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Author Topic: Haw many PPCoins will there be?  (Read 11298 times)
Jutarul
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September 30, 2012, 02:59:44 PM
 #61

Are you one of the developers of PPC? you seem to be an expert.....
Na Smiley Just an educated user. For now anyway.

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September 30, 2012, 09:47:52 PM
 #62

I don't understand how this is better than BTC. It seems highly inflationary and unpredictable. If I wanted that I would just use fiat.

The mint design is not better than BTC, it's comparable. This is from FAQ:

Quote
Is there a cap on total money supply like Bitcoin's 21 million?

There is no hard cap other than a 2 billion coin max put into the code for now. But that should not be interpreted as an approachable cap, as it might never get anywhere close to that. It should not be considered a hard cap either as it may get lifted but that's likely not needed in a very very long time. Due to the nature of the mint rate design it's not possible to predict a final limit as it depends heavily on market participation, as well as the influences between proof-of-stake minting and fee destruction (there may not even be a mathematical limit if minting continues to outpace fee destruction). What we do know is that the proof-of-work minting would slow down exponentially according to Moore's Law (we are aware that Moore's Law eventually would stop to apply), and proof-of-stake minting introduces at most 1% annual inflation. So generally speaking it is still a very low future-inflation design comparable to Bitcoin.

In 0.2 release a 'moneysupply' stat is included in the getinfo output so everyone can see how many coins are in the market.

I designed this part so that it feels more beautiful/natural to my taste and doesn't involve fix time schedule and fixed cap, although downside is that some people will not feel confident with it's future inflation behavior. That's expected. I commented about Satoshi's mint rate design before and I think it is wise to have a fixed cap for a first cryptocurrency. For ppcoin I am experimenting and would  like to see how market responds to a comparable design without fixed cap.

Initially ppcoin inflation rate may drop faster than Bitcoin early stage due to dropping of mint per block. Another factor is that proof-of-work blocks are reduced (roughly from 10 minutes spacing to 30 minutes) while proof-of-stake blocks become frequent.

Above is my informed opinion but it's up to yourself to decide whether you are happy with its inflation prospects.

Central bankers also say that 1-2% inflation per year is a good thing when it is really a tax on the current holders of their currency.


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September 30, 2012, 11:29:59 PM
 #63

Central bankers also say that 1-2% inflation per year is a good thing when it is really a tax on the current holders of their currency.
Well tax is not inherently bad. The question is for what purpose a tax is established. In fiat currencies, the inflation serves the issuer in the sense that they can overcompensate for the destruction of money.

The main point about a cryptocurrency is that the central issuer is removed. And thus people have a guarantee that no single entity can inflate their money and thus 'raise the tax'.

For ppcoin I am experimenting and would  like to see how market responds to a comparable design without fixed cap.
Sunny states that this also serves as an experiment with market acceptance.

As a matter of fact I would be surprised to see that the 1% from POS can compensate for money destruction. It's rather the new money which fuels inflation - and that goes down with time as the overall money supply increases and the difficulty rises (and thus the POW reward), similarly to the bitcoin money supply schedule.

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October 01, 2012, 02:10:25 AM
 #64

Seems like too many coins.  Easier to buy now than to mine IMO
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October 01, 2012, 02:16:38 AM
 #65

Seems like too many coins.  Easier to buy now than to mine IMO
I agree. POW mining efficiency takes a huge hit due to POS blocks. Would be nice to have a mining efficiency calculator for ppcoin, I don't know of any.

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October 01, 2012, 04:13:39 AM
 #66

Central bankers also say that 1-2% inflation per year is a good thing when it is really a tax on the current holders of their currency.
Well tax is not inherently bad. The question is for what purpose a tax is established. In fiat currencies, the inflation serves the issuer in the sense that they can overcompensate for the destruction of money.

The main point about a cryptocurrency is that the central issuer is removed. And thus people have a guarantee that no single entity can inflate their money and thus 'raise the tax'.

For ppcoin I am experimenting and would  like to see how market responds to a comparable design without fixed cap.
Sunny states that this also serves as an experiment with market acceptance.

As a matter of fact I would be surprised to see that the 1% from POS can compensate for money destruction. It's rather the new money which fuels inflation - and that goes down with time as the overall money supply increases and the difficulty rises (and thus the POW reward), similarly to the bitcoin money supply schedule.

The issuer could also be known as the designer. If the creator holds a huge sum then in essence any inflation due to POS is his issuance and he gets the coins first to spend into the overall total.

I don't see the point in "taxing" current holders/miners by inflating the supply via POS.

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October 01, 2012, 04:24:29 AM
 #67

The issuer could also be known as the designer. If the creator holds a huge sum then in essence any inflation due to POS is his issuance and he gets the coins first to spend into the overall total.
Any holding of a huge amount of coin is finite. The new money generated through POS is capped at 1% per year. This is very different from a license to print money. Also if the holder decides to liquidate in order to inflate the money, he is out of the game. It may take a while, but the market will recover.

I don't see the point in "taxing" current holders/miners by inflating the supply via POS.
Even though POS is very cheap, it's not free. The nodes still have to cover bandwidth costs, have computational resources and do transaction validation. Thus you HAVE to provide an incentive. And transaction fees are not an incentive, because they get destroyed in the process.

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October 01, 2012, 07:18:57 PM
Last edit: October 01, 2012, 07:29:27 PM by Jutarul
 #68

Andy Rossy indicated that the mint and money supply graph earlier was off with respect to time scale. I now correctly analyzed the block times:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113919.msg1232228#msg1232228

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
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October 01, 2012, 08:07:56 PM
 #69

Andy Rossy indicated that the mint and money supply graph earlier was off with respect to time scale. I now correctly analyzed the block times:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113919.msg1232228#msg1232228

proofofstake.com
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October 01, 2012, 09:42:43 PM
 #70

Andy Rossy indicated that the mint and money supply graph earlier was off with respect to time scale. I now correctly analyzed the block times:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113919.msg1232228#msg1232228

proofofstake.com
nice! is it possible to split the mint daily into proof-of-stake and proof-of-work?

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October 01, 2012, 09:59:12 PM
 #71

Andy Rossy indicated that the mint and money supply graph earlier was off with respect to time scale. I now correctly analyzed the block times:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113919.msg1232228#msg1232228

proofofstake.com
nice! is it possible to split the mint daily into proof-of-stake and proof-of-work?

Yes, currently it's just PoW, will add another for PoS overlay at some point. Smiley
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October 01, 2012, 10:12:41 PM
 #72

Yes, currently it's just PoW, will add another for PoS overlay at some point. Smiley
I think it currently shows the average between POW and POS...

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October 01, 2012, 10:31:22 PM
 #73

Yes, currently it's just PoW, will add another for PoS overlay at some point. Smiley
I think it currently shows the average between POW and POS...

Aha, apologies, you're nearly right, it's the sum of PoW/PoS in the mint
And, in the difficulty, it's just PoW

Table has generation_time, mint, id.

Mint SQL:

Code:
my $sth = $dbh->prepare("select extract('epoch' from date_trunc('day', generation_time)) || '000' as date,sum(mint) as mint from block_history group by date_trunc('day', generation_time) order by date_trunc('day', generation_time)");
Difficulty SQL (hacky)

Code:
my $sth = $dbh->prepare("SELECT extract('epoch' from generation_time) || '000' as date, difficulty from block_history where id < 5000 or difficulty > 500 order by id ASC");

I'll look into it at the end of the week, I think 2 lines on the mint graph, separating PoW and PoS will be very nice too Smiley.


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October 02, 2012, 08:39:18 AM
 #74

Any exchange for ppc?

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October 02, 2012, 09:10:18 AM
 #75

Any exchange for ppc?


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January 07, 2013, 12:12:01 AM
 #76

Exchange for PPC:

https://ppcexchange.bitparking.com
https://vircurex.com/
http://exchange.zapto.org/
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January 07, 2013, 12:16:50 AM
 #77

ppc is in testing phase of being added to btc-e
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January 07, 2013, 12:43:52 AM
 #78

BTC-e says that they will wait the PPC protocol update. It shoud be released in about 2 weeks.
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January 07, 2013, 01:04:18 AM
 #79

BTC-e says that they will wait the PPC protocol update. It shoud be released in about 2 weeks.

PPC to be added to BTC-E amazing looking forward to this

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January 07, 2013, 01:11:45 AM
 #80

BTC-e says that they will wait the PPC protocol update. It shoud be released in about 2 weeks.

Link?

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