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Author Topic: "Bitcoin" XT Status Update  (Read 10790 times)
Nxtblg
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August 19, 2015, 05:19:11 PM
 #121

I'm obviously trolling Nxtblg, for taking the precautionary principle as applied to block size and extrapolating a general position of 'no one should ever do anything dangerous, and especially not visit the moon.'

I figgered as much. To be honest, I think it's a flawed principle because it's much more restrictive than those good ol' maxims of prudence that automatically left wiggle room for "leaps of faith" and other kinds of risk-taking.

But that's me. I stand by what I wrote earlier: "whatever keeps your boat afloat." You're wise to stick with your criteria; I'll stick with mine.

To be honest, I did download the full-node XT QT but I stopped running it when I saws that the Chinese miners didn't want to sign on. By that decision criterion, I pegged XT as yet another fad destined for the Land of Forgotten Fads. The way things look now, I might well have been wrong - but I'm still waiting it out & using Multibit.

It's a better (more entertaining) response than the silence he deserved.  Why you are white knighting for him?  Butthurt about theymos taking XT out back and shooting it, or what?

Well, I'll say one thing: my limited intellectual resources do make it feasible for me to recognize when I'm wrong.






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August 19, 2015, 05:20:23 PM
 #122

been saying it all along, it's gavins coin not bitcoin.
and I'm purposely running core just to give my vote.

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August 19, 2015, 07:57:20 PM
 #123

I pegged XT as yet another fad destined for the Land of Forgotten Fads.

Bingo!  Thanks for playing along and being a good sport.   Smiley


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August 19, 2015, 08:15:32 PM
 #124

At least we know now that Satoshi is not really interested in Monero crap technology. BitcoinXT full ahead... and leave Bitcoin die like it supposed too.

Failure after another with the useless Bitcoin foundation which crippled it.
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August 20, 2015, 03:36:23 PM
 #125

With all the damn threads, it seems like half of them, I think we know the f#$&king status.

lol
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August 20, 2015, 09:44:11 PM
 #126

Are there any exchanges with Bitcoin xt at the moment? Huh

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August 20, 2015, 11:27:20 PM
 #127

Big NACK for XT from the creator of Litecoin:

Quote


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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August 21, 2015, 01:11:10 AM
 #128

Are there any exchanges with Bitcoin xt at the moment? Huh

Any exchange that has bitcoin has XT.  Their still on the same chain.
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August 21, 2015, 01:26:42 AM
 #129

Are there any exchanges with Bitcoin xt at the moment? Huh

Any exchange that has bitcoin has XT.  Their still on the same chain.

Everyone's on the chain until Jan 2016. At the earliest.

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August 21, 2015, 01:33:42 AM
 #130


Quote
Charlie Lee ‏@SatoshiLite  2h2 hours ago
@akirodic @coinbase I support increasing the block size also, just not the way BitcoinXT is doing it.

BitcoinXT BIP 101 forks becomes a non-issue if the core devs decide to increase the blocksize, as Coinbase and Charlie Lee and many others believe it should be. They've got months until January rolls around - let's see if they can get it together before then.

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August 21, 2015, 01:38:24 AM
 #131

BitcoinXT BIP 101 forks becomes a non-issue if the core devs decide to increase the blocksize

The core devs have multiple BIPs for bigger blocks working their way through the proper channels.

Quick, move the goalposts again so as to make XT appear reasonable despite its checkpoints/spying/TorBlock/"final call"/weak "75%" threshold/etc.


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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August 21, 2015, 01:42:58 AM
 #132


This project can damage to Bitcoin network . how it is interesting ? .... Anyway
Now , We know problems and the question is what is the final solution ? Is there any possible solution ?

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August 21, 2015, 01:47:41 AM
 #133

BitcoinXT BIP 101 forks becomes a non-issue if the core devs decide to increase the blocksize

The core devs have multiple BIPs for bigger blocks working their way through the proper channels.

Quick, move the goalposts again so as to make XT appear reasonable despite its checkpoints/spying/TorBlock/"final call"/weak "75%" threshold/etc.

I'm so glad there's a proper channels police in bitcoin to save us all. Wink

Yes, I'm well aware there are BIPs although some of them are a joke and you know it. Pieter's unnumbered BIP doesn't increase the block size to 2MB until 4 years from now, Garza's 2MB BIP 102 seems a joke given how well it was accepted by the other core devs. Things are progressing really well - I'm sure they'll come to consensus any year now.

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August 21, 2015, 01:48:17 AM
 #134

This project can damage to Bitcoin network . how it is interesting ? .... Anyway
We know the problems and the question is what is the final solution ?

The project is interesting because it *might* damage Bitcoin.  Not many things can do that.

The solution is running and mining blocks with NotXT nodes.

Contact your favorite pool ops/devs and ask them to add a port for NotXT miners.

When XT is lulled into a false sense of security, we spring the trap and kill it.


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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August 21, 2015, 01:52:42 AM
 #135

This project can damage to Bitcoin network . how it is interesting ? .... Anyway
We know the problems and the question is what is the final solution ?

The project is interesting because it *might* damage Bitcoin.  Not many things can do that.

The solution is running and mining blocks with NotXT nodes.

Contact your favorite pool ops/devs and ask them to add a port for NotXT miners.

When XT is lulled into a false sense of security, we spring the trap and kill it.

It's the NoXT supporters who could do the most damage, actually. By itself XT either gets to 75% or it doesn't. With NoXT, it's more likely that we could get to a true 50/50 split for mining power and yet still trigger larger blocks. That'll cause all sorts of drama and for most of us will just mean that we won't do transactions for a few days while the mess sorts itself out. To use a classic movie quote:

"Konovalov Crewman: Torpedo, Dead Ahead!"

"Andrei Bonovia: [to Captain Tupolev] You arrogant ass! You've killed us!"

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August 21, 2015, 01:53:48 AM
 #136

BitcoinXT BIP 101 forks becomes a non-issue if the core devs decide to increase the blocksize

The core devs have multiple BIPs for bigger blocks working their way through the proper channels.

Quick, move the goalposts again so as to make XT appear reasonable despite its checkpoints/spying/TorBlock/"final call"/weak "75%" threshold/etc.

I'm so glad there's a proper channels police in bitcoin to save us all. Wink

Yes, I'm well aware there are BIPs although some of them are a joke and you know it. Pieter's unnumbered BIP doesn't increase the block size to 2MB until 4 years from now, Garza's 2MB BIP 102 seems a joke given how well it was accepted by the other core devs. Things are progressing really well - I'm sure they'll come to consensus any year now.

Your disdain for the value of the adversarial process (IE fighting features) is noted, as is your preference for controversial, dramatic "reckless" vanity forks.

The proper channels of the BIP process have kept Bitcoin going this long, and are based on time-tested FOSS best practices.

You disdain for them and eagerness to grant Mike "Final Call" Heam unlimited power are noted as well.   Wink


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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August 21, 2015, 01:56:06 AM
 #137

Are there any exchanges with Bitcoin xt at the moment? Huh

That would be an interesting experiment:

Set up an exchange such that before the fork all deposits of BTC credit the user's BTC and BXT accounts with the amount of the deposit. Then let the users trade BTC for BXT on a market. Forbid withdrawals until after the fork.

So I deposit 1 BTC today, get 1 BTC and 1 BXT in my exchange accounts, and sell the 1 BXT for 1 BTC. So I have 2 BTC and 2 BXT in my exchange accounts.

After the fork the exchange is careful to make sure that all withdrawals are valid only on the fork on which they belong, so I withdraw my 2 BTC and have doubled my money - so long as the BXT fork doesn't "win" (in which case I have lost 1 BTC, and the guy I traded with has doubled up).

There would need to be a rule about what happens if the fork doesn't happen by a certain date. I guess all trades would be cancelled and everyone would get their BTC back. Or alternatively it could be considered that since the fork didn't happen, all BXT account balances are worthless and BTC balances stand.

The exchange rate on such a market would be a much better indicator of how the economic majority feels about the BTC vs. BXT debate than anything we currently have.

I remember something similar happened after MtGox froze withdrawals, before it became obvious that MtGox dollars were worthless.

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August 21, 2015, 01:57:33 AM
 #138

This project can damage to Bitcoin network . how it is interesting ? .... Anyway
We know the problems and the question is what is the final solution ?

The project is interesting because it *might* damage Bitcoin.  Not many things can do that.

The solution is running and mining blocks with NotXT nodes.

Contact your favorite pool ops/devs and ask them to add a port for NotXT miners.

When XT is lulled into a false sense of security, we spring the trap and kill it.

It's the NoXT supporters who could do the most damage, actually. By itself XT either gets to 75% or it doesn't. With NoXT, it's more likely that we could get to a true 50/50 split for mining power and yet still trigger larger blocks. That'll cause all sorts of drama and for most of us will just mean that we won't do transactions for a few days while the mess sorts itself out. To use a classic movie quote:

"Konovalov Crewman: Torpedo, Dead Ahead!"

"Andrei Bonovia: [to Captain Tupolev] You arrogant ass! You've killed us!"

Great movie, bad analogy.   Cheesy

Ever heard How Reddit Got Huge?
I do expect that NotXT will backfire.

'We fake it, until they make it' is certainly a factor.

But every bit of faked support gives the economic veto power (IE MPEX's GavinCoin short) more leverage.

I don't think it will even get to that point.

If NotXT (and the devastating addition risk it creates for first mover defections) doesn't sufficiently demoralize the Gavinistas, the FUD about XT's hidden anti-Tor/pro-panopticon code will.   Cheesy



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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
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Buy XMR with fiat
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August 21, 2015, 02:13:54 AM
 #139


'We fake it, until they make it' is certainly a factor.

But every bit of faked support gives the economic veto power (IE MPEX's GavinCoin short) more leverage.

I don't think it will even get to that point.

If NotXT (and the devastating addition risk it creates for first mover defections) doesn't sufficiently demoralize the Gavinistas, the FUD about XT's hidden anti-Tor/pro-panopticon code will.   Cheesy

So XT puts out a proposal requiring a vote. NoXT gambles with everyone's value using deceipt while hoping that it doesn't put the hashing power over the top. There can be no argument here - this is the riskiest part of the entire endeavor.

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August 21, 2015, 02:17:38 AM
 #140

Are there any exchanges with Bitcoin xt at the moment? Huh

That would be an interesting experiment:

Set up an exchange such that before the fork all deposits of BTC credit the user's BTC and BXT accounts with the amount of the deposit. Then let the users trade BTC for BXT on a market. Forbid withdrawals until after the fork.

So I deposit 1 BTC today, get 1 BTC and 1 BXT in my exchange accounts, and sell the 1 BXT for 1 BTC. So I have 2 BTC and 2 BXT in my exchange accounts.

After the fork the exchange is careful to make sure that all withdrawals are valid only on the fork on which they belong, so I withdraw my 2 BTC and have doubled my money - so long as the BXT fork doesn't "win" (in which case I have lost 1 BTC, and the guy I traded with has doubled up).

There would need to be a rule about what happens if the fork doesn't happen by a certain date. I guess all trades would be cancelled and everyone would get their BTC back. Or alternatively it could be considered that since the fork didn't happen, all BXT account balances are worthless and BTC balances stand.

The exchange rate on such a market would be a much better indicator of how the economic majority feels about the BTC vs. BXT debate than anything we currently have.

I remember something similar happened after MtGox froze withdrawals, before it became obvious that MtGox dollars were worthless.

If Bitcoin forks in January and there isn't something close to a 50/50 split, you can be damn sure that miners, merchants, exchanges are going to pick the winner real fast, no matter which side it's on. The market you are talking about would evaporate nearly instantly.

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