Staff member dserrano5 promoting scam - should he remain with default trust?

[Amitabh S]

Even I was a bit surprised to see, not only a legendary but a staff member promoting this.

Maybe they need to increase the payouts of staff

[1713981429]

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[1713981429]

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[favdesu]

I think he should stop promoting what is obviously a scam.

Granted it is the responsibility of individual users to do their own due diligence when deciding to do business with someone or deciding to invest in something. However with that being said, when someone credible advertises for someone then a certain level of credibility is given to that business and someone may give less weight to the fact that there are red flags this is a scam.

If dserrano5 wants to remain reputable then he should remove the avatar and stop advertising/promoting an obvious scam. If he does remove the advertisement then he would receive a certain level of additional of respect in my book as he would have essentially admit he made a mistake and quickly rectified the situation.

If he continues to advertise a scam then I do not see the logic that he should be trusted to maintain a trust list that includes only people who are reputable enough that will reasonably include people who send accurate trust ratings. Nor can I understand that it would be reasonable that he would send accurate trust ratings.

If he wants to earn a little bit of BTC by selling his avatar then I am sure he can find a competitive avatar campaign that would pay him to advertise while he can maintain his credibility.

Yes the forum has advertised what turned out to be scams in the past however, to my knowledge, nothing has been advertised that was clearly a scam at the time of advertisement. BFL was showing signs of problems and had a reputation of major delays, however to my knowledge there was no solid evidence available at the time that they were intentionally delaying shipment of their miners. They is has also rejected bids on forum ads from what were clear scams.  

Ignorance is bliss I guess. you'd expect staff members to work for the community and prevent scams not support them.

[XinXan]

Great to read this
I think it's for the wrong reason but it works anyway.

    Legendary: 0.05BTC / week

Thank you in a way, because I'm not doing this for 0.05. When my week ends, I'm back to my dear kitty.

Thats like the guy who paid a loan after 1 year to have his red trust removed, it just doesnt work like that and this guy shouldnt be staff anymore.

[Muhammed Zakir]

Great to read this
I think it's for the wrong reason but it works anyway.

    Legendary: 0.05BTC / week

Thank you in a way, because I'm not doing this for 0.05. When my week ends, I'm back to my dear kitty.

Thats like the guy who paid a loan after 1 year to have his red trust removed, it just doesnt work like that and this guy shouldnt be staff anymore.

Even though he is promoting an obvious scam, I think he is moderating forum well. Theymos most probably remove him if he is abusing his power.

[Xian01]

You represent everything that is wrong with Default Trust given your attitude in regards to this matter - shilling for ANYTHING as a staff member of these forums.

But then again, seeing as how Theymos has greatly profited off these forums, I'm sure the staff sees no moral or ethical issues with shilling and abusing their positions of "power" for self-profit.

So newbies who are highly likely to regard BCT Staff members as reliable indicators of trustworthy services

…should develop a brain of their own. I've already said this.

should basically go fuck themselves

Well, I used the softer term "burned" . Back in the day I was burned in the dozens of coins because I trusted the words of someone else that I considered pretty trustworthy.

because you feel like taking advantage of your position

Because they haven't a brain of their own.

I'm taking advantage of my hard earned legendary position to get 0.1BTC/week in advance with zero posting requirements. Anything wrong with that?

to earn yourself a few dollars?

A few coins.


Edit: worry not, people, payouts have been decreased. Next tuesday night (Europe) I'll revert my avatar. Fame is so short lived…

[Rampion]

I guess Theymos should decide what's the role of staff members in the first place.

If I'm not mistaken this has already been discussed in the past, and it was established that the role of staff is to prevent spam - no further policing whatsoever, and no protecting users from possible scams.

This is what I remember, and if it is like this the trust system is quite flawed indeed - but I really don't see how this should be dserrano ''s fault,

[sdmathis]

I guess Theymos should decide what's the role of staff members in the first place.

If I'm not mistaken this has already been discussed in the past, and it was established that the role of staff is to prevent spam - no further policing whatsoever, and no protecting users from possible scams.

This is what I remember, and if it is like this the trust system is quite flawed indeed - but I really don't see how this should be dserrano ''s fault,

It's his fault for knowingly promoting a scam. It's as simple as that.

[rivoke]

Being staff in local section is being selected by discussion. I'm sure everyone has their own decision to selecting him as staff.
Being staff also carrying burden, they must keep their honor. That's a quite heavy task.
When staff want to promoting something illegal, it means he/she ruin their honor 

[qwk]

[...] one of legendary staff members started promoting obvious ponzi with avatar/personal text [...]

You cannot expect staff to judge whether or not a specific service with a referral scheme is legit or not.
So there's only two possible solutions to the dilemma of staff sometimes accidentally (or willingly) promoting scam:
1. forbid advertising for staff
2. let them do whatever they like
I personally would opt for 1.

[ACCTseller]

[...] one of legendary staff members started promoting obvious ponzi with avatar/personal text [...]

You cannot expect staff to judge whether or not a specific service with a referral scheme is legit or not.
So there's only two possible solutions to the dilemma of staff sometimes accidentally (or willingly) promoting scam:
1. forbid advertising for staff
2. let them do whatever they like
I personally would opt for 1.

I think it is pretty clear that in this case the site that is being advertised is a scam. That is the major difference, sure someone could get duped into advertising what turns out to be a scam, however the evidence is clear.

I think that anyone who advertised such a obvious scam is someone whose word should not be trusted, and is not reputable and the forum staff, and more importantly, the people on level 1 default trust who be trusted and should be reputable.

[qwk]

[...] one of legendary staff members started promoting obvious ponzi with avatar/personal text [...]

You cannot expect staff to judge whether or not a specific service with a referral scheme is legit or not.
So there's only two possible solutions to the dilemma of staff sometimes accidentally (or willingly) promoting scam:
1. forbid advertising for staff
2. let them do whatever they like
I personally would opt for 1.

I think it is pretty clear that in this case the site that is being advertised is a scam. That is the major difference, sure someone could get duped into advertising what turns out to be a scam, however the evidence is clear.

Possibly. But I still don't think the burden of judgement should be on the shoulders of staff.
There may be other cases (and have been in the past) where the situation is not as obvious, and where the advertising by staff might have lured a lot of newbies into believing some scam to be true.
That's why I'd personally discourage staff and legendary members from promoting any business (except for their own, if they have).
Making that a rule for staff or e.g. users on DefaultTrust would be a good idea.

I think that anyone who advertised such a obvious scam is someone whose word should not be trusted, and is not reputable and the forum staff, and more importantly, the people on level 1 default trust who be trusted and should be reputable.

I agree, but I'd prefer a solution for the future over making an example of this singular event.

[ACCTseller]

[...] one of legendary staff members started promoting obvious ponzi with avatar/personal text [...]

You cannot expect staff to judge whether or not a specific service with a referral scheme is legit or not.
So there's only two possible solutions to the dilemma of staff sometimes accidentally (or willingly) promoting scam:
1. forbid advertising for staff
2. let them do whatever they like
I personally would opt for 1.

I think it is pretty clear that in this case the site that is being advertised is a scam. That is the major difference, sure someone could get duped into advertising what turns out to be a scam, however the evidence is clear.

Possibly. But I still don't think the burden of judgement should be on the shoulders of staff.
There may be other cases (and have been in the past) where the situation is not as obvious, and where the advertising by staff might have lured a lot of newbies into believing some scam to be true.
That's why I'd personally discourage staff and legendary members from promoting any business (except for their own, if they have).
Making that a rule for staff or e.g. users on DefaultTrust would be a good idea.

I think it is more clear then most that this is a scam. There are a number of people pointing it out, and generally speaking even many of the people who are wearing the signature/avatar are in agreement it is a scam, however they have no issue with whoring out their signature/avatar

I think that anyone who advertised such a obvious scam is someone whose word should not be trusted, and is not reputable and the forum staff, and more importantly, the people on level 1 default trust who be trusted and should be reputable.

I agree, but I'd prefer a solution for the future over making an example of this singular event.

If he were to remove the advertisement then there would be no issue. I would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he was not aware they were a scam when he agreed to advertise for them. He can simply return any money he received and advertise for someone else.

[XinXan]

[...] one of legendary staff members started promoting obvious ponzi with avatar/personal text [...]

You cannot expect staff to judge whether or not a specific service with a referral scheme is legit or not.
So there's only two possible solutions to the dilemma of staff sometimes accidentally (or willingly) promoting scam:
1. forbid advertising for staff
2. let them do whatever they like
I personally would opt for 1.

So what can we expect from staff then? If you guys cant tell if something its a scam or not and you cant tell if someone is spamming or posting insubstantial posts, what are you guys for? Im just wondering

[Xialla]

If you guys cant tell if something its a scam or not..

this is fine, because it's not role of staff members to witch hunt scammers and mark ponzis. eveybody should use own brain. anyway, point is different, just read previous posts..

[Ruzka]

This is bad that a staff member does not do his due dilligence before applying to advertise a clear as day scam, not only that the guy has been flooded with negatives from trusted default members and this staff member promotes anyway.

He chooses not to give a shit and carry on even after it has kindly been pointed out to him what he is doing, what is left is that he knew before he wore the avatar that it was a scam and didn't care.

This is the guy we have on default and staff, if he sells out so easily he should be removed from default look at the damage he could do if he was offered a few dollars.

[dserrano5]

Back in the day I was burned in the dozens of coins because I trusted the words of someone else that I considered pretty trustworthy.

Back in the day, there was no trust rating system.

Trust, the kind I gave to that "someone else", has existed for millenia. The trust system in this forum is solely related to trust feedback, which is itself oriented towards the marketplace sections. Both trusts shouldn't be mixed up.

[dserrano5]

Well, I used the softer term "burned" . Back in the day I was burned in the dozens of coins because I trusted the words of someone else that I considered pretty trustworthy.

So because you got fucked over you believe others should be too? wow, just, wow.

It's an interesting mental process, you followed there. I haven't a clue where you extracted that "revenge" bit from. I trusted the words of thay guy, "well if he says it, then it must be true" and months later I got what I deserved after following such a flawed logic. We all agree it's a flawed logic, right? That's ok, shit happens, I learned my lesson, end of the story. This is not a personal crusade to obtain some ego out of the losses of others. It's just how life works. Those without an own judgement will be parted of their money in one way or another.

They may be unsure what to believe but I can guarantee you this, because you are a staff member there *will* be users who see you are supporting this scam and will think it must be ok to have the backing of such an esteemed member of the community.

Attempting to dismiss such concerns on the basis that you want to claim they "haven't a brain of their own" is to completely ignore the realities of the responsibility you have here as a person in a position of power.

While I keep strongly disagreeing with that, now at least you've made me think.

Being 'legendary' isn't the problem, being 'staff' is.

Being staff means that I've been entrusted to keep a specific part of this forum from derailing. Staff aren't counsellors.

[Xian01]

Being staff means that I've been entrusted to keep a specific part of this forum from derailing. Staff aren't counsellors.

If could be argued your prominent shilling is, in itself, derailing.

[dserrano5]

If could be argued your prominent shilling is, in itself, derailing.

The burden is on you to prove that accusation. Best of luck…

[oblivi]

Is the proof of cloudthink.io being a scam strong enough to accuse dserrano like this?
Also, if dadice turned out to be a scam (which it isn't, but just giving an example) and im promoting it with my signature and avatar, I would've been still be promoting it until I realized because im not checking every single thread daily.. it could have been 1 month+ more until I see it.. so if someone makes a thread accusing X campaign of a scam, I wouldn't know, so during that time one wouldn't be liable for it, because you think you are promoting something legit. The difference is tho, dserrano has already seen that thread with the supposed proof, but he seems to genuinely think what he is promoting isn't a scam..