[ETH] Ethereum Observation Thread

[rdnkjdi]

What is it:

Ethereum raised $15,000,000 worth of bitcoin in exchange for ether tokens & is listed as the 3rd largest crowdsale on Wikipedia.  It is intended to be a turing complete contract programming language that enables trustless contractual transactions in a transparent way.

The goal of the project is to push towards decentralized applications for law, interperson commerce (eBay, Uber, Reputation Systems), financial applications (Decentralized exchange, crypto pegged to fiat / crypto futures, prediction markets) by providing a robust language that easily empowers developers to quickly, stably & scalably develop on top of the blockchain (the core functionality of Namecoin can be reproduced in 5 lines of code)

History:  

It was originally intended to be built on top of Primecoin when the concept first started.  On more research - Vitalik stated that it simply was not scalable enough.  The PoC development language was released prior to the presale in August of 2014.  The testnet has seen ongoing development for a year as well as people programming demo applications on top of the testnet.

(See People's Republic of Doug or IBM/Samsung ADEPT at CES)

Who is behind it:

Originally the brainchild of Vitalik Buterin

Audited by deja vu security

Cloned by IBM PoC on IoT

“Ethereum has vast potential, whereas Bitcoin won’t ever do anything well beyond implementing a currency,”  ~ Nick Szabo @ Business Insider

I spoke with him (Nick Szabo) a couple of times, including in person. He was looking into our software and liked its smart contracting potential, but we had a few conversations where he direly warned us not to go down the path if Xanadu and try to make absolutely everything right and get sidelined by a worse-but-good-enough competitor like the World Wide Web in the process.

~ Vitalik Buterin

Issues


1.  I wish I could find the source.  But Charles Hopkins (who I loved btw) left the project around the time of the crowdsale.  Soon after - Ethereum marketing changed from what I described in original paragraph above to A platform for decentralized applications - Web 3.0

     Hopkins was fairly blunt about the scope creep of the project to try to include messaging, storage & ambiguous "everything to everyone decentralized web 3.0" wording.  Instead of a decentralized consensus language on top of the blockchain - Ethereum is now being marketed as "Web 3.0".  (I hope I'm not putting words in his mouth.)

2.   The release was originally supposed to be "Winter of 2014 / 2015".  During the final phase of testing over the last few months where the testnet was exposed to stress testing - there were a LOT of people with issues keeping up with the blockchain / blockchain forkings / etc.

3.   There is speculation that the Ethereum team is almost out of funding.  I believe I read somewhere that their burn rate will get them thru the end of 2015.  With current delayed timing that is probably only enough time to get Frontier working and somewhat stable.  No solid transparency of how crowdsale was spent outside of the continuing progress of the platform.

4.   There has been some controversy over the Ethereum team receiving both salaries & founder portions of Ether.  In addition to the Ether given to the Ethereum team - Ether was given to the Ethereum foundation to be sold to continue development.  Based on my research I didn't feel like it was out of line but others do.

Ethereum launch - Exchanges:

Happening (probably) this coming week.  Gatecoin Exchange is allowing buy order sides in this week.  

Poloniex has stated (by mods unofficially) that they will have Ethereum listed on launch.

Ethereum team has stated "Several exchanges will support Ethereum on launch"

Pricing

Ethercoin - which is an "I owe you" by a group of individuals who CLAIM to have purchased Ethers and that they will give them to Ethercoin holders on Ethereum launch is currently priced at 0.0118 / $3.25.  

Ethercoin is 100% unofficial, could be a scam - but also the volume on Ethercoin is extremely low compared to the REAL ethers floating around.  Price could be significantly more or less (it's just the only gauge I know of).


Why did you write all of this shit?

There are only two coins I'm currently interested in & this is one of them.  Ethereum has largely stepped OUT of the altcoin community due to the constant attacks.  Frankly - I don't blame the "toxic environment".  The "altcoin community" is so full of scams - there is 1 legit project per 100 scams.

This thread was to TRY to provide an ongoing honest look at the Ethereum project and have a place to discuss.  Negative opinions are welcome.  Positive opinions are welcome.  Pages and pages of repeated trolling OR circlejerking are not.

Anyway.  When you see a new coin pop up on coinmarketcap next week - now you know what it is :-)

[1714258926]

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[1714258926]

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[unusualfacts30]

I created a thread few months where I discussed how scams are pushing away legit project. It's hard to tell which is legit and which is scam anymore. Sometimes good projects get bashed and I believe ETHER has been a victim. I found it interesting and innovative but it's definitely being pumped right now (may be that's why people are saying it's a scam)

[r0ach]

I don't know why you think IPO coins don't deserve severe criticism when they're just cash grabs that recreate the central banker experience we already have.

Why IPO should be banned from the forum:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=443196.0

[rdnkjdi]

I don't know why you think IPO coins don't deserve severe criticism when they're just cash grabs that recreate the central banker experience we already have.

Why IPO should be banned from the forum:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=443196.0

You can't ban IPO's without censoring free speech.  Where do you stop it - do you ban donations to projects (this message board for instance?)  People holding their projects hostage until they receive X amount of funding?  Premines?

Even if you disagree with IPO's - if the funds go to developers creating open source code.  When and if their project dies (or even if it doesn't) - the new cryptocurrency features can be copied to a non IPO coin (there's nothing keeping someone from doing this with Ethereum - it has been 100% open source since day 1).

You are honestly suggesting a ban on free speech / open market (buying and selling based on promises) and a ban on how most of the funding is going into crypto (greed)?

Do we ban pre-mines too?  We have the cryptonote protocol that is perhaps the best thing to happen to anonymous fungible currency since bitcoin.  Other projects forked the code and created coins without the pre-mine - and it wouldn't have happened without a pre-mine.

I disagree with you.  Ethereum is the ONLY presale I have found not to be a scam or incredibly shady.  Thousands and thousands of lines of code, working client that supports more than any other crypto in regards to turing, employment of developers from solid industries (not fly by night anonymous usernames), reviews from reputable sources & devs who spent almost a year working on the PoC code BEFORE asking for a dime & then another year after they were funded.

I agree with you that 99 out of 100 IPO's are scams.  I disagree that censoring free markets helps cryptocurrency in any way.

[r0ach]

Because like I said in my post, the original Bitcoin mining reward is indepedent from the creator.  The IPOs are a bastardization of Bitcoin, changing it back to a central banker issuing currency for profit.  It's kind of the exact opposite ideology, to the point where it seems off-topic for the forum.

[rdnkjdi]

the original Bitcoin mining reward is independent from the creator

There is more than one way to look at this.  

The bitcoin creator owns a larger fraction of bitcoin than all of the Ethereum developers put together will.  How is that different in practical terms that affect the currency?

Ninjamines create a practical mining reward (ownership) that often goes to the creator.

Premines do the same thing.

Insider trading combined with pump and dumps (Truckcoin changed to Hypercoin with emissions and EVERYTHING changed ... dozens of these examples) also often does the same thing.

IPO's just put a public face on what's always going on under the table.  Everything is almost always a scam around here.  IPO's are just one flavor.

[rdnkjdi]

Intentionally allowing huge whales at launch means there will be pumping, dumping and probable shorting.  Another flaw, although this is debatable, is making people pay for an IPO and yet now they are including a highly inflationary PoW mechanism.

"Pumping and dumping" and "Highly inflationary PoW" both offset.  Inflationary PoW rewards miners.  Limited supply rewards big holders / pump and dumpers.  These are goals that fight against each other.

beyond the euphoria, panic buying and/or hype

The pre-sale lasted a full month with a test client already built.  If the founders intending to create panic buying - they did a poor job of it.  They DID do a good job of maximizing their bitcoin raising potential (which again - seems to offset the accusation of intentionally creating panic buying while limiting supply) at the expense of being able to create panic buying now.  

Any current demand has been created by the completion of the project and taking away the risk that existed at the time of pre-sale.  Not the limiting of supply.  If there's an accusation - it should be that they maximized their bitcoin raising potential at the expense of letting people capitalize on panic buying (the accusation you are making).  Again - the way things were done don't work towards creating a panic buying scenario.  

who actually did their homework on Ethereum?  There's enough negative material on Ethereum, and its' founders, to put together an informative blog indicating why it is the biggest scam in crypto yet.

It's a high enough profile project (outside of bitcointalk forum) with enough funds raised that I would suspect after nearly two years in the making something like this would exist already somewhere.  If you find or make something - link it here & I'll put it in the OP!  I would be highly interested in reading it.

Top 100 addresses owning 45.7% is a big liability and risk for other investors.

Fair criticism.  Looks like about the same distribution as litecoin.

[CoinBateman]

In my opinion, the way that the funds were drained, a competent team of people could have done much more. A few google tech's could put together what Ethereum wish to offer on a budget 10x less and produce 10x more.

That's not to say that Ethereum are a scam, just that it is incredibly insulting to suggest that after a year and multi-million pound donations, they are asking for more.

[zz11]

Useful piece with good summary, the OP is clearly biased in favor of Ethereum but manages to put ina fe line about the negatives so points for that.

The name is not Charles Hopkins, btw. It made me laugh

In my opinion, the way that the funds were drained, a competent team of people could have done much more. A few google tech's could put together what Ethereum wish to offer on a budget 10x less and produce 10x more.

That's not to say that Ethereum are a scam, just that it is incredibly insulting to suggest that after a year and multi-million pound donations, they are asking for more.

Yes, they are incompetent and greedy. They wanted the glory of success but wanted to get their paycheck in early in case it failed.

[ed_teech]

Any more info on this Ethercoin and its relation with Ethereum project ?

[YarkoL]

Yes, they are incompetent and greedy.

They are very good at coding stuff, but when it comes to
project administration, it is a different thing altogether... which
translates to mishandling of finances.

Still, what little I've played with Ethereum left me rather
impressed. So I'm expecting great things from it. Or to be
precise, if Ethereum team messes up, I expect great things
from someone else who takes the lead along the track opened
by Ethereum.

[unent]

I think the price will start off initially high, then rapidly crash as people dump for profit. If the devs have given themselves big shares and they are short of money then they might also dump along with the investors. After the Bitshares IPO it went to the number 2 coin in price, then crashed heavily and is number 8 today. Ethereum might follow a similar path.

[newrad]

So if Etherium becomes successful what does that mean for the internet, bitcoins, and altcoins?

And if I'm understanding this correctly, Ether will be the underlying currency of this technology?

[monsanto]

So if Etherium becomes successful what does that mean for the internet, bitcoins, and altcoins?

And if I'm understanding this correctly, Ether will be the underlying currency of this technology?

Ethereum is open source right? So maybe a flood of Ether-alts (Ethershits?)... Etherdark... Etherlite.. bitEther..

[bassclef]

I think the price will start off initially high, then rapidly crash as people dump for profit. If the devs have given themselves big shares and they are short of money then they might also dump along with the investors. After the Bitshares IPO it went to the number 2 coin in price, then crashed heavily and is number 8 today. Ethereum might follow a similar path.

Sounds like a premined mess. It will pump and dump just like every altcoin, ever, siphoning money from noobs. Count me out.

[rdnkjdi]

Sounds like a premined mess. It will pump and dump just like every altcoin, ever, siphoning money from noobs. Count me out.

 Crowdsale / IPO.  They did have a massive legal research period (which is more than most) to make sure they were legal.  (Might make blatantly fucking people over more difficult ... or not).

Also they delivered PoC before they sold - now they are just creating the genesis block (after a year of further development and testing.)

Ethereum is open source right? So maybe a flood of Ether-alts (Ethershits?)... Etherdark... Etherlite.. bitEther..

Yeah - possible.  If the network effects choose a different coin the Eth team is ok with that.  They understood from the beginning & felt open source was still the only way to go.  IBM has already forked Ethereum - a few banks & warehouse type companies have also forked their own private chain for testing.  Counterparty forked and put Ethereum on the Blockchain.

I'm pretty sure the consensus will go with the original devs as long as they are producing code to make it more scalable, faster, more stable etc (but again - that's just all assumption on my part & I am biased.  Or maybe I've seen too many bitcoindark and lightcoincounterpartydarkcoindoge's to have much faith in copies.)

[JMAHH]

This project is legit. Consider the quantity and quality of work put in (github, blog posts, conferences/meetups, transparency efforts...), along with strong external validation/support (Szabo, IBM...). Therefore I'd expect Ether to behave similarly to Storjcoin (SJCX), another serious project, rather than your average alt scam.

Frankly, using "pump and dump" and Ethereum in the same sentence is somewhat insulting IMO.  

[ApexEvo]

This project is legit. Consider the quantity and quality of work put in (github, blog posts, conferences/meetups, transparency efforts...), along with strong external validation/support (Szabo, IBM...). Therefore I'd expect Ether to behave similarly to Storjcoin (SJCX), another serious project, rather than your average alt scam.

Frankly, using "pump and dump" and Ethereum in the same sentence is somewhat insulting IMO.  

behave like storjcoin? you mean it will hardly get to top 50 , now seriously. When you checkout promotional videos for cryptos on youtube, they have like 150 views months after launch. Ethereum explanatory video has 36000...that says something. I think ETH will be in totally different league than top 10 altcoins. I think that it might be THE Bitcoin 2.0

Im looking forward to bitocin maximalists and their reaction

[tiggytomb]

This is a very useful thread, I rediscovered Ether today after putting the pre sale to one side and simply forgetting about it, kind of wish I got in at that point although... once they release their genesis block and all the initial investors can use their coins I foresee a dump happening so could still get some cheapish coins 'maybe'

[spartacusrex]

They sold ~ 60 million ether at the pre sale.

At ~$3 / ether as the current best guess (ethercoin price), that would be $180 mil market cap.

There is not going to be 180 million waiting to buy when they launch, and many many people will dump their coins when it does launch.

I'm sure the price will drop at launch, but for those that hang in there.. it could be the one that goes 1:1 with BTC. Or 1/3:1 as there are already 3 times more ether than the total BTC supply.

They are so different, that I don't see it as a threat to Bitcoin.

Vitalik wants to switch to POS, not POW, which is a good idea since POW is great for COINS, but POS is great for blockchains that provide a service.  (Once he's happy that POS can work)

MORE importantly.. It's going to be fresh / new / interesting to see just what this puppy can do (been a while since something NEW came along), and if anyone can actually understand it.. and how to use it..

Come on Ethereum devs..!  We beseech you.. don't disappoint us.. impress us.. inspire us.

..that's all that we ask of you. I know - it's a lot..