarrior S&M Gear! That would appeal to a LOT of people!" and then started looking at fake rabbit skin and shit. Then thought "Well, shit, might as hell have at least three style lines. How about... umm... S&S&B&D and... umm... Bronze Age Domination!" and started looking up copper/brass/bronze chain, additional leathers, faux-fur prices in bulk...

Then I realized I'm halfway into compiling a startup expenses list for a fucking company...

What the hell is wrong with me?

Fake Edit: 6"x1/8" fake rabbit skin w/ brown 2" fur fringe sells at $14.95/sqft.

Edit2: Damn you, Repentance, for almost making me do up a business proposal for an online S&M/B&D shop. Curse your silver tongue. BTW: Fake wolf fur would look totally bitching wedded to crotchless spandex spankies to make a barbarian princess outfit. :waaah:

LMAO.  I do it too.  I was all ready to put together a serious proposal for logansryche's theatre last year.  Once you start thinking about how to make something work, it becomes addictive.

I figured you'd probably have some idea about the acoustic stuff, which is why I asked you instead of wasting time researching it myself.  That's something you need to do, dank, develop a network of people who can give you information quickly on things which are outside  your own area of knowledge.

[Rarity]

Some of the negativity in here is really getting out of hand.  Dank has already proven with his graphic design and Banking businesses that he knows the basics of how to get a startup going.  Everyone is just piling on here and trying to point out why it won't work rather than why it can.  You really don't need education or to live as a wage slave to start up a business and be your own boss.  A positive attitude, the right products, and the right information are all you need to succeed.  Dank, you should look into a different business model and industry that handles some of the legwork for you so you can focus on doing what you do best now instead of jumping through all the hoops people will set up to slow you down.

I don't approve of this tobacco business morally and I think Dank's drug abuse will eventually doom it, but there is no reason to try and stomp out his hopes and dreams like this.  

[Monster-Ant]

LMAO.  I do it too.  I was all ready to put together a serious proposal for logansryche's theatre last year.  Once you start thinking about how to make something work, it becomes addictive.

How half my projects end up happening.

I ended up with a pretty steady business for about 4 years because of a stupid drunken bet.