HashFast cypherdoc bankruptcy scandal : Time to clean up bitcoin

[QuestionAuthority]

As far as btc is concerned, I no longer buy from, sell to, trade with, give to or take from anyone at this forum - ever. That's because I've witnessed thievery from even the oldest and most respected members here. Hell, a respected and highly trusted mod has ripped me off. Needless to say, it doesn't surprise me that cypherdoc ended up being a scammer.

The most surprising thing for me was that he's a California Asian associated with a good school. I don't know why, but when I read his posts I pictured him being a white, short, fat, professor of economics that hates his job at some no name school in middle America. You know, the kind of professor that didn't get super good grades so he ended up teaching at a mediocre school in the middle of nowhere. Sick of teaching country bumpkins supply side economics, this guy hangs out on an obscure finance forum making himself feel superior by ridiculing and schooling the truly inept. I never would have guessed it. He'll probably get away with it too because all the really good scammers that get away scott free have been Asian. Whitie keeps getting caught. LOL

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[notbatman]

As far as btc is concerned, I no longer buy from, sell to, trade with, give to or take from anyone at this forum - ever. That's because I've witnessed thievery from even the oldest and most respected members here. Hell, a respected and highly trusted mod has ripped me off. Needless to say, it doesn't surprise me that cypherdoc ended up being a scammer.

The most surprising thing for me was that he's a California Asian associated with a good school. I don't know why, but when I read his posts I pictured him being a white, short, fat, professor of economics that hates his job at some no name school in middle America. You know, the kind of professor that didn't get super good grades so he ended up teaching at a mediocre school in the middle of nowhere. Sick of teaching country bumpkins supply side economics, this guy hangs out on an obscure finance forum making himself feel superior by ridiculing and schooling the truly inept. I never would have guessed it. He'll probably get away with it too because all the really good scammers that get away scott free have been Asian. Whitie keeps getting caught. LOL

Black, white, brown, yellow, red... like different breeds of dogs. The question is does he have a hooked nose? Maybe he's a dingo!

[iCEBREAKER]

Does anyone have information about how much actual mining by customers was done by HashFast gear? (If any.)

And were they running the old 'factory test' mining before shipping to customers boondoggle?

HF shipped all Batch 1 and 2 customers' machines.  Unlike Cointerra's (also late-shipping) machines, HF's ran at the advertised 400GH/s spec.

Plenty of mining was done by their gear.  Icedrill is still mining with HF ASICs.

Early equipment (including firmware) was not sufficiently tested and had stability issues.  Later production, subjected to rigorous QA, was much more reliable.

The ridiculous 'secret mining' canard was brought up by cedivad, only to be promptly debunked.

I'm surprised and disappointed someone of your caliber would, without even being aware of these basic facts, rehash old gossip and leap to defamatory conclusions which have been soundly rejected in court.

As for the case of Greedy Lawyers vs cypherdoc, Judge Montali is highly skeptical of their flimsy claims and literally mocked/laughed at them on several occasions.

I know you're pissed off at cypherdoc for being an annoying Gavin fanboy lately, but these unfounded rumors are not the best cudgel with which to bash him.

[QuestionAuthority]

As far as btc is concerned, I no longer buy from, sell to, trade with, give to or take from anyone at this forum - ever. That's because I've witnessed thievery from even the oldest and most respected members here. Hell, a respected and highly trusted mod has ripped me off. Needless to say, it doesn't surprise me that cypherdoc ended up being a scammer.

The most surprising thing for me was that he's a California Asian associated with a good school. I don't know why, but when I read his posts I pictured him being a white, short, fat, professor of economics that hates his job at some no name school in middle America. You know, the kind of professor that didn't get super good grades so he ended up teaching at a mediocre school in the middle of nowhere. Sick of teaching country bumpkins supply side economics, this guy hangs out on an obscure finance forum making himself feel superior by ridiculing and schooling the truly inept. I never would have guessed it. He'll probably get away with it too because all the really good scammers that get away scott free have been Asian. Whitie keeps getting caught. LOL

Black, white, brown, yellow, red... like different breeds of dogs. The question is does he have a hooked nose? Maybe he's a dingo!

A dingo ate my baby.

[marcus_of_augustus]

Does anyone have information about how much actual mining by customers was done by HashFast gear? (If any.)

And were they running the old 'factory test' mining before shipping to customers boondoggle?

HF shipped all Batch 1 and 2 customers' machines.  Unlike Cointerra's (also late-shipping) machines, HF's ran at the advertised 400GH/s spec.

Plenty of mining was done by their gear.  Icedrill is still mining with HF ASICs.

Early equipment (including firmware) was not sufficiently tested and had stability issues.  Later production, subjected to rigorous QA, was much more reliable.

The ridiculous 'secret mining' canard was brought up by cedivad, only to be promptly debunked.

I'm surprised and disappointed someone of your caliber would, without even being aware of these basic facts, rehash old gossip and leap to defamatory conclusions which have been soundly rejected in court.

As for the case of Greedy Lawyers vs cypherdoc, Judge Montali is highly skeptical of their flimsy claims and literally mocked/laughed at them on several occasions.

I know you're pissed off at cypherdoc for being an annoying Gavin fanboy lately, but these unfounded rumors are not the best cudgel with which to bash him.

Sounds like you are mixed up in it too somehow. And it is all news to me, looks like the court action is current so not so much 'rehash old gossip' as a necessary catharsis. I'm keeping the investigation to the tabled facts so not sure what 'defamatory conclusions' you refer to.

Going on the public court documents it is quite damning for cypherdoc the payments made for "endorsements" and that there was hardware that was never delivered to forum members I'm assuming. Which is the height of hypocrisy given his crazed defamatory "conflict of interest" LeBronning of core devs and personal slurs towards me.

People in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones. Any cudgel bashing is of his own making, he had fair warning I don't put up with that nonsense.

[QuestionAuthority]

Does anyone have information about how much actual mining by customers was done by HashFast gear? (If any.)

And were they running the old 'factory test' mining before shipping to customers boondoggle?

HF shipped all Batch 1 and 2 customers' machines.  Unlike Cointerra's (also late-shipping) machines, HF's ran at the advertised 400GH/s spec.

Plenty of mining was done by their gear.  Icedrill is still mining with HF ASICs.

Early equipment (including firmware) was not sufficiently tested and had stability issues.  Later production, subjected to rigorous QA, was much more reliable.

The ridiculous 'secret mining' canard was brought up by cedivad, only to be promptly debunked.

I'm surprised and disappointed someone of your caliber would, without even being aware of these basic facts, rehash old gossip and leap to defamatory conclusions which have been soundly rejected in court.

As for the case of Greedy Lawyers vs cypherdoc, Judge Montali is highly skeptical of their flimsy claims and literally mocked/laughed at them on several occasions.

I know you're pissed off at cypherdoc for being an annoying Gavin fanboy lately, but these unfounded rumors are not the best cudgel with which to bash him.

Sounds like you are mixed up in it too somehow. And it is all news to me, looks like the court action is current so not so much 'rehash old gossip' as a necessary catharsis. I'm keeping the investigation to the tabled facts so not sure what 'defamatory conclusions' you refer to.

Going on the public court documents it is quite damning for cypherdoc the payments made for "endorsements" and that there was hardware that was never delivered to forum members I'm assuming. Which is the height of hypocrisy given his crazed defamatory "conflict of interest" LeBronning of core devs and personal slurs towards me.

People in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones. Any cudgel bashing is of his own making, he had fair warning I don't put up with that nonsense.

Go read his trust rating about HashFast.

[iCEBREAKER]

Sounds like you are mixed up in it too somehow. And it is all news to me, looks like the court action is current so not so much 'rehash old gossip' as a necessary catharsis. I'm keeping the investigation to the tabled facts so not sure what 'defamatory conclusions' you refer to.

Going on the public court documents it is quite damning for cypherdoc the payments made for "endorsements" and that there was hardware that was never delivered to forum members I'm assuming. Which is the height of hypocrisy given his crazed defamatory "conflict of interest" LeBronning of core devs and personal slurs towards me.

People in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones. Any cudgel bashing is of his own making, he had fair warning I don't put up with that nonsense.

It isn't news that Dr. Frappe was a compensated spokesman.  Have you even read his HF endorsement thread's OP?

The public court documents are only "damning" in the jaundiced eyes of those who have already pre-judged the case in favor of the plaintiff.

If you listen to the hearing, Judge Montali is *not* buying the 'ZOMG look how much he was paid per post' argument.

The 'LeBron' wisecrack came up in that context, as the judge and attorneys bantered, amused by the idiotic media practice of manufacturing outrage via dividing sports stars' salaries by some arbitrary figure such as number of games/pitches/hits/baskets/goals/points.

I'm as disgusted as anyone by Dr. Frappe's accusations of core dev obstuctionism-for-profit, but his demonstrated technical incompetence is a much better (and genuinely self-inflicted) way to destroy his credibility than an undecided longshot Hail Mary lawsuit.

[gmaxwell]

Well I found it damning because he mislead me previously-- claiming he was just another customer that got some discounts and lost money w/ hashfast like many others did-- in order to get me to previously pull the negative raiting for his part in promoting something that caused large losses for a lot of people.  So finding out that he actually made an enormous profit from it was quite eye opening, no pun intended.

[gogxmagog]

this is very very very illuminating for all who got burned by activemining. that whole scam revolved around all sorts of "top-secret, NDA protected" dealings with hashfast that ultimately left the Activemining shareholders holding the bag and ken slaughter shrugging his shoulders and going "derp"

if one of these retards put half the energy into something aboveboard as they do into these elaborate scams, BTC would be the main world wide currency instead of this sketchy looking tool for hackers and thieves that it resembles today.

yeah, as a community we should do everything we can to eliminate these scumbags. A good place to start is the "securities" section... the front page has at least 3 new obvious scams every day. it is every white hat's duty to go there and poke holes in these shams, call them out, expose them and protect the innocent naive users who might be fooled and in turn be robbed and ultimately alienated from the BTC economy overall.

this garbage VERY bad for BTC

Hmmm, what was Activemining? And how were they related to the HashFast scandal?

Active mining was a company that raised IPO funds out of the securities section. They promised to develop thief own chips, miners, and mining farm. They almost seemed like they might come through, but didn't.
As they imploded the CEO started saying he had a deal with hashfast but it was strictly bound by NDA. Later he claimed he had paid them almost a million USD worth of BTC but the deal was off and he was getting a refund.
He fucked off shortly after that, no one saw a dime.

[marcus_of_augustus]

Ha, this is good. This time it got moved to "Meta"!! Whoever it is, is quite sure they do not want this discussed on the front page.

The number of people who line up to take a kick is kind of telling.

[QuestionAuthority]

Why is this in Meta and what could it possibly have to do with the operation of the forum?

[Quickseller]

Why is this in Meta and what could it possibly have to do with the operation of the forum?

The OP is asking why his thread was moved to scam accusations.

[iCEBREAKER]

Why is this in Meta and what could it possibly have to do with the operation of the forum?

The OP is asking why his thread was moved to scam accusations.

Why was OP's scam accusation moved to the scam accusation sub?

Only the thermos knows for sure!   

[marcus_of_augustus]

Why is this in Meta and what could it possibly have to do with the operation of the forum?

The OP is asking why his thread was moved to scam accusations.

Why was OP's scam accusation moved to the scam accusation sub?

Only the thermos knows for sure!   

It wasn't actually a scam accusation. I was just raising the discussion about the cypherdoc Hashfast $50M scandal, but as it happened, on the face of the facts, it unfortunately looks like in all probability some kind of scam so it was easy to misinterpret it as a scam accusation be cause it so blatantly looks like a scam.

I'll raise another specifically worded discussion topic so as to try not to get shunted into yet another dead alley forum thread by the mods. I mean take a look at all the other topics in meta, which one of them have such specific discussion topics? If the mods keep doing their jobs with such bloody-minded efficiency we may be able to end up running a Hashfast/cypherdoc scandal thread in every sub-topic by the time we are finished discussing all the facts and implications, it's mestastising.

I suppose this thread now should be dedicated to meta ideas about how we can clean up bitcoin by ostracizing or otherwise making people aware of the bad actors (scammers, terrible businessmen, or simply unethical endorsers) inhabiting the bitcointalk forum.

[smoothie]

I don't see how any mining offer can ever live up to the promise.

Essentially the manufacturer, if they can even make product, will always switch on the miner and mine to the point of un~profitability themselves then send you your product in almost all cases.

Even a company sends the first batch out ok, will then really make a killing on the second batch, which they can now sell at a premium and have more funds to make more product which then arrives late. Thus arbitraging out their good will from the first batch.

Only those with direct access to fab shops and economies of scale can mine at a profit.

Another way to look at it would be: once 3D printing of microchips (and the initial examples will likely be literal micrometer scale process geometry), then home miners can wrest back a significant part of the market. They don't even necessarily need to be profitable; over-optimistic mining economics only begins to hit home once it's far too late to cut a reasonable proportion of losses, and it's easier to rationalise in that way when you're not risking the huge amounts of capital that large mines are. For that reason, an expanded home mining market could help reverse the centralisation trend in mining.

Hmm interesting. Has anyone ever tried to 3D print a microchip?

If so, were they successful even on a very base case test?

This would be interesting going forward as average joe could print his own chips based on his own design.

Hmm

[smoothie]

Well I found it damning because he mislead me previously-- claiming he was just another customer that got some discounts and lost money w/ hashfast like many others did-- in order to get me to previously pull the negative raiting for his part in promoting something that caused large losses for a lot of people.  So finding out that he actually made an enormous profit from it was quite eye opening, no pun intended.

This right here is pretty bad assuming it is true.

Why would cypherdoc hide he was being paid a large sum then complain and play the victim card when he made out with probably 10-20x his original investment?

Seems fishy to me.

[QuestionAuthority]

Well I found it damning because he mislead me previously-- claiming he was just another customer that got some discounts and lost money w/ hashfast like many others did-- in order to get me to previously pull the negative raiting for his part in promoting something that caused large losses for a lot of people.  So finding out that he actually made an enormous profit from it was quite eye opening, no pun intended.

This right here is pretty bad assuming it is true.

Why would cypherdoc hide he was being paid a large sum then complain and play the victim card when he made out with probably 10-20x his original investment?

Seems fishy to me.

Hum, why would he do that. Let's see, probably for a fat stack of cash. LOL

[Gyrsur]

need 3000 BTC too!