Review - Dragon's Tale MMO Casino

[Stephen Gornick]

This was a great review of Dragon's Tale MMO Casino.

Something I just learned:

I’ve just added support for credit cards, along with the necessary safeguards. You can buy Bitcoins in-game, on a credit card, instantly. Cash outs to Visa are instant as well, and for Mastercard require a wire transfer. Of course, US players must come with Bitcoins of their own,

 - http://bensonsamuel.wordpress.com/2012/09/26/dragons-tale-play-to-win-bitcoin

 - http://www.dragons.tl

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[zorgberg]

I'm curious about the legality of this in the US for the player (not the legality of the game itself).   Is this the reason why US players must 'bring their own bitcoins' while players in other countries can purchase them in-game with a credit card?   I don't see how having to buy 'chips' from one place and using them to gamble at another makes it legal for the US player to play this game.

[Draino]

i believe the law on online gambling makes moving funds to the site illegal, not the actual games

[teppy]

Correct - aside from sports betting, all the various federal laws don't actually criminalize gambling itself. Instead, they put up all sorts of rules around transmission of funds for purposes of funding a gambling account, or rules about gambling debts. And then the interesting part - they go on to define "money." And Bitcoin clearly doesn't fall within their definition, though there is a catch-all "...any other form of financial transaction, as the Secretary and the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System may jointly prescribe by regulation..."

So, to make Bitcoins illegal for gambling, the Fed would have to recognize them as a form of money. I don't see that happening in the ... well, ever.

[zorgberg]

Thanks for clearing that up.

Why then is strikesapphire blocked from US IPs ?  Do they allow gambling in currencies other than bitcoin or allow people to buy bitcoin directly from the site?

[fbastage]

What are the btc purchase rates / fees?  Can btc be transfered out of the game?

I'm not much of a gambler, but I like what you've done.  I'll give it a try.

[teppy]

Until I know/trust you, Bitcoins bought on a credit card can't be withdrawn as Bitcoins or gifted to those that are allowed to withdraw as Bitcoins for the obvious reasons. Fiat-money players can cash them back out to the same credit card they bought them on.

For "normal play" we eat all fees. So you buy at the exact MtGox spot price, which is computed as the midpoint of the current best bid&ask, and sell back at the instant spot price. If someone uses this to just "play the market" and not do any actual gambling, we charge our own estimated cost, around 12%, when they cash out. A 6x playthrough waives this fee, a 3x play-through waives half the fee, etc.

Any of the above can be waived on a case-by-case basis, and "Pure Bitcoin" players are never charged any such fees.

[fbastage]

What is the know/trust procedure, if any?  Do you just mean someone you've come to recognize personally?

Being able to cash-out back to the same card is probably good enough for me, as-is.

[teppy]

There's no set procedure. Of course "until I know you" doesn't scale, so in the future I may use something like what bitcoingateway.com used for selling Bitcoins on credit cards. Cumbersome, but AKAIK, not a single fraudulent transaction.