Mtgox sux - chat logs pasted

[intel-core-i7]

Hi,

mtgox allowed me to fund my account ( I thoughtfully funded only 1 btc to test how things go)

but when I try to withdraw - they tell me - "You must verify - post a scan of your ID here..."

I was told that my account was flagged for verification , cause my ip is having more than one user.... This is nuts - how many ISP-s group users under one IP... and it is even more so with mobile users...


So now without sending them my ID scanned I cant withdraw this measily 10-11 bucks (1 btc...)

Dont use mtgox if yoou dont want to give them your ID. Or you can use a fake photoshopped ID - I dont know if that would work...

Here is the chat log:

Danny
Hi there. How can I help today?
Danny has joined the room
User
hi, this is User - the user who by mistake began the AML procedure to test it.
User
Then I am stuck and cannot withdraw my 1 btc .
User
Although without entering the AML I could withdraw before...
User
so pleae find a way out of this situation - or should I seek assistance from the mtgox owners ?
User
or post my sotry in the bitcointalk forum ?
Danny
Let me check the details
Danny
Please let me know if you have any existing ticket
User
Ticket #37524: new iban bank account validation ? How long will it take?
Danny
well unfortunately we will not be able to cancel the AML validation
Danny
The account has to be validated to proceed further
User
but I wont enter any details
User
I dont want to
User
I just clicked this button by mistake
User
can I close the account ? And withdraw the 1 btc prior to that ?
Danny
Well there is no buttons to initiate the verification process
Danny
It was flagged since your IP address is using more than one account
Danny
You can just provide the documents
Danny
These documents are only used for verification and nothing else
User
are u kiding me ?
User
since when is one IP = one person ?
User
my network is setup in such a way that many users use the same ip
User
there are networks in which 1 ip takes care for 1 million users!
Danny
We allow only one account per user
Danny
The system might have trigged the verification process since there are multiple users
Danny
You can provide the documents and we can lift the withdrawal limit
User
its not a limit
User
its a ban to witdrwa
User
w
User
even 10 usd ( roughly this 1 bt)
User
c
User
your security system is hugely inadequate
User
any willing user can setup several diff ips and users ...
User
so if I am a completely honest user but I dont trust you - I am fucked right ?
User
cause you are technologically stupid
User
with these bans
User
I dont know - I will post these chats to the community and we'll see if I am right - what the others think
User
I am sure there are other better services than mtgox
Danny
Well we are already working with the systems to resolve this issue
User
appreciated
Danny
But it might take more time and accounts that are already flagged amy not be included
Danny
* may
Danny
So we still might need to verify your account
User
no way I can give some unknown entity my personal ID
Danny
These documents will be uploaded in the systems and used only for verification
User
are u aware that many ISP-s use the same IP for many users ?
Danny
Unfortunately we will not be able to help without the documents
User
and I am sure you have users like me all the time ...
User
the bitcointalk.org forum users thank you for this chat.
Danny
We apologise for what has happened. But we need to verify the account

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[davout]

See : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=105638.0

Don't hope too much from posting on the forums, if MT shows up he'll probably try to find some way to sling some mud in your face without bothering to make anything right or answer legitimate questions and concerns.

Oh, and don't really expect them to make it right for you when they update their automated procedures because data migration is, you know, "not practical" :

[...] when creating the new system is was not practical to manually go through all those emails and transfer the data to the secure storage.

[intel-core-i7]

funny - I have just found your thread and opened this one to get the link to post to yours...

Done.

[intel-core-i7]

in your case you can at least try to send ID again or sth...

In my case  - I dont want to waste/risk time and my privacy for 10 bucks...

Gonna forget the 1 btc and use a p2p method. I found some reputable guys around here that would trade with me...

[intel-core-i7]

if the 1 btc becomes 1000 usd one day - I will verify then or use a fake photo id...

[novusordo]

I'm on the same boat. I've got 2 fucking BTC stuck in MtGox, because my VPN had more than one person using the site. MtGox flat-out refused to give me my money back.

[davout]

[URSAY]

GOXXXED.

Heard of it???

Do you read these forums?   

[Ghostofkobra]

My discussion with mtGoxx support is approximately the same.

When i saw that the account was empty i checked the withdraws and noted the time of the withdrawal.

Asked mtGoxx for information about logins (because i knew i didnt log in at the time of the withdraw).

Got a list with login's (no IP's) and the list showed that no user was logged on at the time of the withdrawal.

Asked mtGoxx how this could happen and for IP's of the logins.

And all of a sudden i start to get the same answer on every question.
- We only talk to the police.
- Upload your scanned ID and the police report.

If someone "lost" 380 of my bitcoins and refuse to tell me how it happened i sure as hell wont give them my ID.

They claim they cant reimburse me coz i it might attract scammers, and they cant be sure i didnt transfer them out.

LOOK AT YOUR OWN LOGS YOU SENT ME.

I WAS NOT LOGGED ON. and noone else was logged on either....

Sorry for the caps, still get irritated about this.
I think i will scan the police report on monday when i get back to work.

[Domrada]

Why am I not surprised? 

Don't use gox.

[Ghostofkobra]

Well i was naive and thought the largest exchange could be trusted.

I guess i was wrong.

[Ilikeham]

You think they make their money off trading fees or something?

Hell no, far easier to just take it from the suckers that deposit there.

[ArticMine]

...

It should also be noted that we are actually required to require AML data from all customers, but allow use of the service anyway as long as we don't see anything that could be suspicious (in case of fraud we end paying if we don't have any aml data). "Suspicious" is defined as anything that has been known to be done by hackers. This includes accessing multiple accounts, using proxies, etc...

...

This says it best. If you wish to use MtGox get verified and provide the AML/KYC information. Otherwise there may be problems. Personally I went through the verification process first before depositing any funds there, and have had no problems.

I posted this is another thread but it is just as applicable here.

[justusranvier]

Bitcoin companies that are large enough to end up in the crosshairs of regulators need to comply with all the rules which make Bitcoin necessary in the first place or else risk being shut down.

It's a temporary problem that will go away when most people get their bitcoins via trade instead of buying them on an exchange and spend them instead of selling them for other currencies.

[Herodes]

I'm not affiliated with mtGox, but let's look realistically at the situation:

I haven't read the mtGox fine print, but I guess they've covered case like this there.

Being the largest exchange, mtGox is probably being hit with frauds left and right, and
to attempt to combat this, they've added some countermeasures. For countermeasures
to work, they must be applied strictly, so if you have 1K BTC or 1 BTC doesn't really
matter. If it's a company policy that once a certain event is triggered that required you
to sumbit ID papers, then you must do so if you want to be a user with the services
of that company.

Not sure what happens if you never provide those ID papers, perhaps mtGox just keeps
the coins indefinately, I don't know.

But if we look realistically at the situation, mtGox is a big exchange, and they do basically
what they want, and as a user, you need to comply, if you won't or do not want to, then
you should not do business with them.

There are a few methods of watermarking ID-documents you send in to such an exchange,
so in the event the docs are ever lost, you would know who to blame.

For online financial services these days, it's pretty common to require ID papers.

The process needs to be done once, and then you're verified, and don't need to think about
it anymore. It could also be possible to black out certain sensitive details from the passport
scan, to avoid possible identity theft in the future.

So all in all, this is how many financial services online roll these days.

In the end, we can bitch and moan all we want on this forum, but that isn't going to help,
as mtGox won't change their ways in this matter.

So either you scan your ID (passport or other ID document they accept), and submit it,
or you don't, and then I don't know what happens to the BTC. Perhaps Gox keeps it ?

I don't know, perhaps you should ask them for a clarification. We could say that 1 BTC is
a very small amount, so there should be no problem, what about 2 BTC, 5 BTC, 10 BTC ?

Somewhere the limit needs to be set, also at this point we do not know if you're a legitimate
user holding only one mtGox account as pr. their user conditions, or if you tried to make more
accounts.

Also from what I could see from the chat log, the problem was that your IP was acessing several
accounts, perhaps it would clarify the situation if you could tell some details about how this come
to be. There could be logical explanations for this.

But in the end, it almost never helps to complain about things like this on the forum.

[URSAY]

I used to use mtgox.  They got hacked and my info went into the wild.  mtgox responded by asking me for even MORE personal info before I would be allowed to use my account again.  I am unaware of other sites that require more of their users info after their account has been leaked.

[AndrewBUD]

I used to use mtgox.  They got hacked and my info went into the wild.  mtgox responded by asking me for even MORE personal info before I would be allowed to use my account again.  I am unaware of other sites that require more of their users info after their account has been leaked.

That is pretty serious.. I would be very upset if my info got released

[Herodes]

I used to use mtgox.  They got hacked and my info went into the wild.  mtgox responded by asking me for even MORE personal info before I would be allowed to use my account again.  I am unaware of other sites that require more of their users info after their account has been leaked.

That is pretty serious.. I would be very upset if my info got released

you're referring to the hack when the e-mail and hashed password was released?

[URSAY]

I used to use mtgox.  They got hacked and my info went into the wild.  mtgox responded by asking me for even MORE personal info before I would be allowed to use my account again.  I am unaware of other sites that require more of their users info after their account has been leaked.

That is pretty serious.. I would be very upset if my info got released

you're referring to the hack when the e-mail and hashed password was released?

Yes.  Can anyone name a company that asks for more of your personal info in response to being hacked and already leaking some of your info?  I just don't understand punishing the existing users when they had already had their info leaked. 

It's not like I even have anything against MagicalTux.  Quite the opposite.  I just somewhat feel baffled by their PR and customer relations at times.  It's frustrating feeling like part of the backbone of the Bitcoin structure itself is failing many of it's users.

GOXXXED.   

[Herodes]

I used to use mtgox.  They got hacked and my info went into the wild.  mtgox responded by asking me for even MORE personal info before I would be allowed to use my account again.  I am unaware of other sites that require more of their users info after their account has been leaked.

That is pretty serious.. I would be very upset if my info got released

you're referring to the hack when the e-mail and hashed password was released?

Yes.  Can anyone name a company that asks for more of your personal info in response to being hacked and already leaking some of your info?  I just don't understand punishing the existing users when they had already had their info leaked. 

It's not like I even have anything against MagicalTux.  Quite the opposite.  I just somewhat feel baffled by their PR and customer relations at times.  It's frustrating feeling like part of the backbone of the Bitcoin structure itself is failing many of it's users.

GOXXXED.   

In all fairness it seems their PR has improved a little. I see they make statements pretty quickly now, every time something goes titts up. At that hack you refer to, I guess they tried to ensure that nobody got access to an account they did not own, after the hack. Anybody could perhaps crack a password, but not everybody could produce a valid ID in relation to that account.

[jgarzik]

Bitcoin companies that are large enough to end up in the crosshairs of regulators need to comply with all the rules which make Bitcoin necessary in the first place or else risk being shut down.

Indeed.

It's a temporary problem that will go away when most people get their bitcoins via trade instead of buying them on an exchange and spend them instead of selling them for other currencies.

Yep, do something productive and get paid in bitcoins.

That is how the bitcoin economy is built.

[FLHippy]

Yes.  Can anyone name a company that asks for more of your personal info in response to being hacked and already leaking some of your info?

All of them? Bank of America certainly would do this.

I would actually expect them to. I would expect bank of america to ask me to visit a local branch, bring at least two forms of ID and give a thumbprint before releasing my funds to someone who could be impersonating me using the leaked information.

I'm totally not sticking up for MTGox. I use CampBX.

[intel-core-i7]

"So all in all, this is how many financial services online roll these days."

Probably they have no choice and are obliged by governments...

I am mad that I was not explicitly told that this might happen...  mad that they accepted the funds comming in - even if I was flagged... but when you try to withdraw  - no sir!

This is what makes me say their rules suck - cause they let you fund but not withdraw - its a double standard ...


Anyways - I found that for europe - bitstamp is way better:

Here is a paste from support emails with them:

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Bitstamp support via gmail.com
12:46 AM (11 hours ago)

Hello,

To us, it doesn’t matter which name or address is used when withdraw is being processed, however it is possible that your bank will not credit your account and they would contact us for checking and ask for real information. In that case real name and address would need to be provided to them in order for you to receive funds. Using different IP’s is ok with us. Photo ID may be requested by our bank in case of large withdraws (10000€ or more).

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Best regards
Nejc
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Bitstamp d.o.o.
Weingerlova 8a
4208 Šenčur
www.BitStamp.net
email: support@bitstamp.net

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