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Author Topic: OP_HODL  (Read 5711 times)
amaclin
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February 11, 2016, 03:58:23 AM
 #41

This is a good step forward.
Why are you so sure? Nobody on network uses this feature today. No-bo-dy.

How would you know? It's a new feature but it has some use cases. I think it's good to have it around for whoever feels like there's need to.
Isn't is difficult to count the number of OP_CLTV operations in blocks for the day or for the week?
belcher
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February 11, 2016, 12:46:02 PM
 #42

This is a good step forward.
Why are you so sure? Nobody on network uses this feature today. No-bo-dy.

How would you know? It's a new feature but it has some use cases. I think it's good to have it around for whoever feels like there's need to.
Isn't is difficult to count the number of OP_CLTV operations in blocks for the day or for the week?

The public does not know whether the redeemScript involves OP_CLTV until they're redeemed. If somebody locked up funds for 10 years you wont know until 2026 when they spend them.

more than 10% of all bitcoins are held in p2sh addresses, so the upper bound of OP_CLTV usage is quite large.

1HZBd22eQLgbwxjwbCtSjhoPFWxQg8rBd9
JoinMarket - CoinJoin that people will actually use.
PGP fingerprint: 0A8B 038F 5E10 CC27 89BF CFFF EF73 4EA6 77F3 1129
amaclin
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February 11, 2016, 06:46:25 PM
 #43

The public does not know whether the redeemScript involves OP_CLTV until they're redeemed. If somebody locked up funds for 10 years you wont know until 2026 when they spend them.
Excelent.

Quote
more than 10% of all bitcoins are held in p2sh addresses, so the upper bound of OP_CLTV usage is quite large.
redeemScript is known for most of them. Yes, there are addresses without spending transactions. But it is possible to hodl funds on such address till 2026 without OP_CLTV - just not spend funds Smiley
BlindMayorBitcorn (OP)
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February 13, 2016, 12:20:44 PM
Last edit: February 14, 2016, 03:44:16 AM by BlindMayorBitcorn
 #44

The Darkleaks protocol has three major shortcomings/vulnerabilities that appear to stem from fundamental functional limitations of Bitcoin’s scripting language when constructing contracts without direct communication between parties. That these limitations are fundamental is evidenced by calls for new, time-dependent opcodes. One example is CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY; apart from its many legitimate applications, proponents note that it can facilitate secret leakage.*


Fixed. Thanks Core. Wink




*Source: Using Smart Contracts for Crime
Ari Juels
Jacobs Institute, Cornell Tech
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et al.

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
JayJuanGee
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February 14, 2016, 09:00:27 PM
 #45

I'm not sure if I understand much of the technical gobbledy gook of this thread;however, I do find this to be a very interesting concept that could potentially turn western common law practices on it's head in a variety of ways.

Well, yeah, bitcoin already does that; however, in this thread we seem to be referring to the possibility of creating a contract that initially may be within the control of the creator(s), but could be written in such a way that it falls out of the control of the creator(s), and thereby becomes executable upon the meeting of various conditions at some point in the future.

If I understand correctly, in western common law, no contract controlling the disposition of property (or assets) (frequently applicable in the area of wills and trusts) can be valid if it violates the rule against perpetuities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_against_perpetuities


In summary, a contract needs to be created and under the control of human beings and no longer than a measuring life plus 21 years in order to free up the title.. blah blah blah.  The idea is that there is a societal value that property and assets remain controllable by living persons (rather than potentially completely controlled by someone who has been dead more than a measuring life plus 21 years (which may last 100 or more years).

If contracts are able to be created to tie up such property for longer periods of time, and neither the state nor any person has control of such tied up property, that could lead to very interesting difficulties and changes in the way we view certain kinds of property.. and ability of dead people to control property from their earlier execution of a contract that no longer can be controlled by anyone, including the state.

I do recognize that there are a lot of valid uses, and even that this whole technology could be very innovative and good, if the contracts are written well and people do not realize later that they fucked up the language of the contract and tied up the assets for a longer period than they had originally intended. 

I would only argue that it could be a bad thing in the sense that it does have the potential to tie up property for very long periods of time and beyond any kind of reasonable period that any living people could want, when the contract may have been created by someone who either loses control over it because of death or wrote in a mistaken way that causes the property to be tied up and therefore outside of the control of people (which ultimately, in my view, should be the beneficiaries and able to control actual assets in the real world within reasonable periods of time after the creation of such contracts)

1) Self-Custody is a right.  There is no such thing as "non-custodial" or "un-hosted."  2) ESG, KYC & AML are attack-vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.  3) How much alt (shit)coin diversification is necessary? if you are into Bitcoin, then 0%......if you cannot control your gambling, then perhaps limit your alt(shit)coin exposure to less than 10% of your bitcoin size...Put BTC here: bc1q49wt0ddnj07wzzp6z7affw9ven7fztyhevqu9k
BlindMayorBitcorn (OP)
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February 14, 2016, 09:13:58 PM
Last edit: February 14, 2016, 09:46:56 PM by BlindMayorBitcorn
 #46

Welcome to the thread, JJG! It'll be a brave new world, with such smart contracts in it. That's for sure. I'm excited. Smiley

Suggested reading: Cryptocurrencies, Smart Contracts, and Artificial Intelligence

The legal codes of many countries have become quite complex. Several AI projects are trying to create formal digital versions of legal codes (CodeX, 2014). These systems will eventually be used to resolve legal issues and perhaps even act as arbitrators or judges. Sophisticated AI systems with knowledge of the legal system will be used to help craft and simplify new legislation.



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Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
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