Outside money will only come when we make a new ATH

[Cconvert2G36]

How's the air in that vacuum where you pillage the orderbook and no one reacts?

Side note: Intoxicating, right?

[TheRealistMassiah1]

Well for bitcoin it's relatively easy since the order price levels are very small... =] so when you rake the bitcoins into or out of the market the whole village feels the flames!

[Amph]

i'm not so sure about this, remember doge? outside money in that case were responsible for the huge increment in the price, and they did built the ath together with chinese willybot or whatever you want to throw in it

I don't understand. What happened with doge? Doge made an all time high after its launch. Then it never reached it again, right?

I'm saying that a new hype cycle starts when the ATH is passed.

doge was responsable for the ATH, because attract many newbie that invested in bitcoin to buy doge  they helped the price to grow, so you don't always need rich people to pump, to recall new comers in the pump

[TheRealistMassiah1]

Sigh, "outside money will come" ...

just like ponzi schemes "money has to come" to fuel price increase, bitcoin is not a liquid asset it is a non tangible asset account / commodity contract at best. All of it is based on backless speculative value...

The dream for 1000+ dollars a bitcoin is a wishful dream, but who will be fueling that price increasing? Are you going to find an outside money source? (banks, inv funds) They currently have marked bitcoin as a commodity , and as such no standard liquid value besides perceived speculative value.          (think of it as the dutch tulips, beanie babies, etc)


side note: for those that want more understanding of "asset classes" google "what is bitcoin classified as"  .. some articles: http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-classified-commodity-finland-central-bank/    |    

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-03-25/bitcoin-is-property-not-currency-in-tax-system-irs-says

bitcoin a commodity? hardly.
Commodities: wheat, sugar, corn, oil are being CONSUMED
Bitcoin, once "mined', can be used many times, some might say essentially forever (until it is lost)

You do realized i said commodity contract right .. also right before that I also stated it as a non tangible asset account...

You are cherry picking my statements... and there is a whole crap ton of other commodities you forgot to put in like gold , silver , precious metals etc , and oranges , pigs, etc etc ?

Side note: approx 5% of bitcoins are lost  per annum ( year over year...)  so you are somewhat right about it being lost and you should look into calculating the depreciative value .. Example: type in 20,000,000 - 6 ,000,000(30%) and then do a 5% lost on yield year over year calculation and tell me when you reach 5,000,000 bitcoins

wrong.

a ponzi scheme needs new people to come in so the early people can cash out with big profits. with bitcoin the early people eg that got in at single figures or less will do well when selling but the new entrants are not being enticed into buying bitcoins because of some promised artificial future rate of return. the price of bitcoin may be inflated by speculation but again that does not make it a ponzi scheme. finally bitcoin (as a transmission service ) works at any price level.

the commodity issue is also not really an issue either. it may effect the way a country taxes it etc but users adjust to what ever the local factors allow/permit.

bitcoin is slow to get in new users but we still have flakey exchanges and people have to set up wallets etc so it is not a one button click to get involved. but fiat and visa and western union have been long term in the market so it is going to take some time to get some traction. but bitcoin can grow slowly or fast - it matters not. so long as it survives ie no fundamental flaw found it will continue to grow.

But then you knew that before you even posted didn't you.  

Also "PleaseExplainAgain" I didn't realize you had posted a reply to my post... here are a few articles for you to digest

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/06/08/bitcoin-isnt-the-future-of-money-its-either-a-ponzi-scheme-or-a-pyramid-scheme/

Side note: and some wise words from a multi billion dollar fund manager :
 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/b/c6454137-4042-4d83-a1e4-ed77253b7652

and the women in that video is hillarious as hell... more make up than brains

[sgbett]

Outside money will only come when we make new ATMs, not when we make a new ATH. It's extremely difficult for people to buy Bitcoins, and if we make it easier more people will start buying. When people find out they have to submit scans of bank statements and passports to dodgy exchanges they give up.

Most people want to buy with Paypal when they start off, but if they are lucky enough to find a seller it's usually at double the going rate. If there were ATMs withi easy travelling distance everywhere then more people would start buying. Newcomers just want to go to a shop and buy Bitcoins with cash like they do for everything else (either that or use Paypal).

Having only ever used exchanges before, I used to think it was hard to buy bitcoin. By hard I mean,not really worth in terms of fees/commission unless you were buying a reasonable amount (say $1000+ I'm UK based so I have to do a SEPA somewhere which my bank charges £30).

The other day though I wanted a little bit of quick cash, so I thought I would try localbitcoin. Took a minute to register, fired over a few bits, 6 confirmations later a set up the trade with an 'online' trader, 10 mins later money was in my back account.

So now, I am quite convinced it is no longer hard to buy bitcoin in any quantity.

[randy8777]

new ath will make it to the news, it will then attract very short term investors who only see dollar signs. not sure if that's the right thing to wait for. there are already way too many of them.

[jehst]

i'm not so sure about this, remember doge? outside money in that case were responsible for the huge increment in the price, and they did built the ath together with chinese willybot or whatever you want to throw in it

I don't understand. What happened with doge? Doge made an all time high after its launch. Then it never reached it again, right?

I'm saying that a new hype cycle starts when the ATH is passed.

doge was responsable for the ATH, because attract many newbie that invested in bitcoin to buy doge  they helped the price to grow, so you don't always need rich people to pump, to recall new comers in the pump

Doge was responsible for the bubble? LMFAO. Dude, Doge wasn't launched until December 8 and most people didn't hear about it until around Christmas time. The bitcoin bubble had already peaked. The ATH was reached before Doge was launched.

[Amph]

i'm not so sure about this, remember doge? outside money in that case were responsible for the huge increment in the price, and they did built the ath together with chinese willybot or whatever you want to throw in it

I don't understand. What happened with doge? Doge made an all time high after its launch. Then it never reached it again, right?

I'm saying that a new hype cycle starts when the ATH is passed.

doge was responsable for the ATH, because attract many newbie that invested in bitcoin to buy doge  they helped the price to grow, so you don't always need rich people to pump, to recall new comers in the pump

Doge was responsible for the bubble? LMFAO. Dude, Doge wasn't launched until December 8 and most people didn't hear about it until around Christmas time. The bitcoin bubble had already peaked. The ATH was reached before Doge was launched.

no you're wrong i was selling doge like no tomorrow already after the first day of its launch which was around the time when the whole bubble started

many were buying bitcoin purposely for buying doge, the doge mania helped a lot

[brg444]

i'm not so sure about this, remember doge? outside money in that case were responsible for the huge increment in the price, and they did built the ath together with chinese willybot or whatever you want to throw in it

I don't understand. What happened with doge? Doge made an all time high after its launch. Then it never reached it again, right?

I'm saying that a new hype cycle starts when the ATH is passed.

doge was responsable for the ATH, because attract many newbie that invested in bitcoin to buy doge  they helped the price to grow, so you don't always need rich people to pump, to recall new comers in the pump

Doge was responsible for the bubble? LMFAO. Dude, Doge wasn't launched until December 8 and most people didn't hear about it until around Christmas time. The bitcoin bubble had already peaked. The ATH was reached before Doge was launched.

no you're wrong i was selling doge like tomorrow already after the first day of its launch which was around the time when the whole bubble started

many were buying bitcoin purposely for buying doge, the doge mania helped a lot

 

best one I'll hear all day

[Amph]

it seems that i have confused the double top, there were two high value 1200 and 1000 separated by a dump to 700 before 9 december



still doge mania helped to maintain the peak high enough, notice after december 9

[jehst]

it seems that i have confused the double top, there were two high value 1200 and 1000 separated by a dump to 700 before 9 december



still doge mania helped to maintain the peak high enough, notice after december 9

Sure. The Litecoin mania helped too

[btcxyzzz]

Sigh, "outside money will come" ...

just like ponzi schemes "money has to come" to fuel price increase, bitcoin is not a liquid asset it is a non tangible asset account / commodity contract at best. All of it is based on backless speculative value...

The dream for 1000+ dollars a bitcoin is a wishful dream, but who will be fueling that price increasing? Are you going to find an outside money source? (banks, inv funds) They currently have marked bitcoin as a commodity , and as such no standard liquid value besides perceived speculative value.          (think of it as the dutch tulips, beanie babies, etc)


side note: for those that want more understanding of "asset classes" google "what is bitcoin classified as"  .. some articles: http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-classified-commodity-finland-central-bank/    |    

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-03-25/bitcoin-is-property-not-currency-in-tax-system-irs-says

BS. they can call it whatever they want, but Bitcoin today is best kind of money.

[Q7]

The sentiment nowadays are price driven. When people see the value going up, suddenly everyone will get interested to know about bitcoin. New investment with fresh funds will be coming in. That's the main driver that will fuel further increase. What we need here is something to maintain the momentum but don't forget eventually we will still need to overcome resistance caused by those who will sell for quick gain when it reached their target price.

[MF Doom]

The sentiment nowadays are price driven. When people see the value going up, suddenly everyone will get interested to know about bitcoin. New investment with fresh funds will be coming in. That's the main driver that will fuel further increase. What we need here is something to maintain the momentum but don't forget eventually we will still need to overcome resistance caused by those who will sell for quick gain when it reached their target price.

I think the investment capital will continue to come in regardless of price now.  Lots have been invested in the infrastructure of btc (I think coinbase and other have raised in the $100 million range) even in the current bear market.

This I think tells us one thing for certain, btc is here to stay.  Now as for the price, I still think the vast majority of holders are using btc for pure speculation.  I think the recent run up and subsequent drop shows how easily the price moves based on news, and not true support.  I am still thinking $200-ish is possible.

[Herbert2020]

i say if the dark markets start growing in activity again that alone is going to attract a lot of money into bitcoin like what silk road did back in the days.

but to go higher than $1000 i think we are going to need much more than that. because the dark markets are always have the risk of being shut down and that means another bail out which will crash the price again!

[manselr]

After the 2011 lows of $2, the price double and tripled and quadrupled. Outside money took no notice. Volume and interest didn't fundamentally change.until $30 was breached in February 2013. Then the rise went parabolic. Same thing in November. The price went parabolic after $266 was breached.

The media hype cycle will start focusing on bitcoin again after $1200 is breached again.

Do you remember seeing pictures of lines at bitcoin ATMs? Front page stories on the Wall Street Journal? None of that is coming back until $1000+

Funny thing is that lots of people are going to sell at $1000 at the beginning of the hype because it's been so long since we've had a bubble.

I think we'll not need to reach ATH, but we will indeed need to be really near it to stop triggering whatever idiot with money that hasn't still realized how dumb he looks by not being fully involved with Bitcoin right now. Once we pass the ATH again, there will no be no limitations anymore. All doubts: cleared. All fear: obliterated.
Once we get past of that psychological barrier, the sky is literally the limit. Any wild prediction can become true.

[Chef Ramsay]

farting shot

Just so you know, you have to be especially dimwitted to think that to reach a market cap of 450billion that 450 billion dollars of investment is needed.

Such a misunderstanding means you also have no idea how the stock market or markets in general work.

Anyone coming out yelling 'bitcoin is a ponzi' is obviously either trolling, three years late to the bitcoin party or plain stupid.

Oki dokie seems a fair response to your output on here.

I'm surprised that you don't have trollypop's dirty sock #500 on ignore yet. They honestly stick out like a sore thumb and have the same bs content over and over.

[massimies]

If you build it, they will come. 

[MF Doom]

i say if the dark markets start growing in activity again that alone is going to attract a lot of money into bitcoin like what silk road did back in the days.

but to go higher than $1000 i think we are going to need much more than that. because the dark markets are always have the risk of being shut down and that means another bail out which will crash the price again!

Anyone who has seen what happened to ulbricht will probably think twice about building a site like silk road again.  If only he knew how to 100% anonamously hand off the project to others like "satoshi" did.

And as much as I'd like to see the price go back up, I dont want it to be strictly because of darknet use growing.  I think backpage accepting btc could open the door for craigslist to look into it.  THEN we may see adoption go through the roof.

[Wexlike]

Outside money will only come when we make new ATMs, not when we make a new ATH. It's extremely difficult for people to buy Bitcoins, and if we make it easier more people will start buying. When people find out they have to submit scans of bank statements and passports to dodgy exchanges they give up.

Most people want to buy with Paypal when they start off, but if they are lucky enough to find a seller it's usually at double the going rate. If there were ATMs withi easy travelling distance everywhere then more people would start buying. Newcomers just want to go to a shop and buy Bitcoins with cash like they do for everything else (either that or use Paypal).

Having only ever used exchanges before, I used to think it was hard to buy bitcoin. By hard I mean,not really worth in terms of fees/commission unless you were buying a reasonable amount (say $1000+ I'm UK based so I have to do a SEPA somewhere which my bank charges £30).

The other day though I wanted a little bit of quick cash, so I thought I would try localbitcoin. Took a minute to register, fired over a few bits, 6 confirmations later a set up the trade with an 'online' trader, 10 mins later money was in my back account.

So now, I am quite convinced it is no longer hard to buy bitcoin in any quantity.

How is it possible, that a wire transfer ends up in your bank account just 10 minutes later? I am genuinely asking, because i never witnessed this kind of speed in the traditional banking space.