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Author Topic: IBM working with US Federal banks to develop digital currency  (Read 2119 times)
bitgolden
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October 21, 2015, 03:50:52 PM
 #21

Centralized digital currency is the same as fiat. What is the point in that?

Yes there is no point for a country to create it's own cryptocurrency. It may create one if they decide to switch over to digital format by abounding the fiat completely, which is not at all possible. I will never use a centralized cryptocurrcny for any reasons because I'm already using Paypal.

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October 21, 2015, 03:59:06 PM
 #22

Centralized digital currency is the same as fiat. What is the point in that?

Yes there is no point for a country to create it's own cryptocurrency. It may create one if they decide to switch over to digital format by abounding the fiat completely, which is not at all possible. I will never use a centralized cryptocurrcny for any reasons because I'm already using Paypal.

Of course there is a point: Getting people to fall for the ponzi scheme again by remarketing it into "electronic money" when it's the same good ol fiat shit. They want to distract everyone from Bitcoin and they will keep pushing their agenda which is making Bitcoin seem as something fishy. Meanwhile, they are working hard into a electronic centralized crypto. It's a big distraction plan to keep people away from Bitcoin.



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October 21, 2015, 04:33:48 PM
 #23

A centralized digital currency run by federal banks... how is that essentially not the system we already have? The majority of USDs are in electronic format anyway. The only difference is that the USD can take physical shape in the form of dollar bills and coins, but the majority of transactions (by value, not volume) are currently electronic.


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October 21, 2015, 04:52:33 PM
 #24

A centralized digital currency run by federal banks... how is that essentially not the system we already have? The majority of USDs are in electronic format anyway. The only difference is that the USD can take physical shape in the form of dollar bills and coins, but the majority of transactions (by value, not volume) are currently electronic.

Yup. I guess the advantage of a dollar which has some BTC related innovations wipes out ridiculous transfer and clearance times.

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October 21, 2015, 04:58:57 PM
 #25

A centralized digital currency run by federal banks... how is that essentially not the system we already have? The majority of USDs are in electronic format anyway. The only difference is that the USD can take physical shape in the form of dollar bills and coins, but the majority of transactions (by value, not volume) are currently electronic.

Fur sure it will be not. The economic system based on the currency digital coin cannot be manipulated like that the actual system. The production of the digital coin is determined, controlled and realized by the peer to peer technology. This technology ask and realize the not possibility of manipulation of the amount of money (digital coin) produced in time even if this kind of money will be centralized. While the actually economic system based at the actual fiat money is controlled by the human kind which can abuse with everything has to do with it.

So, in the first case is the technology which "command". In the second the (one or more) human being.  In the first case cannot is possible the manipulation of the money. In the second yes. This is the essential difference between the two currencies. Even both are centralized. Is not the centralization the problem but who command about money.
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October 21, 2015, 05:16:23 PM
 #26

They trying to doing something and failing is IBM's thing.
Whether they create some hardware another company takes the idea and makes it better then makes a million dollars. Same with their programming endeavours, OS/2 Warp anyone?
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October 21, 2015, 05:20:49 PM
 #27


Fur sure it will be not. The economic system based on the currency digital coin cannot be manipulated like that the actual system. The production of the digital coin is determined, controlled and realized by the peer to peer technology. This technology ask and realize the not possibility of manipulation of the amount of money (digital coin) produced in time even if this kind of money will be centralized. While the actually economic system based at the actual fiat money is controlled by the human kind which can abuse with everything has to do with it.


I will ask again. Why would any country introduce something of this nature?


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October 21, 2015, 05:34:48 PM
 #28

Good luck getting me to spend my precious universal, uncontrollable, money for some shitty bank coupons. Looks like the banks have passed through the "Bitcoin can't be money!" phase and entered the "I'll create my own alt-coin!" phase. Good luck with that.

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October 21, 2015, 05:48:11 PM
 #29

Blockchain is only good for the banks to save and streamline their operations, they may create their own currency but as many others have said these attempts will ultimately fail.  They are trying really hard to separate the blockchain from Bitcoin, Bitcoin is where it's at and where it will be at in the coming years.


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October 21, 2015, 05:48:35 PM
 #30

This would be centralized lol. Feds are seeing that dollar would be not that good anymore so they hold on to something which is more promising.

Thanks but no thanks. I would still use bitcoin over some centralized and regulated sht controlled by the feds and the banks.

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October 21, 2015, 05:50:25 PM
 #31

Good luck getting me to spend my precious universal, uncontrollable, money for some shitty bank coupons. Looks like the banks have passed through the "Bitcoin can't be money!" phase and entered the "I'll create my own alt-coin!" phase. Good luck with that.

Yes that's the real scenario is going on now. Governments may think of creating an alt coin why banning bitcoin. Fortunately bitcoin does not need any governments approval to use it. So, nothing can stop the evolution of bitcoin. Bitcoin will be here without any problem initiated by any banks or regulations.

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October 21, 2015, 06:44:44 PM
 #32


Fur sure it will be not. The economic system based on the currency digital coin cannot be manipulated like that the actual system. The production of the digital coin is determined, controlled and realized by the peer to peer technology. This technology ask and realize the not possibility of manipulation of the amount of money (digital coin) produced in time even if this kind of money will be centralized. While the actually economic system based at the actual fiat money is controlled by the human kind which can abuse with everything has to do with it.


I will ask again. Why would any country introduce something of this nature?



No country will introduce anything because countries are not agents or individuals.  They never have been  People wearing funny hats telling others they represent a country, on the other hand, might introduce whatever they like.  For the usual reasons. 

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October 22, 2015, 03:59:40 AM
 #33


Fur sure it will be not. The economic system based on the currency digital coin cannot be manipulated like that the actual system. The production of the digital coin is determined, controlled and realized by the peer to peer technology. This technology ask and realize the not possibility of manipulation of the amount of money (digital coin) produced in time even if this kind of money will be centralized. While the actually economic system based at the actual fiat money is controlled by the human kind which can abuse with everything has to do with it.


I will ask again. Why would any country introduce something of this nature?


I haven't read this your question before. Could you show me please where it is?

Then, if it will be implemented such system, the reason will be known only by them which will implement it.

According to me, at least, because this kind of economic system, based in such kind of currency, realize (theoretically and if realized in a fair way) an stable and continuous economic increase and and a sustainable growth (without or with much less than the actual crisis).

Don't forget to show me when is made before your above answer. Waiting.....  Huh
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October 22, 2015, 06:28:10 AM
 #34

Blockchain technology was so futuristic and high level so everyone wanna try to adopt it.
But I'm sure that would be heavily manipulated because of heavy centralization.
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October 23, 2015, 11:54:24 AM
 #35

Good luck getting me to spend my precious universal, uncontrollable, money for some shitty bank coupons. Looks like the banks have passed through the "Bitcoin can't be money!" phase and entered the "I'll create my own alt-coin!" phase. Good luck with that.

And it shall end up like all other alts so far
Reminds me of the intranet fad in the 90s, "this internet thing looks interesting, but we'll create our own safer and controlled version!"
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October 23, 2015, 12:53:41 PM
 #36

Good luck getting me to spend my precious universal, uncontrollable, money for some shitty bank coupons. Looks like the banks have passed through the "Bitcoin can't be money!" phase and entered the "I'll create my own alt-coin!" phase. Good luck with that.

And it shall end up like all other alts so far
Reminds me of the intranet fad in the 90s, "this internet thing looks interesting, but we'll create our own safer and controlled version!"

Everyone who make a little reasoning can understand that the (commercial) banks will use blockchain or the technology used to build it, not for creating their own coins. Everyone which think a little can understand that this is impossible. We will have millions of coins and all the (commercial) banks in discussion with all the other (commercial) banks to accept their coin. So every (commercial) bank will passe all its time in discussion to reach the needed collaboration with all the banks which collaborate about its coin. The same thing for other millions remaining. Then everyone of those will find the way that their coins have legal value. For this needed the permission of the Central Bank of the country. So other discussions with the Central Banks of every country; which will want the "why" of this choice. I can't find one. I think even the banks. So probably this permission cannot be given. In other words, the result will be an imaginable mess and an absurd situation where everyone cannot understand everyone.

Every (commercial) banks it is not so stupid to do or even wonder this. They work with the money and such kind of work need to much intelligence. If they do such work (with money) and survive or have profits from that, mean that are intelligent and not at all stupid.

So, who think that the (commercial) banks are working to know or implement the technology in which is based the creation of blockchain to create  a new personal digital coin is in big wrong.

They are studying blockchain to implement its technology not to create some clone or another digital coin. The technology of blockchain, named peer to peer realize, if applied, big reduction of costs. This is the reason of their study of blockchain. This is the power of peer to peer and from this reason is called disruptive. Remain to be understand the field (within the commercial bank) in which it will be applied but I think that the probability is to high that can be applied firstly at the transactions made from the bank. Aiming to reduce the costs connected with those. Anyhow this is a guess and as such remain to be verified.

It is a totally other thing the question treated from the OP. This is the case of the creation of e new coin. But it will be a coin created by and for the Federal Reserve, which is totally another typo of bank and have totally different duties. The digital coin created by the Federal Reserve (if it will be created) will have legal power. It will be like or will replace us dollar (according to the decisions taken by this bank). Will be owned by the state of USA and will be national legal currency of USA. With or within the us dollar. Will have formal power and will be not like the million other altcoins created by one or a group of developers who, in most of the cases, create the altcoin only to make some money and to forget it.

Everyone will be "forced" to use it. This national digital coin will serve for every relation with the Authorities, in this national digital coin will be every salary of everyone (whether it will be private or public the work which will be rewarded), this national digital coin will be used by every merchant etc. So everyone who want to live normally in USA will be "obligated" to use it. No one will ask to leave bitcoin because bitcoin is regulated in USA. But for sure will use this new digital coin created by and for Federal Reserve.

IF IT WILL BE CREATED AND IF WILL HAVE FORMAL POWER GIVEN BY FEDERAL RESERVE. THERE ARE ONLY DISCUSSIONS. THIS DOESN'T MEAN THAT FOR SURE WILL BE CREATED.
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October 23, 2015, 01:07:21 PM
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Good luck getting me to spend my precious universal, uncontrollable, money for some shitty bank coupons. Looks like the banks have passed through the "Bitcoin can't be money!" phase and entered the "I'll create my own alt-coin!" phase. Good luck with that.

And it shall end up like all other alts so far
Reminds me of the intranet fad in the 90s, "this internet thing looks interesting, but we'll create our own safer and controlled version!"

Everyone who make a little reasoning can understand that the (commercial) banks will use blockchain or the technology used to build it, not for creating their own coins. Everyone which think a little can understand that this is impossible. We will have millions of coins and all the (commercial) banks in discussion with all the other (commercial) banks to accept their coin. So every (commercial) bank will passe all its time in discussion to reach the needed collaboration with all the banks which collaborate about its coin. The same thing for other millions remaining. Then everyone of those will find the way that their coins have legal value. For this needed the permission of the Central Bank of the country. So other discussions with the Central Banks of every country; which will want the "why" of this choice. I can't find one. I think even the banks. So probably this permission cannot be given. In other words, the result will be an imaginable mess and an absurd situation where everyone cannot understand everyone.

Every (commercial) banks it is not so stupid to do or even wonder this. They work with the money and such kind of work need to much intelligence. If they do such work (with money) and survive or have profits from that, mean that are intelligent and not at all stupid.

So, who think that the (commercial) banks are working to know or implement the technology in which is based the creation of blockchain to create  a new personal digital coin is in big wrong.

They are studying blockchain to implement its technology not to create some clone or another digital coin. The technology of blockchain, named peer to peer realize, if applied, big reduction of costs. This is the reason of their study of blockchain. This is the power of peer to peer and from this reason is called disruptive. Remain to be understand the field (within the commercial bank) in which it will be applied but I think that the probability is to high that can be applied firstly at the transactions made from the bank. Aiming to reduce the costs connected with those. Anyhow this is a guess and as such remain to be verified.

It is a totally other thing the question treated from the OP. This is the case of the creation of e new coin. But it will be a coin created by and for the Federal Reserve, which is totally another typo of bank and have totally different duties. The digital coin created by the Federal Reserve (if it will be created) will have legal power. It will be like or will replace us dollar (according to the decisions taken by this bank). Will be owned by the state of USA and will be national legal currency of USA. With or within the us dollar. Will have formal power and will be not like the million other altcoins created by one or a group of developers who, in most of the cases, create the altcoin only to make some money and to forget it.

Everyone will be "forced" to use it. This national digital coin will serve for every relation with the Authorities, in this national digital coin will be every salary of everyone (whether it will be private or public the work which will be rewarded), this national digital coin will be used by every merchant etc. So everyone who want to live normally in USA will be "obligated" to use it. No one will ask to leave bitcoin because bitcoin is regulated in USA. But for sure will use this new digital coin created by and for Federal Reserve.

IF IT WILL BE CREATED AND IF WILL HAVE FORMAL POWER GIVEN BY FEDERAL RESERVE. THERE ARE ONLY DISCUSSIONS. THIS DOESN'T MEAN THAT FOR SURE WILL BE CREATED.

above could be...I would add to this that if it did happen (say USA first) then all countries would try the same..but MOST would not work ..because same issue as now..China would not trust a crypto coin backed by usa or vice versa...make that 180 countries make their own crypto version of some manner you state above..

the catch is bitcoin would probably GAIN value in the above as an alternative of a gov't's coin creation in the above manner...(prob closed source) ..the world has enough issues screaming about how the usd dominates the world of commerce with the US dollar now...or how the internet is too USA centralized......so these gov't coins may indeed be coming ..but again imho if it is that bad and that prevalent as you seem to say....then open source crypto (likely bitcoin) would really thrive imho as an alternative..i mean would you be a big fan of 'ivory coast coin' crypto? or would you just go around all the banks/gov't etc on the open crypto ...again likely bitcoin ...China/Russia/Iran etc may use usd now...but would not even think about trusting a crypto from USA especially if closed source imho ..just saying...and of course this is talking about govt's ..individuals I would think would even be more unlikely to do so ..even in the individual country...I like Canada ..but would not be all fired up to use Canadian Crypto say made with help of say Canadian Bankers and the Gov't no matter how enlightened the coin may be...probably would not slam it as evil but sure as heck would not use/get or in anyway promote such ..I would at best be indifferent to such an attempt and as newbies got to know crypto I would assume the same if pressed at say that future time ..big yawn..

anyway will probably be something between our 2 extremes but you get my point ...(not that I now what I'm talking about) but the above came to mind Smiley

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October 23, 2015, 01:41:25 PM
 #38

Good luck getting me to spend my precious universal, uncontrollable, money for some shitty bank coupons. Looks like the banks have passed through the "Bitcoin can't be money!" phase and entered the "I'll create my own alt-coin!" phase. Good luck with that.

And it shall end up like all other alts so far
Reminds me of the intranet fad in the 90s, "this internet thing looks interesting, but we'll create our own safer and controlled version!"

Everyone who make a little reasoning can understand that the (commercial) banks will use blockchain or the technology used to build it, not for creating their own coins. Everyone which think a little can understand that this is impossible. We will have millions of coins and all the (commercial) banks in discussion with all the other (commercial) banks to accept their coin. So every (commercial) bank will passe all its time in discussion to reach the needed collaboration with all the banks which collaborate about its coin. The same thing for other millions remaining. Then everyone of those will find the way that their coins have legal value. For this needed the permission of the Central Bank of the country. So other discussions with the Central Banks of every country; which will want the "why" of this choice. I can't find one. I think even the banks. So probably this permission cannot be given. In other words, the result will be an imaginable mess and an absurd situation where everyone cannot understand everyone.

Every (commercial) banks it is not so stupid to do or even wonder this. They work with the money and such kind of work need to much intelligence. If they do such work (with money) and survive or have profits from that, mean that are intelligent and not at all stupid.

So, who think that the (commercial) banks are working to know or implement the technology in which is based the creation of blockchain to create  a new personal digital coin is in big wrong.

They are studying blockchain to implement its technology not to create some clone or another digital coin. The technology of blockchain, named peer to peer realize, if applied, big reduction of costs. This is the reason of their study of blockchain. This is the power of peer to peer and from this reason is called disruptive. Remain to be understand the field (within the commercial bank) in which it will be applied but I think that the probability is to high that can be applied firstly at the transactions made from the bank. Aiming to reduce the costs connected with those. Anyhow this is a guess and as such remain to be verified.

It is a totally other thing the question treated from the OP. This is the case of the creation of e new coin. But it will be a coin created by and for the Federal Reserve, which is totally another typo of bank and have totally different duties. The digital coin created by the Federal Reserve (if it will be created) will have legal power. It will be like or will replace us dollar (according to the decisions taken by this bank). Will be owned by the state of USA and will be national legal currency of USA. With or within the us dollar. Will have formal power and will be not like the million other altcoins created by one or a group of developers who, in most of the cases, create the altcoin only to make some money and to forget it.

Everyone will be "forced" to use it. This national digital coin will serve for every relation with the Authorities, in this national digital coin will be every salary of everyone (whether it will be private or public the work which will be rewarded), this national digital coin will be used by every merchant etc. So everyone who want to live normally in USA will be "obligated" to use it. No one will ask to leave bitcoin because bitcoin is regulated in USA. But for sure will use this new digital coin created by and for Federal Reserve.

IF IT WILL BE CREATED AND IF WILL HAVE FORMAL POWER GIVEN BY FEDERAL RESERVE. THERE ARE ONLY DISCUSSIONS. THIS DOESN'T MEAN THAT FOR SURE WILL BE CREATED.

above could be...I would add to this that if it did happen (say USA first) then all countries would try the same..but MOST would not work ..because same issue as now..China would not trust a crypto coin backed by usa or vice versa...make that 180 countries make their own crypto version of some manner you state above..

the catch is bitcoin would probably GAIN value in the above as an alternative of a gov't's coin creation in the above manner...(prob closed source) ..the world has enough issues screaming about how the usd dominates the world of commerce with the US dollar now...or how the internet is too USA centralized......so these gov't coins may indeed be coming ..but again imho if it is that bad and that prevalent as you seem to say....then open source crypto (likely bitcoin) would really thrive imho as an alternative..i mean would you be a big fan of 'ivory coast coin' crypto? or would you just go around all the banks/gov't etc on the open crypto ...again likely bitcoin ...China/Russia/Iran etc may use usd now...but would not even think about trusting a crypto from USA especially if closed source imho ..just saying...and of course this is talking about govt's ..individuals I would think would even be more unlikely to do so ..even in the individual country...I like Canada ..but would not be all fired up to use Canadian Crypto say made with help of say Canadian Bankers and the Gov't no matter how enlightened the coin may be...probably would not slam it as evil but sure as heck would not use/get or in anyway promote such ..I would at best be indifferent to such an attempt and as newbies got to know crypto I would assume the same if pressed at say that future time ..big yawn..

anyway will probably be something between our 2 extremes but you get my point ...(not that I now what I'm talking about) but the above came to mind Smiley

To tell the right I am lost in your post.  Wink Seems to mess. To many thoughts told shortly and maybe it is not your the fault. So will answer only to the things that I understand.

First we can go ahead without doing castle in the air. In other words such national digital coin must be made and have the status about which is mentioned before. Then discuss about it. But since exist this thread we can discuss only to pass the time and to change opinions. So every thought or interpretation below or above must have the big IF before. So, if it will be created and if will replace us dollar. For the moment we know that there are only discussions and words from an article. That's are not at all enough to tell that the above and the below about this supposed digital coin can be true.

Lets continue then with the suppositions or interpretations about your post. Following it and without doing reference at every your thoughts (because the post will be very long) i can tell that:

Yes, I believe that if USA will introduce such digital coin as its national formal money will be followed probably not immediately but in time for sure, from all the other countries of all the world.

I think that this coin will work like a clock so disagree with you about this. Why you like the bitcoin and not another coin secure and formal one like bitcoin made from your Authorities?

China will be obligated to know and work with this coin if it will be the national formal money of USA or will have this status - the same like us dollar (if it will be coexistence of both of those). If China will not accept this will suffer China itself.

I don't see any problem if all the countries of the world follow USA. Every of those have its national money. Where is the problem if this national money become digital coin money? On the contrary, I think that this would a big step ahead for every economy of every country and for all the world.

That's the end of that I understand from your post. As for bitcoin I can give you two other threads who discus the position of bitcoin if in the world will be verified such situation as above written or about its possible place in the world of currencies.

You can make your discussion there if you want. You can discuss about everything and tell what you think (whatever can be your thoughts). But please with less passion and with more clear explanations:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1205842.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1191118.0
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October 23, 2015, 08:29:53 PM
 #39

Some interesting thoughts here guys. Something that banks should also consider is me. I can not be compelled to use their blockchain inventions. I might use them if there is some real advantage but bitcoin is my currency now and any system they want me to participate in must involve bitcoin. Other than that I only need a safe deposit box from a bank. And I only need that to store USB sticks with bitcoins on them.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin in ICELAND - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1610684
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October 25, 2015, 04:48:43 AM
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International Business Machines Corp is considering adopting the underlying technology behind bitcoin, known as the "blockchain," to create a digital cash and payment system for major currencies, according to a person familiar with the matter.

The objective is to allow people to transfer cash or make payments instantaneously using this technology without a bank or clearing party involved, saving on transaction costs, the person said. The transactions would be in an open ledger of a specific country's currency such as the dollar or euro, said the source, who declined to be identified because of a lack of authorization to discuss the project in public.

The blockchain - a ledger, or list, of all of a digital currency's transactions - is viewed as bitcoin's main technological innovation, allowing users to make payments anonymously, instantly, and without government regulation.

Rather than stored on a separate server and controlled by an individual, company, or bank, the ledger is open and accessible to all participants in the bitcoin network.

The proposed digital currency system would work in a similar way.

"When somebody wants to transact in the system, instead of you trying to acquire a bitcoin, you simply say, here are some U.S. dollars," the source said. "It's sort of a bitcoin but without the bitcoin."

IBM is one of a number of tech companies looking to expand the use of the blockchain technology beyond bitcoin, the digital currency launched six years ago that has spurred a following among investors and tech enthusiasts.

The company has been in informal discussions about a blockchain-tied cash system with a number of central banks, including the U.S. Federal Reserve, the source said. If central banks approve the concept, IBM will build the secure and scalable infrastructure for the project.

IBM media relations office did not respond to Reuters emails about this story and the Fed declined to comment.

However, there are signs that central banks are already thinking about the innovations that could arise through digital currency systems. The Bank of England, in a report in September 2014, described the blockchain's open ledger as a "significant innovation" that could transform the financial system more generally.

Instead of having ledgers maintained by banks that act as a record of an individual's transactions, this kind of open ledger would be viewable by everyone using the system, and would use an agreed-upon process for entering transactions into the system.

The project is still in the early stages and constantly evolving, the source said. It is also unclear how concerns about money-laundering and criminal activities that have hamstrung bitcoin.

Unlike bitcoin, where the network is decentralized and there is no overseer, the proposed digital currency system would be controlled by central banks, the source said.

"These coins will be part of the money supply," the source said. "It's the same money, just not a dollar bill with a serial number on it, but a token that sits on this blockchain."

According to the plans, the digital currency could be linked to a person's bank account, possibly using a wallet software that would integrate that account with the proposed digital currency ledger.

"We are at a tipping point right now. It's making a lot more sense for some type of digital cash in the system, that not only saves our government money, but also is a lot more convenient and secure for individuals to use," the source said.
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