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Author Topic: “Save a Life–Surrender Your Knife” Program  (Read 1484 times)
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June 27, 2015, 08:05:00 PM
 #1

http://www.citizen-action.com/british-police-order-citizens-surrender-knives/article1327

Quote
The right to bear arms might be under attack here in America–but in the United Kingdom, police are trying to do something even more ridiculous: they’re attempting to ban knives.

The British police have recently joined forces with liberal grassroots activists in the UK, launching the “Save a Life–Surrender Your Knife” program. Knife crime has been climbing recently in major UK cities like London.

The program involved several weeks of “amnesty” for “pointed knives.” Civilians can turn in these apparently dangerous weapons at their local police station in exchange for “amnesty,” apparently, even though knives (rounded or pointed) aren’t illegal in the United Kingdom.

In the last few months of 2014, when the program was running, about 800 knives had been handed in across the country–”including swords, machetes, and commando knives,” according to the Lancashire Police Department.

800 seems like a large number… until you remember the United Kingdom has a population of more than 64.1 million people, most of whom probably have a knife or two lying around the house.

Because the problem with knife crime, however, is that it’s pretty much impossible to stop just by banning knives itself. Virtually every person in the United Kingdom owns a knife–and, as long as food needs cutting, that’s not going to change.

That doesn’t mean they carry a knife around in their pocket but, as the BBC reported a few years ago, the problem is that “many assaults are committed impulsively, prompted by alcohol and drugs, and a kitchen knife often makes an all too available weapon.”

Basically, the police can ask for a knife ban as many times as they want–but as long as you have cutlery, you’re going to have easy access to a “deadly weapon” that can be used in a whole number of crimes.

Of course, that hasn’t stopped the police from declaring the program a success.

Lancashire announced that “officers have now given their backing to a national initiative designed to raise awareness of knife crime and encourage the surrender of dangerous weapons.” Even without so-called “amnesty,” British citizens can drop knives in special bins in the police station.

The logic seems to be: if you can’t convince the British people to part with their “dangerous” and “pointy” cookware… well, keep trying.

“While projects encouraging the surrender of knives are not a single solution to violence, they have an important role to play in inspiring communities to get behind education and preventative measures,” explained Detective Chief Inspector Steve Dowson, also of the Lancashire Police Department.

He added: “We’ve been delighted with the response so far, but our communities have told us that they want an end to knife crime and that they want to work with us to make that happen.”

Incidentally, the knife violence rate in the United Kingdom is about double the rate of gun violence in the United States. Possibly because Americans haven’t yet been asked to throw away their right to self-defense in a bin at the police station.

Ridiculous! So, are they going to make venders sell us our steaks perforated or pre-cut into bite sized pieces? Roll Eyes

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June 28, 2015, 12:25:12 AM
 #2

This does sound ridiculous, but what are the violence per capita numbers in the UK, are they super low? And I guess what's more important is that the people in the UK are voting for this lifestyle (or voting for the officials that say they'll be putting this sort of legislation in place.) The people get what the people want!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

The intentional homicide rate for the UK is super low, 1 per 100,000 inhabitants. The US is 4.7 per 100,000 inhabitants. What's the motivation for the UK to continue to ban knives? Is there some recent up tick in knife related crime?

What's next, fists? Bring us your fists so you can't fight anyone!

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June 28, 2015, 01:06:47 AM
 #3

http://www.citizen-action.com/british-police-order-citizens-surrender-knives/article1327

Quote
The right to bear arms might be under attack here in America–but in the United Kingdom, police are trying to do something even more ridiculous: they’re attempting to ban knives.

The British police have recently joined forces with liberal grassroots activists in the UK, launching the “Save a Life–Surrender Your Knife” program. Knife crime has been climbing recently in major UK cities like London.

The program involved several weeks of “amnesty” for “pointed knives.” Civilians can turn in these apparently dangerous weapons at their local police station in exchange for “amnesty,” apparently, even though knives (rounded or pointed) aren’t illegal in the United Kingdom.

In the last few months of 2014, when the program was running, about 800 knives had been handed in across the country–”including swords, machetes, and commando knives,” according to the Lancashire Police Department.

800 seems like a large number… until you remember the United Kingdom has a population of more than 64.1 million people, most of whom probably have a knife or two lying around the house.

Because the problem with knife crime, however, is that it’s pretty much impossible to stop just by banning knives itself. Virtually every person in the United Kingdom owns a knife–and, as long as food needs cutting, that’s not going to change.

That doesn’t mean they carry a knife around in their pocket but, as the BBC reported a few years ago, the problem is that “many assaults are committed impulsively, prompted by alcohol and drugs, and a kitchen knife often makes an all too available weapon.”

Basically, the police can ask for a knife ban as many times as they want–but as long as you have cutlery, you’re going to have easy access to a “deadly weapon” that can be used in a whole number of crimes.

Of course, that hasn’t stopped the police from declaring the program a success.

Lancashire announced that “officers have now given their backing to a national initiative designed to raise awareness of knife crime and encourage the surrender of dangerous weapons.” Even without so-called “amnesty,” British citizens can drop knives in special bins in the police station.

The logic seems to be: if you can’t convince the British people to part with their “dangerous” and “pointy” cookware… well, keep trying.

“While projects encouraging the surrender of knives are not a single solution to violence, they have an important role to play in inspiring communities to get behind education and preventative measures,” explained Detective Chief Inspector Steve Dowson, also of the Lancashire Police Department.

He added: “We’ve been delighted with the response so far, but our communities have told us that they want an end to knife crime and that they want to work with us to make that happen.”

Incidentally, the knife violence rate in the United Kingdom is about double the rate of gun violence in the United States. Possibly because Americans haven’t yet been asked to throw away their right to self-defense in a bin at the police station.

Ridiculous! So, are they going to make venders sell us our steaks perforated or pre-cut into bite sized pieces? Roll Eyes




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June 28, 2015, 01:17:56 AM
 #4

so first guns are the issue now knives, what next baseball bats ?

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June 28, 2015, 11:07:05 PM
 #5

http://www.citizen-action.com/british-police-order-citizens-surrender-knives/article1327

Quote
The right to bear arms might be under attack here in America–but in the United Kingdom, police are trying to do something even more ridiculous: they’re attempting to ban knives.

The British police have recently joined forces with liberal grassroots activists in the UK, launching the “Save a Life–Surrender Your Knife” program. Knife crime has been climbing recently in major UK cities like London.

The program involved several weeks of “amnesty” for “pointed knives.” Civilians can turn in these apparently dangerous weapons at their local police station in exchange for “amnesty,” apparently, even though knives (rounded or pointed) aren’t illegal in the United Kingdom.

In the last few months of 2014, when the program was running, about 800 knives had been handed in across the country–”including swords, machetes, and commando knives,” according to the Lancashire Police Department.

800 seems like a large number… until you remember the United Kingdom has a population of more than 64.1 million people, most of whom probably have a knife or two lying around the house.

Because the problem with knife crime, however, is that it’s pretty much impossible to stop just by banning knives itself. Virtually every person in the United Kingdom owns a knife–and, as long as food needs cutting, that’s not going to change.

That doesn’t mean they carry a knife around in their pocket but, as the BBC reported a few years ago, the problem is that “many assaults are committed impulsively, prompted by alcohol and drugs, and a kitchen knife often makes an all too available weapon.”

Basically, the police can ask for a knife ban as many times as they want–but as long as you have cutlery, you’re going to have easy access to a “deadly weapon” that can be used in a whole number of crimes.

Of course, that hasn’t stopped the police from declaring the program a success.

Lancashire announced that “officers have now given their backing to a national initiative designed to raise awareness of knife crime and encourage the surrender of dangerous weapons.” Even without so-called “amnesty,” British citizens can drop knives in special bins in the police station.

The logic seems to be: if you can’t convince the British people to part with their “dangerous” and “pointy” cookware… well, keep trying.

“While projects encouraging the surrender of knives are not a single solution to violence, they have an important role to play in inspiring communities to get behind education and preventative measures,” explained Detective Chief Inspector Steve Dowson, also of the Lancashire Police Department.

He added: “We’ve been delighted with the response so far, but our communities have told us that they want an end to knife crime and that they want to work with us to make that happen.”

Incidentally, the knife violence rate in the United Kingdom is about double the rate of gun violence in the United States. Possibly because Americans haven’t yet been asked to throw away their right to self-defense in a bin at the police station.

Ridiculous! So, are they going to make venders sell us our steaks perforated or pre-cut into bite sized pieces? Roll Eyes





Well, would the program make sense under any scenario?  Say it was limited to double edged switchblades or other illegal knives.  Would that make sense?

I think not, because possession of weapon does not imply offensive, 100x more likely defensive.

But what do people think?
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June 29, 2015, 01:50:54 AM
 #6

http://www.citizen-action.com/british-police-order-citizens-surrender-knives/article1327

Quote
The right to bear arms might be under attack here in America–but in the United Kingdom, police are trying to do something even more ridiculous: they’re attempting to ban knives.

The British police have recently joined forces with liberal grassroots activists in the UK, launching the “Save a Life–Surrender Your Knife” program. Knife crime has been climbing recently in major UK cities like London.

The program involved several weeks of “amnesty” for “pointed knives.” Civilians can turn in these apparently dangerous weapons at their local police station in exchange for “amnesty,” apparently, even though knives (rounded or pointed) aren’t illegal in the United Kingdom.

In the last few months of 2014, when the program was running, about 800 knives had been handed in across the country–”including swords, machetes, and commando knives,” according to the Lancashire Police Department.

800 seems like a large number… until you remember the United Kingdom has a population of more than 64.1 million people, most of whom probably have a knife or two lying around the house.

Because the problem with knife crime, however, is that it’s pretty much impossible to stop just by banning knives itself. Virtually every person in the United Kingdom owns a knife–and, as long as food needs cutting, that’s not going to change.

That doesn’t mean they carry a knife around in their pocket but, as the BBC reported a few years ago, the problem is that “many assaults are committed impulsively, prompted by alcohol and drugs, and a kitchen knife often makes an all too available weapon.”

Basically, the police can ask for a knife ban as many times as they want–but as long as you have cutlery, you’re going to have easy access to a “deadly weapon” that can be used in a whole number of crimes.

Of course, that hasn’t stopped the police from declaring the program a success.

Lancashire announced that “officers have now given their backing to a national initiative designed to raise awareness of knife crime and encourage the surrender of dangerous weapons.” Even without so-called “amnesty,” British citizens can drop knives in special bins in the police station.

The logic seems to be: if you can’t convince the British people to part with their “dangerous” and “pointy” cookware… well, keep trying.

“While projects encouraging the surrender of knives are not a single solution to violence, they have an important role to play in inspiring communities to get behind education and preventative measures,” explained Detective Chief Inspector Steve Dowson, also of the Lancashire Police Department.

He added: “We’ve been delighted with the response so far, but our communities have told us that they want an end to knife crime and that they want to work with us to make that happen.”

Incidentally, the knife violence rate in the United Kingdom is about double the rate of gun violence in the United States. Possibly because Americans haven’t yet been asked to throw away their right to self-defense in a bin at the police station.

Ridiculous! So, are they going to make venders sell us our steaks perforated or pre-cut into bite sized pieces? Roll Eyes





Well, would the program make sense under any scenario?  Say it was limited to double edged switchblades or other illegal knives.  Would that make sense?

I think not, because possession of weapon does not imply offensive, 100x more likely defensive.

But what do people think?


The solution is simple really...




It’s always interesting to see how quickly religious rights go out the window when we’re talking about people who aren’t in the majority.

Those in the Sikh faith must carry a Kirpan (below), a small knife, at all times. In some school districts, they’ve made exceptions for these potential weapons by saying they had to be sewn into the clothes in an inaccessible way. But since it’s part of the faith, if they were to be banned, that would likely mean an end to all religious symbols (including cross necklaces), so most districts have had to figure out a way to toe the line between respecting religious symbols and defending zero-tolerance policies against weapons.

That’s the basis for a controversy in Auburn, Washington, where district officials have given an elementary school student from a Sikh family the green light to wear a Kirpan in the classroom:


District administrators are citing state and federal guidelines that allow certain exceptions to Washington’s “zero tolerance” for weapons policy.

They say there are plenty of Sikhs, both students and staff, who have carried Kirpans to school for years without incident.
In this case, the knife is to be kept under the child’s clothes at all times.

“The knife can’t come out. It can’t be shown around. It needs to be underneath their clothing,” said Auburn Assistant Superintendent of Schools Ryan Foster. “That allows them to express their religion without jeopardizing anyone’s feeling of safety. If there are any problems, we will take it to the family, but we don’t expect any.”




Just to reiterate, the Kirpan is never to be used as a weapon. In fact, it’s offensive to Sikhs to refer to it as such. If they ever hurt someone with it, they would likely be ostracized from the community and be considered an apostate.
It’s one of those religious privileges that scares people who don’t understand it. Outsiders see the Kirpan as a weapon while the Sikh faithful see it as a symbol of their faith and no more. When one person in the district says her safety is compromised, it’s because she thinks of it as a tool to hurt people, first and foremost, and that’s where her ignorance comes into play.

If anyone is scared, not of the Sikhs, but of the weapons being stolen and used to hurt people, keep in mind that there are plenty of potential weapons in schools that no one worries about because they expect them to be used properly — compasses, scissors, knives in art classes, etc. I don’t see why this would be any different. There are no instances, as far as I can tell, of school stabbings by Sikhs; if there was one, we’d be having a very different conversation.

Plus, the district would likely lose a lawsuit if they banned the Kirpan. So from their perspective, this seems like the best move.

Jerry Coyne disagrees, but he falls into the same trap as the others who don’t understand the symbol’s purpose:


Once again religion gets unwarranted privileges. Sikhs get to carry weapons in schools; members of other faiths can’t. The school district should enforce its regulation for everyone.

What makes this especially galling to nonbelievers (besides the failure of the government to treat people equitably) is that this dagger is being carried in the name of false beliefs. Regardless, even if, as some Sikhs maintain, “we are a peace-loving people,” those daggers can be taken and used by other people, too.



No, they can’t, if they’re properly hidden underneath the clothes and never taken out. The problem with Coyne saying the same rule must apply to everyone is that wearing the Kirpan is an explicit requirement of the Sikh faith (as is the requirement not to use it to hurt people). No other faith treats a knife as merely a symbol. (The ACLU, incidentally, has defended Sikhs who were punished for wearing a Kirpan.)

I do agree with Coyne on one point: I don’t see why the Kirpan has to be, for example, a stainless steel symbol and not a more harmless wooden one with a blunt tip. The faith calls for a Kirpan without going into specific makes and models. The school could easily create a compromise around that.

I know it seems illogical to defend anyone bringing a knife to school for any reason, much less a religious one, but I’m just not convinced by anyone who fears for their safety because of this. They’re showing incredible ignorance of what the Sikh faith is calling for here.

Not to mention that, for strategic reasons, I’d much rather be on the side of individual religious rights. It makes our side much stronger, then, when we go after actual cases of religious overreach.


http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/10/27/lay-off-on-the-sikh-student-allowed-to-bring-a-knife-into-his-school/



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June 29, 2015, 02:15:04 AM
 #7

It is estimated that there are some 1,000,000 illegal firearms currently circulating in the United Kingdom, compared to 400,000 legally held rifles and pistols. That measures to around 20 illegal guns for every 1,000 people. A few years ago, the Guardian published an article on how easy it is to obtain an illegal firearm in the United Kingdom.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/30/ukcrime1

And these people want to concentrate on kitchen knives and baseball bats.  Grin


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June 29, 2015, 03:44:22 AM
 #8

It is estimated that there are some 1,000,000 illegal firearms currently circulating in the United Kingdom, compared to 400,000 legally held rifles and pistols. That measures to around 20 illegal guns for every 1,000 people. A few years ago, the Guardian published an article on how easy it is to obtain an illegal firearm in the United Kingdom.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/30/ukcrime1

And these people want to concentrate on kitchen knives and baseball bats.  Grin

I'm thinking a reasonable compromise would be to have a three foot stick of 1" rebar sitting around.  That could be turned into a sword in a short period of time.  Say two half hour periods.  Granted it wouldn't have the beautiful grain structure...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_PS2l31EhM
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June 29, 2015, 05:01:35 AM
 #9

Their next marketing campaign will be "Become a survivor, give up your screw driver!".

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June 29, 2015, 06:20:42 PM
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In western countries they are taking more steps to ban the knives, but in some Asian countries people carrying the sword and knife with them just for pride and to mark the value of their ancestors, that eventually turn them to use as a weapons to attack or threat their own people and neighborhoods.

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June 29, 2015, 07:42:48 PM
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The west is getting more and more pussfied.
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June 30, 2015, 08:46:24 AM
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The west is getting more and more pussfied.

What do you expect when people are bombarded 24x7 with gay propaganda and an extreme version of political correctness? Fortunately, the native pussies in Western Europe will become a minority soon, as a lot of third worlders are migrating to the continent. Things are going to drastically change in a matter of two or three decades.


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June 30, 2015, 09:33:49 AM
 #13

It is estimated that there are some 1,000,000 illegal firearms currently circulating in the United Kingdom, compared to 400,000 legally held rifles and pistols. That measures to around 20 illegal guns for every 1,000 people. A few years ago, the Guardian published an article on how easy it is to obtain an illegal firearm in the United Kingdom.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/30/ukcrime1

And these people want to concentrate on kitchen knives and baseball bats.  Grin
"Save a  Life–Surrender Your Knife” Program doesn't work.As Knife is a part regular day-to-day use.It is used to cut vegetables,fruits,etc.
Knife used by kids to cut cake on their birthday .Knife doesn't farm anyone untill it used in right manner.
Inspite of "Knife" their should be programe on "Surrender your Gun-To save life" Sad

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bryant.coleman
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June 30, 2015, 09:55:32 AM
 #14

Inspite of "Knife" their should be programe on "Surrender your Gun-To save life" Sad

In the United Kingdom, it is almost impossible to obtain the necessary permits and license to own a fire-arm, as a de facto ban on gun ownership is in place. Less than 3% of the adults in the UK own a fire-arm. And that is the reason why the government is apprehending knives and baseball bats now. Next in the line will be screw drivers, kitchen forks.etc.


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oHnK
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June 30, 2015, 10:09:39 AM
 #15

Violent people will try to find a way to harm and kill. It's very hard to stop them.

Crime cannot be totally eradicated it can only be minimized.

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June 30, 2015, 10:32:41 AM
 #16

Their next marketing campaign will be "Become a survivor, give up your screw driver!".

...once I've been questioned by security guards about my screw drivers... eventually the local IT guys explained to them that I'm going to be unable to install some much needed networking gear into their rack without a screw driver.

I'm just wondering when I have to surrender my shoe laces, ties, belts and network cables  as these are all suitable to kill someone... not to mention my car... Smiley

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June 30, 2015, 11:31:04 AM
 #17

Violent people will try to find a way to harm and kill. It's very hard to stop them.
Crime cannot be totally eradicated it can only be minimized.

Violent crimes can only be eradicated if the law enforcement is up to the mark. The rate of violent crime is highest in countries where the possession of guns is banned. For example, Sweden and Norway are having one of the highest rates of violent rape.  The main reason for this is lax punishment for violent crime. An example here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1103271.0


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July 01, 2015, 10:23:41 AM
 #18

so first guns are the issue now knives, what next baseball bats ?
In united kingdom,crimes are at the high rate .It is designed to raise awareness of knife crime and encourage the surrender of dangerous weapons.”
Since the UK’s gun ban – with knife murders spiking drastically. Smiley

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July 01, 2015, 01:46:00 PM
 #19

so first guns are the issue now knives, what next baseball bats ?
In united kingdom,crimes are at the high rate .It is designed to raise awareness of knife crime and encourage the surrender of dangerous weapons.”
Since the UK’s gun ban – with knife murders spiking drastically. Smiley

And if the UK ban knife, the villains will use baseball bat. Hey, I think they won't obey the rules by government, then they still using a gun to act. Actually I guess the number of crimes can't be decreased just because government banned one of their weapons. They will use anything to rob people.

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July 01, 2015, 01:48:34 PM
 #20

so first guns are the issue now knives, what next baseball bats ?
In united kingdom,crimes are at the high rate .It is designed to raise awareness of knife crime and encourage the surrender of dangerous weapons.”
Since the UK’s gun ban – with knife murders spiking drastically. Smiley

And if the UK ban knife, the villains will use baseball bat. Hey, I think they won't obey the rules by government, then they still using a gun to act. Actually I guess the number of crimes can't be decreased just because government banned one of their weapons. They will use anything to rob people.


It seems gun control does not work.


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