OPEN LETTER to Donald, Patrick & Amir RE: Bitcoinica

[MPOE-PR]

Seriously? One name that's something in bitcoin, say it. Who's there?

Give out free soup in London these days, get 3k people lined up all the way to the next intersection.

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[lonelyminer (Peter Šurda)]

Seriously? One name that's something in bitcoin, say it. Who's there?

Even if you disregard Nefario (GLBSE) and Intersango (libbitcoin), there's Tony Gallippi from BitPay, the guy from Butterfly Labs, Stefan Thomas (bitcoin-js), Pieter Wuille (core dev team), Jan Moller (BitcoinSpinner), Jim Burton (MultiBit), Vladimir (Bitcoin Magazine), Juraj Bednar (he's been promoting Bitcoin in Slovakia), the guys from Bitcoin Austria, and tons of people I didn't have time to meet or whose names I forgot.

[Nefario]

Seriously? One name that's something in bitcoin, say it. Who's there?

Even if you disregard Nefario (GLBSE) and Intersango (libbitcoin), there's Tony Gallippi from BitPay, the guy from Butterfly Labs, Stefan Thomas (bitcoin-js), Pieter Wuille (core dev team), Jan Moller (BitcoinSpinner), Jim Burton (MultiBit), Vladimir (Bitcoin Magazine), Juraj Bednar (he's been promoting Bitcoin in Slovakia), the guys from Bitcoin Austria, and tons of people I didn't have time to meet or whose names I forgot.

I've found the best method to keep track is to get their business card.

[lonelyminer (Peter Šurda)]

I've found the best method to keep track is to get their business card.

I tend to lose business cards. So now I opted for taking pictures of business cards on my phone

[Nefario]

I've found the best method to keep track is to get their business card.

I tend to lose business cards. So now I opted for taking pictures of business cards on my phone

For a while I was trying to do the v-card bluetooth thing, but it never works.

[jgarzik]

Seriously? One name that's something in bitcoin, say it. Who's there?

Even if you disregard Nefario (GLBSE) and Intersango (libbitcoin), there's Tony Gallippi from BitPay, the guy from Butterfly Labs, Stefan Thomas (bitcoin-js), Pieter Wuille (core dev team), Jan Moller (BitcoinSpinner), Jim Burton (MultiBit), Vladimir (Bitcoin Magazine), Juraj Bednar (he's been promoting Bitcoin in Slovakia), the guys from Bitcoin Austria, and tons of people I didn't have time to meet or whose names I forgot.

Of the core dev team there's myself and Pieter (sipa), and I think Nils (tcatm) is coming too.

[Transisto]

Seriously? One name that's something in bitcoin, say it. Who's there?

Even if you disregard Nefario (GLBSE) and Intersango (libbitcoin), there's Tony Gallippi from BitPay, the guy from Butterfly Labs, Stefan Thomas (bitcoin-js), Pieter Wuille (core dev team), Jan Moller (BitcoinSpinner), Jim Burton (MultiBit), Vladimir (Bitcoin Magazine), Juraj Bednar (he's been promoting Bitcoin in Slovakia), the guys from Bitcoin Austria, and tons of people I didn't have time to meet or whose names I forgot.

Of the core dev team there's myself and Pieter (sipa), and I think Nils (tcatm) is coming too.

What ? are you seriously responding to MPOE-PR saying there wont be anybody at the conference ?

Hint : IT WAS A JOKE !

[thezerg]

I am kind of finding this fiasco hard to believe.  Although, I have only had a few conversations with Amir over the internet, he has been really nice and patient with me during the previous process.  I have never spoken to Prince Patrick, though.

What would be the downfall of signing this document from their POV?  The sooner this shit gets done, the sooner the community can move forward.  Unless I am missing something, I don't even know why these guys would want to be in public around other bitcoin people while all this shit is still up in the air.  It is fucking embarrassing and starting to get just a tad bit ridiculous.  I would have a seriously hard time looking people in the eye when speaking and meandering around the conference.

Please, just sign this thing and let's turn the page.

IANAL but I'm guessing that the only document they'd sign is something along the lines of "I do not acknowledge a successful transfer of control of Bitcoinica to myself, so I have no authority to release it into liquidation.  But I will state that I will not contest any liquidation process that does occur"...

In other words, by signing that document as written it looks to me like they would tacitly acknowledge responsibility for Bitcoinica at the time when the hacks occurred...

[repentance]

IANAL but I'm guessing that the only document they'd sign is something along the lines of "I do not acknowledge a successful transfer of control of Bitcoinica to myself, so I have no authority to release it into liquidation.  But I will state that I will not contest any liquidation process that does occur"...

In other words, by signing that document as written it looks to me like they would tacitly acknowledge responsibility for Bitcoinica at the time when the hacks occurred...

The document is not requiring them to sign on behalf of Bitcoinica Consultancy Ltd (the general partner of Bitcoinica LP) but as individuals.  As individuals, they have a combined interest of 25% in Bitcoinica LP (which they were given in exchange for Wendon being issued shares in Intersango).  

Whether or not they try to stall the liquidation is not going to affect whether they are found personally liable for the failure of Bitcoinica and/or whether they are sued as Bitcoinica Consultancy Ltd and individually in other actions which are either in progress or anticipated.  It will, however, make the liquidation a more expensive process and result in smaller returns to users.

I think everyone involved with Bitcoinica made some appalling decisions, including Tihan, but the immediate focus needs to remain on the most efficient way of returning the funds on hand to Bitcoinica users.  The bitch-fight about who should have done what and when is for another venue.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I've found the best method to keep track is to get their business card.

I tend to lose business cards. So now I opted for taking pictures of business cards on my phone

For a while I was trying to do the v-card bluetooth thing, but it never works.

Thanks for keeping us up to date on the London conference. Too bad it's overshadowed by recent events. Would somebody be so kind as to PM me the thread dedicated to the conference?

Also, it looks like my questions and concerns addressed on this thread were kindly responded to. Thanks, all, who've reply. And thanks again, Tihan.

~Bruno~

[lonelyminer (Peter Šurda)]

IANAL but I'm guessing that the only document they'd sign is something along the lines of "I do not acknowledge a successful transfer of control of Bitcoinica to myself, so I have no authority to release it into liquidation.  But I will state that I will not contest any liquidation process that does occur"...

This is what I asked Donald. He declined.

[labestiol]

IANAL but I'm guessing that the only document they'd sign is something along the lines of "I do not acknowledge a successful transfer of control of Bitcoinica to myself, so I have no authority to release it into liquidation.  But I will state that I will not contest any liquidation process that does occur"...

This is what I asked Donald. He declined.

Could you ask them what is their plan to help creditors get their money back ?
It looks like their strategy is to bury their head in the sand, and hope for the best...

[lonelyminer (Peter Šurda)]

Could you ask them what is their plan to help creditors get their money back ?
It looks like their strategy is to bury their head in the sand, and hope for the best...

They probably won't do anything unless it goes to court.

[proudhon]

Could you ask them what is their plan to help creditors get their money back ?
It looks like their strategy is to bury their head in the sand, and hope for the best...

They probably won't do anything unless it goes to court.

Because maybe that way they'll get lucky and get to keep everyone else's money.  I wish you all the best in perpetrating one of the biggest thefts in bitcoin history.  Good luck!   

[Transisto]

To me the biggest problem (among others) was their poor communication and later complete blackout.  Not solving the problem is one awful thing but refusing to communicate with customers is similar to running away with the money,,, That they are still hanging around bitcoiners is mind boggling.

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

Donald, Amir, and Patrick need to sign this ASAP.


Once they do, it gives Tihan legal right to take action and get things moving forward.

There are still funds the accounts, and I believe much of the legal work is being done pro bono, or paid for personally by a few parties involved.  

Oh, I've met Tihan along with Gavin and many others here many times. He lives in Seattle and has deep roots within his community.

-Charlie

[ninjarobot]

+1

Donald, Amir, Patrick, Please don't bankroll your internal feud with the captive funds of Bitcoinica customers.

[proudhon]

+1

Donald, Amir, Patrick, Please don't bankroll your internal feud with the captive funds of Bitcoinica customers.

In the meantime, let's support them at the conference!  Yay!  Maybe next year pirate can organize the bitcoin conference, or maybe both parties should.  After all, what these guys have in common is that they operated the most successful bitcoin business model to date (the run-off-with-the-money model).

[repentance]

so they did sign the thing or not ?

They almost certainly won't.  Fortunately, Tihan is prepared to seek a High Court order to put Bitcoinica LP into liquidation which means that general creditors won't have to.  It will slow the process down, but it won't stop it and liquidators tend to be more aggressive towards non-cooperating principals than they are towards those who actively assist them.

[greyhawk]

You should probably fly to London and place it in their hands in front of an audience.

So has anyone done this yet or what?