Bitcoin casino's that don't have cold storage proof

[win win win]

I recently had an issue with a casino I suspect to be underfunded, Is there any reason that bitcoin casino's can't prove funds with a cold storage address?

[1714121355]

1714121355

[1714121355]

1714121355

[1714121355]

1714121355

[1714121355]

1714121355

[bitbaby]

I recently had an issue with a casino I suspect to be underfunded, Is there any reason that bitcoin casino's can't prove funds with a cold storage address?

Would you mind telling what was the issue you had, did you initiated a withdrawal and it was delayed and it made you think that maybe the Casino doesn't have funds? If that's the reason then you should know that there can be other reasons for late withdrawals and as much as I am aware of all the Casinos have a Max Bet limit which correlates to how much a Casino can pay in winnings of one bet and it is there to make sure that Casino never gets in a situation where they can't pay for the winnings.

And to answer your second question I don't see any reason for a Casinos to not show proofs of their cold storage, in-fact I think it helps them gain more trust of the players and there by increasing their chances of being more successful among their competitors.

[dooglus]

I recently had an issue with a casino I suspect to be underfunded, Is there any reason that bitcoin casino's can't prove funds with a cold storage address?

The biggest reason for them not proving their funds with a cold storage address is that they don't actually have the funds they claim to have.

They'll probably offer up all kinds of excuses but don't fall for it.

[Keyboard PC]

you can check here  https://blockchain.info/tx/c5c608f3ddb78fd5e0dc1b612a577e1a94237974dcd1d1dcc4f6940f8f0e9643
every day there will be 100 ++ BTC   ( cloudbet)

[Enzyme]

There is no excuse for not having cold storage proof, these casinos are usually scams.

[win win win]

I wouldn't want to play at a casino that doesn't at least show their cold storage again.

The issue I had was I won 10% of the claimed casino's bankroll (if I knew that's all they had I wouldn't have played there) and there was a week delay in paying me without any contact, they didn't even log into bitcointalk during that time.

[Abbey_j]

Even they have a proof of cold storage, the safety of your funds is not guaranteed, so don't you keep your money in any site or exchange.

[win win win]

Even they have a proof of cold storage, the safety of your funds is not guaranteed, so don't you keep your money in any site or exchange.

That's not the point, The point is if you hit a big jackpot or run good you want to know the casino has at least the funds available to pay. Seems like anyone can open a casino with a ridiculous bankroll like 50 BTC's

[wadili89]

i seriously dont think so showing and proving motherload of funds in cold storage will prevent or help you to not get scamed if they made the site to scam they will but its better use raputaed sites you will find some here at the forum

[win win win]

i seriously dont think so showing and proving motherload of funds in cold storage will prevent or help you to not get scamed if they made the site to scam they will but its better use raputaed sites you will find some here at the forum

Well if you can't understand that, I have no words for you. But then again I don't know what a raputaed site is, so you might might know better than me
And while we are keeping it serious, I just assume you are just bumping your post count by typing anything that seems relevant, even if there is no logic at all.

[RHavar]

That's not the point, The point is if you hit a big jackpot or run good you want to know the casino has at least the funds available to pay.

Absolutely, especially for a new casino.

Seems like anyone can open a casino with a ridiculous bankroll like 50 BTC's

I don't see that as a problem. As long as they never let anyone attempt to win more than what they have, or what they are willing to pay ... it's fine. Probably 99% of bitcoin gamblers are ok playing at a casino that would stop the action when players won a total of 50.

Bustabit for instance started from a very modest bankroll, and grew from there. While there were certainly people who were put off by the low limits, it didn't stop it from being a success (or instantly paying out the winner who took half the bankroll)

[win win win]

Seems like anyone can open a casino with a ridiculous bankroll like 50 BTC's


I don't see that as a problem. As long as they never let anyone attempt to win more than what they have, or what they are willing to pay ... it's fine. Probably 99% of bitcoin gamblers are ok playing at a casino that would stop the action when players won a total of 50.

Bustabit for instance started from a very modest bankroll, and grew from there. While there were certainly people who were put off by the low limits, it didn't stop it from being a success (or instantly paying out the winner who took half the bankroll)

yeah, fair enough, The casino I had in mind had a 50 BTC bankroll with high betting limits, that could get wiped out in a few hours of lucky betting.

[Herbert2020]

I recently had an issue with a casino I suspect to be underfunded, Is there any reason that bitcoin casino's can't prove funds with a cold storage address?

i personally would not trust any sort of gambling website that refuses to give proof of their cold storage having enough bitcoin in it. even if they have an excuse of not showing it, i would never risk using their service and get scammed later on.

[sherbyspark]

Cold storage primarily applies to only sites that accept investments. Otherwise most of the casinos like Coinroyale/Fortunejack , don't really have to provide proof of funds.

[win win win]

Cold storage primarily applies to only sites that accept investments. Otherwise most of the casinos like Coinroyale/Fortunejack , don't really have to provide proof of funds.

why not?

There has been multiple issues with gambling sites with horrible financial management, Even some market leaders were run as ponzi schemes.
Every little bit of assurance the player can get should be offered, There is no reason not to.

[shitaifan2013]

Cold storage primarily applies to only sites that accept investments. Otherwise most of the casinos like Coinroyale/Fortunejack , don't really have to provide proof of funds.

why not?

There has been multiple issues with gambling sites with horrible financial management, Even some market leaders were run as ponzi schemes.
Every little bit of assurance the player can get should be offered, There is no reason not to.

imo it would be nice if sites that don't accept investments and thus don't have a public cold wallet, would at least publish a signed adress that proves they're able to payout the claimed max win on their site. wouldn't cost them much to do.

[DiscoverCebu]

Cold storage primarily applies to only sites that accept investments. Otherwise most of the casinos like Coinroyale/Fortunejack , don't really have to provide proof of funds.

why not?

There has been multiple issues with gambling sites with horrible financial management, Even some market leaders were run as ponzi schemes.
Every little bit of assurance the player can get should be offered, There is no reason not to.

imo it would be nice if sites that don't accept investments and thus don't have a public cold wallet, would at least publish a signed adress that proves they're able to payout the claimed max win on their site. wouldn't cost them much to do.

Or limiting the max payout to something they can afford like 1% of their bankroll, which most of the sites do. BTW the biggest dice site PD doesn't have a cold storage address as well, but it can afford to pay the players out.

[erpbridge]

Cold storage primarily applies to only sites that accept investments. Otherwise most of the casinos like Coinroyale/Fortunejack , don't really have to provide proof of funds.

why not?

There has been multiple issues with gambling sites with horrible financial management, Even some market leaders were run as ponzi schemes.
Every little bit of assurance the player can get should be offered, There is no reason not to.

It might be that those casinos might be accepting a higher bet and giving higher payout. So by not showing the funds they might default on payouts of people who might win a big amount.

For example if someone wins around 5000 BTC , then the casino could just default on his/her payment and refuse it and shutdown if they dont have the money to pay them out.

[sherbyspark]

Cold storage primarily applies to only sites that accept investments. Otherwise most of the casinos like Coinroyale/Fortunejack , don't really have to provide proof of funds.

why not?

There has been multiple issues with gambling sites with horrible financial management, Even some market leaders were run as ponzi schemes.
Every little bit of assurance the player can get should be offered, There is no reason not to.

It might be that those casinos might be accepting a higher bet and giving higher payout. So by not showing the funds they might default on payouts of people who might win a big amount.

For example if someone wins around 5000 BTC , then the casino could just default on his/her payment and refuse it and shutdown if they dont have the money to pay them out.

In that case you really can't do anything. If you plan on playing with a big amount then why would you in the first place go play online at an unlicensed casino , instead of flying out for a few hundred dollars to a live casino which is going to be a much better experience than playing online.

As for financial management, sites which don't accept investments might not have their holdings in bitcoin and might actually be converting fiat to bitcoin at the instant a high roller winner requests a cash out as holding onto bitcoin is not a good way for a casino to manage their house bankroll which might have been converted to bitcoin from fiat in the first place.

[win win win]

Cold storage primarily applies to only sites that accept investments. Otherwise most of the casinos like Coinroyale/Fortunejack , don't really have to provide proof of funds.

why not?

There has been multiple issues with gambling sites with horrible financial management, Even some market leaders were run as ponzi schemes.
Every little bit of assurance the player can get should be offered, There is no reason not to.

It might be that those casinos might be accepting a higher bet and giving higher payout. So by not showing the funds they might default on payouts of people who might win a big amount.

For example if someone wins around 5000 BTC , then the casino could just default on his/her payment and refuse it and shutdown if they dont have the money to pay them out.

In that case you really can't do anything. If you plan on playing with a big amount then why would you in the first place go play online at an unlicensed casino , instead of flying out for a few hundred dollars to a live casino which is going to be a much better experience than playing online.

As for financial management, sites which don't accept investments might not have their holdings in bitcoin and might actually be converting fiat to bitcoin at the instant a high roller winner requests a cash out as holding onto bitcoin is not a good way for a casino to manage their house bankroll which might have been converted to bitcoin from fiat in the first place.

Do you really think that's a fair argument? it makes me wonder why you argue at all, where does you illogical bias come from?... Until I see you signature. Casino shill, this forum is so corrupted it's no wonder the casino's have got away with whatever they wanted until now.

[lottoitaliano]

For me, cold storage to casino, not is guarantee of payment, because have money but can not pay later a big win. Every day i win to dice o casino, i withdraw

[fox19891989]

For me, cold storage to casino, not is guarantee of payment, because have money but can not pay later a big win. Every day i win to dice o casino, i withdraw

+1, we don't need a cold storage proof, we just need solid withdrawal proof, a cold storage proof can't prove payment, the best example is that satoshidice has a cold storage proof, but it doesn't pay to some players now.

Many good and reliable casinos don't show them but they pay instantly, no cold storage proof means nothing.

[Dennis7777]

For me, cold storage to casino, not is guarantee of payment, because have money but can not pay later a big win. Every day i win to dice o casino, i withdraw

+1, we don't need a cold storage proof, we just need solid withdrawal proof, a cold storage proof can't prove payment, the best example is that satoshidice has a cold storage proof, but it doesn't pay to some players now.

Many good and reliable casinos don't show them but they pay instantly, no cold storage proof means nothing.

It is true that a cold wallet proof doesn't guarantee your withdrawal will be processed, but so as the withdrawal proof.
The sites paying out instantly today, could stop paying tomorrow, and we have all seen several examples of that.

[PocketRocketsCasino]

For me, cold storage to casino, not is guarantee of payment, because have money but can not pay later a big win. Every day i win to dice o casino, i withdraw

+1, we don't need a cold storage proof, we just need solid withdrawal proof, a cold storage proof can't prove payment, the best example is that satoshidice has a cold storage proof, but it doesn't pay to some players now.

Many good and reliable casinos don't show them but they pay instantly, no cold storage proof means nothing.

Proof of funds in cold storage shows that the casino actually has the funds to pay the bets they offer you to place. If they decide not to pay that's a different problem.

If I was looking for a place to play I would rather pick a site like PRC, BD, JD etc that shows proof of funds so I know they have the money to pay if I win and not a site like DaDice that doesn't show proof of funds. You cannot guarantee a site like that has the funds to pay you if you do win regardless of withdrawal history.

[win win win]

Casino shills please go away, I know this is your favorite hang out, But real customers will see through your garbage.

to further the argument(not that its needed) please google Full tilt poker(now owned out by pokerstars) ponzi, They had instant withdrawals also.

There is no argument for this simple request not to be standard, If it makes some site wiser to the risk of having such large betting limits, then that's a step forward in this unregulated market.
The non shill comments in this thread all agree.

[win win win]

For me, cold storage to casino, not is guarantee of payment, because have money but can not pay later a big win. Every day i win to dice o casino, i withdraw

+1, we don't need a cold storage proof, we just need solid withdrawal proof, a cold storage proof can't prove payment, the best example is that satoshidice has a cold storage proof, but it doesn't pay to some players now.

Many good and reliable casinos don't show them but they pay instantly, no cold storage proof means nothing.

Proof of funds in cold storage shows that the casino actually has the funds to pay the bets they offer you to place. If they decide not to pay that's a different problem.

If I was looking for a place to play I would rather pick a site like PRC, BD, JD etc that shows proof of funds so I know they have the money to pay if I win and not a site like DaDice that doesn't show proof of funds. You cannot guarantee a site like that has the funds to pay you if you do win regardless of withdrawal history.

Thank you for your contribution, That is all we want, The proof you at least can pay, If we happen to get lucky (or a few customers get lucky in succession)

[FanEagle]

Well,from all the big wins I did,they always paid at least the casino I usually play

[vendetahome]

Well,from all the big wins I did,they always paid at least the casino I usually play

it depends on what you call big payments, 1 bitcoin can be big for you and small for me or vice versa also paying some big wins doesnt mean they will be legit in the future

[FanEagle]

I meant, this year I withdraw from a certain casino 7 btc,and its a quite decent amount if you think about it

[win win win]

I meant, this year I withdraw from a certain casino 7 btc,and its a quite decent amount if you think about it

your post aren't relevant, you should be able to see why, if you think about it.

I also got paid out more than you, This time, this time they decided to pay, the amount of my win was low enough for them to be more profitable keeping a average reputation for their casino, it's just business. We need to see that casino can handle our higher play without financial stress if we win big.

[adaseb]

Most if not all casinos or dice sites use cold storage. However the problem is that most NEVER show proof because they don't have too. The only ones that do are the ones where you can be the bank.

[dooglus]

Do you really think that's a fair argument? it makes me wonder why you argue at all, where does you illogical bias come from?... Until I see you signature. Casino shill, this forum is so corrupted it's no wonder the casino's have got away with whatever they wanted until now.

It would help if we had an idea who you were replying to. Click the 'quote' button to quote the message you are answering. We all have casinos in our signatures, so that little hint doesn't help much...

[win win win]

Most if not all casinos or dice sites use cold storage. However the problem is that most NEVER show proof because they don't have too. The only ones that do are the ones where you can be the bank.

Yes, This should change. Gamblers should demand from the casino's they play at, instead just taking what they are given.

[dooglus]

In that case you really can't do anything. If you plan on playing with a big amount then why would you in the first place go play online at an unlicensed casino , instead of flying out for a few hundred dollars to a live casino which is going to be a much better experience than playing online.

I would rather not get on a plane every time I want to make a large bet! It's a 3 hour drive to the nearest airport for me, then there's all the hassle of checking in, waiting in line, sitting on a plane for hours. I'd also have to convert my money into some kind of fiat before the casino would let me buy chips, then convert it back again if I won. I think I prefer to keep playing online.

As for financial management, sites which don't accept investments might not have their holdings in bitcoin and might actually be converting fiat to bitcoin at the instant a high roller winner requests a cash out as holding onto bitcoin is not a good way for a casino to manage their house bankroll which might have been converted to bitcoin from fiat in the first place.

If your maximum payout is a certain amount of BTC then it is dangerous to keep your bankroll in fiat. The price of Bitcoin can change very quickly and could leave you unable to afford the maximum payout any more.

Suppose I'm offering a maximum payout of 100 BTC, and figure that since my games have a 10% house edge I'm able to support such a payout with a 1000 BTC bankroll. But then I decide to keep the money in USD. So I have $300k put aside as the site's bankroll. Then over the next few weeks the price of Bitcoin shoots up to $1000 each. My $300k is now only worth 300 BTC and the maximum payout now represents 30% of my bankroll. That's horrible bankroll management.

I guess I could regularly adjust the maximum payout such that it's always worth the same number of dollars, so that it always represents the same percentage of my dollar-denominated bankroll. And maybe that's what some of these places are doing: using Bitcoin more like it was Neteller - just a way of moving dollars around, rather than as a currency in its own right.

[rodrigobitcoin]

Sorry for the noob questions 

In the real casino with real money (like las vegas) have any proof of "cold storage" ? If a bet 1 milion $ to one roulette number, casino have all money in his strongbox ? 

[win win win]

Do you really think that's a fair argument? it makes me wonder why you argue at all, where does you illogical bias come from?... Until I see you signature. Casino shill, this forum is so corrupted it's no wonder the casino's have got away with whatever they wanted until now.

It would help if we had an idea who you were replying to. Click the 'quote' button to quote the message you are answering. We all have casinos in our signatures, so that little hint doesn't help much...

Done. My comments were not directed to you in anyway, Your bias isn't favoring a illogical support for your casino, Which also has a cold storage proof I see (y) Unlike so many in this forum.

[marioantonini]

In the past i have invest more time in casino, but later more casino closed with money, for me the only option for sure 100% is cold storage but with escrow. Any casino use this? Escrow have a key for the cold storage

[erpbridge]

Sorry for the noob questions  

In the real casino with real money (like las vegas) have any proof of "cold storage" ? If a bet 1 milion $ to one roulette number, casino have all money in his strongbox ?  

Yep They will definitely have that kind of cash in hand. They might also not be paying you out with cash but something like a check .

Haven't you seen the movies where they have a room fullof cash ? And most of the casinos are purely in this line of business so they wouldn't allow you to bet unless they themselves have that kind of cash with them .

[vennali]

In the past i have invest more time in casino, but later more casino closed with money, for me the only option for sure 100% is cold storage but with escrow. Any casino use this? Escrow have a key for the cold storage

I believe I have seen several casinos talk about a multikey/sign escrow in the past but doesn't look like any of them actually implemented it. Not aware of all the complications that can result from it, but they will likely not be able to cashout a large investor immediately if they request one. And again it is impossible to know if the site investor is requesting that cashout or the site owner is. If the site owner wishes to cheat he can just play against the house and withraw those funds .

[asuspc]

For me, cold storage to casino, not is guarantee of payment, because have money but can not pay later a big win. Every day i win to dice o casino, i withdraw

+1, we don't need a cold storage proof, we just need solid withdrawal proof, a cold storage proof can't prove payment, the best example is that satoshidice has a cold storage proof, but it doesn't pay to some players now.

Many good and reliable casinos don't show them but they pay instantly, no cold storage proof means nothing.

Proof of funds in cold storage shows that the casino actually has the funds to pay the bets they offer you to place. If they decide not to pay that's a different problem.

If I was looking for a place to play I would rather pick a site like PRC, BD, JD etc that shows proof of funds so I know they have the money to pay if I win and not a site like DaDice that doesn't show proof of funds. You cannot guarantee a site like that has the funds to pay you if you do win regardless of withdrawal history.

If anything can go wrong, it will! I am one of those who don't make a big deal out of this, after all cold storage doesn't guarantee my payout in anyway or like you said "that's a different problem."

[win win win]

In that case you really can't do anything. If you plan on playing with a big amount then why would you in the first place go play online at an unlicensed casino , instead of flying out for a few hundred dollars to a live casino which is going to be a much better experience than playing online.

I would rather not get on a plane every time I want to make a large bet! It's a 3 hour drive to the nearest airport for me, then there's all the hassle of checking in, waiting in line, sitting on a plane for hours. I'd also have to convert my money into some kind of fiat before the casino would let me buy chips, then convert it back again if I won. I think I prefer to keep playing online.

As for financial management, sites which don't accept investments might not have their holdings in bitcoin and might actually be converting fiat to bitcoin at the instant a high roller winner requests a cash out as holding onto bitcoin is not a good way for a casino to manage their house bankroll which might have been converted to bitcoin from fiat in the first place.

If your maximum payout is a certain amount of BTC then it is dangerous to keep your bankroll in fiat. The price of Bitcoin can change very quickly and could leave you unable to afford the maximum payout any more.

Suppose I'm offering a maximum payout of 100 BTC, and figure that since my games have a 10% house edge I'm able to support such a payout with a 1000 BTC bankroll. But then I decide to keep the money in USD. So I have $300k put aside as the site's bankroll. Then over the next few weeks the price of Bitcoin shoots up to $1000 each. My $300k is now only worth 300 BTC and the maximum payout now represents 30% of my bankroll. That's horrible bankroll management.

I guess I could regularly adjust the maximum payout such that it's always worth the same number of dollars, so that it always represents the same percentage of my dollar-denominated bankroll. And maybe that's what some of these places are doing: using Bitcoin more like it was Neteller - just a way of moving dollars around, rather than as a currency in its own right.

Great post, These are all great points.

There really is no reason not for casino's not to show us the cold storage proof, Its a added assurance that should be without issue for legitimate casino's.

I know only the casino's adopting it will get my business from now on.

[sherbyspark]

In that case you really can't do anything. If you plan on playing with a big amount then why would you in the first place go play online at an unlicensed casino , instead of flying out for a few hundred dollars to a live casino which is going to be a much better experience than playing online.

I would rather not get on a plane every time I want to make a large bet! It's a 3 hour drive to the nearest airport for me, then there's all the hassle of checking in, waiting in line, sitting on a plane for hours. I'd also have to convert my money into some kind of fiat before the casino would let me buy chips, then convert it back again if I won. I think I prefer to keep playing online.

Probably its a thing about personal preference then. I feel better when I gamble at a place like Vegas than in my house. And its actually common that high rollers tend to gamble only for shorter periods of time or only for a matter of days most of the time.

As for financial management, sites which don't accept investments might not have their holdings in bitcoin and might actually be converting fiat to bitcoin at the instant a high roller winner requests a cash out as holding onto bitcoin is not a good way for a casino to manage their house bankroll which might have been converted to bitcoin from fiat in the first place.

If your maximum payout is a certain amount of BTC then it is dangerous to keep your bankroll in fiat. The price of Bitcoin can change very quickly and could leave you unable to afford the maximum payout any more.

Suppose I'm offering a maximum payout of 100 BTC, and figure that since my games have a 10% house edge I'm able to support such a payout with a 1000 BTC bankroll. But then I decide to keep the money in USD. So I have $300k put aside as the site's bankroll. Then over the next few weeks the price of Bitcoin shoots up to $1000 each. My $300k is now only worth 300 BTC and the maximum payout now represents 30% of my bankroll. That's horrible bankroll management.

I guess I could regularly adjust the maximum payout such that it's always worth the same number of dollars, so that it always represents the same percentage of my dollar-denominated bankroll. And maybe that's what some of these places are doing: using Bitcoin more like it was Neteller - just a way of moving dollars around, rather than as a currency in its own right.

Wouldn't it be true and also more dangerous the other way round ? IF a casino had converted 5000 BTC(assuming its a big one) to fiat an year back then it would consider its initial investment to be that value ie 5000*600. And after an year(today) there money would have become half only because of that volatility, so they are actually gambling on the price along with gambling against the gamblers over that one year.
Considering the case of a high roller coming today , the casino would consider his buy in at todays price and will also likely be cashing out at a much similar price instead of waiting for an year and POSSIBLY losing the amount only by holding. They can also gain by holding but its an extra gamble the casinos will be taking.

[StinkyS4L]

Converting all of your coin to fiat is not a sound thing to do. Of course you must convert some of it to pay expenses, but you should always have a large reserve in case it's needed.

[sherbyspark]

Converting all of your coin to fiat is not a sound thing to do. Of course you must convert some of it to pay expenses, but you should always have a large reserve in case it's needed.

If you read again , I didn't say convert your coins to fiat, but I said a site owner could have his bankroll in fiat and could be converting his fiat to bitcoin at the time of a gambler cashing out .