Peter Todd calls dash snake oil.

[eizh]

A viewkey is not remotely a substitute for transparency. In fact it's an example of exactly the design cludge I'm talking about since it's a compromise between transparency and privacy - without enhancing either.

What are you talking about--I can let people view my transactions with a viewkey, so the tax man is satisfied which all the transparency I need. Never mind that Smooth just corrected all your misconceptions. But keep on harping about it while you shilling your snake oil. I've got the money I want.

You're wasting your time. Let's recall toknormal is the guy that said "Cryptography has never been a significant part of cryptocurrency - even though it may share the first few letters." -- nicely cached by Google for everyone to see.

Zero technical knowledge. He's simply stringing words together that he doesn't understand in an attempt to sound smart. You would have a deeper conversation with a chatbot.

[toknormal]

It has nothing to do with "good money" or "audits."

I'm sorry tok, you are just horribly confused and (likely willfully) ignorant.

Yes - you like to make that accusation about my appraisals periodically, but the debate is about whether a public blockchain or a cryptographically obscured one better supports the classic properties of money. I'm not confused about that and certainly not willfully ignorant because it very much is to with "good money" and very much is to do with"audits".

I feel a bit like a contractor arguing with a bunch of clueless programmers who have every idea of the solution and no idea of the problem, so I doubt we'll get much further in this exchange. In the meantime, the "auditability" argument is easily soved - just post one.

[smooth]

It has nothing to do with "good money" or "audits."

I'm sorry tok, you are just horribly confused and (likely willfully) ignorant.

Yes - you like to make that accusation about my appraisals periodically, but the debate is about whether a public blockchain or a cryptographically obscured one better supports the classic properties of money.

Not on this thread it isn't. The debate is whether Dash is snake oil and whether Peter Todd is better qualified to answer that than you are. The answers are yes and yes.

[Nxtblg]

Gold does not have a universal directory of past transactions. Nor does cash.

Yeah, but cash does have  a unique serial number. I should know because I have this little beauty in my possession:

Of course, its intrinsic value is only one Canadian dollar.

[Lukas_Jackson]

The money I want is simple: about everyone takes it, it's fungible, and it won't be traced back to me--like a coin, which is even better than cash. Monero fits this definition and i don't need graphics or links or convoluted sentences to explain why it works for me.

So, gtfo, quick...and buy a shitload of monero while is declining and cheap. You don't have to make a new thread in need to atack Dash and on its back make a little support.
Dash is about not only a privacy but something else, and Monero is about being anonymous only in order to support darkmarkets etc. Be fine with it.

What a coincidence. Second time Dash is attacked in ridiculous way
Nicely done guys, you achieved what you wanted...I bought some because as smooth said:

If you buy it you are making a bet on whether or not that happens. Simple as that. You don't buy XMR because you want to use it to buy a pack of gum at your local convenience store. It's 100% speculative. Decide how you want to bet, and bet, or don't bet.

So you know what to do now. It's showtime...second time or third or fourth  

[generalizethis]

The money I want is simple: about everyone takes it, it's fungible, and it won't be traced back to me--like a coin, which is even better than cash. Monero fits this definition and i don't need graphics or links or convoluted sentences to explain why it works for me.

So, gtfo, quick...and buy a shitload of monero while is declining and cheap. You don't have to make a new thread in need to atack Dash and on its back make a little support.
Dash is about not only a privacy but something else, and Monero is about being anonymous only in order to support darkmarkets etc. Be fine with it.

What a coincidence. Second time Dash is attacked in ridiculous way
Nicely done guys, you achieved what you wanted...I bought some because as smooth said:

If you buy it you are making a bet on whether or not that happens. Simple as that. You don't buy XMR because you want to use it to buy a pack of gum at your local convenience store. It's 100% speculative. Decide how you want to bet, and bet, or don't bet.

So you know what to do now. It's showtime...second time or third or fourth  

Look back at the post history, it is your fellow dashers who rerouted this thread into a dash versus monero thread. So prove that evan's coin isn't snake oil or go back to your echo chamber. 

[Lukas_Jackson]

Look back at the post history, it is your fellow dashers who rerouted this thread into a dash versus monero thread. So prove that evan's coin isn't snake oil or go back to your echo chamber. 

Yea, right...and you are...a monero supporter who attacked dash first.
I'm still waiting for your fella with his deanonymizer 

[generalizethis]

Look back at the post history, it is your fellow dashers who rerouted this thread into a dash versus monero thread. So prove that evan's coin isn't snake oil or go back to your echo chamber. 

Yea, right...and you are...a monero supporter who attacked dash first.
I'm still waiting for your fella with his deanonymizer 

The way masternodes work, they may already be monitored and there's no way you could check. 

[generalizethis]

I don't trust this system.  I can't see it and verify it.  What good is it for everything to be hidden completely, to the point where you have to trust that it is working?

With a simple, understandable system that fully protects the privacy of the user,  yet requires no trust - as was always the whole point of the decentralized crypto currency of Bitcoin - DASH is not more superior due to it's complexity, but due to it's simplicity.  If you're such a technocrat that you don't understand this, I can only feel bad for you because the majority of the world will.

LOL. Here's the attack vector Evan created out of ignorance, stupidity or pure not giving a fuck.

The easiest attack is to buy masternodes and ddos attack competing nodes until you own the traffic. Evan claims it's financially implausible, but ignores that nodes are most profitable when there about a 1,000 masternodes (he has a ROI graphic on the dash BCT thread that underscores this). He also ignores that the attacker would be pulling incomes from these masternodes--given that most are held on corporate servers underlies that no one knows who owns them outside of the host and the owner. He also ignores how motivated an attacker may be, that he or another masternode operator might comply given the right circumstances (threat or lawful compliance) and how deep LE's pockets are--silly, dangerous, stupid.

If you trust that system knowing the flaws, you deserve whatever comes your way--except maybe being linked to pedophiles--can you show that link on your explorer?

DOS'ing masternodes doesn't reduce the anonymity set of the transactions or coins mixed before the DOS. If the masternode count drops 50% for example all of a sudden, mixing coins at that moment is not a good idea. It was already suggested a year ago or so that the wallet would take care of this and protect the user during the network downtime. It hasn't been implemented yet afaik, DASH must grow at least 100x at minimum before this (an appearance of such a motivated attacker) would become even a possibility.

DDOS is to control the majority of nodes, not to directly reduce the anonymity set--though by doing so while monitoring the nodes you posses would break anonymity--which was my point. Nice suggestion, but wouldn't an attacker take control of the nodes before any measures were taken, while it was cheapest, and while they could gain the most info for the longest time without raising any red flags? Also, you still have no measure in reality or in the works to stop an organization from using coercion or compliance to motivate a node operator to turn over data--this is even better since the whatevermine granted the first users such a large stash of coins and the masternodes are most likely concentrated in a few hands. But here's the big problem: masternodes are human controlled intermediaries that perform important functions. Whatever breaks dash's anonymity will happen because you trust this moronic system that is begging to be broken. You are playing a game of whack-a-mole and apparently no one in dashland has the theoretical capability to see it or the moral compass to speak up. Snake oil.

In case you forgot.

[g4q34g4qg47ww]

Gold does not have a universal directory of past transactions. Nor does cash.

Yeah, but cash does have  a unique serial number. I should know because I have this little beauty in my possession:

Of course, its intrinsic value is only one Canadian dollar.

Right, but it does not have a universal directory of past transactions. Cash with a serial number is very similar to crypto with opaque blockchain. It can be verified to be authentic, but you can not determine its previous owners by using its serial number.

edit: 1111111

[Lukas_Jackson]

Look back at the post history, it is your fellow dashers who rerouted this thread into a dash versus monero thread. So prove that evan's coin isn't snake oil or go back to your echo chamber.  

Yea, right...and you are...a monero supporter who attacked dash first.
I'm still waiting for your fella with his deanonymizer  

The way masternodes work, they may already be monitored and there's no way you could check.  

So if masternode will be blinded, will it help you?

I'm at poloniex now, forgive me

[generalizethis]

I don't trust this system.  I can't see it and verify it.  What good is it for everything to be hidden completely, to the point where you have to trust that it is working?

With a simple, understandable system that fully protects the privacy of the user,  yet requires no trust - as was always the whole point of the decentralized crypto currency of Bitcoin - DASH is not more superior due to it's complexity, but due to it's simplicity.  If you're such a technocrat that you don't understand this, I can only feel bad for you because the majority of the world will.

LOL. Here's the attack vector Evan created out of ignorance, stupidity or pure not giving a fuck.

The easiest attack is to buy masternodes and ddos attack competing nodes until you own the traffic. Evan claims it's financially implausible, but ignores that nodes are most profitable when there about a 1,000 masternodes (he has a ROI graphic on the dash BCT thread that underscores this). He also ignores that the attacker would be pulling incomes from these masternodes--given that most are held on corporate servers underlies that no one knows who owns them outside of the host and the owner. He also ignores how motivated an attacker may be, that he or another masternode operator might comply given the right circumstances (threat or lawful compliance) and how deep LE's pockets are--silly, dangerous, stupid.

If you trust that system knowing the flaws, you deserve whatever comes your way--except maybe being linked to pedophiles--can you show that link on your explorer?

DOS'ing masternodes doesn't reduce the anonymity set of the transactions or coins mixed before the DOS. If the masternode count drops 50% for example all of a sudden, mixing coins at that moment is not a good idea. It was already suggested a year ago or so that the wallet would take care of this and protect the user during the network downtime. It hasn't been implemented yet afaik, DASH must grow at least 100x at minimum before this (an appearance of such a motivated attacker) would become even a possibility.

DDOS is to control the majority of nodes, not to directly reduce the anonymity set--though by doing so while monitoring the nodes you posses would break anonymity--which was my point. Nice suggestion, but wouldn't an attacker take control of the nodes before any measures were taken, while it was cheapest, and while they could gain the most info for the longest time without raising any red flags? Also, you still have no measure in reality or in the works to stop an organization from using coercion or compliance to motivate a node operator to turn over data--this is even better since the whatevermine granted the first users such a large stash of coins and the masternodes are most likely concentrated in a few hands. But here's the big problem: masternodes are human controlled intermediaries that perform important functions. Whatever breaks dash's anonymity will happen because you trust this moronic system that is begging to be broken. You are playing a game of whack-a-mole and apparently no one in dashland has the theoretical capability to see it or the moral compass to speak up. Snake oil.

NO^

Look back at the post history, it is your fellow dashers who rerouted this thread into a dash versus monero thread. So prove that evan's coin isn't snake oil or go back to your echo chamber. 

Yea, right...and you are...a monero supporter who attacked dash first.
I'm still waiting for your fella with his deanonymizer 

The way masternodes work, they may already be monitored and there's no way you could check. 

So if masternode will be blinded, will it help you?

I'm at poloniex now, forgive me

[illodin]

So if masternode will be blinded, will it help you?

Perhaps not the same blinding you're talking about, but this might help:

It wouldn't necessarily need a complete redesign to shut that attack vector. All that's needed is to prevent the mixing masternode from knowing which outputs (of the mixing transaction) belong together with which inputs. The mixing peers could do a key exchange and encrypt their own outputs with random mixing peer's public key, and decrypt the others' outputs they can using their private key, and then pass clear text outputs to the mixing masternode.

But then again, before that kind of motivated attacker (who infiltrates all the masternodes in the world) appears, DASH will need to probably grow at least 100x, so that's gonna be maybe a year away still.

And sorry about posting OT in this Monero thread.

[generalizethis]

So if masternode will be blinded, will it help you?

Perhaps not the same blinding you're talking about, but this might help:

It wouldn't necessarily need a complete redesign to shut that attack vector. All that's needed is to prevent the mixing masternode from knowing which outputs (of the mixing transaction) belong together with which inputs. The mixing peers could do a key exchange and encrypt their own outputs with random mixing peer's public key, and decrypt the others' outputs they can using their private key, and then pass clear text outputs to the mixing masternode.

But then again, before that kind of motivated attacker (who infiltrates all the masternodes in the world) appears, DASH will need to probably grow at least 100x, so that's gonna be maybe a year away still.

And sorry about posting OT in this Monero thread.

That's a dumb assumption considering it's easier and more expansive now and a dash mining pedo ring is motivation enough. But keep to the shill script; i'm sure snake oil sales is a noble profession in some circles.

[Lukas_Jackson]

...

That's a dumb assumption considering it's easier and more expansive now and a dash mining pedo ring is motivation enough. But keep to the shill script; i'm sure snake oil sales is a noble profession in some circles.

Hey this is OT. Stop calling names

Back to poloniex

After all I will thank Peter for that and you can even blow him for the same. With respect

[generalizethis]

...

That's a dumb assumption considering it's easier and more expansive now and a dash mining pedo ring is motivation enough. But keep to the shill script; i'm sure snake oil sales is a noble profession in some circles.

Hey this is OT. Stop calling names

Back to poloniex

Dumb assumptions are made by smart people when it serves their agenda. The whole thread is calling dash snake oil, so you better get used to getting called out when you bring your weak dash-marketing-spin into play.

[illodin]

That's a dumb assumption considering it's easier and more expansive now and a dash mining pedo ring is motivation enough.

Are you worried this imaginary pedo mining ring would get caught? Or that it turns out there never was such ring?

But keep to the shill script; i'm sure snake oil sales is a noble profession in some circles.

Just trying to keep it in touch with the current reality. I presume you being used to stalled development makes you think all the progress is finished after GUI wallet is released and no further improvements are expected.

EDIT: And this time my post wasn't fully OT.

[generalizethis]

That's a dumb assumption considering it's easier and more expansive now and a dash mining pedo ring is motivation enough.

Are you worried this imaginary pedo mining ring would get caught? Or that it turns out there never was such ring?

But keep to the shill script; i'm sure snake oil sales is a noble profession in some circles.

Just trying to keep it in touch with the current reality. I presume you being used to stalled development makes you think all the progress is finished after GUI wallet is released and no further improvements are expected.

Hoping its imaginary doesn't make it imaginary, and  last time i checked, law enforcement doesn't need much prodding (or proof) to flex their muscles. But go on saying, "Nothing to see here, everything is under control..." I'm sure that the power of wishing will make technical flaws disappear.

[Lukas_Jackson]

...
Dumb assumptions are made by smart people when it serves their agenda. The whole thread is calling dash snake oil, so you better get used to getting called out when you bring your weak dash-marketing-spin into play.

Ok, I am fine with it. Are you?
Meanwhile, let me take the risk where to put my money or support.
If I lose, never mind, if I win, never mind.

[canth]

You guys started this thread to slap DASH in the face with an off handed, inaccurate and mean spirited comment by a so called "bitcoin developer" who is acting childish and insecure.  And you continue to act childish and insecure.  We just want to make sure that anyone opening this thread gets the other point of view as well. 

So called bitcoin developer? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commits?author=petertodd - looks like 60 commits to me. How many commits do you have on any cryptocurrency project? Given any talks? Written any analysis or whitepapers? He has a lot more history of providing intelligent input to the community than you do.