Please list arguments against the idea of taking away Gavins' alert keys

[hund]

so even if he used them to send false messages the community could simply inform each other that there's no real problem.

Don't you think it'll be a total mess of yn alert popping up in the wallet and half the community said 'ignore it' and the other halve said 'don't ignore it'? I think this would be heaps of stress for the noobs or casual users. Also many would go falsely upgrade without checking forum first and thus creating more chaos with them ending up supporting a software which they never would in their right minds just because an abuse of the alert system.

I like the idea of containing a lot of possible damage and confusion before it happens and also end the populism end endless debate in the same stroke. I think doing this could help restore confidence in Bitcoin.

[Elwar]

Worst and most screwed up trolling i've seen in a while ...
on second comment: satoshi could be dead

So you're saying the "million bitcoins" Satoshi supposedly owns will never be spent?

That would send the price to the moon and all trolls that keep bringing it up would have no argument other than hoping and wishing that he is still alive.

If Satoshi is dead then luckily he gave Gavin the alert keys so they can still be used in an emergency like when we had to fork in 2013.

[SebastianJu]

Forking away... sounds like another fearbringer to the community.

Though i see what you fear. I see the risk it being misused.

I wonder what could be done in case its really misused. Will it be possible to overwrite his alerts? If its possible to overwrite them fast then i believe it wont be a big problem. Awareness about the message will happen fast and countermeasures can be taken.

[Elwar]

Forking away... sounds like another fearbringer to the community.

Though i see what you fear. I see the risk it being misused.

I wonder what could be done in case its really misused. Will it be possible to overwrite his alerts? If its possible to overwrite them fast then i believe it wont be a big problem. Awareness about the message will happen fast and countermeasures can be taken.

Um...the alerts are just a feature of the Bitcoin Core wallet. If abused, a few lines of code are deleted and a new wallet released. Or you use another wallet without the alert message.

It's basically a way to send a message to all of the wallets in case of an emergency. Like what happened in 2013 where we had to have a hard fork immediately.

[PolarPoint]

Satoshi gave the alert keys to Gavin and theymos. I do not know they have the same "keys" or different "key" for different individual. I assume the alert key is one key and all holders have the same key.
(Any verified info on the "key" or "keys")

If core devs fork away Gavin's key, are they also forking away Satoshi and theymos' key? This surely isn't the right direction to go.

[croTek4]

People who create threads like this are bad actors in our community and should not be taken seriously.

[SebastianJu]

Forking away... sounds like another fearbringer to the community.

Though i see what you fear. I see the risk it being misused.

I wonder what could be done in case its really misused. Will it be possible to overwrite his alerts? If its possible to overwrite them fast then i believe it wont be a big problem. Awareness about the message will happen fast and countermeasures can be taken.

Um...the alerts are just a feature of the Bitcoin Core wallet. If abused, a few lines of code are deleted and a new wallet released. Or you use another wallet without the alert message.

It's basically a way to send a message to all of the wallets in case of an emergency. Like what happened in 2013 where we had to have a hard fork immediately.

I know that its a feature of bitcoin core. The worst case scenario would be that, dont ask me why, gavin would use his key sending a message like "Caution. This wallet will stop working tomorrow, you wont be able to access your bitcoins anymore until you download bitcoin xt". No, i dont want to explain why he should do that. Though i believe thats what the op is fearing. Even when a new wallet gets released then probably a lot of nodes were lost already. They wont get to see another possible alert.

[Elwar]

People who create threads like this are bad actors in our community and should not be taken seriously.

Most of the block size threads are alt coin losers trying to make it look like Bitcoin has some inherent flaw.

The block size limit was added as a band-aid fix against spam and can easily be changed as needed.

End of story.

[forlackofabettername]

No fork required. Alert keys can only send messages, not inhibit a wallet's function, so even if he used them to send false messages the community could simply inform each other that there's no real problem.

There should be no forks for any reason besides a real emergency. Forks are the nuclear option. Forking to change Bitcoin = centralization

Forking github, not the coin, man.

Satoshi gave the alert keys to Gavin and theymos. I do not know they have the same "keys" or different "key" for different individual. I assume the alert key is one key and all holders have the same key.
(Any verified info on the "key" or "keys")

If core devs fork away Gavin's key, are they also forking away Satoshi and theymos' key? This surely isn't the right direction to go.

This comment is the only valid concern i can identify. This would also be a concern to me. This would of course need to be adressed.

I know that its a feature of bitcoin core. The worst case scenario would be that, dont ask me why, gavin would use his key sending a message like "Caution. This wallet will stop working tomorrow, you wont be able to access your bitcoins anymore until you download bitcoin xt". No, i dont want to explain why he should do that. Though i believe thats what the op is fearing.

Exactly. This and i feel blackmailed and distorted by Gavin and personally would wish he would be excluded from everything 'Bitcoin' so i can feel safe again storing my hard earned money in btc again.
If he keeps being accepted as "bitcoin dev" by the community i am sorry, i wouldn't invest a dime anymore into this.


.................


ok, guys. One single valid point against the proposal raised so far... well not even against it in case we can sort that thing out somehow. (could send new alert keys to satoshi known email adress and theymos could also get the new key, why not?)

No veto or serious counterargument raised so far to the proposal. Al i get is ad hominem. Looking good this far ...  

[forlackofabettername]

By the way: since Gavin propagates his software outside devteam and BIP i don't see why he would even need to have alertkeys for core? He should have to choose if he wishes to hold alertkeys for core or xt - i don't think he can hold the keys to both or at least it doesn't look fair to me.
Just imagine all of the core devs start to propagate alternative clients that would fork the network when adopted?!
I don't think the community can accept his behaviour and he certainly needs to be excluded for the sake of investors confidence alone. He should release shitcoins and make hostile takeover in shitcoins because i don't think he's mature enough for BTC.

[MicroGuy]

By the way: since Gavin propagates his software outside devteam and BIP i don't see why he would even need to have alertkeys for core? He should have to choose if he wishes to hold alertkeys for core or xt - i don't think he can hold the keys to both or at least it doesn't look fair to me.
Just imagine all of the core devs start to propagate alternative clients that would fork the network when adopted?!
I don't think the community can accept his behaviour and he certainly needs to be excluded for the sake of investors confidence alone. He should release shitcoins and make hostile takeover in shitcoins because i don't think he's mature enough for BTC.

This makes sense to me. If someone holds the alert key he should be united with Bitcoin's Core Team.

Imagine a rogue Microsoft employee retaining the ability to push out update notices to every single windows desktop.

[blablaace]

one person should not have such power over bitcoin .. what if he sent out the alert 'Bitcoin is dying, jump ship!'  There are a lot of morons who would sell off , driving price down!

[Elwar]

By the way: since Gavin propagates his software outside devteam and BIP i don't see why he would even need to have alertkeys for core? He should have to choose if he wishes to hold alertkeys for core or xt - i don't think he can hold the keys to both or at least it doesn't look fair to me.
Just imagine all of the core devs start to propagate alternative clients that would fork the network when adopted?!
I don't think the community can accept his behaviour and he certainly needs to be excluded for the sake of investors confidence alone. He should release shitcoins and make hostile takeover in shitcoins because i don't think he's mature enough for BTC.

The alert keys for core and xt are the same. XT is the same as Core except the added feature that when there is a consensus agreement, then the block size will increase.

Are you against the consensus of Bitcoin users agreeing on an upgrade? Or would you rather leave that to a centralized group of people?

[Elwar]

Exactly. This and i feel blackmailed and distorted by Gavin and personally would wish he would be excluded from everything 'Bitcoin' so i can feel safe again storing my hard earned money in btc again.
If he keeps being accepted as "bitcoin dev" by the community i am sorry, i wouldn't invest a dime anymore into this.  

Ahh I see now...

Someone sold too low and now wants the price to drop again to buy back in. 

FUD about some Gavin conspiracy won't bring down the price. Buy in now, the bear market is over.

[Denker]

Oh my god another idiotic not needed bs thread. Pure FUD from OP here!

[Lauda]

This makes sense to me. If someone holds the alert key he should be united with Bitcoin's Core Team.

Imagine a rogue Microsoft employee retaining the ability to push out update notices to every single windows desktop.

This doesn't apply exactly. He can't push out updates to anyone, what he can do is make an alert. I don't see it being that dangerous nor do I think that Gavin is going to abuse his power in this case.

Ahh I see now...

Someone sold too low and now wants the price to drop again to buy back in.  

FUD about some Gavin conspiracy won't bring down the price. Buy in now, the bear market is over.

We've seen this countless times. A group of people are trying to undermine Gavin, however that isn't going to really have an effect.

[hund]

This makes sense to me. If someone holds the alert key he should be united with Bitcoin's Core Team.

Imagine a rogue Microsoft employee retaining the ability to push out update notices to every single windows desktop.

This doesn't apply exactly. He can't push out updates to anyone, what he can do is make an alert. I don't see it being that dangerous nor do I think that Gavin is going to abuse his power in this case.

Ahh I see now...

Someone sold too low and now wants the price to drop again to buy back in.  

FUD about some Gavin conspiracy won't bring down the price. Buy in now, the bear market is over.

We've seen this countless times. A group of people are trying to undermine Gavin, however that isn't going to really have an effect.

What's more important? Gavin or Bitcoin? I think it's only natural that when Gavin tries to undermine Bitcoin and hurts peoples' investement with this thing giving rise to fear, uncertainty and doubt, he certainly won't earn more respect with that. I don't care if Gavin is undermined but i do care if Bitcoin is undermined (by Gavin in this case). I think Bitcoin would benefit from Gavin taking some distance to it. A lot of people are actually pretty sick of him.

[Elwar]

What's more important? Gavin or Bitcoin? I think it's only natural that when Gavin tries to undermine Bitcoin and hurts peoples' investement with this thing giving rise to fear, uncertainty and doubt, he certainly won't earn more respect with that. I don't care if Gavin is undermined but i do care if Bitcoin is undermined (by Gavin in this case). I think Bitcoin would benefit from Gavin taking some distance to it. A lot of people are actually pretty sick of him.

source?

[turvarya]

@OP
Please, just leave the Bitcoin space. Nobody cares.
How many stupid "Gavin is a bad person"-threads, which don't add anything to a constructive discussion, do we need?

[LiteCoinGuy]

How about this proposal:
They actually ask Gavin about it? There is no reason to be waging unneeded wars, hopefully the peaceful method is going to work.

Asking Gavin already happened. He does not react. So that's that.

Shouldn't be preceived as 'war'. We're just looking for a consensus which in case it can be found is likely the opposite of war as it would put all this upheaval in the community to rest and we could go back to fight bulls vs bears instead of Gavincoin vs Core which i think everyone prefers.
I'm just proposing the most simple and obvious solution to the blocksize debate and i think this proposal should be absolutely included for the options to resolve the "great bitcoin blocksize crisis"

90% are ok with gavins plan. there is already huge consensus.