Honest Bob's thread of ponzi ponzi ponzi rustyryan

[finkleshnorts]

I'm no professional poker player, but I still like to argue on the internet.

I have different opinions about many long-term offers that I won't share (because I like making friends, not enemies).

But... RustyRyan? Come on...


P.S. I've got a few bitcoins lying around to bet... Rusty defaults by May 2013. Escrowed bets only.

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[Bitcoin Oz]

I guess if you create enough doubt to cause a bank run and the investment scheme survives then its a win 

[PatrickHarnett]

A duck floats because it's lighter than wood.  If she burns it means she's made of wood.

(I did actually get some financials from RustyRyan before posting a rating   )

[nimda]

I'd call ponzi if it weren't for the A- credit rating from PatrickHarnett. My money's still staying away, though.

I'm not going to tell anyone what to do with their money, but I'd advise they don't send it to Rusty.

Patrick, do you have his ID?

[PatrickHarnett]

I'd call ponzi if it weren't for the A- credit rating from PatrickHarnett. My money's still staying away, though.

I'm not going to tell anyone what to do with their money, but I'd advise they don't send it to Rusty.

Patrick, do you have his ID?

I only have 10BTC with RustyRyan.  The longevity of his deposits is yet to be seen, and that is why the rating is lower than a comparable person that has been around for six months.  Maybe I should have used a 1-10 scale - would that have been better?

ID was not provided.  I received this question a few days ago and I recommended that person seek it directly.  The system can not force of compel deposit takers to provide all of the details, nor is there some third party audit or regulation in place to protect the unwise.  If you want to deposit with him and are unsure - ask RustyRyan the questions - that's what he is there for.

I'll state it again, the WPW thread is a collection of information that provides a starting point for people to do some of their own research.  It saves me answering a lot of questions that I was receiving by pm because I was getting asked for recommendations of where to place funds.  Also, without an attempt by anyone to do this (even if I get called names for doing so), it would be blank, and having an alternative could be quite useful.

[Micon]

I'd call ponzi if it weren't for the A- credit rating from PatrickHarnett. My money's still staying away, though.

I'm not going to tell anyone what to do with their money, but I'd advise they don't send it to Rusty.

Patrick, do you have his ID?

I only have 10BTC with RustyRyan.  The longevity of his deposits is yet to be seen, and that is why the rating is lower than a comparable person that has been around for six months.  Maybe I should have used a 1-10 scale - would that have been better?

ID was not provided.  I received this question a few days ago and I recommended that person seek it directly.  The system can not force of compel deposit takers to provide all of the details, nor is there some third party audit or regulation in place to protect the unwise.  If you want to deposit with him and are unsure - ask RustyRyan the questions - that's what he is there for.

I'll state it again, the WPW thread is a collection of information that provides a starting point for people to do some of their own research.  It saves me answering a lot of questions that I was receiving by pm because I was getting asked for recommendations of where to place funds.  Also, without an attempt by anyone to do this (even if I get called names for doing so), it would be blank, and having an alternative could be quite useful.

Patrick,
 
Here is one of your actual credit ratings:

User_name	Weekly	Monthly	Since	Credit Rating	Notes	Link
RustyRyan	3.00%	-	28-Jul-12	A-	10 coin/4 week minimum, weekly payout	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=96163.0

The fact that you give an "A-" rating to a guy in business for less than 2 months offering to borrow as much money as possible at 3% per week is offensive to any man of science 

Why the mods decide to sticky misinformation like this is beyond me.

[nimda]

I'd call ponzi if it weren't for the A- credit rating from PatrickHarnett. My money's still staying away, though.

I'm not going to tell anyone what to do with their money, but I'd advise they don't send it to Rusty.

Patrick, do you have his ID?

I only have 10BTC with RustyRyan.  The longevity of his deposits is yet to be seen, and that is why the rating is lower than a comparable person that has been around for six months.  Maybe I should have used a 1-10 scale - would that have been better?

ID was not provided.  I received this question a few days ago and I recommended that person seek it directly.  The system can not force of compel deposit takers to provide all of the details, nor is there some third party audit or regulation in place to protect the unwise.  If you want to deposit with him and are unsure - ask RustyRyan the questions - that's what he is there for.

I'll state it again, the WPW thread is a collection of information that provides a starting point for people to do some of their own research.  It saves me answering a lot of questions that I was receiving by pm because I was getting asked for recommendations of where to place funds.  Also, without an attempt by anyone to do this (even if I get called names for doing so), it would be blank, and having an alternative could be quite useful.

Perhaps I'm taking the ratings wrong; they're not ratings backed by you. "A-" at this point is only relative, and does not state any specific probability of default. "A-" is currently the lowest rating.

[Shadow383]

I'd call ponzi if it weren't for the A- credit rating from PatrickHarnett. My money's still staying away, though.

I'm not going to tell anyone what to do with their money, but I'd advise they don't send it to Rusty.

Patrick, do you have his ID?

I only have 10BTC with RustyRyan.  The longevity of his deposits is yet to be seen, and that is why the rating is lower than a comparable person that has been around for six months.  Maybe I should have used a 1-10 scale - would that have been better?

ID was not provided.  I received this question a few days ago and I recommended that person seek it directly.  The system can not force of compel deposit takers to provide all of the details, nor is there some third party audit or regulation in place to protect the unwise.  If you want to deposit with him and are unsure - ask RustyRyan the questions - that's what he is there for.

I'll state it again, the WPW thread is a collection of information that provides a starting point for people to do some of their own research.  It saves me answering a lot of questions that I was receiving by pm because I was getting asked for recommendations of where to place funds.  Also, without an attempt by anyone to do this (even if I get called names for doing so), it would be blank, and having an alternative could be quite useful.

What would be required for someone to get a B or C credit rating? 

[PatrickHarnett]

Yes, the ratings are relative.  The various metrics that are shown are ranked 0 to 6.  There are some people don't wish to actually do any actual research or reading before they throw their money away so they gloss over all the things they should do before investing, and it is hard to save people from themselves. 

Most of what is over in the WPW thread is copied from the posts of the people concerned.  It's not a particularly subjective process either.  And, having first done some work on it back in May (i.e months ago) and consistently inviting comments and feedback, it seems finally to have actually occurred - although in a rather disjointed and personal attack kind of process.

Back to Honest Bob's OP - yes, it is interesting that people can pop up and ask for loans and/or promise interest on deposits and rake in quite large sums (TheBitMan springs to mind).  I have seen people take 300BTC loans for shonky deals, I even provided some loans that turned into turkeys, but in each case I'll do an assessment first.  Not always perfect, but better than nothing nothing and then bleating about it.  And I'll say it again (because some people simply don't want to hear the message), do your research.

[Eisenberg]

What would be required for someone to get a B or C credit rating? 

Patrick gave this when he first started the credit ratings, don't know if it's been revised since then though.

Financial
Liquid Assets: Those able to be redeemed within 48 hours - includes cash held at an exchange.
Assets: Typically investments in fixed term deposits or extended as loans.
Investments: Stocks, bonds and investments in BTC enterprises that are not necessarily liquid.

Nett Income: Average monthly income for the last 3 months.
Bad debts: Total of bad debts to Assets for the last 3 months. 

Current Liabilities: Payable within 1 month.
Term liabilities: Payable later than one month.

Non-Financial
Identity verification (generally accepted people know who you are in real life)
Length of time in "business" (months)
Operation of limits on accounts.
Disaster recovery procedures (Y/N)
Prior late or missed payments.

Non-Financial
Identity verification (generally accepted people know who you are in real life)
Length of time in "business" (months)
Operation of limits on accounts.
Disaster recovery procedures (Y/N)
Prior late or missed payments within the last six months.

Ratios

-------------------------------	AAA	AA	A	BBB	BB	B	C
Liabilities / monthly income less than	3	6	9	12	18	24	-
Bad debt ratio less than	0	2	4	6	8	10	-
Current_liabilities_/_Liquid_Assets_less_than	1	1.5	2	2.5	3	5	-
Liabilities_/_Assets_less_than	0.5	0.75	0.9	1	1.1	1.25	-
Time in "business" months	12	6	5	4	3	2	1

Modifiers - to move from one category to another takes three points.
ID verified: +1
Account limits: If current limits maintain or improve ratios, +1, otherwise -1.
Disaster recovery: +1
Prior late/missed payments: -3 per event.

[finkleshnorts]

RustyRyan now claims to have 1090 BTC. So far he has returned pricipal of just over 15 BTC.

Talk is cheap, trust is cheaper.

[Garr255]

If anyone wants to bet, here's my Bet Escrow thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104494.0