3000-6000 BTC loan - Hookah Lounge - 9/18/12 Update

[dank]

Hendrix's first musical instrument was a harmonica , which he received four years ago. [4] As a teenager, he became interested in rock 'n' roll to inspire. He attended among others concerts from Elvis Presley and Little Richard . At 13, he got from his father, a one-stringed ukulele given that he had found while cleaning a garage.

I don't quite think practicing a harmonica since age 4 is what made Jimi to become the beast he did.  Maybe I'm missing something.

Phinnaeus Gage, thanks for the post, I plan on having a very malleable environment as to appease many types of personalities.

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[Phinnaeus Gage]

Hendrix's first musical instrument was a harmonica , which he received four years ago. [4] As a teenager, he became interested in rock 'n' roll to inspire. He attended among others concerts from Elvis Presley and Little Richard . At 13, he got from his father, a one-stringed ukulele given that he had found while cleaning a garage.

I don't quite think practicing a harmonica since age 4 is what made Jimi to become the beast he did.

Phinnaeus Gage, thanks for the post, I plan on having a very malleable environment as to appease many types of personalities.

Good point! Just like Bach's violin playing didn't contribute to him being an organist. They're musically mutually exclusive. That said, stick with your hookah lounge idea.

~Bruno~

[dank]

Thank you, I will stick with both.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Thank you, I will stick with both.

Fair enough. What do you think about an open mic (mike) night at Dank's? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_mike

[the_thing]

you'll have to keep your 18-year-old dick in your pants, otherwise your place will be closed within a month. It won't be easy for you to not to come on to all those sexy babes frequenting your joint, let alone employed there, and it only takes one to pursue a sexual harassment lawsuit.

Later, bud.

~Bruno~

This forum is a fountain of wisdom.
..and comedy gold.

[dank]

Thank you, I will stick with both.

Fair enough. What do you think about an open mic (mike) night at Dank's? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_mike

That'd be cool, I planned on having live performances on the weekends.  I can sell tomatoes and let my customers choose who's worthy and not, the way of the free market.

I guess we'll get to that when we get to it, though.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I don't limit the variable to 6 hookahs, I can have more than 6 sessions at a time.

The amount of hookas you plan to use are NOT unlimited. You are limited by space available. Even in hooka palaces in Turkey and the Middle East (yes, I've been to them) they don't figure "Unlimited hookas", they figure it by how much SPACE you have. A comfortable booth is roughly 10x10 for you to share with 3 other people, with the hookah in the middle. Now, you may see "See, I can fit SIXTY of them in my palace!" No. You cannot. Number one, you have to abide by firecodes for minimum aisle length, you are offering rooms, there will be a counter, stock room, bathrooms, etc offered.

Take your floorplan, and draw up a layout. I took a look at your graphic arts skill, you have the skill to do this, and make impressive isometric diagrams.

Start with that, Dank.

 If you'd like to make adjustments to the spreadsheet, feel free to make your own copy and share it so we can actually see the math going into it.

In other words, make you a completely working spreadsheet for your business plan for free?

Sorry, that isn't had the free market works. I am under no obligation to provide you with a self-calculating spreadsheet for all the variables just to see the math going into it when I already showed my work right in the thread.

Would you provide me with free artwork just to show me that you can do it?

As it stands, 72 customers/day (9/hour) would bring in $7,452.64/month profit, 80 customers/day (10/hour) $9,375.20/month profit, 84 customers/day (10.5/hour) $11,930.08/month, 96 customers/day (12/hour) $15,132.64/month, 112 customers/day (14/hour) $20,890.08/month.

That's assuming maximum capacity at all times, which rarely happens.

 Of course, this is without taxes, insurance and other expenses yet to be factored in.  Seems to me the margin will be high enough to cover those, though.

Seems like it, doesn't it. Better get your numbers so you know.

Repentance, I appreciate your comment, I really just don't operate by planning out the tasks for the next month.

You will fail dismally at any task in life, including living on your own.

Enjoy working for me.

 I don't make deadlines and I don't write step by step plans.

You will never succeed at a job where you work for other people, and will never graduate from a college.

 I learn what has to be done, and I do it.

They call those people "Homeless"

 I know, it must seem completely foreign to think of a business that is operated in the moment, but it would work just as well, if not better.

They're usually called: "Bankrupt"

 I'll still know everything that has to be done and I'll still do it all, I just won't write out how I'm going to do it.

You will secure no funding from anyone who isn't named Ivan or Hong.

It just seems redundant and unnecessary to me.  I'll keep track of finances, of course, but planning out tasks that way is not for me.

Then you will fail as a small business owner, or just reel month to month on the edge of bankruptcy.

I have yet to see a whole lot of helpful advice from these experienced businessmen.  Perhaps if Monster-Ant didn't have a negative tone to everything he says, I could take it as advice.

You think I'm being negative? Boy, I might as well be blowing sunshine up your baby smooth ass compared to a loan officer or when the employment department or labor board comes a-knocking. Not to mention OSHA. And my God, if you think I'm negative, the IRS agent will make you cry just looking at your phone number.

Or is it negative because I"m treating you like an adult who wishes to undertake an adult task instead of telling you how fabulous you are for having an IDEA and wanting everyone to finance you. Hell, you've stated people should finance your life and dreams.

Here's a hint: Dreams are worth nothing outside of motivation.

BorderBits, how many times do I have to repeat, it was a restaurant, that is still operating.  Thank you for judging me and telling me who I am and what I can do.  I, and you, are capable of being anything and possessing any ability.

Become a Navy SEAL or US Army Ranger by this time tomorrow and demonstrate the ability to eat coal and shit diamonds.

I've had enough of you all's doubt.

Then you'll run out of the bank crying.

 You don't know who I am or anything about me, yet you think you can tell me I can't do something because I want to do it differently.  I will prove you wrong, just as I have been doing to this very day.

Don't say stuff like this if you want to be taken seriously.

Dank, I was going to tell you that after looking at your other ventures, it looked like you have skill, experience, and an eye for graphic design, and might make an excellent graphic designer full time.

But since you can't make deadlines, so much for you being professional.

much better. Way to tell him like it is.

I was wondering why people were being so nice to a kid that is getting so much valuable information and brushing it off with the justification: "i'm special so those rules don't apply to me."
I think it is because he reminds us of what we were like at that age before we got a dose of reality.  I can't speak for anyone else, but I was almost as naive as this kid.  

But, when I was growing up, I didn't have the plethora of information that was on the internet.  So I never had the privilege to get sound advice from people more knowledgeable than me only trying to help me FOR FREE. Back in my day if you were lucky enough to even find someone with the experience these guys have you would have to cough up a pretty penny for any kind of help or information about the trade. This is also assuming they are even willing to sell their advice.

Dank, I don't think you realize how privileged you actually are. Your attitude is going to hold you back. I know all you want to hear is ponies and rainbows because you feel that any negativity hinders your chances at success. But we would feel terrible telling someone who has no clue what hes doing that its a good idea, just to make him feel better. That would be the absolute worst thing anyone could do for you. You really need wake up and smell the coffee.

Optimism is great and it will help you succeed, but you shouldn't just ignore all the warnings just because you want to stay optimistic.

I really think people should stop trying to help this kid because the only way hes actually going to learn a lesson is if he just goes and tries it himself and learns the hard way.  He clearly isn't going to take anyone's advice because he thinks he has the universe all figured out.

Dank, you're still young. You have a lot to learn. If you can't admit that you have a lot to learn then you will never learn.

To end this rant on a good note. You seem to have more than enough motivation, drive, and decisiveness to become successful and I'm pretty sure with a little bit of attitude change, you WILL be very successful.  Nobody wants to do business with someone that has 0 experience and 0 preparation but yet still thinks he knows better than anyone else.  You're just going to have to accept the fact that there are people out there that are more knowledgeable than you when it comes to start-ups.

I think what you really need is complete ego loss. I never thought I would be suggesting this to an 18 year old kid, but you need to take a significant amount of LSD or DMT, so you can lose that ego of yours and finally start to make sense of the concept of "equality." That is the only feasible way I can see you actually changing your attitude and perspective on life and realize how much of a douche bag you sounded like before the trip.

Your ego is the main thing that will hold you back in life. Please trust me. You will know what I mean after you have a ground breaking epiphany.

I know this all sounds condescending, but I used to be just like you.

I hope you're not already too deep into your own mind that you will brush off this advice as just another person of inferior intelligence who has no clue what he's talking about.

If this doesn't get through to you, then you're shit out of luck and you're at the point of no return. NO ONE will be able to help you.

Sorry for posting the whole post, but it's the reply that made me want to share this video for Dank. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etmCR_K33sQ This guy was lucky to get a second chance.

~Bruno~

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Thank you, I will stick with both.

Fair enough. What do you think about an open mic (mike) night at Dank's? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_mike

That'd be cool, I planned on having live performances on the weekends.  I can sell tomatoes and let my customers choose who's worthy and not, the way of the free market.

I guess we'll get to that when we get to it, though.

Fuck the tomatoes! Let them vote via Bitcoin.

[kentrolla]

you're putting way too much effort in trying to help someone who can't be helped.

[repentance]

You're somewhat lucky with this thread, dank, for the same consideration wasn't given to Logan with his The Hub investment request.

That's not really true.  logansryche wanted people to donate $350,000 so that he could re-open an old theatre in a town of 9,000 people.  He hadn't even looked at the building, he planned on showing movies on a home theatre system, the building hadn't been inspected for years, there were modern theatres in nearby towns and his best estimate was that the theatre would make $35,000 per year.  The vision he had was not even remotely viable, whereas dank's could be if it's properly done.

I can sell tomatoes and let my customers choose who's worthy and not, the way of the free market.

What type of tomatoes are you growing?  I just planted Florida Baskets and Romas.  I'm hoping they survive our expected El Nino summer.

If I'd waited a week for an agent to ring me back regarding a commercial property, I'd be pissed off enough to find out who owned the property and contact them directly and make sure I let them know that their property was sitting vacant despite people wanting to lease it.  Mind you, I would probably have gone to the agent's office to get all the information I required regarding the property after the first time they didn't return my call.

You can't sit around and hope people will get back to you in business.  Imagine if you were almost out of stock for your core business and your supplier wasn't returning your calls.

[dank]

I realize this, but I'm not in a huge hurry as I don't have the money to lease the property anyways.  Should get a response tomorrow, if not, I will keep trying.

[smracer]

I realize this, but I'm not in a huge hurry as I don't have the money to lease the property anyways.  Should get a response tomorrow, if not, I will keep trying.

Things have to be done in a certain order.  I have had 4 business leases so far.  In each case you have to have a registered business with the state and business bank account and a DUNS number to even get a lease.  You will have to sign at least a 1 year lease (but most likely a 2-3 year). You will have to put down first and last month's rent, as well as a security deposit.  So if the lease is $3,000 a month you will most likely have to write a check for at least $7500 on the spot before you can start moving in.  Then you have to get your occupancy permit which takes a couple of weeks when the city gets around to it.  You have to have the fire dept come and do an inspection of your emergency exits and fire extinguishers.  All of this costs money.  The City will want money for an alarm permit.  Then you have to get and carry premises liability insurance.  Expect to pay a nice 3 month down payment on that one - in your case most likely around $300 a month with $1200 due as a down payment.  There is also waste disposal.   You will need pest control as well.  You will need a cleaning service.  

All of these things can be done now.  You can call a cleaning service and get a quote.  You can get a quote on a dumpster.  You can get an insurance quote. You can start the business registration process and get a business bank account.  You can then file for your sales tax permit and tax ID number.  

But you will never get a business lease if you don't actually have a registered business.  That takes time.  At least a few months to get your sales and use number as well as your Federal Tax ID number.  I have paid the rush fee before and registered businesses less than a month.  But it costs more.

First rule of business - Double check all of your estimated expenses...then triple them.

[smracer]

You are also going to need a hell of a lot more than 4000BTC to get this off the ground.

You need at least 6 months of operating expenses plus you are going to have a shitload of costs up front.

I wouldn't even think of touching this without 200K in cash sitting in the bank. 

On a side note - If I had 200K sitting in the bank and I wanted to start a business I sure as shit wouldn't start a Hookah lounge.  Why the fuck would you want the hassle of dealing with stupid employees and customers all day?  It is a nightmare.

I would buy a few of those ice/water machines and lease small spaces in a strip mall.  Those things make money like crazy. 

You just lease a few small 1000sqft storefronts next to liquor stores and people walk up and can buy ice/filtered water.

You can hire one guy to run everything for you while you just sit back and count the money.

Dank's Ice

[repentance]

I realize this, but I'm not in a huge hurry as I don't have the money to lease the property anyways.  Should get a response tomorrow, if not, I will keep trying.

I know that you don't have the money right now, but either that property is the deal of a lifetime at $3,000 per month so you need to do everything possible to raise the money before someone else snaps it up or there's one or more problems with the property which make it unattractive to other potential tenants and you need to start looking at other properties.  It wouldn't be a bad idea to look at what other properties of a similar size and in similar locations are renting for, especially those which already have commercial food preparation areas and sufficient toilets installed.  The rent will be more expensive, but you don't have the tens of thousands of dollars which those kinds of build-outs require in your start-up budget.

And I still want to know what type of tomatoes you're growing!

Also, have you thought about funding your venture with credit cards?  From everything I've read on places like FatWallet, they seem obscenely easy to obtain in the US and they have the advantage of making funds available to you immediately.  Right now, you're not attracting funding fast enough for this venture to get off the ground this year so you need to start exploring other funding methods.

Phin, there's are already a number of hookah franchise companies in the US.

Here's what one of them lists as the start-up costs for a hookah lounge. 

http://www.luxchateau.com/investment-and-fees.php

Obviously dank's start-up costs wouldn't include a franchise fee and he wouldn't be paying royalties.

[repentance]

I realize this, but I'm not in a huge hurry as I don't have the money to lease the property anyways.  Should get a response tomorrow, if not, I will keep trying.

Things have to be done in a certain order.  I have had 4 business leases so far.  In each case you have to have a registered business with the state and business bank account and a DUNS number to even get a lease.  You will have to sign at least a 1 year lease (but most likely a 2-3 year). You will have to put down first and last month's rent, as well as a security deposit.  So if the lease is $3,000 a month you will most likely have to write a check for at least $7500 on the spot before you can start moving in.  Then you have to get your occupancy permit which takes a couple of weeks when the city gets around to it.  You have to have the fire dept come and do an inspection of your emergency exits and fire extinguishers.  All of this costs money.  The City will want money for an alarm permit.  Then you have to get and carry premises liability insurance.  Expect to pay a nice 3 month down payment on that one - in your case most likely around $300 a month with $1200 due as a down payment.  There is also waste disposal.   You will need pest control as well.  You will need a cleaning service.  

All of these things can be done now.  You can call a cleaning service and get a quote.  You can get a quote on a dumpster.  You can get an insurance quote. You can start the business registration process and get a business bank account.  You can then file for your sales tax permit and tax ID number.  

But you will never get a business lease if you don't actually have a registered business.  That takes time.  At least a few months to get your sales and use number as well as your Federal Tax ID number.  I have paid the rush fee before and registered businesses less than a month.  But it costs more.

First rule of business - Double check all of your estimated expenses...then triple them.

You also don't want to sign a commercial lease until you know every expense related to fitting out the premises to operate your business.  Finding out that the whole place needs rewiring or new plumbing or that the air-conditioning isn't suitable for your business after you've signed the lease is too late.  That's why you need to research all the regulations and codes related to operating your intended business before you contemplate signing a lease on a particular property - the rent may be the least of your expenses, and nobody's going to let you out of a lease just because you grossly under-estimated your build-out expenses.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I realize this, but I'm not in a huge hurry as I don't have the money to lease the property anyways.  Should get a response tomorrow, if not, I will keep trying.

I know that you don't have the money right now, but either that property is the deal of a lifetime at $3,000 per month so you need to do everything possible to raise the money before someone else snaps it up or there's one or more problems with the property which make it unattractive to other potential tenants and you need to start looking at other properties.  It wouldn't be a bad idea to look at what other properties of a similar size and in similar locations are renting for, especially those which already have commercial food preparation areas and sufficient toilets installed.  The rent will be more expensive, but you don't have the tens of thousands of dollars which those kinds of build-outs require in your start-up budget.

And I still want to know what type of tomatoes you're growing!

Also, have you thought about funding your venture with credit cards?  From everything I've read on places like FatWallet, they seem obscenely easy to obtain in the US and they have the advantage of making funds available to you immediately.  Right now, you're not attracting funding fast enough for this venture to get off the ground this year so you need to start exploring other funding methods.

Phin, there's are already a number of hookah franchise companies in the US.

Here's what one of them lists as the start-up costs for a hookah lounge. 

http://www.luxchateau.com/investment-and-fees.php

Obviously dank's start-up costs wouldn't include a franchise fee and he wouldn't be paying royalties.

The franchise idea was tossed out there for Dank to get his creative juices a flowin' on having his establishment unique is some way for him to be the franchiser. A few weeks ago I dined at some franchise that's known for having spent peanut shells on the floor (its name eludes me). You want people to walk in and say to themselves, or out loud, "What the fuck! I like this place already." even before they hear the words, "Welcome to Dank's."

~Bruno~

[btcANGEL]

Fuck the tomatoes!

If you're serving 96 drunk college students per day, someone will try. If you're lucky, he'll hide the victim in a hookah instead of throwing it at the stage.

[repentance]

A few weeks ago I dined at some franchise that's known for having spent peanut shells on the floor (its name eludes me). You want people to walk in and say to themselves, or out loud, "What the fuck! I like this place already." even before they hear the words, "Welcome to Dank's."

~Bruno~

Lone Star Steakhouse here does the peanut shell thing.

Dank has plenty of creative ideas for his establishment.  What he doesn't have is an actual business plan and until you've got a successful business up and running, developing plans for franchising that business is just a distraction.  There's certainly an abundance of Middle Eastern themed shisha lounges, but that may well be because that's the model which attracts a steady clientèle and is most profitable.  That's why researching your target markets is important.  If he's aiming primarily at college students, he needs to know not just what will attract them, but what will discourage them from using it as a place to hang out while making minimum purchases.  Bums on seats don't make money unless those people are buying something and he's going to need to sell a minimum amount of bowls per day just to break even.

Apparently some states don't allow college IDs to be used for the purchase of tobacco products.  You need to think about your age verification process if your state is one of them.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Here's an idea of which your real money will come from, but first the back story.



When I first moved to Jackson, Tennessee, in 1985, and visited for the first time a bar, I was taken aback by all those who BYOB, paying for the set-ups as they were referred to at the time. They didn't have liquor by the drink back then.

That shared, here's the idea, but really works if the ambiance of Dank's is appealing. Your mixologists serve up fancy mixed drinks, sans the alcohol, at a premium and what the market will bear. The patrons take it from there. (enough said)

And to expand upon the peanut idea, free imported Iranian pistachios, encouraging your guest to toss the spent shells onto the floor.

Here's your chess set:



Here's your nightly entertainment:



Here's your profit:



Anything less is just...

[repentance]

Here's an idea of which your real money will come from, but first the back story.



When I first moved to Jackson, Tennessee, in 1985, and visited for the first time a bar, I was taken aback by all those who BYOB, paying for the set-ups as they were referred to at the time. They didn't have liquor by the drink back then.

That shared, here's the idea, but really works if the ambiance of Dank's is appealing. Your mixologists serve up fancy mixed drinks, sans the alcohol, at a premium and what the market will bear. The patrons take it from there. (enough said)

And to expand upon the peanut idea, free imported Iranian pistachios, encouraging your guest to toss the spent shells onto the floor.

Here's your chess set:



Here's your nightly entertainment:



Here's your profit:



Anything less is just...

The idea's not a bad one, but many states have incredibly strict regulations about the type of food and beverages which can be served in an indoor smoking venue, especially with regard to any food or beverages prepared on the premises.  One of the hookah lounge owners who posts on one of the hookah forums was saying that he can only legally prepare coffee by certain methods and any food he serves has to be pre-prepared elsewhere.  This is why dank needs to find out all of the regulations which will affect the operation of his business - mixing drinks on the premises might not even be an option where he lives.

And while nuts on the floor might be a cute gimmick, it's one more thing which has to be cleaned up at the end of the night - either dank will have to pay someone to do it or he'll have to stay back and do it himself (assuming his local health regulations would even allow it in the first place).

There's actually a couple of ME-themed hookah franchises in the US, but dank's budget doesn't really allow for high end chess and backgammon sets and going too "forty thieves" may well discourage the college crowd who might prefer more of a sports bar type theme with live bands, pool tables, air hockey tables, and a couple of televisions mounted on the wall so they can watch the game while they're chilling.  Creating any sense of intimacy in a 6000 sqft space  would be extremely difficult on a limited budget.  He might be better off going for a more spartan, warehouse type theme.