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Author Topic: 2012-09-19 TheDailyBell.com - Bitcoin Could Be An NWO's Conspiracy  (Read 1208 times)
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September 18, 2012, 08:37:43 PM
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So says The Daily Bell today:
http://www.thedailybell.com/4311/The-Pure-Fiat-Con-Every-Transaction-Available-for-Official-Scrutiny-and-Thats-Just-the-Point
They find particularly fishy the traceability.
Anyone with logic or factual arguments to prove that is impossible is invited to post them here (or there).

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September 18, 2012, 09:01:51 PM
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So says The Daily Bell today:
http://www.thedailybell.com/4311/The-Pure-Fiat-Con-Every-Transaction-Available-for-Official-Scrutiny-and-Thats-Just-the-Point
They find particularly fishy the traceability.
Anyone with logic or factual arguments to prove that is impossible is invited to post them here (or there).

I'm not sure it is worth spending time reading this.

Can someone confirm that it is just stupid?
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September 18, 2012, 09:05:31 PM
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Not sure if it matters but those damn thieves still get away with the coins.

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September 18, 2012, 09:14:15 PM
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I'm done trying to educate the "opposition". I've been trying for a while. Either they'll get it or they won't. When they do get it, they'll be buying from us.

"The synonym of usury is ruin." -Samuel Johnson
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September 18, 2012, 09:19:47 PM
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I'm done trying to educate the "opposition". I've been trying for a while. Either they'll get it or they won't. When they do get it, they'll be buying from us.

You know you might want to reconsider because not everyone who reads an article or a forum post comments on it and I think it's important that if you can you represent the truth so other readers can get a chance to be exposed to it. Don't try to persuade your "opposition" try to persuade the undecideds Wink

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

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September 18, 2012, 09:30:14 PM
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<snip>
I'm not sure it is worth spending time reading this.

Can someone confirm that it is just stupid?
Confirmed.

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September 18, 2012, 09:33:37 PM
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Quote
Here's something recently posted at Reddit:
Anything in Tor is completely traceable.
Someone on the internet said this. It has to be true!  Cheesy
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September 18, 2012, 11:21:02 PM
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So says The Daily Bell today:
http://www.thedailybell.com/4311/The-Pure-Fiat-Con-Every-Transaction-Available-for-Official-Scrutiny-and-Thats-Just-the-Point
They find particularly fishy the traceability.
Anyone with logic or factual arguments to prove that is impossible is invited to post them here (or there).

I read it. All of it. Judge Posner once complained about law students being the ones who wrote the intellectual journals of that branch of knowledge because unlike professors they were not knowledgeable enough to know whether they were standing in a pile of crap or not.

So likewise I think the author of this article has facile knowledge of the subject and I found the economic analysis weak. Compounded was the conflation and detours in the writing; the organization is what you would find from a ferret on meth.

The argument is thus: TOR and Bitcoin are bad because some actor with enough resources could compromise privacy and track everything.

Quote
TOR IS COMPLETELY TRACEABLE

Any low-latency mixnet is. There's no two ways about it. Anyone who can observe a sufficiently large part of the internet over time can correlate your traffic to that of the server and get a pretty good idea that it's you.

....

This (Bitcoin) is a forensic financial investigator's dream situation.

So let us assume for the sake of argument that both TOR and Bitcoin could be tracked if there were enough resources available to a single actor. The assertion likely fails on economic arguments. This is because the cost of privacy is so low while the return on investment from extortion to breach that privacy is so negative.

For example, you could be zipping bitcoins all around the network from random public WIFI spaces. Sure, a forensic financial investor maybe could track all of them if the budget was large enough. But the truth is that even with government they do not have unlimited resources and departments are constrained by budgets. Thus, resources have to be allocated.

The problem for these organizations is they cannot allocate efficiently because they lack a pricing mechanism. Thus they allocate inefficiently which results in wealth destruction. The less effective their pricing mechanism the more wealth they destroy which results in less wealth available so the less they can track unless they can acquire additional wealth some other way to fund the investigation. The free market is not going to pay a forensic financial investigator $25,000 to only track, not necessarily confiscate!, 3 BTC ($12.25 exchange rate). But government will!

Both TOR and Bitcoins are tremendous force multipliers in that they greatly decrease the cost of privacy while simultaneously exponentially increasing the cost of breach thus causing the ROI from extortion to quickly go massively negative.

Perhaps The Daily Bell concedes that these 'elitist families' have 'trillions' of wealth to 'track' everything with. But I know a few forensic financial investigators who will track some bitcoins for some of those trillions. Maybe they could form a forensic financial investigators union so they can charge more for their labor yet track less bitcoins. Sure, they may be able to hire hoards of investigators and track a lot of bitcoins for a long time but unless they can somehow acquire more wealth to continue the escapade then eventually they will run out of funds to pay forensic financial investigators. Coupled with the wealth transfer effect of Bitcoin and the net worth of elitist families could decline extremely quickly particularly if they continue funding such hobbies of compulsive control and surveillance.

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September 19, 2012, 12:05:52 AM
 #9

@ sunnakar: nice post!

I'm done trying to educate the "opposition". I've been trying for a while. Either they'll get it or they won't. When they do get it, they'll be buying from us.

You know you might want to reconsider because not everyone who reads an article or a forum post comments on it and I think it's important that if you can you represent the truth so other readers can get a chance to be exposed to it. Don't try to persuade your "opposition" try to persuade the undecideds Wink

I think Mr. D. Bell doesnt fully understand the concept of bitcoin (left alone the world order) and thus thinks bitcoin is a bad idea. If he would understand, he may become a supporter of it, unlike in his unknowing distrust.

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September 19, 2012, 12:09:00 AM
 #10

This is really too bad.

The Daily Bell is often quite good, a highly respected libertarian blog.

Sad.

This is not some pseudoeconomic post-modern Libertarian cult, it's an un-led, crowd-sourced mega startup organized around mutual self-interest where problems, whether of the theoretical or purely practical variety, are treated as temporary and, ultimately, solvable.
Censorship of e-gold was easy. Censorship of Bitcoin will be… entertaining.
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September 19, 2012, 02:12:32 AM
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Bitcoin itself is just part of a larger questionable series of facilities based around pure fiat currencies that are being sponsored by the UN and were developed in conjunction with the power elite's Fabian socialists.

Try saying that out loud without lulzing.
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September 19, 2012, 02:21:37 AM
 #12

You know you might want to reconsider because not everyone who reads an article or a forum post comments on it and I think it's important that if you can you represent the truth so other readers can get a chance to be exposed to it. Don't try to persuade your "opposition" try to persuade the undecideds Wink

But gatekeepers will be gatekeepers and at a certain point it's useless to throw one's self against the gate anymore. I'd rather spend my time building my house rather than trying to convince them to let me into theirs.

"The synonym of usury is ruin." -Samuel Johnson
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September 19, 2012, 03:04:44 AM
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This is really too bad.

The Daily Bell is often quite good, a highly respected libertarian blog.

If you do not comprehend or understand an XOR cipher function, Elliptic Curve Digital Signature Algorithm and some basics of Classless Inter-Domain Routing then it may be best to sit down, shut-up, listen to some people who do understand, ask what questions you can formulate based on your limited understanding, do some study and then try to form an opinion based on facts instead of facile intelligence where one thinks they have a talent for monetary science, economics and finance but do not see the need to undertake the hard labor of learning how such arguments are constructed when applied to the Bitcoin Protocol. After all, do you want to be the guy that asks, “How big is yellow?” or worse ignorantly pronounce the statement, “Yellow is really big.”

Why would anyone continue respecting someone who loudly proclaims yellow is really big?

As more people come to understand that yellow is a color not a thing then they are better able to discern the logic and arguments. Then those who proclaim yellow is really big will not stay highly respected because their arguments are poor. Remember, ideas can only be overcome by other ideas.

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September 19, 2012, 03:30:39 AM
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Bitcoin is a useful tool to judge who is a likely honeypot giving up their customers data to the surveillance state  Smiley

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September 19, 2012, 03:34:52 AM
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This is really too bad.

The Daily Bell is often quite good, a highly respected libertarian blog.

If you do not comprehend or understand an XOR cipher function, Elliptic Curve Digital Signature Algorithm and some basics of Classless Inter-Domain Routing then it may be best to sit down, shut-up, listen to some people who do understand, ask what questions you can formulate based on your limited understanding, do some study and then try to form an opinion based on facts instead of facile intelligence where one thinks they have a talent for monetary science, economics and finance but do not see the need to undertake the hard labor of learning how such arguments are constructed when applied to the Bitcoin Protocol. After all, do you want to be the guy that asks, “How big is yellow?” or worse ignorantly pronounce the statement, “Yellow is really big.”

Why would anyone continue respecting someone who loudly proclaims yellow is really big?

As more people come to understand that yellow is a color not a thing then they are better able to discern the logic and arguments. Then those who proclaim yellow is really big will not stay highly respected because their arguments are poor. Remember, ideas can only be overcome by other ideas.

Oh, I completely agree Trace.  I still find these divisions regrettable.

This is not some pseudoeconomic post-modern Libertarian cult, it's an un-led, crowd-sourced mega startup organized around mutual self-interest where problems, whether of the theoretical or purely practical variety, are treated as temporary and, ultimately, solvable.
Censorship of e-gold was easy. Censorship of Bitcoin will be… entertaining.
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September 19, 2012, 07:32:03 AM
 #16

@sunnakar: your posts are right on spot, hat off!

Only, I'm unable to understand why you speak about xor cipher function in respect to Bitcoin, since it uses none (as far as I know).

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September 19, 2012, 07:42:59 AM
 #17

Only, I'm unable to understand why you speak about xor cipher function in respect to Bitcoin, since it uses none (as far as I know).

Precisely. I think XOR's taste good.

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September 19, 2012, 11:34:43 AM
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After all, do you want to be the guy that asks, “How big is yellow?” or worse ignorantly pronounce the statement, “Yellow is really big.”
Excellent analogy.



Why would anyone continue respecting someone who loudly proclaims yellow is really big?
Because they are dumb and they need a leader to follow. Or they are getting paid a nice salary in the Fed or at a university to write articles with lots of high-falutin words like "quantitative", supporting the doctrine of "Big Yellow". Or they are terrified of being ridiculed or marginalised, as a wing nut because they dont believe yellow is really big.

(If I was going to make an adjective out of the word "quantity", I would say "quantitive" not "quantitative". I guess they put the extra syllable in there to make it sound more arcane.)
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