At what point do we stop kidding ourselves? Bye Bye mining farms.

[coinableS]

How can you expect to have a quality conersation when you immediately come off defensive and with a nasty attitude? Calling people fools and idiots because they don't agree with you is a great way to keep people away.

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I'm expecting the price of BTC to rise as a result ..

[westernuniontobitcoin]

no one can touch bitcoin, enough said!!!

[mrkubanftw]

How can you expect to have a quality conersation when you immediately come off defensive and with a nasty attitude? Calling people fools and idiots because they don't agree with you is a great way to keep people away.

Take part or don't. Thank you for contributing yet another off topic reply though!


Plenty of people contributed to this discussion in a helpful way. Only one person said some stupid ass shit that had nothing to do with the discussion and he was called on it. Action. Reaction.

[mrkubanftw]

I'm expecting the price of BTC to rise as a result ..

I do expect btc to rise as well. Not exclusively though. Hashrate will rise to an almost unprofitable state, and hopefully the btc value follows suit. I can say this is the first quarter in the history of bitcoin that we've actually seen decreases in difficulty which is promising. That's for a different discussion though. I cover quite a bit of that here --->   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1091571.msg11695012#msg11695012

[jonald_fyookball]

 Hashrate will rise to an almost unprofitable state,

already happened.


https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate

[mrkubanftw]

 Hashrate will rise to an almost unprofitable state,

already happened.


https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate

How? I suppose its a matter of interpretation. It's still quite profitable in my area as well as many areas. Undervolted I would be over 50% profitable.

[bitnanigans]

The mining farms are going to exist as long as they are breaking even and the mining continues to be profitable. The price of bitcoin would have to drop very low (<$100) before they go away.

[jonald_fyookball]

 Hashrate will rise to an almost unprofitable state,

already happened.


https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate

How? I suppose its a matter of interpretation. It's still quite profitable in my area as well as many areas. Undervolted I would be over 50% profitable.

how?  it's already risen to the 400,000,000 level three months ago and hasn't moved beyond it.  as you said, it's 'almost unprofitable' (or else it would be rising further).  it may do so later , for example of the btc price rises, but for now, it ain't.

[odolvlobo]

A cryptocurrency that cost nothing to make will eventually worth nothing, because it is voluntarily participated. Why should I pay 200 dollar for something that cost nothing to make??? Suppose that you can generate 1 bitcoin today with a cost of 1 dollar, then everyone will immediately go to generate coin and sell it on market for $199 of profit right away, that will drag the price down to 1 dollar.

First, if I gave 144 people 25 bitcoins each, and they sold them, what would happen to the price of a bitcoin? According to you, the market would collapse because it cost them nothing to gain those bitcoins. Obviously, it wouldn't because there are enough free bitcoins to affect the market. You can't generate an unlimited number of bitcoins, so you can't drag the value down to the marginal cost.

Second, suppose Bitcoin was premined and 1 bitcoin was given to each of 21,000,000 people. Would the value of the bitcoins forever be 0? What if other people wanted some? What if people wanted two or more? What if one person managed to collect 10,000 and got someone to trade two pizzas for them? Would the value still forever be stuck at 0? No.

Don't you see? The value of a bitcoin has nothing to do with the cost of creating it. The supply of bitcoins does not depend on their value and bitcoins are not consumed. The economics of gold, oil, and other commodities do not apply to bitcoin.

[jonald_fyookball]

A cryptocurrency that cost nothing to make will eventually worth nothing, because it is voluntarily participated. Why should I pay 200 dollar for something that cost nothing to make??? Suppose that you can generate 1 bitcoin today with a cost of 1 dollar, then everyone will immediately go to generate coin and sell it on market for $199 of profit right away, that will drag the price down to 1 dollar.

First, if I gave 144 people 25 bitcoins each, and they sold them, what would happen to the price of a bitcoin? According to you, the market would collapse because it cost them nothing to gain those bitcoins. Obviously, it wouldn't because there are enough free bitcoins to affect the market. You can't generate an unlimited number of bitcoins, so you can't drag the value down to the marginal cost.

Second, suppose Bitcoin was premined and 1 bitcoin was given to each of 21,000,000 people. Would the value of the bitcoins forever be 0? What if other people wanted some? What if people wanted two or more? What if one person managed to collect 10,000 and got someone to trade a pizza for them? Would the value still forever be stuck at 0? No.

Don't you see? The value of a bitcoin has nothing to do with the cost of creating it. The supply of bitcoins does not depend on their value and bitcoins are not consumed. The economics of gold, oil, and other commodities does not apply to bitcoin.

You are correct.  However, there is still a psychological bias toward buying into a currency that had real work done to create vs a premine.

[odolvlobo]

No, it is not responsible as human beings to waste electricity.

The Sun wastes about 3.846 × 10²⁰ MW. I don't see why humans must bear responsibility for such an piddling amount.

[odolvlobo]

Hashrate will rise to an almost unprofitable state,

already happened.
https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate

How? I suppose its a matter of interpretation. It's still quite profitable in my area as well as many areas. Undervolted I would be over 50% profitable.

Shhhhhh

[xhomerx10]

 Fortunately, it seems that miners are concentrating in places that have hydroelectric power.  I would imagine that any environmentally responsible person who was mining Bitcoin in an area that is serviced with electricity from other-than wind, solar or hydro-electric generating stations has already shut down their miners or bought sufficient carbon credits to offset their output.  Gov'ts don't need to concentrate their efforts specifically on shutting down Bitcoin mining, they only have to make any industry that uses fossil fuel prohibitively expensive by adding the carbon tax and it's already happening.

[wywoc1]

 It's a free market。 In China, miner work in the remote frontiers because low electricity fee.

[mrkubanftw]

 Hashrate will rise to an almost unprofitable state,

already happened.


https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate

How? I suppose its a matter of interpretation. It's still quite profitable in my area as well as many areas. Undervolted I would be over 50% profitable.

how?  it's already risen to the 400,000,000 level three months ago and hasn't moved beyond it.  as you said, it's 'almost unprofitable' (or else it would be rising further).  it may do so later , for example of the btc price rises, but for now, it ain't.

Dude.

http://www.coinwarz.com/calculators/bitcoin-mining-calculator

I already cited my predictions thread. You can't sit here and tell me its 'barely' profitable when one of the original profitability calculators is spelling out that it's (mining) is 200% profitable over electricity cost. Places like washington (all hydro power) are like 400% profitable. Unless you live in the EU or New York.. you should do just fine for while yet. I don't anticipate a jump in hashrate until the block reward halves. It's possible it might slightly pick up before then but i doubt it. I think the price of bitcoin will drop slightly over the next few months going into Q3 and when Q4 hits i expect KNC to launch whatever shenanagins they have planned and then we will see some action. Using the last 180 day horizon as reference we are lucky to have seen a 4% increase in hashrate per month, with 3-4 drops in diff. I think this is attributed to people changing out less efficient miners for more efficient miners. People have actually decreased hash power but with a lesser electricity cost so its more over profitable in the long run.

[Amph]

if the wattage will go down because of a better efficiency, then more miners will be added = the same result as today(with more hashpower, but same consumption), you can't escape from that equation

the only thing to reduce it would be that bitcoin will remain at current price(after the halving), therefore miners need to shut down 50% of the total hash, unless they manage to double their efficiency in 1 year

so there is a percentage of possibility that nothing will change with the reward(besides the difficulty), highly unlikely though

The total cost of mining is usually similar to the block rewards.

It is still cheaper than cost of maintaining today's banking system, many many folds.

then why governments are not adopting bitcoin, it would be a win win situation for them, if the cost are vastly cheaper, is only regualtion that prevent this? or there is something else...

i think they just don't like to not have the control over money

[Lauda]

The total cost of mining is usually similar to the block rewards.

It is still cheaper than cost of maintaining today's banking system, many many folds.

then why governments are not adopting bitcoin, it would be a win win situation for them, if the cost are vastly cheap, is only regualtion that prevent this? or there is somethign else...

i think they just don't like to not have the control over money

The answer is quite simple, although this might be a little off the topic. They are never going to adopt something that they can not control. If everyone were to use Bitcoin this moment, the banks would start dying out pretty quickly in my opinion. They could only die if someone were to start offering loans in Bitcoin (like banks do).

Actually they are trying to find ways to use the blockchain technology because it is cheaper for them. I wonder how much power banks waste compared to Bitcoin?

[manselr]

Here we go again. In fact bitcoin mining is no more harmful than the wastefulness of mining gold out of the ground, creating gold bars from in, and then putting it back in banks again.
Not to mention the building cities or creating other things is the waste of energy as well. Printing and minting all the various fiat currencies, guarding it with people who could do something else etc.
I would say that as far as mediums of exchange go, bitcoin is actually quite economical of resources, compared to others.

Mining Gold is infinitely more expensive, both monetary and environmentally. The impact on the terrain can make huge damage to anything that lives close to it. The annoying noise of the machines which cannot be covered inside a building.. etc etc. BTC mining is nothing compared to that.

[mrkubanftw]

if the wattage will go down because of a better efficiency, then more miners will be added = the same result as today(with more hashpower, but same consumption), you can't escape from that equation

the only thing to reduce it would be that bitcoin will remain at current price(after the halving), therefore miners need to shut down 50% of the total hash, unless they manage to double their efficiency in 1 year

so there is a percentage of possibility that nothing will change with the reward(besides the difficulty), highly unlikely though

The total cost of mining is usually similar to the block rewards.

It is still cheaper than cost of maintaining today's banking system, many many folds.

then why governments are not adopting bitcoin, it would be a win win situation for them, if the cost are vastly cheaper, is only regualtion that prevent this? or there is something else...

i think they just don't like to not have the control over money

Well take america for example... We print money to cover debt. Which further increases inflation and the national debt, which we in turn print more money to cover. It's a vicious circle. But on that basis alone, america would be unable to adopt bitcoin as  currency (with the inability to print it at will) without going completely bankrupt We don't want that along with every country that we do business with. Now like its been mentioned it's possible they backbone on the blockchain... this still doesn't eliminate USD and it wont.