Grexit

[bryant.coleman]

Sounds like the vibe is the public will vote yes on the referendum.  So no grexit just higher taxes and whatever else they impose.

Right now, the YES camp is ahead of NO, by some 10 points or so. Tsiparas is vigorously campaigning for a NO vote. That said, some 20% of the voters are not decided, and they can potentially swing the results. I am still hopeful that some last minute deal will be reached before July 5th, thereby avoiding the need for a referendum.

[1715030355]

1715030355

[1715030355]

1715030355

[pereira4]

saw it on cnn it was a last minute bail out, they still have to meet the European central bank

Bailout? It has been rejected by Eurogroup. That is why the Greeks are going ahead with the referendum, on whether they should implement even tougher austerity measures or not. 

And regarding the default, it has been confirmed by Tsiparas that no payment will be made before the deadline (30th June). The referendum is scheduled for 5th July, and only after that date they will make the decision about the payment.

It seems Greece are never able to pay back on time and always ask for bailout! It cannot be like this forever! But it seems they fall in this dilema, creditors have to extend the loan and bailout Greece otherwise Greece will default!

What cannot be forever is pretending that they could pay, they or any other country. No country can ever pay their debt back so who cares. I would ask for bailout too, you are fucked anyway so at least go down with some dignity.

[dinofelis]

I have been screaming here for the last 2 weeks or so about the need to restructure the Greek debt, but no one is willing to listen to me.

They already got a 50% cut on all private debt (all bond holders lost half of their value, whether banks or private persons).
The only requirement was to have a positive balance before interests or loan paybacks.  They didn't manage.

The only way the troika will get (at least a part of) their money back is by restructuring the Greek debt. If the Greek debt is restructured, the local economy will get a boost, thereby increasing the tax revenues. As a result, the Greeks will be able to payback at least a part of their debt.

The Greek state doesn't actually have a debt problem, they have a deficit problem.  80% of state spending is on retirement and on public servant salaries and other allowances. 

The point is not so much that the EU wants its money back.  The point is moral hazard.  Greece is small and a few billions could be thrown at it without most EU citizens noticing.  But if Greece gets this deal, then why did Spain, Ireland and Portugal make such efforts ?  Then why wouldn't Italy also go back to some serious deficit spending ?  Hey, why wouldn't even France get its debt restructured ?
One cannot be nice to Greece because it has a totally ill structured state budget doing systematic deficit spending, and ask others to apply severe restructuration.

[criptix]

I have been screaming here for the last 2 weeks or so about the need to restructure the Greek debt, but no one is willing to listen to me.

They already got a 50% cut on all private debt (all bond holders lost half of their value, whether banks or private persons).
The only requirement was to have a positive balance before interests or loan paybacks.  They didn't manage.

The only way the troika will get (at least a part of) their money back is by restructuring the Greek debt. If the Greek debt is restructured, the local economy will get a boost, thereby increasing the tax revenues. As a result, the Greeks will be able to payback at least a part of their debt.

The Greek state doesn't actually have a debt problem, they have a deficit problem.  80% of state spending is on retirement and on public servant salaries and other allowances. 

The point is not so much that the EU wants its money back.  The point is moral hazard.  Greece is small and a few billions could be thrown at it without most EU citizens noticing.  But if Greece gets this deal, then why did Spain, Ireland and Portugal make such efforts ?  Then why wouldn't Italy also go back to some serious deficit spending ?  Hey, why wouldn't even France get its debt restructured ?
One cannot be nice to Greece because it has a totally ill structured state budget doing systematic deficit spending, and ask others to apply severe restructuration.

Totaly agree the main problem is broken trust and a lot of void promises.

This will not only be a huge hit to greece but the eurozone overall.

[Realpra]

Is there anyone Greek on this forum/thread?

If banks are closed tomorrow its a golden opportunity for Bitcoin.

I believe my product can enable the masses to easily use Bitcoin, please PM me if you want a free shipment to distribute.

[catch.me.if.you.can]

Grexit , Brexit and Texasexit... 

[yayayo]

Finally the communists lost their connection to the European placenta. Free rewards for mere embryonic existence have been depleted. Now it's time to grow up and take some responsibility.

I'm pretty sure that in less than a year, Greece will have a new government...

The Greek debt is not sustainable because the interest on it is super high and compounded..It has to be restructured, like the allies did for Germany after ww2 and wiped off a shit load of it that's how the German economy took off. Basically the Germans got rewarded for causing the the 2nd world war and the deaths of millions..I like Germans don't get me wrong, Greeks can learn from the discipline of German culture but Greeks should get the same respite as the Germans then that is fair play.. THE EU ruined the Greek economy, along with corrupt and overspending Greek politicians so those politicians that ruined the country should be put on trial as criminals and the Greek debt restructured first..

Sorry to say this, but I haven't encountered such a huge load of BS for a long time... Greece got Euro 240 Billions plus 90 Billions on emergency aid alone! That's more than 30k per capita! If you ask me, the EU (and esp. Germany that pays the biggest slice) has been overly generous with Greece. Ireland and Portugal also had to rely on aid, but these countries were willing to do something and did reforms. Greece did mostly nothing.

ya.ya.yo!

[larsson]

How anyone can keep more money than absolutely necessary in a greek bank at this time is completely beyond me. The way I see it, it is virtually a certainty that there will be capital controls and/or deposit confiscation in the near future.

[bitcollins85]

How anyone can keep more money than absolutely necessary in a greek bank at this time is completely beyond me. The way I see it, it is virtually a certainty that there will be capital controls and/or deposit confiscation in the near future.

I agree why would you keep your money in a bank right now based on the fact that 'they might not close on Monday'. If you withdraw you lose nothing. If you don't withdraw you could lose an unknown amount. There is only one logical choice.

[thaaanos]

How anyone can keep more money than absolutely necessary in a greek bank at this time is completely beyond me. The way I see it, it is virtually a certainty that there will be capital controls and/or deposit confiscation in the near future.

I agree why would you keep your money in a bank right now based on the fact that 'they might not close on Monday'. If you withdraw you lose nothing. If you don't withdraw you could lose an unknown amount. There is only one logical choice.

I am keeping money (savings) in the bank because we need working banks instead of paper cash.
Participation comes with responsibilities. True for every system either political or financial

edit: FYI I'll vote NO, and if it comes to it vote yes on Grexit

[chryspano]

Sounds like the vibe is the public will vote yes on the referendum.  So no grexit just higher taxes and whatever else they impose.

Right now, the YES camp is ahead of NO, by some 10 points or so. Tsiparas is vigorously campaigning for a NO vote. That said, some 20% of the voters are not decided, and they can potentially swing the results. I am still hopeful that some last minute deal will be reached before July 5th, thereby avoiding the need for a referendum.

What are you talking about guys?



http://www.altsantiri.gr/

"No" has clearly the advandage but we have to take in account that the majority of those that visit this site and voted in that poll support tsipras. In any case my estimation is that "No" will be the winner. Media in Greece have run amok, they do everything they can to sway the balance in favor of (YES) and their corrupt masters...

[bryant.coleman]

How anyone can keep more money than absolutely necessary in a greek bank at this time is completely beyond me. The way I see it, it is virtually a certainty that there will be capital controls and/or deposit confiscation in the near future.

A haircut seems to be quite probable, but as of now, we don't know for sure whether it will happen or not. Also, I believe that if a savings account haircut actually occurs in Greece, then the confiscation rate will be much lower than that was in Cyprus (in the Cyprus haircut, the depositors lost some 85% of all their savings).

[c789]

What I can't figure out is why the price of BTC hasn't taken off. We all saw what happened during the Cypress fiasco, and that happened without a lot of warning. The talk of the Grexit has been going on for weeks and we've only seen a modest increase in the BTC price.

BTC has had weeks to become attractive to Greeks but it doesn't seem to have caught on. Why is that? I can only guess that they are so deluded with a socialist mindset that they really expect someone else to bail them out yet again, so they haven't turned to BTC. What do you think?

[bryant.coleman]

BTC has had weeks to become attractive to Greeks but it doesn't seem to have caught on. Why is that? I can only guess that they are so deluded with a socialist mindset that they really expect someone else to bail them out yet again, so they haven't turned to BTC. What do you think?

The Bitcoin trade volume has been quite low in Greece for the last few months, and I don't think that more than a thousand people out there use Bitcoin actively right now. They are storing their wealth mostly in the form of Euro banknotes, with some opting for other options such as bullion. In their opinion, bitcoin is too risky.

[V for Varoufakis]

I will vote "NO' for revenge.

[qiwoman2]

How anyone can keep more money than absolutely necessary in a greek bank at this time is completely beyond me. The way I see it, it is virtually a certainty that there will be capital controls and/or deposit confiscation in the near future.

I agree why would you keep your money in a bank right now based on the fact that 'they might not close on Monday'. If you withdraw you lose nothing. If you don't withdraw you could lose an unknown amount. There is only one logical choice.

I am keeping money (savings) in the bank because we need working banks instead of paper cash.
Participation comes with responsibilities. True for every system either political or financial

edit: FYI I'll vote NO, and if it comes to it vote yes on Grexit

I am Greek but live outside of Greece as I was born a Brit..am in Cyprus now but all i want to say is that if I were in Greece I would vote no myself. The situation is far more complicated than a lot of number crunchers here want to point out..If TSIPRAS AND SYRIZA leave then it will open the door to more corruption and bad governance that got Greece herein the first place. They all blame this government for the emss but it was the previous governments that created all this shit in the first place. The past stupid governments shouldn't have bought those high risk ninja mortgage derivatives from wall st, also they shouldn't have just been yes men lackeys to every EU demand.. Both the U.S and the EU want SYRIZA government to fall because they don't want this kind of leftist government in power that is trying to change the status quo..if the Greek people vote yes and don't realise what is happening to them then they are truly f*cked .. Sorry fro my french, but if they vote NO at least they go down with some self respect and dignity and then if things get too bad they can get off their butts and rebuild the country from scratch. This is why I even built my own crypto currency with the hope that one day I may create a whole new fully functioning economic system where every one is thriving...not just the 1% Elite.

[bryant.coleman]

I am Greek but live outside of Greece as I was born a Brit..am in Cyprus now but all i want to say is that if I were in Greece I would vote no myself. The situation is far more complicated than a lot of number crunchers here want to point out..If TSIPRAS AND SYRIZA leave then it will open the door to more corruption and bad governance that got Greece herein the first place. They all blame this government for the emss but it was the previous governments that created all this shit in the first place. The past stupid governments shouldn't have bought those high risk ninja mortgage derivatives from wall st, also they shouldn't have just been yes men lackeys to every EU demand.. Both the U.S and the EU want SYRIZA government to fall because they don't want this kind of leftist government in power that is trying to change the status quo..if the Greek people vote yes and don't realise what is happening to them then they are truly f*cked .. Sorry fro my french, but if they vote NO at least they go down with some self respect and dignity and then if things get too bad they can get off their butts and rebuild the country from scratch. This is why I even built my own crypto currency with the hope that one day I may create a whole new fully functioning economic system where every one is thriving...not just the 1% Elite.

Completely agree with your arguments. Right now, Tsiparas and SYRIZA are the only things which are standing in between the troika and the complete slavery of the Greek people. Recently Tsiparas has taken some pro-Russian and anti-troika decisions, so I can undestand why the Americans and the Germans want to topple him.

[qiwoman2]

I am Greek but live outside of Greece as I was born a Brit..am in Cyprus now but all i want to say is that if I were in Greece I would vote no myself. The situation is far more complicated than a lot of number crunchers here want to point out..If TSIPRAS AND SYRIZA leave then it will open the door to more corruption and bad governance that got Greece herein the first place. They all blame this government for the emss but it was the previous governments that created all this shit in the first place. The past stupid governments shouldn't have bought those high risk ninja mortgage derivatives from wall st, also they shouldn't have just been yes men lackeys to every EU demand.. Both the U.S and the EU want SYRIZA government to fall because they don't want this kind of leftist government in power that is trying to change the status quo..if the Greek people vote yes and don't realise what is happening to them then they are truly f*cked .. Sorry fro my french, but if they vote NO at least they go down with some self respect and dignity and then if things get too bad they can get off their butts and rebuild the country from scratch. This is why I even built my own crypto currency with the hope that one day I may create a whole new fully functioning economic system where every one is thriving...not just the 1% Elite.

Completely agree with your arguments. Right now, Tsiparas and SYRIZA are the only things which are standing in between the troika and the complete slavery of the Greek people. Recently Tsiparas has taken some pro-Russian and anti-troika decisions, so I can undestand why the Americans and the Germans want to topple him.

It's obvious and we can see it in the daily TV Channels, the powers that be want Greece to be subdued and stay in the western Bloc because that's where they say its geopolitical position lies since after the second world war and Greek civil war. This time Tsipras is the threat and even though he has categorically stated He wants a future INSIDE THE EURO AND THE EUROZONE, both the EU and the opposition parties in Greece are trying to turn this referendum into a yes or no vote for EU or Grexit to try and confuse the simple minded folk who are going to the polls next week. I have been watching from Antenna to Skai, each channel when they have those political discussions daily and you see it in the corporate agendas how they are blatantly trying to hoodwink and misinform the Greek Public.

So if you guys want to vote YES TO A 300 EURO A MONTH PENSION, for a 23% V.AT rate for the Islands and what not, No subsidies for the Agricultural sector and most of the defense budget wiped out so we can just let the Albanians come in and take Northern Eprius and the Turks come and cream off a few Islands (I have no personal bad intentions here towards Albanians and Turksm I was actually married to a Turk and love all People, this is just the political agenda of the FEW ELITE),then go ahead and YES..I will cry if I see that happen.. The fear mongering has to stop and Greeks need to stand up and be brave again.

[yayayo]

I will vote "NO' for revenge.

Revenge for what? For not getting money for free?

Apart from that it will not be revenge it will be a great relief for the rest of the Eurozone, because then it's finally clear that the Greek people do not want to stay and therefore do not need more support.

Hopefully this outright childish comedy comes to an end soon.

ya.ya.yo!

[elite3000]

Greeks will awaken in the coming days to the sad realisation that the money they thought they had, in their banks, is really not theirs at all.