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Author Topic: Greece Cannot Pay, Greece Will Not Pay  (Read 7927 times)
n2004al
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September 05, 2015, 07:02:15 AM
 #121

...

Pab

I will certainly be interested to hear how Chinese cars are accepted into European markets.  I do understand that if *might* be easier for China to grab some low-end car sales in Greece (cheap cars), but I still would be interested to hear from ANYONE re acceptance of Chinese cars in their markets.

Chinese cars started showing up in Peru maybe some four years ago.  Cheap but low quality.  Counting buses and trucks, there are some 80 brands in Peru alone...  Chinese car manufacturers bloodbath soon?

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HarHarHar

My understanding is that Singapore has a huge oil refining industry and is one of the top two or three transshipment ports in the world.  They also have carved out something of a niche in secret banking, although with capital controls all over the world, I do not know how that effort is going.

Hi my favourite thread on btctalk,there is nice to talk with you here

Some time ago Chinise have bought Volvo,Swedish car maker,Great mark,wondeful cars ,very strong and very safe

It was some shock for Swedish people,but thay said ,wewill never sell Saab,Saab is even better,famous becouse of Rally,same great mark and cars

Than Chinise bought Saab also,thay have investedsome money in both mark and voila ,You have made in sweden chinise cars,best possible,germans cant block sales of both mark,no against chinise

But now i know Chinise will produce in Europe some hi scars.Not big problem,Korean Kia and Hyundai are in Europe from years


Singapore i dont know so much,it is specific area,with many smart business people,mostly Chinse orgin.Singapore is some how window bridge to China,also thay are related to Australia

People you are going out of everything with these posts. Here must be talk about Greece and not about China, Singapore, Korea, Sweden or Moon and Sun. It is in vain write about those nations in a thread open about the crisis in Greece. So attention and mind in what you write.


n2004al

I think it is fair to write about other countries and how they may relate to Greece or its financial conditions.  Many lessons can be learned by looking at other's experiences.

Greece may be looking at a Venezuela-style catastrophe (I don't KNOW that, but it might be).  There are other countries that share some of Greece's problems, and we can look at their actions and results.

So, yes, this thread is about Greece.  But, relatively little has happened there in the past few days that we can really analyze.  So, IMO, it is OK to look at other situations that have some similarities with Greece as well as items like Chinese cars that *might* be coming to Greece.  And then to Europe.

Greece is also a lesson and a warning to the rest of Europe.  Greece may be leading the way re Europe, the immigration crisis there is affecting Greece a lot (along with Hungary, etc.).

Greece and the context of how Greece fits into the larger financial system is fair game IMO on this thread.

You are right. the other experiences count but at the posts I am referring there is nothing that can help of can be as a experience for Greece. I will post you here some of the thoughts that are totally out of the needed experience for Greece:

1. I will certainly be interested to hear how Chinese cars are accepted into European markets.  I do understand that if *might* be easier for China to grab some low-end car sales in Greece (cheap cars), but I still would be interested to hear from ANYONE re acceptance of Chinese cars in their markets.

How can help Greece this thought to leave the crisis. There are no money for eating there and we are talking about buying Chinese cars.

2. Some time ago Chinise have bought Volvo,Swedish car maker,Great mark,wondeful cars ,very strong and very safe.

You think that Greece have money to buy Volvo or some else trademark of cars? And you think that this is the solution for the crisis of Greece?

3. But now i know Chinise will produce in Europe some hi scars.Not big problem,Korean Kia and Hyundai are in Europe from years.

I'm struggling my mind to find the connection between this thought with the crisis in Greece, Can you? And can you find how this will help the Greeks to solve their crisis?

I can find to many thoughts like those. And those are the reason of my post.
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September 05, 2015, 06:54:13 PM
 #122

 So sorry for of topic,lets back to Greece and imigration problem,not so many people know that during last 10 years

about 1,5 mln imigrants from North Africa arrive dto Greece,about 150000 that year,more are coming.All of them have found his new home in Greece,Greeks didnt divide them in Islam people and Chretiene people.There was warning statment of UN to Greeks,that thay have to create refugee camps otherwise thay can experience humanitarian catastrophe.Greece answer was ok but wedont have money we have to wait for EU policy.Evrybody are blaming Greece but Greece didnt get even single penny from EU to help imigrants


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September 05, 2015, 08:02:54 PM
 #123

So sorry for of topic,lets back to Greece and imigration problem,not so many people know that during last 10 years

about 1,5 mln imigrants from North Africa arrive dto Greece,about 150000 that year,more are coming.All of them have found his new home in Greece,Greeks didnt divide them in Islam people and Chretiene people.There was warning statment of UN to Greeks,that thay have to create refugee camps otherwise thay can experience humanitarian catastrophe.Greece answer was ok but wedont have money we have to wait for EU policy.Evrybody are blaming Greece but Greece didnt get even single penny from EU to help imigrants


My understanding of the Brussels Agreement may be way-off here, but IIRC, then the FIRST country a migrant hits in Europe has to take them in.  Which of course is grossly unfair to Greece.  They are on the "border" of Europe, and so Greece receives more than its share of migrants.

Italy once threatened the rest of Europe (a few years ago) to just put new migrants on trains straight to Germany and France if they did not get any financial (or other real) help.  I don't know how that turned out.  Italy DOES have plenty of migrants, and LOTS of Italians do not like their Arab and African migrants.

It is only fair that ALL of Europe pick up the tab if they want Greece, Italy and Spain to host newly arriving migrants.
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September 05, 2015, 08:40:03 PM
 #124

 I can tell you that 1.5 mln imigrants is from past 10 years.Initaly there is planty of Senegali people,but i ve been in Italy first time  in 1992and there was already planty of them.Now is new situation becouse people are escaping from wars.Syria,Erythrea etc.1.5 mln new citzens in 10 mln people country.
Look EU hypocrysy,there isa lot news how Germany is nowcalling for European solidarity how Germany is welcoming imigrants,sure many of them will find his new home in Germany,but Germany is big country and wealthy.There is in fact big demographic crisis in Europe and those  imigrants can help solve that crisis.Now Greece has open his border and imigrantsare moving from Greece to more wealthy European countries.There isstill no common EU policy what will help to solve problem with imigration .Many  political forces are trying to get political capital on imigraton problems.Nationalism .anti islam mixed with terroristic fear
Already in Germany refugee houses for imigrants has been burn.Fortunetly Europe  still remember dark nazi time
and there is strong citzens respond  for that kind of actions
Europe and world need to find solution to stop wars,there is also climat change and disastear in Europe.There was not serious rain in Poland and south of Spain for almost all summer and temperature was extremely hot.No water in rivers,everything is burn by sun.Food,water crisis can be next big issue in all over the world


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September 07, 2015, 07:04:06 AM
 #125

Well Greece can only pay if the interest rates on the loan are lowered and the debt is totally restructured and shaved off enough in order for the GDP of Greece to rise and produce more surplus in order for it to be paid off, Otherwise at present the debt cannot be sustained in it's present force with one million servants being a burden on the national budget and one out of tow youngsters being unemployed and the rich keep evading their taxes and not investing in their country.
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September 10, 2015, 12:41:52 AM
 #126

Governing should be about democracy, say economists
Letter from 17 economist to Britain and EU

Yanis Varoufakis is among signatories to a letter asking Britain and the EU to sign up to a nine-point UN code putting democratic rights – and not the market – at the heart of international governance

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/08/governing-should-be-about-democracy-say-economists
What will be effect of that letter what you think


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September 10, 2015, 03:28:13 AM
 #127

Well Greece can only pay if the interest rates on the loan are lowered and the debt is totally restructured and shaved off enough in order for the GDP of Greece to rise and produce more surplus in order for it to be paid off, Otherwise at present the debt cannot be sustained in it's present force with one million servants being a burden on the national budget and one out of tow youngsters being unemployed and the rich keep evading their taxes and not investing in their country.


Well, I do not know what the answers are to put Greece right.

But, systemic corruption (= worse than average Western Corruption) is, and has been for a long time, very bad there.  They manufacture very little in Greece.

And if I were a rich Greek, I would not want to pay outrageous taxes to support a worthless government soaking me for my money, doing nothing positive with it (other than, of course, enriching government employees, cronies and favored contractors).

I suspect that Greece has a long and hard road before becoming anything like prosperous.

My opinion, I have not been to Greece, nor am I an "expert" (expert opinions are worth not much more than any of ours though).
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September 10, 2015, 04:25:28 AM
 #128

You know all this greece, talk is there a website countdown with the live feed of trail showing how much they owe.

And what something that shows a metric of how many years it would take lol. Also if the website had like a countdown of how many days left before greece riots 24/7.

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September 10, 2015, 05:49:44 AM
 #129


And if I were a rich Greek, I would not want to pay outrageous taxes to support a worthless government soaking me for my money, doing nothing positive with it (other than, of course, enriching government employees, cronies and favored contractors).


And this is the big wrong thought you have. The payment of the taxes serve to give you all the services your states give to you. The police, the army, the order, all the public services without those you can do nothing in your country are paid with the taxes. If all will think like you the country and the Greece for the first will go further in chaos. Those thoughts (partially) led Greece in the situation in which is.
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September 10, 2015, 05:57:25 AM
 #130

Greece is only doing this for more money. They will never be able to pay it back. They will probably be kicked out from Euro Zone too.
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September 10, 2015, 06:02:58 AM
 #131

Greece is only doing this for more money. They will never be able to pay it back. They will probably be kicked out from Euro Zone too.

I agree with this your post. Even me think that Greece will not be able to pay its debt if it is not be restructured. But I think that after some reforms this debt will be restructured and Greece will be able to work and to try to pay his debt.
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September 10, 2015, 03:47:36 PM
 #132

...

Pab

I will certainly be interested to hear how Chinese cars are accepted into European markets.  I do understand that if *might* be easier for China to grab some low-end car sales in Greece (cheap cars), but I still would be interested to hear from ANYONE re acceptance of Chinese cars in their markets.

Chinese cars started showing up in Peru maybe some four years ago.  Cheap but low quality.  Counting buses and trucks, there are some 80 brands in Peru alone...  Chinese car manufacturers bloodbath soon?

*   *   *

HarHarHar

My understanding is that Singapore has a huge oil refining industry and is one of the top two or three transshipment ports in the world.  They also have carved out something of a niche in secret banking, although with capital controls all over the world, I do not know how that effort is going.

Hi my favourite thread on btctalk,there is nice to talk with you here

Some time ago Chinise have bought Volvo,Swedish car maker,Great mark,wondeful cars ,very strong and very safe

It was some shock for Swedish people,but thay said ,wewill never sell Saab,Saab is even better,famous becouse of Rally,same great mark and cars

Than Chinise bought Saab also,thay have investedsome money in both mark and voila ,You have made in sweden chinise cars,best possible,germans cant block sales of both mark,no against chinise

But now i know Chinise will produce in Europe some hi scars.Not big problem,Korean Kia and Hyundai are in Europe from years


Singapore i dont know so much,it is specific area,with many smart business people,mostly Chinse orgin.Singapore is some how window bridge to China,also thay are related to Australia

People you are going out of everything with these posts. Here must be talk about Greece and not about China, Singapore, Korea, Sweden or Moon and Sun. It is in vain write about those nations in a thread open about the crisis in Greece. So attention and mind in what you write.


n2004al

I think it is fair to write about other countries and how they may relate to Greece or its financial conditions.  Many lessons can be learned by looking at other's experiences.

Greece may be looking at a Venezuela-style catastrophe (I don't KNOW that, but it might be).  There are other countries that share some of Greece's problems, and we can look at their actions and results.

So, yes, this thread is about Greece.  But, relatively little has happened there in the past few days that we can really analyze.  So, IMO, it is OK to look at other situations that have some similarities with Greece as well as items like Chinese cars that *might* be coming to Greece.  And then to Europe.

Greece is also a lesson and a warning to the rest of Europe.  Greece may be leading the way re Europe, the immigration crisis there is affecting Greece a lot (along with Hungary, etc.).

Greece and the context of how Greece fits into the larger financial system is fair game IMO on this thread.

You are right. the other experiences count but at the posts I am referring there is nothing that can help of can be as a experience for Greece. I will post you here some of the thoughts that are totally out of the needed experience for Greece:

1. I will certainly be interested to hear how Chinese cars are accepted into European markets.  I do understand that if *might* be easier for China to grab some low-end car sales in Greece (cheap cars), but I still would be interested to hear from ANYONE re acceptance of Chinese cars in their markets.

How can help Greece this thought to leave the crisis. There are no money for eating there and we are talking about buying Chinese cars.

2. Some time ago Chinise have bought Volvo,Swedish car maker,Great mark,wondeful cars ,very strong and very safe.

You think that Greece have money to buy Volvo or some else trademark of cars? And you think that this is the solution for the crisis of Greece?

3. But now i know Chinise will produce in Europe some hi scars.Not big problem,Korean Kia and Hyundai are in Europe from years.

I'm struggling my mind to find the connection between this thought with the crisis in Greece, Can you? And can you find how this will help the Greeks to solve their crisis?

I can find to many thoughts like those. And those are the reason of my post.


Wow China bought Volvo? that's sad to see, Volvo cars were so robust and trusted. I guess it will turn into a pile of shit just like all China manufactured stuff. And even if its not manufactured stuff I assume they will find ways to make cost of production cheaper, ruining the brand.
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September 10, 2015, 09:46:06 PM
 #133


 That Volvo and Saab are still done in Sweden,at least these produced on Eurpean market
But back to Greece,look like Greeks are doing,itcould be good example to all of us

Barter Economy with local currency


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-14/greeks-flock-grassroots-alternative-currencies-affront-euro-debt-slavery

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-29/complete-collapse-greece-reverts-barter-economy-first-time-nazi-occupation

and below not only about Greece but about Barter

http://time.com/money/3962944/bartering-guide/


I can tell you that Barter was very popular in red regime time.both iin soviet union satelaite countrys and USSR
it was very spontenous barter

I think Barter will have great future now


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September 11, 2015, 06:26:55 AM
 #134


 That Volvo and Saab are still done in Sweden,at least these produced on Eurpean market
But back to Greece,look like Greeks are doing,itcould be good example to all of us

Barter Economy with local currency


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-14/greeks-flock-grassroots-alternative-currencies-affront-euro-debt-slavery

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-29/complete-collapse-greece-reverts-barter-economy-first-time-nazi-occupation

and below not only about Greece but about Barter

http://time.com/money/3962944/bartering-guide/


I can tell you that Barter was very popular in red regime time.both iin soviet union satelaite countrys and USSR
it was very spontenous barter

I think Barter will have great future now

The barter is a old system which have no future. The fact that now is used only in the poor country or country without importance for non importance things demonstrate this. If Greece will adopt this system will not resolve nothing. Creditors want money and barter don't give money but good or services.
Pab
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September 12, 2015, 04:33:24 PM
 #135

 I dont care of creditors,Barter has great future together with digital currency use,crowdfunding peer to peer lending
Barter with digital currency will help Greece economy,
you can look at news from Spaign
over 1.5 mln people on the street for Catalunia independence

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/11/catalonia-pro-independence-rally-barcelona-spain

USA is death in Europe there is change


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n2004al
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September 12, 2015, 04:57:12 PM
 #136

You don't care about creditors but you are no one for those. We are talking about Greece. And Greece are made everything to have their money. Then I don't see nothing to do with Catalunia and with the independence of Catalunia in a thread which talk about the debt and the problem of Greece. Greece has told clear that don't want the independence from the European Union with the referendum. To not speak about the other things you wrote. So I don't see similarity in your words with the topic which are discussed there.

Can you explain better please why barter with digital currency will help Greece economy?
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September 13, 2015, 05:13:53 PM
 #137

According to the latest opinion polls, SYRIZA is going to become the largest party in the elections next weeks, but they will be some 25 to 30 seats short of the majority mark. Even a coalition with ANEL and Potami is unlikely to give them the majority. So what next? A SYRIZA - New Democracy coalition government? That will be a disaster for Greece.
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September 13, 2015, 05:44:38 PM
 #138

Whatever coalition will be in Greece will be the same. The road of Greece is traced and cannot be changed. So every government of every coalition will made the same things. Those that will tell EU+IMF+CBE. There are not other movements that can be done.
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September 13, 2015, 06:17:36 PM
 #139

Well Greece can only pay if the interest rates on the loan are lowered and the debt is totally restructured and shaved off enough in order for the GDP of Greece to rise and produce more surplus in order for it to be paid off, Otherwise at present the debt cannot be sustained in it's present force with one million servants being a burden on the national budget and one out of tow youngsters being unemployed and the rich keep evading their taxes and not investing in their country.

I agree, the only way to save Greece is to shave the debt but IMF won't let that happen.

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September 13, 2015, 06:23:55 PM
 #140

Well Greece can only pay if the interest rates on the loan are lowered and the debt is totally restructured and shaved off enough in order for the GDP of Greece to rise and produce more surplus in order for it to be paid off, Otherwise at present the debt cannot be sustained in it's present force with one million servants being a burden on the national budget and one out of tow youngsters being unemployed and the rich keep evading their taxes and not investing in their country.

I agree, the only way to save Greece is to shave the debt but IMF won't let that happen.

Wrong. IMF it is the only of the three factors (European Union and European Central Bank) which agree this option. The other two don't. But I think that soon or later and after some radical reforms the debt of Greece will be restructured.
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