Wardrick account hacked---trust abuse resolution in sight (finally)

[erikalui]

TC will read this thread and if he wishes, he'll reply. I don't mind QS being in the Default Trust list but am saddened by the fact he sells DT accounts which I hope doesn't go in wrong hands. Selling DT accounts is not only risky but unethical.

erm, as far as i know he stopped selling any accounts at all, you can even see it in his other account ACCTseller, his personal message says so. Im sure he will confirm.

Then why he is still making bids for accounts ?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1127705.msg11913549#msg11913549

And you should say: he stopped selling accounts using his known alts.

I meant accounts on default trust, he stopped selling them, probably because he doesnt have any more, i thought he stopped selling any kind of accounts but i don't know, that's why i said i was waiting for him to confirm.

QS said that when he was removed from Badbear's list, he had a DT account which he doesn't own anymore. I guess he sold it and it means he is still selling DT accounts.

I am glad that you don't appreciate him selling DT accounts.

[1714043380]

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[1714043380]

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[1714043380]

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[tspacepilot]

That means he added your name specifically as one who is unable to send him messages. He is actively trying to stop you from contacting him, I think that tells you everything you need to know. You should respect that and leave him alone.

Thanks for weighing in, BB.  I guess I'm kinda shocked to find that he's ignoring me given our very short and cordial conversations in the past.  I think there's nothing personal in here, so I want to go ahead and publish it.  This is the entire contact history between me and tomatocage:

Hi Tomatocage,

It appears that you have added Quickseller to your trust list.   I'm writing to you to let you know about a smear attack by quickseller against me which seems to have been motivatived by a personal vendetta.

This occurred in late April and I spoke with Badbear about it.  What's below is a message I sent to him.  I should emphasize, I never heard back from badbear about why he removed QS from his trust list.  But once he had done so, it ended the efficaciousness of QS' attack on me, so I considered the matter closed.  I'm forwarding to you the message that I sent to BadBear because, since you have effectively readded quickseller to default trust, you are now vouching for this kind of behavior.

I'm wondering if you can comment on why you decided to add quickseller to your trust list?  Also, I wonder if you can comment on what you think I should do now that QS's lies are once again causing my account to show up as "WARNING"---effectively helping him to acheive his goal of smearing me off of the forum, which as far as I can tell, was motivated by me calling him out for being a hothead and for telling him that calling people idiots was an unhelpful way to behave.

Best,

TSP

I added him because, for the most part, he seems to be fairly adept at spotting scammers. However, pobody's nerfect, so I'll see if he can revisit your ratings. If nothing else, perhaps he can change them to a more neutral rating.

Regards,
TC

This is what I just sent to him:

Hey man, could you go and revisit tspacepilot's Trust rating that you left him? I don't know all the sordid details, but upon brief inspection, that particular rating seems a bit tenuous at best. I recommend changing it to Neutral. At some point in the past I decided that I, and all the people I have in my Trust list, should leave ratings that are as impartial as possible with a strong lean toward giving the benefit of the doubt to a user (ie. sofia26, but that's another story all together). I've had to have several talks with Vod about it since he seems a bit trigger happy with the negative Trust sometimes, so don't feel singled out In fact, there's probably a few other examples still floating around out there where I've been a little heavy-handed with the negative Trust for no really good reason as well, so I'm not totally clean when it comes to that.  Anyway, I'd say just flip those negative ratings to Neutral and we'll keep an eye on his activity in the future.

Regards,
TC

And the next morning:

Thanks.  Let's see how he replies.  (Note: I predict a lot of bile, but we'll see.)

Also, FWIW, he's actually left three ratings during his smear attack.  One from ACCTSeller, the alt he used to dig up the dirt with tradefortress, then one from Quickseller, when he "discovered" the dirt dug up by ACCTSeller.  Then another from Quickseller, where he became exaspirated by the fact that I continued to fight his attack.  This happened just a week before he admitted publically that ACCTSeller is his alt.  But since that's on the record now I think it's important to recognized the sock-puppetry he was pulling on me as well.

Anyway, ACCTSeller isn't on default trust, but to properly resolve this, I think both Quickseller ratings need to be dealt with.

Again, I appreciate the intervention and I hope this helps.

--TSP

Ok, problem solved. Please adjust your ratings for him accordingly

We haven't spoken since.  Isn't it a little weird that he would have preemptively blocked me from asking him about this situation before adding QS back to his list.  It may be that when he added QS, QS told him that he had re-burned tspacepilot and that he wouldn't be changing it this time, I don't know.

Your remaining options are, work it out with QS, try to get TC removed from DT (no), exclusions from other DT members (unlikely), or deal with it.

I would love to "work it out with QS" but he's really not offering any chance to do so.  (1) He's appearing in this thread above, literally mocking me and teasing with money for someone who can "convince him" but it's clear that's an impossible task; (2) It's not even clear what he wants (except to cost me money and to hurt me)---he has no involvment or knowledge of the original situation he claims to be defending.  If he would come out with some list of things he wants in order to forgive, I'd try to do them.  I dunno, it's hard to imagine paying a bribe to make him leave me alone, but I really cannot figure out how he will be satisfied beyone my death or something.  Curiously, only a few days ago he was issuing threats to me on another thread about "making sure I would be stopped".  Do you guys need me to quote this stuff for you?  Maybe I should before he edits it, but I'm just not as workaholic at trying to bring down quickseller as he is at bringing down me.  I don't have any issues here except this dude attacking me.  Why can't I get anyone to at least justify the attack.

Welcome to chapter 473 of the Quickseller Saga..
I want to really point this out, and I can not realize how people seem to persist:

Your remaining options are, work it out with QS, try to get TC removed from DT (no), exclusions from other DT members (unlikely), or deal with it.

I think that I've only had a negative rating once. I did not whine in this section like many do, but I've kindly asked the person who left it to remove it. Engaging in further, meaningless arguments with QS won't solve your problem. You either need to admit to being wrong and improve yourself, or deal with it. You can always make a new account and start over.

What your negative rating by someone on default trust?  Were you kicked out of a signature ad campaign?  Were you being smeared endlessly for months over something you didn't do?  If so, then I admire your ability to "walk away and start again", but after 3 years on this forum with absolutely no issues, I just can't accept that QS can walk up and start making up lies and take away my income.  That seems completely unjust.  And I think you know it.

What's terrible is this, I keep getting PMs in the last few days from people saying that they're sorry about what I'm going through with QS and this default trust nonsense (again!)---that they appreciate me standing up to QS.  When I say to them, why don't you speak up in public if you've got an issue with him, they just write that there's no way they'd cross him in public because they see what he's doing to me.  That he is online writing hundreds of posts per day and will take them down just like he's taking me down.  Basically, dude is about as big a bully as you can imagine, people are scared to speak up to him.  Worhipper was neg-repped merely for refusing to do business with him.  ndnhc was false accuse and possibly framed by him.  I am still being attacked by him.  He's neg-repped me with up to 3 alts (isn't this against the rules?).  What can we do to end this nonsense?

[DiamondCardz]

What's terrible is this, I keep getting PMs in the last few days from people saying that they're sorry about what I'm going through with QS and this default trust nonsense (again!)---that they appreciate me standing up to QS.  When I say to them, why don't you speak up in public if you've got an issue with him, they just write that there's no way they'd cross him in public because they see what he's doing to me.

If this is true, then can you list the names of these people who have PMed you so that you can prove your claims here?

I won't neg-rep the people you name. Quickseller won't. TC won't. (Okay - I can't guarantee QS and TC won't but I make that claim based on the fact I'm 99% sure they wouldn't do that just for them stating their opinion)

[OrangeSeller]

What's terrible is this, I keep getting PMs in the last few days from people saying that they're sorry about what I'm going through with QS and this default trust nonsense (again!)---that they appreciate me standing up to QS.  When I say to them, why don't you speak up in public if you've got an issue with him, they just write that there's no way they'd cross him in public because they see what he's doing to me.

If this is true, then can you list the names of these people who have PMed you so that you can prove your claims here?

I won't neg-rep the people you name. Quickseller won't. TC won't. (Okay - I can't guarantee QS and TC won't but I make that claim based on the fact I'm 99% sure they wouldn't do that just for them stating their opinion)

How funny, so someone can't hate QS or TC? You will neg rep person that hates you? And if I say I hate theymos or badbear does that means I'm a scammer and deserve red? Very funny trust system, we are not allowed to hate someone on default trust, beware of negative if you do !

[OrangeSeller]

I can understand why people only say sorry to him, look what he did. Tspacepilot trolled QS . QS search an old thread just to give him red trust yay! So everyone that hate or troll or stand against QS will suffer the same fate. Perhaps QS search all transaction just to mark all your alt, who knows?

Anyway i like QS scam busting, he has identified a lot of scammer but this thing with tspacepilot is off the limit. Neutral rating is better

[Twipple]

Wow this is really sad that he is in the default list again . It is definitely true that he doesn't do things based on whats real and whats not but heavily lets his ego influence his decisions.
I am sure TC would have read this thread by now , but no idea why he chose to ignore it .


I know I have repeatedly pointed this out but you should also make him aware of how he puts trust on 2 exactly similar cases.  pagalwana , proved earlier to be an alt account of a scammer was given as collateral for a loan . Quickseller initially added a negative trust to the account  . Later that person who got the account asked Quickseller to act as an escrow for the sale of the account and just because Quickseller was getting 1$ for the trade he agreed and removed his negative trust. I actually had an exactly same case where I purchased the account from the person who initially gave the loan . The trust got added just as the same way after 2 months but just because I didn't use QS as an escrow and criticized his trust , he didn't care about the case after that. I believe its definitely not right to have him in the default list .

[DiamondCardz]

How funny, so someone can't hate QS or TC? You will neg rep person that hates you?

I won't neg-rep the people you name. Quickseller won't. TC won't.

Whatever, bro.

[XinXan]

Wow this is really sad that he is in the default list again . It is definitely true that he doesn't do things based on whats real and whats not but heavily lets his ego influence his decisions.
I am sure TC would have read this thread by now , but no idea why he chose to ignore it .


I know I have repeatedly pointed this out but you should also make him aware of how he puts trust on 2 exactly similar cases.  pagalwana , proved earlier to be an alt account of a scammer was given as collateral for a loan . Quickseller initially added a negative trust to the account  . Later that person who got the account asked Quickseller to act as an escrow for the sale of the account and just because Quickseller was getting 1$ for the trade he agreed and removed his negative trust. I actually had an exactly same case where I purchased the account from the person who initially gave the loan . The trust got added just as the same way after 2 months but just because I didn't use QS as an escrow and criticized his trust , he didn't care about the case after that. I believe its definitely not right to have him in the default list .

Why it does not surprise me that people who is against quickseller is 99% marked red by him? You, in this case, you have other neutral ratings by highly trusted members as well, why would tomatocage care about this thread? Nothing said here did in any way prove that quickseller has been giving bad ratings constantly.

[redsn0w]

I think that Tomatocage has already noticed this thread and maybe (like someone said) he doesn't want to conversate with you.

[tspacepilot]

What's terrible is this, I keep getting PMs in the last few days from people saying that they're sorry about what I'm going through with QS and this default trust nonsense (again!)---that they appreciate me standing up to QS.  When I say to them, why don't you speak up in public if you've got an issue with him, they just write that there's no way they'd cross him in public because they see what he's doing to me.

If this is true, then can you list the names of these people who have PMed you so that you can prove your claims here?

I won't neg-rep the people you name. Quickseller won't. TC won't. (Okay - I can't guarantee QS and TC won't but I make that claim based on the fact I'm 99% sure they wouldn't do that just for them stating their opinion)

I could.  But I think it's only fair to contact them first, since what they said to me was that they don't want to be associated with criticizing him.  I would only reveal these people if they okayed it explicitly because they clearly told me they didn't want to speak up for fear of negative repurcussions.  I hope you understand.

I think that Tomatocage has already noticed this thread and maybe (like someone said) he doesn't want to conversate with you.

I find it extremely surprising because I don't know tomatocage well at all, I have posted the entirety of my conversations with him above, and as you can see there was nothing but a short and civil exchange.  That he would have added QS to his list and then immediately blocked me seems weird to me.  For a moment I thought that perhaps he was pm blocking everything and simply looking for correspondence with email.  I emailed him at that moment but haven't heard back.  I don't want to start to many rumors, but there was this weird thing where QS was selling a default trust account, it seems too "conspiracy theory"-like to be true, but notice:

1) QS selling default trust account
2) QS making a public threat to "stop me" in a thread three days ago
3) TC readding QS and blocking pms from tspacepilot just after.

I would love it if anyone who does have contact with TC could confirm that he's aware of this situation and perhaps pass along some rationale about why he wouldn't like to discuss it.  I'm just finding his closed-door suspciously different from what happened last time I contacted him.

I can understand why people only say sorry to him, look what he did. Tspacepilot trolled QS . QS search an old thread just to give him red trust yay! So everyone that hate or troll or stand against QS will suffer the same fate. Perhaps QS search all transaction just to mark all your alt, who knows?

Anyway i like QS scam busting, he has identified a lot of scammer but this thing with tspacepilot is off the limit. Neutral rating is better

If I have trolled QS, it was only in defense of my own reputation, which he made threats against and trolled using many accounts across many threads for months.  If I were to document all of the insults and threads in which he or an alt of his has attacked me it would fill more a small book at this point.   He's not only trolled me, but cost me money now on more than one occassion.  We know that when I admit he has cost me money he sits back and laughs, because his ultimate goal here is to cause me pain because for some reason he has chosen that I am some kind of mortal enemy to him.  Belive me, I really just want the harrassment and lies against me to end.  And I am finding it shockingly unbelievable that someone who behaves this way is getting trusted by the real TC.

What can I do here, people?  How long can this kind of randomly stupid abuse be allowed?

[LFC_Bitcoin]

I'm not against Quickseller (I've never even interacted with him/her) but I really feel this issue needs resolving.
tspacepilot is not a scammer.

Is there no way you can remove this negative trust Quickseller? For the good of the forum?

Please!

Be a good man & end this dispute.
I don't want to get too involved but this does need resolving once & for all.

Look at 'TradeFortress' trust (The guy at the centre of this dispute)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=67058

[Muhammed Zakir]

I'm not against Quickseller (I've never even interacted with him/her) but I really feel this issue needs resolving.
tspacepilot is not a scammer.

Is there no way you can remove this negative trust Quickseller? For the good of the forum?

Please!

Be a good man & end this dispute.
I don't want to get too involved but this does need resolving once & for all.

Look at 'TradeFortress' trust (The guy at the centre of this dispute)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=67058

Tspacepilot did withdrew coins he got using "bot chat". See reference link -- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303613.msg11163154#msg11163154.

Don't mix things saying "TF is a scammer, so no words said by him can be trusted or is true" which is the exact argument of yours and tspacepilot's.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

Even if he did use a bot in a chat room it's not really a scam is it?
I dunno, I'm out......

I just think this needs resolving. Could Quickseller at least change his trust on TSP to neutral? It's gone on too long.
Shake hands & move on?

[XinXan]

Even if he did use a bot in a chat room it's not really a scam is it?
I dunno, I'm out......

I just think this needs resolving. Could Quickseller at least change his trust on TSP to neutral? It's gone on too long.
Shake hands & move on?

Why would quickseller change his negative trust? Using a bot is not a scam or a crime, using a bot to SCAM its a scam, he broke the rules of that specific site to gain profit, its like using a bot to claim from the same faucet without waiting the necessary period of time, thats scamming the site's owner.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

Even if he did use a bot in a chat room it's not really a scam is it?
I dunno, I'm out......

I just think this needs resolving. Could Quickseller at least change his trust on TSP to neutral? It's gone on too long.
Shake hands & move on?

Why would quickseller change his negative trust? Using a bot is not a scam or a crime, using a bot to SCAM its a scam, he broke the rules of that specific site to gain profit, its like using a bot to claim from the same faucet without waiting the necessary period of time, thats scamming the site's owner.

I just don't like to see confrontation. This was supposedly 2 years ago. Is there even any definitive proof or is it just TradeFortress vs TSP? One mans words against anothers?

TradeFortress looks to be the biggest scammer on here except Karpeles - he 'lost' over 4000 bitcoin.

TSP doesn't even trade as far as I can see & this one indiscretion looks to have ruined him.  

That's the one thing about the trust system that bugs me, a user can have 99 positive trust feedbacks but 1 negative from somebody on default trust & it's game over for them.

[tspacepilot]

I'm not against Quickseller (I've never even interacted with him/her) but I really feel this issue needs resolving.
tspacepilot is not a scammer.

Is there no way you can remove this negative trust Quickseller? For the good of the forum?

Please!

Be a good man & end this dispute.
I don't want to get too involved but this does need resolving once & for all.

Look at 'TradeFortress' trust (The guy at the centre of this dispute)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=67058

Tspacepilot did withdrew coins he got using "bot chat". See reference link -- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303613.msg11163154#msg11163154.

Don't mix things saying "TF is a scammer, so no words said by him can be trusted or is true" which is the exact argument of yours and tspacepilot's.

You don't mix things, MZ.  I admited that I was experimenting with bots using TFs approval and help.  I admited that there were a million bots on that site and that I was merely one of many people experiminting and learing about the API. I admitted that it was my first time dealing with asynchronous code and that I made mistakes.  I never found out if or how much I might have gotten from any mistakes because TF was making up numbers (lying!) about how much he wanted repaid.  If he had been more reasonably, it's completely possible that I owe him 10Ksat or something like that.  However, he wouldn't be talked to about it.  He merely said PAY BACK X OR BE BANNED.  And every time he said X it was different.  His first X was like 1.5 bitcoin which I didn't even have at the time (it was waaaaay more than I had withdrawn from his site, ever), then he started picking other numbers but wouldn't say how he was generating them.  Sounds a lot like a scammer himself, right?  Well, what has history shown us here?  And what would you do in such a situation?

Even if he did use a bot in a chat room it's not really a scam is it?
I dunno, I'm out......

I just think this needs resolving. Could Quickseller at least change his trust on TSP to neutral? It's gone on too long.
Shake hands & move on?

Why would quickseller change his negative trust? Using a bot is not a scam or a crime, using a bot to SCAM its a scam, he broke the rules of that specific site to gain profit, its like using a bot to claim from the same faucet without waiting the necessary period of time, thats scamming the site's owner.

You have no idea what happened on that site or what my motivations were and neither does QS. That is the whole issue here, QS has spammed my trust rating with 3 separate acccounts (trust abuse?) over something which is merely an unsubstantiated allegation from a completely discredited source.  You don't know anything about that site or it's rules and neither does he.  He just found something which he thinks is okay to make some kind of smear attack on me with and he's clinging to it for months now as he tries to do as much damage to me as possible.  He goes on and off of default trust because of these vendettas and anger-sessions.  XinXan, if you want to participate in this topic helpfully, try to stick to things you have first hand knowledge of.  When you spread a lie started by TF, echoed by QS, echoed by QS's alt, echoed by you (are you one of QS's alts?) then that's a rumor mill and it has nothing to do with the truth.

[Tomatocage]

I re-added QS to my list because he's good at weeding out the scammers. While I realize that there may be some ruffled feathers because of this, I feel that it's better to prevent people from losing potentially a lot of real money than it is to have a handful of people upset about it. In the end though, your grievance is with QS, not with me.

[tspacepilot]

I re-added QS to my list because he's good at weeding out the scammers. While I realize that there may be some ruffled feathers because of this, I feel that it's better to prevent people from losing potentially a lot of real money than it is to have a handful of people upset about it. In the end though, your grievance is with QS, not with me.

I'm glad to hear from you.  I guess I'm mainly surprised that you would have taken the time to block pms from me, I don't know if I offended you ever, but I certainly have no grievance with you, as far as I know.   In fact, last time you put QS on your list I recall that you very smoothly brokered peace in this unneccesary situation very effectively.  When I saw you had QS back on your list, I was actually happy to see it was you for figuring that you would have him remove his attacks once you saw he had readded them after you had let him go the first time.  Thus my surprise at PM block.

Anyway, as I said, it seems unfortunate that we're doing this publically rather than privately, but here it is: can you talk to quickseller about how he might be appeased to remove his negative rating upon my account?  I have a long reputation of being helpful and causing no harm and the last 4 months of fighting with him over some false allegations has really taken a toll.  What can I do?  Can you help?

--TSP

[LFC_Bitcoin]

There must be a way to resolve this like gentlemen. No more arguing etc.
Quickseller what say you my friend?

Virtual handshake with TSP?
Remove that negative trust that is ruining TSP from 2 years ago?

A fresh start?

And TSP remove your negative trust on QS?
Come on guys, none of you 2 are scammers, we know the truth. Let's catch the real bad guys

[Muhammed Zakir]

I'm not against Quickseller (I've never even interacted with him/her) but I really feel this issue needs resolving.
tspacepilot is not a scammer.

Is there no way you can remove this negative trust Quickseller? For the good of the forum?

Please!

Be a good man & end this dispute.
I don't want to get too involved but this does need resolving once & for all.

Look at 'TradeFortress' trust (The guy at the centre of this dispute)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=67058

Tspacepilot did withdrew coins he got using "bot chat". See reference link -- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303613.msg11163154#msg11163154.

Don't mix things saying "TF is a scammer, so no words said by him can be trusted or is true" which is the exact argument of yours and tspacepilot's.

You don't mix things, MZ.  I admited that I was experimenting with bots using TFs approval and help.  I admited that there were a million bots on that site and that I was merely one of many people experiminting and learing about the API. I admitted that it was my first time dealing with asynchronous code and that I made mistakes.  I never found out if or how much I might have gotten from any mistakes because TF was making up numbers (lying!) about how much he wanted repaid.  If he had been more reasonably, it's completely possible that I owe him 10Ksat or something like that.  However, he wouldn't be talked to about it.  He merely said PAY BACK X OR BE BANNED.  And every time he said X it was different.  His first X was like 1.5 bitcoin which I didn't even have at the time (it was waaaaay more than I had withdrawn from his site, ever), then he started picking other numbers but wouldn't say how he was generating them.  Sounds a lot like a scammer himself, right?  Well, what has history shown us here?  And what would you do in such a situation?

 -snip-

The thing which makes me hard to believe that was a mistake is your bot's name, "b0t". See the bolded part of SaltySpitoon's post -- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303613.msg3270393#msg3270393.

However, as you did not have any scammy/shady behavior, I think its good to change negative feedback to neutral.

Edit: I guess BadBear does not think violating TOS deserves a negative trust.

-snip-
It seems more like a violation of a site's TOS, than a scam, and not really deserving of negative trust. If that deserves negative trust, then so do people who abuse dropbox referrals, or buy Facebook/youtube likes and views, pay people for using their referral links, buy and use .edu mails to get discounts on whatever, etc. All these actions harm the company or other users in some way.

Edit 2: Well, whether returning coins or not also shows honesty of the user.