cbeast
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Activity: 1736
Merit: 1006
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
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September 19, 2012, 10:16:36 AM |
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We have that same risk with physical bitcoins.
there are no physical bitcoins. The term physical bitcoins refers to a method of using an offline storage medium for temporarily containing and masking the private key to a bitcoin address. Some devices are trustworthy enough for small amounts for them to be traded without online verification. |
Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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Once a transaction has 6 confirmations, it is extremely unlikely that an attacker without at least 50% of the network's computation power would be able to reverse it.
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Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
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barbarousrelic
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September 19, 2012, 10:45:59 AM |
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Use gold coins, preferably those under an ounce. Harder to drill, more work, less benefit, greater likelihood of getting caught than using 10 oz bars.
I am not 100% certain, but I would imagine that tungsten-filled coins would sound differently when dropped on a glass table than real gold coins.
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Do not waste your time debating whether Bitcoin can work. It does work.
"Early adopters will profit" is not a sufficient condition to classify something as a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. If it was, Apple and Microsoft stock are Ponzi schemes.
There is no such thing as "market manipulation." There is only buying and selling.
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fivemileshigh
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September 19, 2012, 11:08:20 AM |
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Use gold coins, preferably those under an ounce. Harder to drill, more work, less benefit, greater likelihood of getting caught than using 10 oz bars.
I am not 100% certain, but I would imagine that tungsten-filled coins would sound differently when dropped on a glass table than real gold coins.
I think up to 100gr goldbars are safe for the moment. All the filled bars in the pics so far have ben 500gr and up. |
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Luno
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September 19, 2012, 11:22:40 AM |
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If Tungsten ha higher specific gravity than Gold, they will have to mix The tungsten with something or the gold bar will be to dense!
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barbarousrelic
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September 19, 2012, 12:00:03 PM |
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Right. Gold is 19.30 g/cc Tungsten is 19.25 g/cc So we're looking at a difference of 0.26%. On a ten troy ounce gold bar that's 311.25*.0026 = 0.81 grams if the whole thing is tungsten. Since some of it is real gold, the bar will weigh roughly a half gram more than it is supposed to, on a 311 gram bar. What is the normal mass tolerance on a pamp suisse gold bar? |
Do not waste your time debating whether Bitcoin can work. It does work.
"Early adopters will profit" is not a sufficient condition to classify something as a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. If it was, Apple and Microsoft stock are Ponzi schemes.
There is no such thing as "market manipulation." There is only buying and selling.
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phatsphere
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September 19, 2012, 12:50:27 PM |
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Since some of it is real gold, the bar will weigh roughly a half gram more than it is supposed to, on a 311 gram bar.
well, if it says 311 gramm, it will weight 311 gramm. what they change is most likely the size! i.e. a fraction of a mm on a non-even surface (where the embossed numbers and letters are) is impossible to notice. therefore, one has to measure the actual volume, which is pretty hard. |
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Desolator
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September 19, 2012, 01:00:27 PM |
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I'm somewhat certain that when gold buyers buy gold, they actually use two electrical probes that measure the resistance and if it's too high, it's not pure gold or it's plated whatever. I suppose with that much thick surface gold or in the 2nd pic there, the electricity would simply travel around it in a significant enough level to not detect the tungsten. Anyone know?
Btw I opened up my BTC wallet and found just a note that said my bitcoins' kidneys were missing and they needed to go to the hospital ASAP!
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casascius
Mike Caldwell
VIP
Legendary
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Activity: 1386
Merit: 1136
The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)
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September 19, 2012, 01:17:17 PM |
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Bad news: I just checked one of my Bitcoins. I opened it up, and inside I actually found a LiteCoin!!! This is a serious problem. I'm worried if I check my other Bitcoins the same thing will happen :/ Should I tell Gavin?
This is actually possible on a Casascius Coin, where someone can add Litecoins to it, and has been done before. It is possible to compute the equivalent Litecoin address from the Bitcoin address with my Bitcoin Address Utility, and then it just uses the same private key. |
Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable. I never believe them. If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins. I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion. Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice. Don't keep coins online. Use paper or hardware wallets instead.
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barbarousrelic
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September 19, 2012, 01:17:39 PM |
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Since some of it is real gold, the bar will weigh roughly a half gram more than it is supposed to, on a 311 gram bar.
well, if it says 311 gramm, it will weight 311 gramm. what they change is most likely the size! i.e. a fraction of a mm on a non-even surface (where the embossed numbers and letters are) is impossible to notice. therefore, one has to measure the actual volume, which is pretty hard. But does Pamp Suisse guarantee that their bars are 10.00000000000000000000 troy ounces exactly? Surely there is a tolerance, such as + or - .001 troy ounces Or .01 troy ounces. |
Do not waste your time debating whether Bitcoin can work. It does work.
"Early adopters will profit" is not a sufficient condition to classify something as a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. If it was, Apple and Microsoft stock are Ponzi schemes.
There is no such thing as "market manipulation." There is only buying and selling.
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kjj
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1024
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September 19, 2012, 03:24:00 PM |
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Since some of it is real gold, the bar will weigh roughly a half gram more than it is supposed to, on a 311 gram bar.
well, if it says 311 gramm, it will weight 311 gramm. what they change is most likely the size! i.e. a fraction of a mm on a non-even surface (where the embossed numbers and letters are) is impossible to notice. therefore, one has to measure the actual volume, which is pretty hard. But does Pamp Suisse guarantee that their bars are 10.00000000000000000000 troy ounces exactly? Surely there is a tolerance, such as + or - .001 troy ounces Or .01 troy ounces. No, they are cast into a form with a nominal weight, then measured very accurately. They are then sold at their actual weight, not the nominal weight. |
17Np17BSrpnHCZ2pgtiMNnhjnsWJ2TMqq8
I routinely ignore posters with paid advertising in their sigs. You should too.
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Luno
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September 19, 2012, 03:36:15 PM |
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Ultrasound might work as long the tungsten is a bar or rods. What if the tungsten is a powder mixed in the inner portion of the gold bar?
maybe "Neutron Activation Analysis" would work: You shoot neutrons into the sample and Gamma ray energy, distribution and decay says something about the elements in the sample. It can detect even faint traces of other elements. Not for home testing, but quicker and less wasteful than recasting.
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totaleclipseofthebank
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September 19, 2012, 03:43:50 PM |
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Since some of it is real gold, the bar will weigh roughly a half gram more than it is supposed to, on a 311 gram bar.
well, if it says 311 gramm, it will weight 311 gramm. what they change is most likely the size! i.e. a fraction of a mm on a non-even surface (where the embossed numbers and letters are) is impossible to notice. therefore, one has to measure the actual volume, which is pretty hard. inb4 archimedes #eureka |
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ErnestoJuarell
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Activity: 113
Merit: 10
¿Sabe lo que quiero decir?
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September 19, 2012, 04:20:31 PM |
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My Bitcoins are filled with doubt
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phatsphere
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September 19, 2012, 04:24:41 PM |
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inb4 archimedes #eureka
his method is so inexact, it wouldn't work at all. you know, water has this nasty thing of "surface tension" |
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dancupid
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September 19, 2012, 04:31:11 PM |
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I just wrote my private key onto a light bulb to test this - the private key was then projected onto my curtains when I turned the light on.
Tungsten and bitcoins are a dangerous combination.
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totaleclipseofthebank
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September 19, 2012, 04:33:33 PM |
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inb4 archimedes #eureka
his method is so inexact, it wouldn't work at all. you know, water has this nasty thing of "surface tension" use oil then. this method should be pretty exact. Worst case you'd have to get some lab glassware to have precise volumetric measurements. |
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MrTeal
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Activity: 1274
Merit: 1004
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September 19, 2012, 04:39:39 PM |
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inb4 archimedes #eureka
his method is so inexact, it wouldn't work at all. you know, water has this nasty thing of "surface tension" use oil then. this method should be pretty exact. Worst case you'd have to get some lab glassware to have precise volumetric measurements. Getting accuracy of better than 0.1% might be pretty tough even with lab equipment, especially when one of the surfaces is embossed. |
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Come-from-Beyond
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Activity: 2142
Merit: 1009
Newbie
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September 19, 2012, 04:41:06 PM |
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This is actually more wide spread than you think, I know lots of Chinese factories are producing
these tungsten filled "gold bars" that is flooding the market. Most of the time even the merchant would not
know, since it's difficult to know unless you destroy the bar and reveal what's inside. I think at least
20% of gold bars on the market right now, are tungsten filled.
Don't see any problem if these bars r used as legal tender. Noone should care what is inside. Tungsten is even more valuable than paper inside dollar banknotes. |
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totaleclipseofthebank
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September 19, 2012, 04:43:56 PM |
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inb4 archimedes #eureka
his method is so inexact, it wouldn't work at all. you know, water has this nasty thing of "surface tension" use oil then. this method should be pretty exact. Worst case you'd have to get some lab glassware to have precise volumetric measurements. Getting accuracy of better than 0.1% might be pretty tough even with lab equipment, especially when one of the surfaces is embossed. It would be pretty tough, you are right, and would require some laboratory skill. 19.25/19.30 is a thin margin. The conductivity test or ultrasound would probably be the easiest. |
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