Greece Cannot Pay, Greece Will Not Pay

[Pab]

For sure Greece will not be able to pay. Not only this credit that Tsipras will have ultimately but even another more bigger will help. To pay the debt Greece must have an economy that produce for itself and for paid the credits. But the economy of Greece is devastated by the lasts governments because the Greece politicians who governed Greece thought for their momentarily interests and not for the best of their country.

Very truth,at the end of year Greece will enter even bigger recession that thay are now,whatever will get new money or not.That new agreement will be reached at the end of September,nowthereare not yetagreement reached in what hotel and where negatiotiations will be

Capital control will stay for 1.5 year,Geece people will be more poor and poor,finally thaywill go to strrets to manifest and will be strike after strike
Some info from Europe.Spaigh cuted his 40% cost of work and now immediatly his economy improved

Italy is planing big tax reduction ,stating that year finishing 2018,it will give Italy 200 bln euro,anyausterity

I think wecan start to bet,what will be first Grexit or Euroexit the end of Euro

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[crazy-pilot]

For sure Greece will not be able to pay. Not only this credit that Tsipras will have ultimately but even another more bigger will help. To pay the debt Greece must have an economy that produce for itself and for paid the credits. But the economy of Greece is devastated by the lasts governments because the Greece politicians who governed Greece thought for their momentarily interests and not for the best of their country.

Very truth,at the end of year Greece will enter even bigger recession that thay are now,whatever will get new money or not.That new agreement will be reached at the end of September,nowthereare not yetagreement reached in what hotel and where negatiotiations will be

Capital control will stay for 1.5 year,Geece people will be more poor and poor,finally thaywill go to strrets to manifest and will be strike after strike
Some info from Europe.Spaigh cuted his 40% cost of work and now immediatly his economy improved

Italy is planing big tax reduction ,stating that year finishing 2018,it will give Italy 200 bln euro,anyausterity

I think wecan start to bet,what will be first Grexit or Euroexit the end of Euro

Totally agree with both, they should have gone for a Grexit, I think it would even be beste to go to each their own currency. You just can't compare countries, their government, mentality and so forth. It was a bad idea from the beginning. The problem however, they just don't know what will happen if it comes to a Grexit, or a Euroexit, there are multiple models they calculate with but, the simple fact is they just don't know. They don't have a backbone, so they keep pumping money in it. They've let to many countries in the EU and in the EURO, greed an shortsighted.

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

For sure Greece will not be able to pay. Not only this credit that Tsipras will have ultimately but even another more bigger will help. To pay the debt Greece must have an economy that produce for itself and for paid the credits. But the economy of Greece is devastated by the lasts governments because the Greece politicians who governed Greece thought for their momentarily interests and not for the best of their country.

Very truth,at the end of year Greece will enter even bigger recession that thay are now,whatever will get new money or not.That new agreement will be reached at the end of September,nowthereare not yetagreement reached in what hotel and where negatiotiations will be

Capital control will stay for 1.5 year,Geece people will be more poor and poor,finally thaywill go to strrets to manifest and will be strike after strike
Some info from Europe.Spaigh cuted his 40% cost of work and now immediatly his economy improved

Italy is planing big tax reduction ,stating that year finishing 2018,it will give Italy 200 bln euro,anyausterity

I think wecan start to bet,what will be first Grexit or Euroexit the end of Euro

Totally agree with both, they should have gone for a Grexit, I think it would even be beste to go to each their own currency. You just can't compare countries, their government, mentality and so forth. It was a bad idea from the beginning. The problem however, they just don't know what will happen if it comes to a Grexit, or a Euroexit, there are multiple models they calculate with but, the simple fact is they just don't know. They don't have a backbone, so they keep pumping money in it. They've let to many countries in the EU and in the EURO, greed an shortsighted.

Varoufakis apparently is working on an alternative solution as we speak. He has said he doubts there will be any deal in august. I wonder if it involves any cryptocurrency usage. Its starting to look an unavoidable Greexit at this point.

[OROBTC]

...

Zero Hedge reports that retail sales in Greece are down up to 70%.  Think about that...

The same article says doctors are leaving Greece...

We have already known for a couple of years that pharmaceuticals are now very hard to get.

Life is going to be very hard in Greece for sometime.  And Russia & China will not save them, R & C are delusions for saving Greece.

[MF Doom]

...

Zero Hedge reports that retail sales in Greece are down up to 70%.  Think about that...

The same article says doctors are leaving Greece...

We have already known for a couple of years that pharmaceuticals are now very hard to get.

Life is going to be very hard in Greece for sometime.  And Russia & China will not save them, R & C are delusions for saving Greece.

Incredible, that may be the only way possible to "stick it to" the bankers.  They want to have supreme control of Greek's lives, well what happens if they all leave the country!  This is a scenario I dont think anyone was thinking about!

[bojan92]

they have to pay their own dept, that is their thing and they should take care of that. But the worst thing in all of this is that the Vat from 13% now is 23%, and you spend more money if you go on holiday there

[Pab]

There is already EuroDrachma created ,it is been presented in GreeceTV and press.Complimentary currency
.More important it will run under umbrella of payservices,exelent service with his own exchange.Supporting 130 fiat money 400 cryptos and some complimentary currencys.Thay wiil have mobile aps desktop apps

very legit,Thay already has Eu financial licences ,Israel,and thay will obtained USA banking licences

It may help Greece very much.Sardigna Island has his own complimentary currency and hissmall local community has nice benefit becouse of that

Looks like Greece will defoult,Secret leaks has been released that IMF doesnt want to be part of new bailout

Thay want huge Greece debt reducton,that Germany is not agree and some others EU countrys

Point is that will be new elections in Spain,Italy,Portugal
If one of that countrys will leave Eurozone,that Euro will fail
In that moment France is bankrupt,his economy is very,very weak.Therearealreadysome talks to create new
north Eu countrys union,France is very nervous

But how much many will lost some greedy speculators when Russia will stop to pay

Will be no negotiations,Russia  will simply not pay

You can read TheGuardian,it is best european newspaper

[OROBTC]

...

Pab

Hey, if France leaves, it's all over.  Presumably Spain and/or Italy and/or Portugal would fail before France, so that would be PIGS and Cyprus even before France.

If France falls Germany falls.

Then you all have 48 hours, max, to get your final preps done before the tsunami hits the USA.  Smart people will want to closely monitor not only Europe, but China as well.  Chinese (Shanghai) stocks are down about 0.5% as I write.

[Pab]

...

Pab

Hey, if France leaves, it's all over.  Presumably Spain and/or Italy and/or Portugal would fail before France, so that would be PIGS and Cyprus even before France.

If France falls Germany falls.

Then you all have 48 hours, max, to get your final preps done before the tsunami hits the USA.  Smart people will want to closely monitor not only Europe, but China as well.  Chinese (Shanghai) stocks are down about 0.5% as I write.

France doesnt want leave,all that EU bailouts are in fact french and german bailouts,that iswhy thay are still puting bln in Greece,problem will be when Euro  will fail,what may happen if any of three pigs and greece will leave Euro

One more thing
Deutche Bank is owning derivatives wort 5x of  all Eu nation GDP
it isvirtual ponzi what need more andmore fresh blood to survive

And there will be more and more about Catalunia wiill separate from Spain,Catalunia is richest Spain area,thay doesnt need EU

China collapse will be problem for China,catastrophe for westerness world

At least China will shutdown stock markets

[OROBTC]

...

Pab

Hey, if France leaves, it's all over.  Presumably Spain and/or Italy and/or Portugal would fail before France, so that would be PIGS and Cyprus even before France.

If France falls Germany falls.

Then you all have 48 hours, max, to get your final preps done before the tsunami hits the USA.  Smart people will want to closely monitor not only Europe, but China as well.  Chinese (Shanghai) stocks are down about 0.5% as I write.

France doesnt want leave,all that EU bailouts are in fact french and german bailouts,that iswhy thay are still puting bln in Greece,problem will be when Euro  will fail,what may happen if any of three pigs and greece will leave Euro

One more thing
Deutche Bank is owning derivatives wort 5x of  all Eu nation GDP
it isvirtual ponzi what need more andmore fresh blood to survive

And there will be more and more about Catalunia wiill separate from Spain,Catalunia is richest Spain area,thay doesnt need EU

China collapse will be problem for China,catastrophe for westerness world

At least China will shutdown stock markets

You raise some good points Pab.

Deutsche Bank ("Douche Bank" to some of us Americans) does indeed have HUGE exposure to derivatives that could create BIG PROBLEMS if allowed to default.  I just do not know much about the conditions of big European banks, I hear that in general they are at least as weak as the big American ones (which are pretty weak).  Nor do I know anything, really, about derivatives exposure in Europe.

Catalunia is an interesting case, thanks for bringing that up.  A "Devolving Europe" probably would mean even more trouble.

China is a Big Black Hole.  No one really knows what would/will happen when China implodes.......

[greBit]

For sure Greece will not be able to pay. Not only this credit that Tsipras will have ultimately but even another more bigger will help. To pay the debt Greece must have an economy that produce for itself and for paid the credits. But the economy of Greece is devastated by the lasts governments because the Greece politicians who governed Greece thought for their momentarily interests and not for the best of their country.

Europe and Athens need to sign a more comprehensive deal than before, because if they fail to do so, Greece won't even get any new loans from IMF.
I think Athens and Brussels started a new round of negotiations on an 86 billion euro bailout after striking a preliminary deal earlier this month. At the other hand, Tsipras is taking shit from Greece’s creditors to do more and include unpopular steps to curb early retirement and tax breaks for farmers. Poor guy Tsipras

[n2004al]

For sure Greece will not be able to pay. Not only this credit that Tsipras will have ultimately but even another more bigger will help. To pay the debt Greece must have an economy that produce for itself and for paid the credits. But the economy of Greece is devastated by the lasts governments because the Greece politicians who governed Greece thought for their momentarily interests and not for the best of their country.

Europe and Athens need to sign a more comprehensive deal than before, because if they fail to do so, Greece won't even get any new loans from IMF.
I think Athens and Brussels started a new round of negotiations on an 86 billion euro bailout after striking a preliminary deal earlier this month. At the other hand, Tsipras is taking shit from Greece’s creditors to do more and include unpopular steps to curb early retirement and tax breaks for farmers. Poor guy Tsipras

Tsipras isn't poor. According to me he made a big mistake since the first day he take the power in Greece. He believed that he would be able to change the mind of  the leaders of the Europe, of International Monetary Fund and the European Central Bank about the conditions of the credits to give the Greece using his oratory and demagogy. He believed to much in his capacity to persuade the others and thought that the others will be convinced by him. Meantime he neglected the economy of Greece which gone worst and worst during all his time in power. For this all the credits that will be negotiated from here to the future will be worsts than it would be before his coming in power.

[g1974ak]

Tsipras seems a good guy. He seems that loves his people and want the best for him. Especially for the people in need. But this doesn't matter in econmy. If are debts they must be paid. This is a rule that cannot be avoided. Even it will be some of the debt that will be granted there are to much other that must be paid. So he must prepare the Greece to work hard and to be prepared for hard times.

[greBit]

For sure Greece will not be able to pay. Not only this credit that Tsipras will have ultimately but even another more bigger will help. To pay the debt Greece must have an economy that produce for itself and for paid the credits. But the economy of Greece is devastated by the lasts governments because the Greece politicians who governed Greece thought for their momentarily interests and not for the best of their country.

Europe and Athens need to sign a more comprehensive deal than before, because if they fail to do so, Greece won't even get any new loans from IMF.
I think Athens and Brussels started a new round of negotiations on an 86 billion euro bailout after striking a preliminary deal earlier this month. At the other hand, Tsipras is taking shit from Greece’s creditors to do more and include unpopular steps to curb early retirement and tax breaks for farmers. Poor guy Tsipras

Tsipras isn't poor. According to me he made a big mistake since the first day he take the power in Greece. He believed that he would be able to change the mind of  the leaders of the Europe, of International Monetary Fund and the European Central Bank about the conditions of the credits to give the Greece using his oratory and demagogy. He believed to much in his capacity to persuade the others and thought that the others will be convinced by him. Meantime he neglected the economy of Greece which gone worst and worst during all his time in power. For this all the credits that will be negotiated from here to the future will be worsts than it would be before his coming in power.

I understand that all his decisions weren't really the best ones, everybody makes mistakes. Its not his mistake exclusively, so for us to put all the blame at him. And instead of pointing fingers at people, I think more concentration should be provided on how to make the debts go away by hard work. There is no substitute to that, and I think that Tsipras is taking it like a man and handling it well, I think he's a nice guy.

[Miracal]

I understand that all his decisions weren't really the best ones, everybody makes mistakes. Its not his mistake exclusively, so for us to put all the blame at him. And instead of pointing fingers at people, I think more concentration should be provided on how to make the debts go away by hard work. There is no substitute to that, and I think that Tsipras is taking it like a man and handling it well, I think he's a nice guy.

Tsipras made all his efforts and really tried to defend Greece’s €86 billion bailout deal with the international creditors. He has always made it clear that grexit is not a choice. many people question that but let's be realistic here. It would have forced Athens into devaluation and going back to the IMF for support again and again and the cycle would keep repeating nevertheless.

[Searing]

Its common knowledge Greece will never pay its loans. It is imho the EU putting Greece in its place so that other countries like Spain etc make an effort to get their
finances together and not go down Greece's road.

So essentially they will play this farce out as long as possible...so that the Banks etc that we're imho pressured into giving these bad loans to Greece by their respective governments  in the first place...get some kind of return on their investment and the Greeks be damned. So the farce goes on. Bad policy decisons by the EU, so the politicians are playing hard ball to cover up their previous mistakes.

[randy8777]

of course greece will never be able to pay its debts. it's kinda like a drug addict. you give him a huge load of drugs, and you'll not hear anything from him for a short time, but when there is nothing left, he'll keep asking for more.

[eerygarden]

Is there any question that Germany will accept debt relief? Are we not approaching a stage where minds are taught that the IMF holds the most sway in situations like this? This is one scenario I can consider.

They might disagree as is reported and the IMF supplies no further funds to Greece, leaving Greece in a predicament. It's one hell of a slow show though. Gambling in the sports arena was far more exhilarating than the bitcoin arena.

[Pab]

 Below you can read  IMF statment

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/30/imf-will-refuse-join-greek-bailout-until-debt-relief-demands-met

Will Germany accept Greece debt reduction,like for now no,maybe symbolic,just a little

Behind that is also fight for Germany Chancelor between Merkel and Schauble.Merkel lost a lot of support in her own party becouse of last negotiations with Greece,Schauble has gained a lot,he wants to be new Germany Chancelor.That will be nightmare for Europe and by my opinion will cause many conflicts in Europe

By the way.He is son of soldier of German elite military forces SS .His father has died during fights in War2,on Greece island Kreta

[chrispap95]

I understand that all his decisions weren't really the best ones, everybody makes mistakes. Its not his mistake exclusively, so for us to put all the blame at him. And instead of pointing fingers at people, I think more concentration should be provided on how to make the debts go away by hard work. There is no substitute to that, and I think that Tsipras is taking it like a man and handling it well, I think he's a nice guy.

Politicians are judged by the results of their decisions, not by their intention. The January they received a partially stabilized economy, with primary surplus and small GDP growth, and now their policy over the last 7 months has created a primary deficit, closed banks for about 2 weeks and even more recession of about 4-5% GDP. Moreover, they have caused a great political instability because their MPs did not support the new bailout which is going to be the government policy for the next years but they do support the goverment! That's complete madnesss!