Taxing is legalized robbery

[josephno1]

Without taxes, how does the government pay for things such as roads, free healthcare(in some countries) and things such as education

[1713305733]

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[Meuh6879]

gov. don't pay the road ... they print money to do this.
in real world, the people from a town participate to build the road when it's needed.

building a road is very easly ... when you have time and no money.

[Enjorlas]

I always hate these threads. It always boils down to the anarchists making well thought out arguments and solutions and then the statists saying, "YEAH BUT WUT ABOUT THE ROADZ!!1"

Lets at least make it fun this go around.

[Marbit]

Politicians using taxes to take wealth from poor to rich, only bitcoin can change that. What do you think?

Taxes are needed for the development of a country or a place or a locality. Bitcoin might well have low transaction fee etc, but not paying taxes is something that will take a toll on the government, and wanting to use the coin as a way of evading taxes may well reduce it's acceptance by governments over the world. Make sense?

[Miracal]

I hate taxes But I like schools, roads, police officers, hospitals, paramedics, soldiers, clean water, the post office, public parks, universities, museums, science, tunnels, bridges, etc.  So I pay them anyway.

That's a very nice answer. There are people always complaining where there money goes and if that authority to information is given to them, they would force their way into redirecting their funds to a different task like building a highway rather than providing financial aid to the poor or for food for the military. We get back a lot from the taxes we provide, gratitude must be paid.

[HarHarHar9965]

I hate taxes But I like schools, roads, police officers, hospitals, paramedics, soldiers, clean water, the post office, public parks, universities, museums, science, tunnels, bridges, etc.  So I pay them anyway.

That's a very nice answer. There are people always complaining where there money goes and if that authority to information is given to them, they would force their way into redirecting their funds to a different task like building a highway rather than providing financial aid to the poor or for food for the military. We get back a lot from the taxes we provide, gratitude must be paid.

Its not really about gratitude. People feel cheated sometimes because so much money is accounted as taxes, and so many people have to pay it. Considering their is shit load of money with the government and watching the govt do nothing with it and then state that it has been used already and pretend work has started has annoyed and pissed off people. Its an issue on a macro level.

[Erdogan]

Without taxes, how does the government pay for things such as roads, free healthcare(in some countries) and things such as education

They don't, and that is what we want.

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

Without taxes, how does the government pay for things such as roads, free healthcare(in some countries) and things such as education

They don't, and that is what we want.

Not really, a poor person depends on those being paid.
You can't think correctly and make decent decision making if your basic need are not meet.
Therefore, only the rich should pay taxes so the poor can save money and actually try to generate wealth and improve their lives. The poor will not magically stop being poor if no one pays taxes, some help is always needed for most. Low-middle class should be tax free, the super rich should pay the taxes because your life is going to be as good with 50 or 100 millions. Someone's life is going to go from bearable to absolute shit if you go from 1200 to 600 euro, so to speak.

[Amph]

Without taxes, how does the government pay for things such as roads, free healthcare(in some countries) and things such as education

They don't, and that is what we want.

can they simply pay less everyone and get rid of this tax bullshit? it would solve many things and money, because you do not need a taxman anymore

it would work precisely with employer and not employees

[knowhow]

I'm not against the fees that the Government applies, but with their misuse. The deviation made by politicians makes me wish there were no more, I see every day people in extreme poverty while the miserable of politico's just new car every month, for me doesn't make sense to pay to play corrupcçao, school with but conditions and health without sufficient professionals to the population.

[HarHarHar9965]

Without taxes, how does the government pay for things such as roads, free healthcare(in some countries) and things such as education

They don't, and that is what we want.

I was always under an impression that they outsource the work to local traders in turn of government projects and reward them money. I did not know that the government did not build roads and free health care hospitals and museums, etc. It peaks my interest on where the money for such comes from? Who provides these contractors finance for completing govt projects if not the govt?

[Erdogan]

Without taxes, how does the government pay for things such as roads, free healthcare(in some countries) and things such as education

They don't, and that is what we want.

I was always under an impression that they outsource the work to local traders in turn of government projects and reward them money. I did not know that the government did not build roads and free health care hospitals and museums, etc. It peaks my interest on where the money for such comes from? Who provides these contractors finance for completing govt projects if not the govt?

The market. Private roads, schools, hospitals.

[Enjorlas]

Without taxes, how does the government pay for things such as roads, free healthcare(in some countries) and things such as education

They don't, and that is what we want.

I was always under an impression that they outsource the work to local traders in turn of government projects and reward them money. I did not know that the government did not build roads and free health care hospitals and museums, etc. It peaks my interest on where the money for such comes from? Who provides these contractors finance for completing govt projects if not the govt?

The market. Private roads, schools, hospitals.

Also Fire departments, courts, dispute resolution companies, currency, etc will all exist far more efficiently in the absence of a government.

It is a myth that anarchy=chaos.

In reality, what we have in the world right now=chaos.

People should stop thinking of anarchy as the absence of government (it is not). And start thinking of anarchy as a 'subscription based government'. It will make more sense that way. And before you hit me up with your big bag of hypotheticals that you are thinking up, the answers have already been answered in detail by other anarchists.

[teukon]

The aspect of taxation I've always found most curious is the perception of fairness.  I've spoken to several people before that admit to being "happy with taxation" in general (even if unhappy with certain implementation details) and, while they concede the immorality of the theft involved, defend the institution as a whole on utilitarian grounds ("necessary evil", "for the greater good", "the ends justify the means").  However, when discussing isolated incidents of tax avoidance/evasion, utilitarian concerns take a back seat to ethical ones.  Suddenly it's not about the existence of public services but about people not paying "their fair share".

[MF Doom]

Yeah, I hate it when thieves break into my house, steal my money; then use it to build roads, pay firefighters, and educate my kids. Fricken thieves.

Obviously there are a lot of municipal expenses that have to come from taxes.  I think what the OP was getting at is the extreme level of overspending above and beyond those necessary costs.

See example:

http://www.rt.com/usa/obama-africa-trip-cost-176/

That was from a previous africa trip, then this most recent one cost an estimated $6 mil in flights ALONE.

That is my definition of theft, when the gvt says they cant open NATIONAL PARKS and halt white house tours, but $100 mil for a trip is ok.  And this is really just the tip of the iceberg, not even getting into the CIA's "black budgets"...

[Erdogan]

Yeah, I hate it when thieves break into my house, steal my money; then use it to build roads, pay firefighters, and educate my kids. Fricken thieves.

Obviously there are a lot of municipal expenses that have to come from taxes.  I think what the OP was getting at is the extreme level of overspending above and beyond those necessary costs.

See example:

http://www.rt.com/usa/obama-africa-trip-cost-176/

That was from a previous africa trip, then this most recent one cost an estimated $6 mil in flights ALONE.

That is my definition of theft, when the gvt says they cant open NATIONAL PARKS and halt white house tours, but $100 mil for a trip is ok.  And this is really just the tip of the iceberg, not even getting into the CIA's "black budgets"...

It is not obvious if you look into it.

Pointing out bad apples is good, but the fundamentals are still there.

The individuals have to sacrifice their freedom to the collective, their money, they have to offer guilt and shame, collectivist action is violent, standard minded. The collective sacrifices individuals for the common good.

A standard meme is that you get more back than you put in. That is impossible if you think of it, and understand how value is created by consenting individuals in trade. Collective action destructs value, it is a negative sum game.

To keep the illusion alive, the collectivists have to lie and restrict free exchange of information. The products or services the collective produces have unknown value. That is why a collectivist school system, for instance, have to use standard tests and comparisons to schools in other countries. Also to keep the illusion alive, only sunshine stories of elderly in perfect homes can be distributed. A bad example is only corrected if the story can be brought to the public attention by supporters. Only if the story threatens the illusion of the benign collective. The individual concerning the case is made whole, but all others left unresolved.

I fact, you pay the full price for the services, and more, the services ar bad or misaligned with needs. You pay through taxes, money stock inflation and ever increasing state loans. You don't only pay the taxes, you pay also for the inflation and the loans. For example, you or someone like you might save through a pension fund, and that money is lent to the government. You don't think a loan is a big deal, but it is, the day it becomes clear to everybody that the loan can not be paid back, the bond loses all value, thus you have paid.

[Erdogan]

I want to stay put, the government should move. They are the criminals.

[teukon]

We can protest to governments if they really dont using it for infrastructures in our country, but if they really do, then why should we angry. We always using those infrastructures everyday.

Consider a river through a town.  Is it good for the government to build a bridge over that river?  If so, is it good to build a second bridge a few kilometers further down?  How about building hundreds of bridges over the same river, evenly spaced over 10km?

Is there some density of bridges, some tax burden past which you would be unhappy with government infrastructure projects?

What if, instead of spending $3000 in a year to have your child educated well, $6000 is taxed from you and used to educated your child poorly?  Would this not anger you?

But if you really want to avoid any high taxes, you may read this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates   You could move to lower taxes country and you can feel what the difference between high taxes country with low one.

Correlation does not imply causation.

[techgeek]

taxing is pretty crazy if you think about it.

but whats worse then taxing is annual increase of inflation increase lets say 2%, that means you pay 2% more then previous year.. let that water you paid for is now $2.50 back when you paid $1 for.

[lissandra]

last time I checked the tax money goes back into the banks pockets. so yeah it is robbery regardless how someone says its not.

I mean yeah we pay our taxes to IRS which then sends to the treasurey, but the treasury forwards that money also back to the fed reserve.

And when the banks need more money, they just ask for the fed help..