Discussion about Tactics used on BCT

[Xian01]

<comedy gold>

Please go on. You're a funny, clueless guy !

[suchmoon]

I see you brought your cronies along to help defend you.  Nice move, posting stolen emails (regardless of leaving his account open) is a crime.  I do see how you became a hero to all the guys from the GAW thread - it isn't hard to look good when you are surrounded by shit.

Not a single one of the people that posted on here have any common sense, I would venture to guess that most of them are teenagers and/or living with their parents at the age of 30.

Regardless, you seem to think that you can go around bullying people, if you want to bully someone please let me know who you are and i will give you that opportunity.  I am certain that will not happen because like I mentioned earlier, you are afraid of the legal reprocussions if someone knew your true identity.

As for bitcoinnoisseur- what an idiot that guy is- one person says open public domain and another person says "leaked emails were an inside job" - which means if you post it knowing it was a leak (aka stolen) it is a crime.  And I will be happy to meet up with you as well so that you can "take out the trash" - just PM your address and I will make it happen -

The only trash that needs to be thrown out around here are you guys and JG -  

Ok that makes it so much easier. I was kind of expecting some sort of argument/rebuttal/discussion but it looks like you have switched to full personal attack mode. Good luck with that.

Cronies LOL. You do realize where you posted the link don't you? Post the link on Hashtalk wherever ex-hashtalkers are hanging out, maybe you'll get some supporters to come here.

If you think that asking questions on a forum is bullying you should probably switch your devices off and go play outside. You will have an extremely hard time anywhere on the Internet unless you browse with the strictest parental controls on. People are not going to agree with you all the time, especially if you try to impose your point of view on everyone.

Whenever you're ready to substantiate and discuss your earlier accusations like an adult - just let me know.

[Crestington]

Just an FYI for you guys.

WillieBTC seems to be a farmed account that was bought between April 21st and June 1st which seems very apparent by the one word posts and 0 contribution to any discussion since it was created until about 2 weeks ago.

First rule to scamming is deflection of the issue by trying to attack the other persons credibility. Exactly same tactic as was tried with that TNTCoin shit where instead of trying to answer questions about how they were going to back $1 a Coin when there is 1 billion Coins, it was made about Miaviator being interim CEO of PayCoin which had absolutely no relation to anything that was being asked.

[suchmoon]

Just an FYI for you guys.

WillieBTC seems to be a farmed account that was bought between April 21st and June 1st which seems very apparent by the one word posts and 0 contribution to any discussion since it was created until about 2 weeks ago.

First rule to scamming is deflection of the issue by trying to attack the other persons credibility. Exactly same tactic as was tried with that TNTCoin shit where instead of trying to answer questions about how they were going to back $1 a Coin when there is 1 billion Coins, it was made about Miaviator being interim CEO of PayCoin which had absolutely no relation to anything that was being asked.

What are you suggesting? Mr. Garza himself making an appearance to entertain us?

Frankly - I'm honored. Go Willy.

[Crestington]

Just an FYI for you guys.

WillieBTC seems to be a farmed account that was bought between April 21st and June 1st which seems very apparent by the one word posts and 0 contribution to any discussion since it was created until about 2 weeks ago.

First rule to scamming is deflection of the issue by trying to attack the other persons credibility. Exactly same tactic as was tried with that TNTCoin shit where instead of trying to answer questions about how they were going to back $1 a Coin when there is 1 billion Coins, it was made about Miaviator being interim CEO of PayCoin which had absolutely no relation to anything that was being asked.

What are you suggesting? Mr. Garza himself making an appearance to entertain us?

Frankly - I'm honored. Go Willy.

No, not Mr. Garza.

The spelling would be much worse but then if he actually did take the time to spell check, the way it is written is also not his style.

I would give it a 10% chance of it being Garza but a 95% chance of it being a purchased account for the sole purpose of hyping up Bitstone to make it seem more credible.

[suchmoon]

Just an FYI for you guys.

WillieBTC seems to be a farmed account that was bought between April 21st and June 1st which seems very apparent by the one word posts and 0 contribution to any discussion since it was created until about 2 weeks ago.

First rule to scamming is deflection of the issue by trying to attack the other persons credibility. Exactly same tactic as was tried with that TNTCoin shit where instead of trying to answer questions about how they were going to back $1 a Coin when there is 1 billion Coins, it was made about Miaviator being interim CEO of PayCoin which had absolutely no relation to anything that was being asked.

What are you suggesting? Mr. Garza himself making an appearance to entertain us?

Frankly - I'm honored. Go Willy.

No, not Mr. Garza.

The spelling would be much worse but then if he actually did take the time to spell check, the way it is written is also not his style.

I would give it a 10% chance of it being Garza but a 95% chance of it being a purchased account for the sole purpose of hyping up Bitstone to make it seem more credible.

If that's the case it's probably going to backfire. Will attract more negative attention than anything else.

[Crestington]

Just an FYI for you guys.

WillieBTC seems to be a farmed account that was bought between April 21st and June 1st which seems very apparent by the one word posts and 0 contribution to any discussion since it was created until about 2 weeks ago.

First rule to scamming is deflection of the issue by trying to attack the other persons credibility. Exactly same tactic as was tried with that TNTCoin shit where instead of trying to answer questions about how they were going to back $1 a Coin when there is 1 billion Coins, it was made about Miaviator being interim CEO of PayCoin which had absolutely no relation to anything that was being asked.

What are you suggesting? Mr. Garza himself making an appearance to entertain us?

Frankly - I'm honored. Go Willy.

No, not Mr. Garza.

The spelling would be much worse but then if he actually did take the time to spell check, the way it is written is also not his style.

I would give it a 10% chance of it being Garza but a 95% chance of it being a purchased account for the sole purpose of hyping up Bitstone to make it seem more credible.

If that's the case it's probably going to backfire. Will attract more negative attention than anything else.

I went through the different posts of the people on the thread, WillieBTC seems like the only bought account or atleast the only farmed account.

I also came across the certification, looks quite legit but does very little for proving credibility since the diamond could still be fake. The wallet shown is super shitty, especially for something that is supposed to be backed by a million dollars in assets. The wallet proof they have of it mining is of the statistics page, which means absolutely nothing because the statistics page only displays whatever values you put in, if you wanted you could type in that if it's under block 1000 there are 0 Coins when it's really producing 1 million Coins a Block or 10 times less money supply than there is.

If they are trying to attack people credibility over people poking holes in their idea then it will probably crash and burn before it's even begun whether or not it's a scam. If it's going to be legit and they want it to be legit, they should be asking people to find faults and providing undeniable proof.

[Revelation]

<comedy gold>

Please go on. You're a funny, clueless guy !

And Garza shill. Maybe badbitcoin would appreciate your narrative and hire you as the editor.

[WillyBTC]

Actually it is a purchased account, but wrong on both counts.  It is neither an account for Bitstone or JG.  I was screwed by Josh and like I have said I think what you accomplished with exposing him is a great thing.  I have not read much of the thread on GAW because I think it attacks a lot of the wrong people.  I am not talking about Josh or GAW employees or any associate - including Jonah - none of them deserve any sympathy.

My biggest complaint is how you bully people and embarrass them. Having a child with a disability I am sensitive to bullying.  Like I have said before, I have seen Whocares good deeds on HT and he helped out a lot of people with direct donations etc.  I have been following his coin for a while on a Bitstone slack channel (not Paycoin) and want to invest.  I do believe that you have some good points but you presented them poorly.  Why not simply state what could be improved upon with the coin and have a normal conversation instead of posting personal attacks and FUD.  It is obvious you have knowledge about crypto and could actually do some good.

You are correct, I do not know how you got the emails nor do I care.  I was wrong in making those accusations.  I am writing this and know there is a good chance it will fall on deaf ears.  Whats worse is there is an even higher probability it will get turned into a big joke and bashed - but I wanted you to think about what your agenda was when the GAW thread was started and what it has turned into now.  The actions you take have an affect not only on the ones you are persecuting but their families as well.


good night

edited to add the following:
I posted it here and a link to the GAW thread only.  My intentions were to take the discussion away from the thread (as you asked) but I was not going to PM you.  I am not trying to get HT users here or involved in any coin.

[kken01]

its not trolling or fud when you are trying to understand the product. there were clear problems in the initial proposal. just because you want to invest & had good interactions with whocares doesnt translate into non questioning undying love from the larger community. trust is earned not demanded. also some people made money with GAW but it doesnt mean it was right

you have to separate people from ideas. ridiculing ideas is perfectly fine and should be done. no idea is perfect from the get go, it has to evolve to be a good one. the doctor might have good intentions but it needs real work. reason for extra scrutiny is due to the fact that some people from the HT community tried to regain their losses by starting ponzis and other scams (tntcoin and what not). to the doctors credit he didnt remove all posts from his thread and communicated in a way that could gain him trust and respect in the long run. role of the dev was left quite unclear. was he there to generate value for his other project, hired to just dev it or what. because they shared one account to post it turned very convoluted. transparency > *

ps:
garza told a terminally ill person to invest his nest egg after his initial investment into GAW. that guy lost his legacy due to the overall attitude of not asking questions. (to make it less sad one guy from the "original 19" gave him 10k to leave something behind for his wife)

[Xian01]

Actually it is a purchased account

Red flag #1: Purchased account

Having a child with a disability I am sensitive to bullying.

Red flag #2: Bringing their children into an argument

I have been following his coin for a while on a Bitstone slack channel (not Paycoin) and want to invest.

Red flag #3: Evidence of shilling

Whats worse is there is an even higher probability it will get turned into a big joke and bashed - but I wanted you to think about what your agenda was when the GAW thread was started and what it has turned into now.  The actions you take have an affect not only on the ones you are persecuting but their families as well.

Red flag #4: Sympathy garnering / Appeal to emotion

[Phildo]

pointing out that a coin makes no sense and has major problems is not bullying. Perhaps if you would have read that when people were doing it about hashlets, paycoins, hashstakers, and ALL of Josh's other scams you wouldn't have been screwed by him.'

I'm still not sure what on earth you are on about with regards to "illegal" posts. It was obvious to Paul Revere, suchmoon, myself and others that paycoin wouldn't/couldn't work. We didn't need the emails to shwo that, and tried to warn everyone. The emails came way after the fact and just showed how scummy Josh actually was and that HE "realized" that it couldn't work. The emails were publicly available and just proved to show how shady the thing was.

Stop worrying about people "bullying" guys that robbed you and/or are trying to rob you or are trying some other scheme that can't/won't work and start worrying about your money. You will be in a much better place.

[Fargo]

angry bag holder?

[suchmoon]

its not trolling or fud when you are trying to understand the product. there were clear problems in the initial proposal. just because you want to invest & had good interactions with whocares doesnt translate into non questioning undying love from the larger community. trust is earned not demanded. also some people made money with GAW but it doesnt mean it was right

you have to separate people from ideas. ridiculing ideas is perfectly fine and should be done. no idea is perfect from the get go, it has to evolve to be a good one. the doctor might have good intentions but it needs real work. reason for extra scrutiny is due to the fact that some people from the HT community tried to regain their losses by starting ponzis and other scams (tntcoin and what not). to the doctors credit he didnt remove all posts from his thread and communicated in a way that could gain him trust and respect in the long run. role of the dev was left quite unclear. was he there to generate value for his other project, hired to just dev it or what. because they shared one account to post it turned very convoluted. transparency > *

ps:
garza told a terminally ill person to invest his nest egg after his initial investment into GAW. that guy lost his legacy due to the overall attitude of not asking questions. (to make it less sad one guy from the "original 19" gave him 10k to leave something behind for his wife)

Thank you, saved me typing my own response 

Bagholding is a very bad motivation, worse than the other big reason why people get into crypto (greed). A bagholder trying to recover his/her lost "investment" by cooking up another scheme is like a gambler who just lost a yolo bet and is borrowing money to win it all back. Would you lend money to such person?

All those post-XPY schemes should be considered more dangerous than any other shitcoin for that reason alone IMHO.

[WillyBTC]

its not trolling or fud when you are trying to understand the product. there were clear problems in the initial proposal. just because you want to invest & had good interactions with whocares doesnt translate into non questioning undying love from the larger community. trust is earned not demanded. also some people made money with GAW but it doesnt mean it was right

you have to separate people from ideas. ridiculing ideas is perfectly fine and should be done. no idea is perfect from the get go, it has to evolve to be a good one. the doctor might have good intentions but it needs real work. reason for extra scrutiny is due to the fact that some people from the HT community tried to regain their losses by starting ponzis and other scams (tntcoin and what not). to the doctors credit he didnt remove all posts from his thread and communicated in a way that could gain him trust and respect in the long run. role of the dev was left quite unclear. was he there to generate value for his other project, hired to just dev it or what. because they shared one account to post it turned very convoluted. transparency > *

ps:
garza told a terminally ill person to invest his nest egg after his initial investment into GAW. that guy lost his legacy due to the overall attitude of not asking questions. (to make it less sad one guy from the "original 19" gave him 10k to leave something behind for his wife)

Thank you, saved me typing my own response 

Bagholding is a very bad motivation, worse than the other big reason why people get into crypto (greed). A bagholder trying to recover his/her lost "investment" by cooking up another scheme is like a gambler who just lost a yolo bet and is borrowing money to win it all back. Would you lend money to such person?

All those post-XPY schemes should be considered more dangerous than any other shitcoin for that reason alone IMHO.

I do not disagree with what many of you have stated.  I would like to respond to some of the replies.  I did lose some on Paycoin and ignored the warning signs, big mistake but it wasn't much money.  I bought an account because I think if I post with my real account I will be ridiculed for a mistake I made and do not wish to have my personal life brought into your thread. 

In response to another couple of comments, yes I am aware of the guy with terminal cancer that Josh screwed.  I cannot remember his name on HT but I think it started with the letter "T' and I believe he did some design work.  I am also aware that you guys were on JG before the emails were leaked or made available and I apologized in a previous post, if I didn't then I apologize now.

I was one of the guys that was on HT for a long time and saw many people come and go.  I do know that many on the GAW thread have been ridiculed for trying to help those that did lose.  Just because people have a desire to try and get a coin back on its feet and that coin was a HUGE scam by JG does not mean they are a scammer. I also see your points that it will be exceedingly difficult because it is a flawed coin to begin with.

I do see the point that it is definitely a riskier endeavor to invest in an HT members coin than someone that did not potentially lose money on Paycoin.  Once again, you are assuming that Whocares lost money, when in reality it was stated on multiple threads by a lot of members that Whocares didn't even start on Paycoin until late in the game.

If Whocares does have good intentions and you have good intentions (preventing scams and protecting people), wouldn't it have been easier to contact him or another team member and say "listen, many of us have a problem with you coming out with a coin that resembles Paycoin, particularly since you were an active HT member.  We strongly advise you to rethink the coin" or hell, maybe even add in a small incentive (aka threat) like "or we will haunt you down like that scumbag JG'

That at least gives an honest person something to consider and allows them to respond.  I can tell you from my point of view, I am scared to death of you guys and want none of you crawling up my ass, not because I am scared of what you will find but because I do not want to deal with the embarassment that I have seen on the GAW thread because I made a dumb ass move.

I am not here to promote anyone or anything accept to possibly enlighten a few people that a different approach from some of you could do a lot of good for crypto and BCT.  There is so much hate and trolling that it makes it impossible for someone that may have a good idea to foster that idea.  I am not saying that scammers should get off easy or that 90+% of coins aren't scams.

Like I have said before, it is very obvious that many of you know crypto very well, I just think that your talents could also be used to benefit crypto in a positive way.

I pissed off Whocares/kilo17 on the Bitstone thread for making this thread because he said it was uncalled for and very inflammatory.  So again I want to apologize for the OP.  I have invited him to post here on the thread for what I think could be potentially invaluable feedback.

[Phildo]

What is the point of doing it privately?

I don't know whether whocares has good intentions and didn't understand the problems with the coin, or bad intentions and was trying to make a quick buck.

either way, it's better for everyone to point out the problems publicly. If he has good intentions, we can publicly figure out what's wrong, and try to educate everyone else. If he has bad intentions, why let some other rube fall into the trap in between the time we reach out and realize that he is ignoring us?

I know you don't want this to be about that coin, but the idea of 1 million worth of gems, or 100 million CAF, or whatever "backing" a coin with:

a) nothing for the person "backing" the coin to do with the coins after they acquire them.

b) no way for that backing to grow to keep pace with the coins inflation via staking/mining whatever CANNOT work.

There really is no middle ground, if you claim that will work you are either incompetent and not smart enough to "run" a coin, or a liar and a scumbag who shouldn't be trusted to "run" a coin. I don't know (or care) which one whocares was/is, stopping other people from losing anything of value in there is a benefit to crypto in a positive way because everyone person that gets fucked over by one of these schemes that can't work by definition is going to have a much bigger negative impact in crypto.

[Crestington]

its not trolling or fud when you are trying to understand the product. there were clear problems in the initial proposal. just because you want to invest & had good interactions with whocares doesnt translate into non questioning undying love from the larger community. trust is earned not demanded. also some people made money with GAW but it doesnt mean it was right

you have to separate people from ideas. ridiculing ideas is perfectly fine and should be done. no idea is perfect from the get go, it has to evolve to be a good one. the doctor might have good intentions but it needs real work. reason for extra scrutiny is due to the fact that some people from the HT community tried to regain their losses by starting ponzis and other scams (tntcoin and what not). to the doctors credit he didnt remove all posts from his thread and communicated in a way that could gain him trust and respect in the long run. role of the dev was left quite unclear. was he there to generate value for his other project, hired to just dev it or what. because they shared one account to post it turned very convoluted. transparency > *

ps:
garza told a terminally ill person to invest his nest egg after his initial investment into GAW. that guy lost his legacy due to the overall attitude of not asking questions. (to make it less sad one guy from the "original 19" gave him 10k to leave something behind for his wife)

Thank you, saved me typing my own response  

Bagholding is a very bad motivation, worse than the other big reason why people get into crypto (greed). A bagholder trying to recover his/her lost "investment" by cooking up another scheme is like a gambler who just lost a yolo bet and is borrowing money to win it all back. Would you lend money to such person?

All those post-XPY schemes should be considered more dangerous than any other shitcoin for that reason alone IMHO.

I do not disagree with what many of you have stated.  I would like to respond to some of the replies.  I did lose some on Paycoin and ignored the warning signs, big mistake but it wasn't much money.  I bought an account because I think if I post with my real account I will be ridiculed for a mistake I made and do not wish to have my personal life brought into your thread.  

In response to another couple of comments, yes I am aware of the guy with terminal cancer that Josh screwed.  I cannot remember his name on HT but I think it started with the letter "T' and I believe he did some design work.  I am also aware that you guys were on JG before the emails were leaked or made available and I apologized in a previous post, if I didn't then I apologize now.

His screen name was Trixster and was also active a bit on the GetHashing forums as well.

I was one of the guys that was on HT for a long time and saw many people come and go.  I do know that many on the GAW thread have been ridiculed for trying to help those that did lose.  Just because people have a desire to try and get a coin back on its feet and that coin was a HUGE scam by JG does not mean they are a scammer. I also see your points that it will be exceedingly difficult because it is a flawed coin to begin with.

This just comes back to doing the things that need to be done and helping in the most effective way and facing whatever people are going to say head on and make no apologies about it. If someone is going to try to embarrass you how are they going to succeed if you are open and upfront about the things that you are doing? Hack into your emails and release all your private information? What if everything in private is exactly the same things said in public?

I do see the point that it is definitely a riskier endeavor to invest in an HT members coin than someone that did not potentially lose money on Paycoin.  Once again, you are assuming that Whocares lost money, when in reality it was stated on multiple threads by a lot of members that Whocares didn't even start on Paycoin until late in the game.

If Whocares does have good intentions and you have good intentions (preventing scams and protecting people), wouldn't it have been easier to contact him or another team member and say "listen, many of us have a problem with you coming out with a coin that resembles Paycoin, particularly since you were an active HT member.  We strongly advise you to rethink the coin" or hell, maybe even add in a small incentive (aka threat) like "or we will haunt you down like that scumbag JG'

If you contact someone privately asking them if it's a scam and they tell you it isn't, then that will not make it a scam? What if you asked the wrong questions and the information provided was false but you believed it and then other people based their judgments on your personal analysis?

That at least gives an honest person something to consider and allows them to respond.  I can tell you from my point of view, I am scared to death of you guys and want none of you crawling up my ass, not because I am scared of what you will find but because I do not want to deal with the embarassment that I have seen on the GAW thread because I made a dumb ass move.

You should never be scared to hide information because you are afraid of what other people might think or people would use that information to try to embarrass you. Information is only embarrassing if you deem it so, people pick up on this and jump on it, this is the internet and what people say about the things you do really does not matter in the slightest. Some of the best advice I was ever given was "to own your mistakes" because everyone is going to make mistakes, it's part of life but you cannot learn from your mistakes if you cannot face them, accept them and learn from them.

I am not here to promote anyone or anything accept to possibly enlighten a few people that a different approach from some of you could do a lot of good for crypto and BCT.  There is so much hate and trolling that it makes it impossible for someone that may have a good idea to foster that idea.  I am not saying that scammers should get off easy or that 90+% of coins aren't scams.

Like I have said before, it is very obvious that many of you know crypto very well, I just think that your talents could also be used to benefit crypto in a positive way.

I pissed off Whocares/kilo17 on the Bitstone thread for making this thread because he said it was uncalled for and very inflammatory.  So again I want to apologize for the OP.  I have invited him to post here on the thread for what I think could be potentially invaluable feedback.

"Hate and trolling" is the reality on the internet and if you cannot accept that and discuss the issues that people have a problem with in a mature manner then you should not be doing this kind of work. Face life head on, you will always come out ahead because if you are not then those things will build up until they get out of control.

You are saying that Whocares/kilo17 are angry because you are discussing these things, I see that as a red flag for investing in their project since they should be the ones answering peoples questions.

[Mr-twister]

its not trolling or fud when you are trying to understand the product. there were clear problems in the initial proposal. just because you want to invest & had good interactions with whocares doesnt translate into non questioning undying love from the larger community. trust is earned not demanded. also some people made money with GAW but it doesnt mean it was right

you have to separate people from ideas. ridiculing ideas is perfectly fine and should be done. no idea is perfect from the get go, it has to evolve to be a good one. the doctor might have good intentions but it needs real work. reason for extra scrutiny is due to the fact that some people from the HT community tried to regain their losses by starting ponzis and other scams (tntcoin and what not). to the doctors credit he didnt remove all posts from his thread and communicated in a way that could gain him trust and respect in the long run. role of the dev was left quite unclear. was he there to generate value for his other project, hired to just dev it or what. because they shared one account to post it turned very convoluted. transparency > *

ps:
garza told a terminally ill person to invest his nest egg after his initial investment into GAW. that guy lost his legacy due to the overall attitude of not asking questions. (to make it less sad one guy from the "original 19" gave him 10k to leave something behind for his wife)

Thank you, saved me typing my own response 

Bagholding is a very bad motivation, worse than the other big reason why people get into crypto (greed). A bagholder trying to recover his/her lost "investment" by cooking up another scheme is like a gambler who just lost a yolo bet and is borrowing money to win it all back. Would you lend money to such person?

All those post-XPY schemes should be considered more dangerous than any other shitcoin for that reason alone IMHO.

I do not disagree with what many of you have stated.  I would like to respond to some of the replies.  I did lose some on Paycoin and ignored the warning signs, big mistake but it wasn't much money.  I bought an account because I think if I post with my real account I will be ridiculed for a mistake I made and do not wish to have my personal life brought into your thread. 

In response to another couple of comments, yes I am aware of the guy with terminal cancer that Josh screwed.  I cannot remember his name on HT but I think it started with the letter "T' and I believe he did some design work.  I am also aware that you guys were on JG before the emails were leaked or made available and I apologized in a previous post, if I didn't then I apologize now.

I was one of the guys that was on HT for a long time and saw many people come and go.  I do know that many on the GAW thread have been ridiculed for trying to help those that did lose.  Just because people have a desire to try and get a coin back on its feet and that coin was a HUGE scam by JG does not mean they are a scammer. I also see your points that it will be exceedingly difficult because it is a flawed coin to begin with.

I do see the point that it is definitely a riskier endeavor to invest in an HT members coin than someone that did not potentially lose money on Paycoin.  Once again, you are assuming that Whocares lost money, when in reality it was stated on multiple threads by a lot of members that Whocares didn't even start on Paycoin until late in the game.

If Whocares does have good intentions and you have good intentions (preventing scams and protecting people), wouldn't it have been easier to contact him or another team member and say "listen, many of us have a problem with you coming out with a coin that resembles Paycoin, particularly since you were an active HT member.  We strongly advise you to rethink the coin" or hell, maybe even add in a small incentive (aka threat) like "or we will haunt you down like that scumbag JG'

That at least gives an honest person something to consider and allows them to respond.  I can tell you from my point of view, I am scared to death of you guys and want none of you crawling up my ass, not because I am scared of what you will find but because I do not want to deal with the embarassment that I have seen on the GAW thread because I made a dumb ass move.

I am not here to promote anyone or anything accept to possibly enlighten a few people that a different approach from some of you could do a lot of good for crypto and BCT.  There is so much hate and trolling that it makes it impossible for someone that may have a good idea to foster that idea.  I am not saying that scammers should get off easy or that 90+% of coins aren't scams.

Like I have said before, it is very obvious that many of you know crypto very well, I just think that your talents could also be used to benefit crypto in a positive way.

I pissed off Whocares/kilo17 on the Bitstone thread for making this thread because he said it was uncalled for and very inflammatory.  So again I want to apologize for the OP.  I have invited him to post here on the thread for what I think could be potentially invaluable feedback.

Try to bring up a mortally sick cow with named paycoin that would then slaughter it and to put on the meat? 
Only a fool would believe in those stories. I think that general attempt agony defrauded the paycoin investors who still believe that they can pump up the value to this dummy coin and jump out of it with less damage.

[WillyBTC]

its not trolling or fud when you are trying to understand the product. there were clear problems in the initial proposal. just because you want to invest & had good interactions with whocares doesnt translate into non questioning undying love from the larger community. trust is earned not demanded. also some people made money with GAW but it doesnt mean it was right

you have to separate people from ideas. ridiculing ideas is perfectly fine and should be done. no idea is perfect from the get go, it has to evolve to be a good one. the doctor might have good intentions but it needs real work. reason for extra scrutiny is due to the fact that some people from the HT community tried to regain their losses by starting ponzis and other scams (tntcoin and what not). to the doctors credit he didnt remove all posts from his thread and communicated in a way that could gain him trust and respect in the long run. role of the dev was left quite unclear. was he there to generate value for his other project, hired to just dev it or what. because they shared one account to post it turned very convoluted. transparency > *

ps:
garza told a terminally ill person to invest his nest egg after his initial investment into GAW. that guy lost his legacy due to the overall attitude of not asking questions. (to make it less sad one guy from the "original 19" gave him 10k to leave something behind for his wife)

Thank you, saved me typing my own response  

Bagholding is a very bad motivation, worse than the other big reason why people get into crypto (greed). A bagholder trying to recover his/her lost "investment" by cooking up another scheme is like a gambler who just lost a yolo bet and is borrowing money to win it all back. Would you lend money to such person?

All those post-XPY schemes should be considered more dangerous than any other shitcoin for that reason alone IMHO.

I do not disagree with what many of you have stated.  I would like to respond to some of the replies.  I did lose some on Paycoin and ignored the warning signs, big mistake but it wasn't much money.  I bought an account because I think if I post with my real account I will be ridiculed for a mistake I made and do not wish to have my personal life brought into your thread.  

In response to another couple of comments, yes I am aware of the guy with terminal cancer that Josh screwed.  I cannot remember his name on HT but I think it started with the letter "T' and I believe he did some design work.  I am also aware that you guys were on JG before the emails were leaked or made available and I apologized in a previous post, if I didn't then I apologize now.

His screen name was Trixster and was also active a bit on the GetHashing forums as well.

I was one of the guys that was on HT for a long time and saw many people come and go.  I do know that many on the GAW thread have been ridiculed for trying to help those that did lose.  Just because people have a desire to try and get a coin back on its feet and that coin was a HUGE scam by JG does not mean they are a scammer. I also see your points that it will be exceedingly difficult because it is a flawed coin to begin with.

This just comes back to doing the things that need to be done and helping in the most effective way and facing whatever people are going to say head on and make no apologies about it. If someone is going to try to embarrass you how are they going to succeed if you are open and upfront about the things that you are doing? Hack into your emails and release all your private information? What if everything in private is exactly the same things said in public?

I do see the point that it is definitely a riskier endeavor to invest in an HT members coin than someone that did not potentially lose money on Paycoin.  Once again, you are assuming that Whocares lost money, when in reality it was stated on multiple threads by a lot of members that Whocares didn't even start on Paycoin until late in the game.

If Whocares does have good intentions and you have good intentions (preventing scams and protecting people), wouldn't it have been easier to contact him or another team member and say "listen, many of us have a problem with you coming out with a coin that resembles Paycoin, particularly since you were an active HT member.  We strongly advise you to rethink the coin" or hell, maybe even add in a small incentive (aka threat) like "or we will haunt you down like that scumbag JG'

If you contact someone privately asking them if it's a scam and they tell you it isn't, then that will not make it a scam? What if you asked the wrong questions and the information provided was false but you believed it and then other people based their judgments on your personal analysis?

That at least gives an honest person something to consider and allows them to respond.  I can tell you from my point of view, I am scared to death of you guys and want none of you crawling up my ass, not because I am scared of what you will find but because I do not want to deal with the embarassment that I have seen on the GAW thread because I made a dumb ass move.

You should never be scared to hide information because you are afraid of what other people might think or people would use that information to try to embarrass you. Information is only embarrassing if you deem it so, people pick up on this and jump on it, this is the internet and what people say about the things you do really does not matter in the slightest. Some of the best advice I was ever given was "to own your mistakes" because everyone is going to make mistakes, it's part of life but you cannot learn from your mistakes if you cannot face them, accept them and learn from them.

I am not here to promote anyone or anything accept to possibly enlighten a few people that a different approach from some of you could do a lot of good for crypto and BCT.  There is so much hate and trolling that it makes it impossible for someone that may have a good idea to foster that idea.  I am not saying that scammers should get off easy or that 90+% of coins aren't scams.

Like I have said before, it is very obvious that many of you know crypto very well, I just think that your talents could also be used to benefit crypto in a positive way.

I pissed off Whocares/kilo17 on the Bitstone thread for making this thread because he said it was uncalled for and very inflammatory.  So again I want to apologize for the OP.  I have invited him to post here on the thread for what I think could be potentially invaluable feedback.

"Hate and trolling" is the reality on the internet and if you cannot accept that and discuss the issues that people have a problem with in a mature manner then you should not be doing this kind of work. Face life head on, you will always come out ahead because if you are not then those things will build up until they get out of control.

You are saying that Whocares/kilo17 are angry because you are discussing these things, I see that as a red flag for investing in their project since they should be the ones answering peoples questions.

Valid points to debate. I think the dialog we are having is helping me understand for sure.  While I do agree with you on most of your points, consider this: the first post on the BitStone thread were a link to an unmoderated thread- which I am not saying in and of itself was wrong,  I am saying that in that thread it was nothing but a bunch of personal attacks and posts that were copied from the GAW thread.  Those types of comments have no value to a coin release and most if not all were simply FUD. 

Secondly, I do think the first posts from several of the GAW thread regulars on the BitStone thread were scam accusations and offered no real reasoning.  Some of the posts after that had VERY valid points, no doubt.  The problem in my eyes is this, if a person comes on a thread and the first post is SCAM then all post after that are soured.  Having said that, it is exactly what I did on this thread and I appreciate you continuing to discuss matters with me.

Lastly, I apparently did not make myself clear.  Kilo17 was angry at me for the OP (meaning the original post I made) - which most of you were also upset about.

I do appreciate your replies.

[Phildo]

whocares lost a lot of the benefit of the doubt when he refused to have rational discussion when people were trying to figure out his "sell gems for less than he paid for them" plan that couldn't work.

People tried being nice at the beginning of the GAW saga and got lied to, got their websites stolen, got dead animals sent to them in the mail, and death threats. Those are not the people who's "tactics" anyone should be questioning. Especially when those people are not asking for a penny.