Greece Cannot Pay, Greece Will Not Pay

[n2004al]

For sure the Greeks will not be able to pay the debts. Not now and not ever. The problem is how much that and all the possible solutions will affect the everyday life of them. For this must be harder to make prediction. Because for this question is fighting Tsipras and all the other Greek politicians.

Who bet that the Greeks will continue to do the "dolce vita" even with the every kind of restrictions they must have from the countries who give them the money?

Hope to be wrong.... But is a worthless hope.

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[greBit]

They need a kind of inspiration of Aristotle,Socrates,Demosthenes,Plato and the great Greek philosophers any of them would tell them to do.

[qiwoman2]

They need a kind of inspiration of Aristotle,Socrates,Demosthenes,Plato and the great Greek philosophers any of them would tell them to do.

LOL This is hilarious, thanks for the Giggle..Well the debt certainly can't be paid off within the next three generations unless thew debt gets restructured with a serious haircut. I want to see the EUROZONE peeps shave the debt at least by 605 like they did for Germany after world war two lol.

[Zorrocoin]

There going bankrupt and they'll probably sonnet or later start using bitcoin

they have other 3 years of fund from the central european bank, they have their ass covered for now, but they need to plan all the changes to be done to fix all the issue with their country, so taxes, pension ecc...

they will not use bitcoin, no governments will adopt bitcoin, the only people that can do it are the citizens and not a single entity like a government or banks...

Exactly. What  has happened is poignant. They have compensation for the moment from the central bank  , but it will take a long time for them to cover all the damage that has taken place.  Of course ,bitcoin is not a viable option for them, not for the people for now  nor for the government or banks which is kinda never gonna happen. (for the banks ) to adopt BTC.

[BillyBobZorton]

There going bankrupt and they'll probably sonnet or later start using bitcoin

they have other 3 years of fund from the central european bank, they have their ass covered for now, but they need to plan all the changes to be done to fix all the issue with their country, so taxes, pension ecc...

they will not use bitcoin, no governments will adopt bitcoin, the only people that can do it are the citizens and not a single entity like a government or banks...

Exactly. What  has happened is poignant. They have compensation for the moment from the central bank  , but it will take a long time for them to cover all the damage that has taken place.  Of course ,bitcoin is not a viable option for them, not for the people for now  nor for the government or banks which is kinda never gonna happen. (for the banks ) to adopt BTC.

The people can perfectly start using BTC on their own, we don't need to wait for institutions to jump in because they will most likely never do it. Anyway, in 10 years, a 10 year old will already know how to use BTC and recieve and send payments. By the time he is 18, do you think he is going to open a bank account? do you think he will like the fees, the waiting 3 days for an operation to get confirmed.. and all the rest of the shitty remarks of the traditional banking system? Nope. Thats how the traditional banking system will die.

[n2004al]

There going bankrupt and they'll probably sonnet or later start using bitcoin

they have other 3 years of fund from the central european bank, they have their ass covered for now, but they need to plan all the changes to be done to fix all the issue with their country, so taxes, pension ecc...

they will not use bitcoin, no governments will adopt bitcoin, the only people that can do it are the citizens and not a single entity like a government or banks...

Exactly. What  has happened is poignant. They have compensation for the moment from the central bank  , but it will take a long time for them to cover all the damage that has taken place.  Of course ,bitcoin is not a viable option for them, not for the people for now  nor for the government or banks which is kinda never gonna happen. (for the banks ) to adopt BTC.

The people can perfectly start using BTC on their own, we don't need to wait for institutions to jump in because they will most likely never do it. Anyway, in 10 years, a 10 year old will already know how to use BTC and recieve and send payments. By the time he is 18, do you think he is going to open a bank account? do you think he will like the fees, the waiting 3 days for an operation to get confirmed.. and all the rest of the shitty remarks of the traditional banking system? Nope. Thats how the traditional banking system will die.

With big respect for your thoughts about bitcoin and for the bitcoin itself I don't think that that boy in the age of 18 it is not going to open a bank account. If he will work to live he will have his money only through the banks. So the banks are essentials for our life. We only hope that the banks at his 18 age will be better and will have adopted bitcoin as a currency in its everyday doing things.

[dinofelis]

This is all a big circus by both Troika and Tsipras. They know they'll never get their shit together. The debt is unpayable, Merkel doesn't even want to remove the 30% of debt suggested by Tsipras. We will end up on the start line again in no time, and we'll have another referendum, only this time it will be "do you want to leave the eurozone?"

The point is that debt relief shouldn't be gotten without genuine severe hardship.  I think (I hope) most European leaders know that they won't see their money back.  But there are two problems in applying directly a debt relief:

1) as long as they can pretend that the debt will be paid back, they don't have to take it officially in the deficit of their own states.  No politician wants to be blamed for having added 60 billions to the state deficit because he "allowed" Greece to a debt relief.  As long as those debt papers lie there, they can pretend that the money is still somehow due.

2) There are other European countries, such as Spain, Ireland and Portugal, who went through a lot of harsh measurements, who didn't get any debt relief, and who are starting to surface again.  If Greece gets an easy debt relief, why wouldn't these countries not get debt relief too ?  And the problem is: their debt is too big, it would ruin the whole European economy if their debt were resolved.  They are working hard to become solvent again.  Why would they, if they could just ask for a relief ? 
So the point is that the Greek have to bleed so hard for their debt relief, that nobody is going to want to ask for one again.

[Ingatqhvq]

Why Greece don't leave the EU? it may the only way to avoid bankruptcy of the country.
                                                                                       

[apollofire]

Hi, I think its Greece last option to get out of his problems. They have to take right decisions regarding Economy. But on the other hard, it will be counter productive if they will implement for austerity measures in pensions etc

[Hazir]

Hi, I think its Greece last option to get out of his problems. They have to take right decisions regarding Economy. But on the other hard, it will be counter productive if they will implement for austerity measures in pensions etc

Greeks are planning on increase of VAT of tourist sector. For now Restaurants and Cafes pay 13% VAT - it will increase to 23%. Hotels and other similar services pays 6.5% now and will be paying 13%.
But I am afraid that this is not enough to save them. Their debt is already unpayable at this point.

[crazyjack]

The worlds leaders (not their government, in the eyes of the people government has its own sovereignty and independence, but that is not the case, this is just a mask) want the world to be in debt, cause that is the only way you can enslave a human, a communities, a states, a reigns and in the end the whole world. The world is run by debt. Just take a look which state is the most indebted at the moment.

[n2004al]

The worlds leaders want the world to be in debt, cause that is the only way you can enslave a human, a communities, a states, a reigns and in the end the whole world. The world is run by debt. Just take a look which state is the most indebted at the moment.

Big words but for me are a paranoia. If all the leaders are such the human kind is dead. The leaders are created and elected by the people. If the peoples of all the world are so stupid to create and elect such people we are truly at the end.

The debt is only a economic tool that is used in difficulties, needs or even desires. Everyone in difficulties, in need or to fulfill a desire which want money create a debt. Then work to pay it. Who is responsible take a debt that can afford. Who is irresponsible think only about new ways to take debt over debts.

The same for the leaders. There are responsible and irresponsible ones. Greece, most of the times, was governed by irresponsible leaders. End of the story.

[CEG5952]

They need a kind of inspiration of Aristotle,Socrates,Demosthenes,Plato and the great Greek philosophers any of them would tell them to do.

I don't think that's gonna help right now. Greece needs a slap in the face to get back on the right track and work it out otherwise if they run back to drachma, it will be the most worthless money in the world.

[Scamc0p]

I have many Greek friends and they say with the increase of unemployment, the crime rate has increased. You have to be more vigilant for pick pockets on the streets and theft has increased dramatically. Mostly things like phones, cameras and money clips.
The prices on food hasn't changed much and prices have stay reletively the same.

So this talk on increases in VAT for tourists is ok by my friend  
He lives in a rural area where he doesn't care much what happens in the big cities.

[n2004al]

If the rate of crime will continue to increase this it will be a very big problem for the Greece. Not only for the simple people which will be more unsure while going on the streets but for the economy too. The tourists will be less and less and the tourism is one of the major resources for the Greece. The Government need to solve quickly this problem without being returned big problem.

[Amph]

I have not heard of crime rates alarmly increasing. The smart greeks took their money out months ago anyway... the TV watchers... well they actually thought they were gonna get out this without the bank deposits taking a "hair cut" that's cute.

you won't have crimes increase, because no one will buy anything there without money, hell they can't even rob a bank, because they have no money, at least until the new funds arrive from the central banks

the best thing that criminals can do is robbing stuff there and go sell abroad, but it's too tedious to be worth it

[redhawk979]

I don't know why people blame the EU for this.

Greece cooked their books in order to make it so they could join the EU, they were already a house of cards financially before they joined.

[Pab]

...

"What cannot be repaid, will not be repaid."
- traditional

Despite the five year drama on Greece and their attempts to stay in the EU and with the euro, it is clear that Greece will NOT repay their external debts.  Despite this latest "deal", the math cannot be ignored: Greece cannot pay their debts, so they will not.  Some kind of default is inevitable.

In general there are three ways extreme debtors use to extinguish debts (other than paying up):

1)  Inflate them away.  This (as well as number three below) is what most governments around the world are doing.  Printing the money.  An increased inflation rate lowers the real value of the debt, borrow money, and repay in devalued money in the future.  This is easy to do.

2)  Default (don't pay).  This happens from time-to-time.  Argentina has defaulted twice in recent years.  Greece has defaulted many times in its +/- 100 year modern history as a nation.  A large scale default tends to be deflationary, there are perils to a population and government in a country that defaults.

3)  Increase the debts!  Debtor countries, including the USA, can often get away with this as long as lenders perceive that they will get their money back (at least recently-loaned money).  This is the easiest of them all in the short-term  But, increasing debts almost always leads to ever increasing problems trying to pay (or later restructure).  Because at some point, no one will loan them any more money...

*   *   *

Of course, any country just getting into trouble would find that total long-term harm is less by biting the bullet and paying their debts quickly.  The problem is that politicians, and their electorates, only want EASY solutions.  Paying debt is never the "easiest" solution.

Greece is in an advanced state of huge debts (their debt: GDP ratio is around 177%).  They cannot pay them off, at least in uninflated terms.

Greece will default.  The mathematics is irrefutable.  The only question is how and when.  Which of the above options they will use.

Beware.  Prepare.  European debts (US debt too) are a big problem, with big consequences,  that will likely spread here.

Very good post,whan Greece will default,Whan banksters will steal what thay can steal,and than thay will let Greece goes,no mercy

you know about that 50blnto50bln fund,that idea is not new one,mrSchauble did it 25 years ago in east Germany,it causes poverty and east Germany citzens mass emigration to West,stiil after25 years East Germany is Germany B

look link,very interesting http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/17/germany-greece-wolfgang-schauble-bailout


Next big  question is,what will happen whan Russia will be bankrupt,it may happen in two years

[mrhelpful]

I don't know why people blame the EU for this.

Greece cooked their books in order to make it so they could join the EU, they were already a house of cards financially before they joined.

cooking the books is a old thing. most companies do it esp when they want more profits, but when a country does it pretty much hits global level.

as for the repayment, we all know that they wouldnt or couldnt have paid regardless based on past history.

[notlist3d]

No matter what caused it to happen.  I feel sorry for them, I see it getting even worse personally.

But watching lines of people in this day and age waiting in line to get money from ATM and are limited per day is scary.