Reverse Dice

[coinableS]

So I was thinking of putting a twist on the old fashioned bitcoin dice game.

a) The user/player puts up a "bankroll" (it doesn't have to be a lot)and they tell the house/server the min/max bet allowed.
b) The server/house will pick a bet amount, the probability and over/under. (this will be hidden)
c) Then each roll the user chooses the roll outcome manually 0-100.
d) Standard dice rules will determine the winner
e) b - d will repeat until the player decides to cash out or they go bankrupt

All of this would be provably fair of course.
What do you think of this idea. If I developed a game like this would you play it?

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EDIT 7/24/15

Here's a prototype I built that uses play/fake money

http://btcthreads.com/testreverse.php

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[cryptster]

I think this is a very creative idea. I would certainly play it.

One downside may be that it would take longer to manually place each bet, compared to a conventional dice game.  But this could be an incentive to place larger bets, rather than a bunch of smaller bets.

[melisande]

The most important thing about a dice game is provably fair I don't care if it is forward or reverse dice, what I care about is been provably fair, if you have that you have me.

[AT101ET]

The most important thing about a dice game is provably fair I don't care if it is forward or reverse dice, what I care about is been provably fair, if you have that you have me.

Exactly this. I'm not sure how exactly you'd be able to implement that on your site.
Additionally, say someone makes a small mistake with the max bid allowance, the system may place some mega bets against the house which could lead to significant losses. Yes the same applies to regular dice sites but users are more careful because they know the system.
What I'd recommend is that by default the max bid is preset to a low level (say max 0.1) and this can then be changed by enabling the feature in the players settings on his dashboard.
Anyway, it's a very creative idea and I'd probably give it a go or two even though I'm not a big gambler.

[melisande]

OP any update about this your project, I am eager to see how it works.

[bitbaby]

I think it be best if you make a temporary game like this and put it up for testing and people can test and see how much they like it with play money, if they enjoy the game you can then make it for Bitcoin and put it on a domain, add graphics and features and launch it fully.

[melisande]

I think it be best if you make a temporary game like this and put it up for testing and people can test and see how much they like it with play money, if they enjoy the game you can then make it for Bitcoin and put it on a domain, add graphics and features and launch it fully.

In my opinion it is like the OP have abandon this particular project, I saw his other thread  Faucet+Dice it seems he prefer that.

[coinableS]

I think it be best if you make a temporary game like this and put it up for testing and people can test and see how much they like it with play money, if they enjoy the game you can then make it for Bitcoin and put it on a domain, add graphics and features and launch it fully.

In my opinion it is like the OP have abandon this particular project, I saw his other thread  Faucet+Dice it seems he prefer that.

Abandon is such a harsh word 
I have put it on hold for now, but have not abandoned the idea and yes I've been working on my faucet+dice instead. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1128309.msg11919027#msg11919027  Trying to decide which method of provably fair I'm going to use.

[melisande]

I think it be best if you make a temporary game like this and put it up for testing and people can test and see how much they like it with play money, if they enjoy the game you can then make it for Bitcoin and put it on a domain, add graphics and features and launch it fully.

In my opinion it is like the OP have abandon this particular project, I saw his other thread  Faucet+Dice it seems he prefer that.

Abandon is such a harsh word 
I have put it on hold for now, but have not abandoned the idea and yes I've been working on my faucet+dice instead. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1128309.msg11919027#msg11919027  Trying to decide which method of provably fair I'm going to use.

coinableS, I am sorry for my choice of word, I agreed it is rather too harsh but it would not have come from me if you had told us in this thread.
I am also interested in your second project and I am watching the two threads.

[coinableS]

coinableS, I am sorry for my choice of word, I agreed it is rather too harsh but it would not have come from me if you had told us in this thread.
I am also interested in your second project and I am watching the two threads.

I appreciate you taking interest in my projects. I have basic working prototype for reverse dice that I hammered out today.
I should have a version I'll post here on Saturday or Sunday so you can test it out.

[melisande]

coinableS, I am sorry for my choice of word, I agreed it is rather too harsh but it would not have come from me if you had told us in this thread.
I am also interested in your second project and I am watching the two threads.

I appreciate you taking interest in my projects. I have basic working prototype for reverse dice that I hammered out today.
I should have a version I'll post here on Saturday or Sunday so you can test it out.

Congratulations, I will like to try the reverse dice method just post the url link here tomorrow when done.

[coinableS]

Ok here's the working prototype you can test out. It uses play money so you don't have to deposit anything.

http://btcthreads.com/testreverse.php

[melisande]

This is great, I have tried it and won severally and I hope it will be like that when a deposit is made for real game.
I do not see anywhere that my btc address is required, so how will the winnings be cash out?

[coinableS]

This is great, I have tried it and won severally and I hope it will be like that when a deposit is made for real game.
I do not see anywhere that my btc address is required, so how will the winnings be cash out?

This is only a prototype with play money, you cannot cash out.

[DiamondCardz]

Your concept in the OP would be heavily sided towards the user, i.e. +EV. No sane gambling site would implement this unfortunately.

Here's the thing: A rational user will never place their choice of dice roll, say, below 45 or above 55. Doing this immediately makes any bet made by the site that aims for below 45 or above 55 obsolete. Yes, bets by the computer of say above 30 will still occur. But this means that any bet made by the computer of below 45 or above 55 will always result in a loss. At this point you may say that, with the above/below modifier, it's still going to be a 50% chance of winning/losing. The thing with this, is that the computer is likely to make, due to it's completely random calculations, a large variety of bets, not just bets with 50/50 chances. I'm not going to code a simulation for this at this time, but at the end of the day something like this will probably end +EV for the user.

[coinableS]

Your concept in the OP would be heavily sided towards the user, i.e. +EV. No sane gambling site would implement this unfortunately.

Here's the thing: A rational user will never place their choice of dice roll, say, below 45 or above 55. Doing this immediately makes any bet made by the site that aims for below 45 or above 55 obsolete. Yes, bets by the computer of say above 30 will still occur. But this means that any bet made by the computer of below 45 or above 55 will always result in a loss. At this point you may say that, with the above/below modifier, it's still going to be a 50% chance of winning/losing. The thing with this, is that the computer is likely to make, due to it's completely random calculations, a large variety of bets, not just bets with 50/50 chances. I'm not going to code a simulation for this at this time, but at the end of the day something like this will probably end +EV for the user.

What if the computer is more AI and not making random bets but instead behave like a gambler would on any other site? If they see the roll keeps coming up between 45 & 55 then it will pick a target within that range so that it always wins.

[melisande]

This is great, I have tried it and won severally and I hope it will be like that when a deposit is made for real game.
I do not see anywhere that my btc address is required, so how will the winnings be cash out?

This is only a prototype with play money, you cannot cash out.

OK, the prototype does not include a deposit option as well, so far it is a pretty nice design, so when will you launch the real thing.

[coinableS]

when will you launch the real thing.

Not sure yet, I still need to test some more things and figure out the best way to give the house an edge. Possibly thinking of having the computer martingale it's bets against the user every so often...

[melisande]

when will you launch the real thing.

Not sure yet, I still need to test some more things and figure out the best way to give the house an edge. Possibly thinking of having the computer martingale it's bets against the user every so often...

No problem then just keep this thread alive I will be checking it daily.

[DiamondCardz]

Your concept in the OP would be heavily sided towards the user, i.e. +EV. No sane gambling site would implement this unfortunately.

Here's the thing: A rational user will never place their choice of dice roll, say, below 45 or above 55. Doing this immediately makes any bet made by the site that aims for below 45 or above 55 obsolete. Yes, bets by the computer of say above 30 will still occur. But this means that any bet made by the computer of below 45 or above 55 will always result in a loss. At this point you may say that, with the above/below modifier, it's still going to be a 50% chance of winning/losing. The thing with this, is that the computer is likely to make, due to it's completely random calculations, a large variety of bets, not just bets with 50/50 chances. I'm not going to code a simulation for this at this time, but at the end of the day something like this will probably end +EV for the user.

What if the computer is more AI and not making random bets but instead behave like a gambler would on any other site? If they see the roll keeps coming up between 45 & 55 then it will pick a target within that range so that it always wins.

The design described by your OP would already be somewhat hard to implement with provable fairness, though it may still be possible. Having a kind of "AI" would negate this and make any kind of provable fairness impossible, as you are now leaving the choice of the computer 100% down to itself rather than from a provably fair source.

[coinableS]

Your concept in the OP would be heavily sided towards the user, i.e. +EV. No sane gambling site would implement this unfortunately.

Here's the thing: A rational user will never place their choice of dice roll, say, below 45 or above 55. Doing this immediately makes any bet made by the site that aims for below 45 or above 55 obsolete. Yes, bets by the computer of say above 30 will still occur. But this means that any bet made by the computer of below 45 or above 55 will always result in a loss. At this point you may say that, with the above/below modifier, it's still going to be a 50% chance of winning/losing. The thing with this, is that the computer is likely to make, due to it's completely random calculations, a large variety of bets, not just bets with 50/50 chances. I'm not going to code a simulation for this at this time, but at the end of the day something like this will probably end +EV for the user.

What if the computer is more AI and not making random bets but instead behave like a gambler would on any other site? If they see the roll keeps coming up between 45 & 55 then it will pick a target within that range so that it always wins.

The design described by your OP would already be somewhat hard to implement with provable fairness, though it may still be possible. Having a kind of "AI" would negate this and make any kind of provable fairness impossible, as you are now leaving the choice of the computer 100% down to itself rather than from a provably fair source.

Provably fair means the bet is set in stone on the server side before the user places there's and it is not changed. Using a hash of the outcome upfront proves that the bet was not changed based on the users input. Especially in a design like this, it can not be 100% random.

[neochiny]

i think it will not click!!! why not make a unique game.. like the color games... i think it will be fun too... i did not yet saw games like that here in internet.

[noel57]

OP please note with seriousness that a lot of people are waiting for the lunch of this great innovations.

[DiamondCardz]

Provably fair means the bet is set in stone on the server side before the user places there's and it is not changed. Using a hash of the outcome upfront proves that the bet was not changed based on the users input. Especially in a design like this, it can not be 100% random.

Can a provably fair implementation be worked into a computer that works more like AI?

I don't think so.

OP please note with seriousness that a lot of people are waiting for the lunch of this great innovations.

Only if it's provably fair.

[coinableS]

Provably fair means the bet is set in stone on the server side before the user places there's and it is not changed. Using a hash of the outcome upfront proves that the bet was not changed based on the users input. Especially in a design like this, it can not be 100% random.

Can a provably fair implementation be worked into a computer that works more like AI?

I don't think so.

OP please note with seriousness that a lot of people are waiting for the lunch of this great innovations.

Only if it's provably fair.

I think this is going to have to go on the back burner for a while.

It would have to be AI in this type of design since the computer is acting as the gambler and the user is only acting as the bankroll and they get to choose the outcome of each roll. If it were 100% random, the user would just select 47 or some other middle number every single time so that the multiplier would always be low for the AI gambler.

If people think AI is not provably fair because it's not random, even though the computer chooses it's bet BEFORE the user and it's hashed to prove it hasn't been changed, then there's no point in launching. I'm not looking to get labeled as a scammer so if there's any question to the fairness of the current prototype I posted I will not move forward.

[noel57]

Provably fair means the bet is set in stone on the server side before the user places there's and it is not changed. Using a hash of the outcome upfront proves that the bet was not changed based on the users input. Especially in a design like this, it can not be 100% random.

Can a provably fair implementation be worked into a computer that works more like AI?

I don't think so.

OP please note with seriousness that a lot of people are waiting for the lunch of this great innovations.

Only if it's provably fair.

I think someone have asked him that before and he said provably fair is the watch word of casinos and his own will not be an exceptions.