Bitcoin Forum
November 24, 2017, 11:54:37 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 [3]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Legal Advice / Answering Legal Questions  (Read 3972 times)
Dabs
Staff
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1876



View Profile
October 22, 2012, 07:47:31 AM
 #41

Hi again,

Recently, the world may have noticed the Philippines again with its new Cybercrime law, and online libel. Have you looked into it, and what are your opinions? Almost everyone is very vocal about it, the penalty for online libel is very much higher than if you had mentioned it in print or traditional media (radio, TV.)

Of course, that's not stopping anonymous libel. (so easy to make a blog and it goes viral, and you stay anonymous, just don't be stupid.)

Escrow Service (Services) - GPG ID: 32AD7565, OTC ID: Dabs
All messages concerning escrow or with bitcoin addresses are GPG signed. Please verify.
CompTIA A+, Microsoft Certified Professional, MCSA: Windows 10; Windows Server 2012, MCSE: Cloud Platform and Infrastructure; Productivity; Messaging
1511524477
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511524477

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511524477
Reply with quote  #2

1511524477
Report to moderator
1511524477
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511524477

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511524477
Reply with quote  #2

1511524477
Report to moderator
1511524477
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511524477

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511524477
Reply with quote  #2

1511524477
Report to moderator
Join ICO Now A blockchain platform for effective freelancing
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
Nolo
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 686


Whoa, there are a lot of cats in this wall.


View Profile
October 22, 2012, 07:37:59 PM
 #42

Hi again,

Recently, the world may have noticed the Philippines again with its new Cybercrime law, and online libel. Have you looked into it, and what are your opinions? Almost everyone is very vocal about it, the penalty for online libel is very much higher than if you had mentioned it in print or traditional media (radio, TV.)

Of course, that's not stopping anonymous libel. (so easy to make a blog and it goes viral, and you stay anonymous, just don't be stupid.)

I obviously know very legal about the legal system in the Philippines and even less about the new Cybercrime law, so I decided to look it up.  Basically, it looks like a disaster.  Vast overreaching by the government.  It is almost blatantly obvious that it's real goal is to stifle speech, and not protect those that have been injured by false statements. 

I would hope that any attempt to pass something similar here in the U.S. would met with harsh criticism, and a Constitutional challenge. 

Charlie Kelly: I'm pleading the 5th.  The Attorney: I would advise you do that.  Charlie Kelly: I'll take that advice under cooperation, alright? Now, let's say you and I go toe-to-toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor?  The Attorney: You know, I don't think I'm going to do anything close to that and I can clearly see you know nothing about the law.
19GpqFsNGP8jS941YYZZjmCSrHwvX3QjiC
iambaboon
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 116


bitcoin afficionado


View Profile
February 19, 2013, 02:14:20 AM
 #43

Nolo, still here ?
I'm familiar with two cases:
CryptoXChange (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=126724.0 )  - basically stopped services and severed communication - owners/company are Australian
bASIC ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=143496.0;topicseen ) - ASIC mining device - project failed, pre-order money taken and not returned, communication  stopped In this case, BTCFPGA/Tom is American.

They're similar with the Trendon Shavers case, not a ponzi scheme, but in that a larger group of people are affected, and each is owed a smaller sum (probably not worth hiring a lawyer for). Together the damages are quite large, but people inflicted are from all over the globe, didn't know each other before and have a hard time putting a fight together.

Maybe we can build a 'how-to' for such cases, they seem to pop-up from time to time in the BTC industry, which is still pretty much not regulated.

Basically, from your experience, what should the people do in such a case ? What I'm thinking of ?
1. Which kind of actions are worth taking into consideration ? I'm thinking:
a) laywer/case
b) direct contact (parents ? e. g. Trendon family contact- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=109126.80 )
c) report to police
d) report to a regulatory institution (Money Laundering, Fair Trade, Finance  or something like this)
e) report to secret service
f) debt recovery agency (legal ways) - commission based

2. Which from 1. has the most chance to get your money back ?  Or what would be a top 3/5 ?

3. What would be the best first step / second step /third ?

Thanks,
Baboon

"Emergencies" have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded. (F. Hayek)
Nolo
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 686


Whoa, there are a lot of cats in this wall.


View Profile
February 19, 2013, 04:14:50 AM
 #44

Nolo, still here ?
I'm familiar with two cases:
CryptoXChange (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=126724.0 )  - basically stopped services and severed communication - owners/company are Australian
bASIC ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=143496.0;topicseen ) - ASIC mining device - project failed, pre-order money taken and not returned, communication  stopped In this case, BTCFPGA/Tom is American.

They're similar with the Trendon Shavers case, not a ponzi scheme, but in that a larger group of people are affected, and each is owed a smaller sum (probably not worth hiring a lawyer for). Together the damages are quite large, but people inflicted are from all over the globe, didn't know each other before and have a hard time putting a fight together.

Maybe we can build a 'how-to' for such cases, they seem to pop-up from time to time in the BTC industry, which is still pretty much not regulated.

Basically, from your experience, what should the people do in such a case ? What I'm thinking of ?
1. Which kind of actions are worth taking into consideration ? I'm thinking:
a) laywer/case
b) direct contact (parents ? e. g. Trendon family contact- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=109126.80 )
c) report to police
d) report to a regulatory institution (Money Laundering, Fair Trade, Finance  or something like this)
e) report to secret service
f) debt recovery agency (legal ways) - commission based

2. Which from 1. has the most chance to get your money back ?  Or what would be a top 3/5 ?

3. What would be the best first step / second step /third ?

Thanks,
Baboon


Good question.  I'll mostly address the bASIC issue, since I know the most about that issue, and the principal place of business is in the U.S.  WARNING: What I am describing below is a 30,000 feet overview of the process, and what most commonly happens. Do NOT assume that everything that has to be done is listed below. Seek counsel in your own state. 

First, with any type of lawsuit you have a statute of limitations you have to be aware of.  With bASIC you are primarily dealing with a breach of contract case.  Sure there are some possible tortious fraudulent activity out there, but most judges don't like when you try to confuse a breach of contract case with torts.  So let's assume we're suing under a breach of contract theory.  Each state is different, so you have to check with your own, but the majority of jurisdictions is 6 years.  So no hurry here. 

So now we want to file a lawsuit.  Where do we do it?  Most commonly if you were under $25,000 in pre-orders, your looking at small claims court or what is commonly referred to as "General Sessions" by many states.  (It is called something different in many states though.)  Some states limit you to $5,000, some states limit you to $15,000.  You just have to check with your state, and for that matter each county in a particular state might have a different limit.  To file the suit all you have to do is pay the court costs (typically around $150) and file your "complaint".  There are countless examples of complaints on the internet, but they typically do not have to be very detailed to be sufficient.  You will have to serve him though.  You'll have to pay someone in NY to do that for you. 

Do you need an attorney?  It's up to you, but most of you are probably intelligent enough to meet the basic filing requirements to get into court yourself.  Tom almost certainly isn't going to show up to defend his actions.  You'll get a default judgment against him.  Then you have to take that default judgment to NY and execute it there.  I would sue him personally and in the names of bitcoinasic.com and btcfpga.com.  Research needs to be done to see if those companies were ever incorporated.  But either way, if you sue him personally, and he doesn't defend, you'll get a personal judgment against him.  Take it to NY and have it executed.  You can file it with NY banks, and they will freeze his funds, and send them to you in the amount of the judgment.  Or you can have the sheriff actually show up at his house and start taking his stuff.  As far as executing it, no you don't personally have to go to NY to try to collect.  There are companies you can hire in NY to actually do that for you.  You just have to file the judgment with the NY courts. (They have to comply under the Full Faith & Credit Clause of the Constitution).

And for anyone wondering about suing Tom in federal court, you can't do it.  It would have to be in state court.  The only way to sue him in federal court, would be if he owed you over $75,000 in refunds and you were from a different state than NY. 

Don't call the police, they don't care.  This is a civil matter.
Don't harass his family.  They didn't screw you over, and worst case, you could get in trouble doing that.
Secret Service doesn't care. 
Debt collection will take any case for the right price, but I don't see them getting anywhere in this case.  If Tom can ignore all of you, he can ignore their phone calls and letters just as easily.
The only possible people I would report him to would be the US Attorney's Office for NY and the NY Attorney General's Office.  They might care enough to do something.  But even if they did that will NOT help you get your money back.  That will only cause them to prosecute him based on some type of criminal activity.  If they win you still get nothing.

(Like I said, I typed this out in 5 minutes.  I'm sure I missed something.  Don't rely on it.  It's just a general overview of what I would do.)


Charlie Kelly: I'm pleading the 5th.  The Attorney: I would advise you do that.  Charlie Kelly: I'll take that advice under cooperation, alright? Now, let's say you and I go toe-to-toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor?  The Attorney: You know, I don't think I'm going to do anything close to that and I can clearly see you know nothing about the law.
19GpqFsNGP8jS941YYZZjmCSrHwvX3QjiC
bluedye
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56


View Profile
February 20, 2013, 02:49:43 PM
 #45

Anyone know of anyone around here who is an expert in similar topics as the OP but is familiar with EU law?
nickkilla
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 18


View Profile
March 19, 2013, 10:08:17 PM
 #46

I'm an American attorney (like NOLO) who is quite knowledgeable on Securities regulations and understand the cryptocurrencies. Knew to this site but been watching BTC and other since the inception. Also licensed in Ireland, so understand EU directives and policies. I can try to answer EU questions to the best of my knowledge or research them if needed and provide a general overview  (if needed) of US ones to supplement NOLO (who has been spot on for 5 min summaries so far). I don't want to overstep, so I'll let NOLO keep up on the US aspect unless i need to chime in with something additional.
Pages: « 1 2 [3]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!