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Question: Agree to the A) proposed Constitution and B) proposed action?
Yes to both - 10 (50%)
Yes to A and no to B - 0 (0%)
Yes to B and no to A - 1 (5%)
No to both but agree with individual sovereignty - 3 (15%)
No to both & disagree conceptually - 6 (30%)
Total Voters: 20

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [All]
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Author Topic: Who wants to start an anarchist micronation?  (Read 6898 times)
TPTB_need_war
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August 01, 2015, 11:44:52 PM
 #1

I am trying to find out if there are any other people in this world who think like I do, i.e. have the same political philosophy as I do. Someone who has more time and more skilled in legalese could reformulate this for as long as the themes are the same.

The Philippines taught me how to live like this. I learned a lot from the filipinos about how to live in freedom[2]!

I expect most people do not want freedom. Thus they will not vote "Yes to both". People think they want freedom, but they really don't.

Proposed Anarchy Constitution

Citizenship in the sovereign State of ________ (hereafter referred to as the State) is granted only to the initial owners of the territory purchased to form the State, to any offspring of citizens who declare their unequivocal allegiance to this Constitution, and to any person who so declares their allegiance coincident with written approval from at least two-thirds of the living adult citizens who existed at the time the two-thirds threshold was attained. Citizenship is perpetual except where voluntarily renounced. Renunciation occurs by written statement with three citizen witness signatories or implicitly immediately upon voting for any treaty, law, or amendment that violates this constitution. Non-citizens are not allowed to own private property within the State's territory. Any citizen who has renunciated explicitly or implicitly must dispose of his applicable private property within 1 year, else it will be sold at auction by any citizen of the State and the proceeds distributed proportionally to all citizens.

The State will have no power to enact laws, regulations, raise revenue, nor any euphemism or alternative formulation of the aforementioned concepts. Property rights within the State's territory will be transferred only by a trade between agreeable parties. Property ownership and contracts will be tracked by one block chain. Property rights can be enforced by any citizens at any time, so that possession of property agrees with the non-ambiguous statement of the block chain.

The State will have no power over social concerns and welfare, including but not limited to marriage, compulsory education, cohabitation, individual rights, poverty alleviation, and crime. Individuals may voluntarily enter into social contracts on the block chain, in which case the terms of the voluntary contracts can be enforced by any citizens at any time. The citizens may discourage heinous crime by carrying firearms. Punishment during the act can be death by self-defense. Retribution (punishment after the act) is against natural law and thus will not be allowed[1]. The right to carry firearms of any type is universal for all citizens, and there will be absolutely no restrictions nor procedures required to do so. Nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons are not allowed in the State's territory.

Any adult citizen of the State may create his or her own passport, driver's license, and other State issued document necessary to comply with international norms. Adult citizens may create passports for minor offspring but not operator licenses for machinery (i.e. teenagers may not drive in the State's territory and to be enforced by any citizen at any time).

In the case of ambiguity, citizens must respect the freedom of other citizens to do as they please.[2]

Again the State has no power of taxation nor any other form of raising revenue. Treaties of the State can grant revenue generating measures to external powers, but compliance can only be enforced by on citizens by the external power with liens against their private property that is not within the State's territory. There will be no elected officials and no salaries nor developments funded by the State.

The Constitution can not be amended and its terms are perpetual. The only way to absolve this Constitution is for all citizens to renounce their citizenship. Occupation of the State's territory by a foreign power does not suspend this Constitution, which continues even if all the citizens are residents in absentia.

When traveling abroad, citizens are subject to laws of the territorial jurisdiction corresponding to their physical presence. When in international waters, outer or inner space, or within the State's territory, citizens are indemnified by this Constitution against any jurisdictions which impinge on the sovereignty of this constitution.

The State waives its right to a 200-mile Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) around its territory, and instead claims a 1-mile EEZ.

The State may enter any treaty which does not inpinge on any statement in this constitution and the treaty is valid only if approved in writing by at least three-fourths of the living adult citizens who existed at the time the three-fourths supermajority threshold was attained. Any such validated, unexpired treaty may be rescinded by a two-thirds written vote of the living adult citizens.

[1] In other words, citizens have a duty to be proactive about their self-defense, which it the optimum method of reducing crime.

[2] If you don't like your neighbor's barking dog, then move or buy him out. No nanny state here!



The 1933 Convention on Rights and Duties of States, also known as the Montevideo Convention provides for the free will of a people of a territory. Of course the practical problem with enforcing the actionable sovereignty (e.g. getting other states to recognize the passport, etc) of such a micronation is that other powers (e.g. states and other terrorists) will both refuse to recognize the sovereign will of the people of State's territory and some powers may even forcefully attack the territory of the State.

http://www.worldislandinfo.com/Starting%20island%20country.html
https://flagspot.net/flags/to_min.html#des
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Country_of_World_Peace#Efforts_to_obtain_sovereignty
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Trinidad

As you can see from the examples above, states are very interested in making sure we remain vassals by quickly responding to any attempt by natural persons to declare sovereignty over any territory which they purchased and/or occupy. Of course, because the powers of taxation and money creation beget from subjugation of individual sovereignty.

I believe there is a loophole which can be leveraged to render the powers of the states impotent.

There exists UN Convention on Stateless Persons. If you are in a country which is a signatory to this convention and you renounce your existing citizenship (or preferably get an official recognition of your relinquished citizenship), meaning you are a stateless person, then that signatory country where you are physically present must provide certain rights to you. They must provide you with an identity and travel document.



So the action I am asking you to vote on today is as follows. I want to know who is willing to co-purchase a territory for a new State, then travel to a nation which offers residency for foreign expats and which also does not tax foreign residents on foreign income and dividends, then print passports for ourselfs in our new sovereign State, relinquish our existing citizenships, and then declare to the host nation where we are physically present to recognize our citizenship in our sovereign State. The host nation (which must be a signatory to the aforementioned UN convention) must either honor our passports or apply our rights under the stateless person's treaty.

I would suggest we more or less stick together in the same signatory nation so have more political clout and economy-of-scale in completing the process. We could also pool our capital to buy some land and create a community we can protect in coming economic collapse. Some examples of affordable bulk land in suitable climates and signatory nations:

https://web.archive.org/web/20130503074339/http://www.byronlutz.com/antolopez.htm (recently increased to $75,000 for 12 acres)

http://www.bestranches.com.ar/ranches.html
  * 4500 acres with river, trouts, private natural sand beach in the ranch, cascades, streams for $1.4 million
  * 18,000 acres with river for $690,000!


The worst that can happen is we gain residency in this signatory nation and a travel document as stateless persons. Well a stateless person is thus a sovereign person. Thus goal achieved. We can then travel freely back to our State's territory as "stateless persons".

The best that can happen is the signatory nation decides to honor our passports and issue us a travel document to go along with it. And that others in the world might see our success and emulate it.

We should be prepared that the powers-that-be would attempt to crush us by any means possible, because this would be a direct threat to their NWO plans. Or would it? Hmmm. The majority of the people in the world are sheep. They are not going to opt for sovereignty. The powers-that-be have nothing to fear from us. Rather if they attack us, they can create sympathy for us and stir an awakening amongst the masses that they don't want. In other words, we should follow the passive, non-violent approach to attaining freedom a la Gandhi.

In the worst case, we end up with ownership of the State's territory (we can subdivide with individual titles). We get rid of our onerous Western citizenship which in the coming years will be insane expropriation albatross around the neck of every westerner with networth, a business, or income. We carry at least a stateless person's travel document. We probably do destroy our chances of being accepted for purchasing citizenship in an economic citizenship program such as Dominica, but could probably attain citizenship in the signatory country where we are physically present over some years of residency.

Downsides include the very high likelihood that the "Western" (Europeanized) countries in green in the map in the webpage linked below will surely not grant us tourist visas.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11770294/Mapped-How-the-world-is-tackling-human-trafficking.html
http://www.nestmann.com/former-u-s-citizens-face-discrimination-returning-usa

An example of an interesting island to consider is:

http://www.privateislandsonline.com/islands/macuata-island

100 acres for $2.85 million, so that is $28,500 per acre. With 25 of us each investing $114,000, we'd each get roughly 4 acres (1.6 ha).

The reason to choose an island for attempting to establish sovereignty is because no citizens of the nation claiming jurisdiction can claim that we violate their rights to passage or otherwise harm them with our assertion of our rights on our purchased property. The citizens of the claiming nation have no justification to need to travel to our territory because it is private property. One of the reasons an island nation would strongly object to one of its island territories declaring sovereignty is because the 200-mile EEZ could hamper travel within the archipelago if many of the islands so declared their sovereignty.

Also the sovereignty motion would have a better chance of success if the State entered a treaty with the claiming nation respecting the sovereign conflicting sovereign claim of the claiming nation contingent on the claiming nation agreeing to honor the constitution of the State. In other words, an unresolved matter and state of mutually respecting truce. The treaty could include an agreement to pay a VAT tax on any rental and tourism revenue generated within the State's territory, so the claiming nation could save face and also revenue, but the treaty should ideally stipulate that in return the claiming nation would need to show that it spent the VAT on projects which benefited the State such as telecommunications and transportation infrastructure to the State's island. I assume many of the citizens our our micronation would be Knowledge Age workers or have foreign investments and thus wouldn't be subjected to such a VAT any way. Also the treaty could grant our citizens the option to obtain passports from the claiming nation.

In this negotiated way, I think it may be possible to attain some semblence of sovereignty in this mad world:

http://www.worldislandinfo.com/Starting%20island%20country.html

Quote
Problem 3: No process for forming new countries
●   The best solution is to become a leader in an island that might like to break away from its country: Nevis, of St. Kitts-Nevis, for instance.  The separate islands of the Comoros have each achieved substantial autonomy under their own leaders in recent years.  And East Timor has made the transition to sovereign nation.
●   You still need recognition from the international community.  And that requires sympathy, triggered by oppression of your little island, or at least popular support for its breaking away.

It seems the key ingredient is making it more politically and practically painful for the claiming nation to subjugate your State's sovereignty than it is for them to accept a deal that grants them most of the power they had.

The powers-that-be want to control the physical economy. They probably also want to control the Knowledge Age economy, and they think they can by controlling the information highway leading in and out of any physical territory. Thus I doubt they are that concerned about some libertarian nutcases who want to have some sort of pseudo-sovereignty which doesn't really challenge their globalization rules significantly.

I voted "Yes to both".

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August 02, 2015, 01:17:43 AM
 #2

No thanks your rules will only lead in poverty and slow progression
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August 02, 2015, 01:21:38 AM
 #3

No thanks your rules will only lead in poverty and slow progression

I believe exactly the opposite will result. Those useless blobs of flesh will instead migrate away to nanny states (which will euthanize them).

Hey you should have voted, so we can count your "state institutionalized welfare for blobs of useless flesh" opinion.

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August 02, 2015, 02:17:05 AM
 #4

[1] Example. You don't want to become a resident of Australia because they tax foreign residents on foreign earned income and dividends. Thus you enjoy yourself there on tourist visas. Yet suddenly war breaks out and the law of physical presence test is not rescinded even though you can not travel out of Australia because of the war. Sane law can become insane. Example #2. You assume that your European citizenship will not tax you if you are not resident of your citizenship country. Suddenly the EU starts taxing directly and they do not honor such an exemption and I bet they will implement a wealth tax in one form of another eventually.

I believe the economic citizenship programs of the EU nations (even Spain will given you residency if you buy a 300,000 euro property) are a tax trap. They will change the rules on Europeans. It is SOBO (statement of the blatantly obvious) they will not allow Europeans to escape their tax obligations by residing outside the EU, because as they raise taxes on the productive citizens of the EU, the productive Europeans will of course seek out tax havens. Thus the EU will have no choice but to close the loophole that exists. The EU will harmonize with the USA system of taxation (that is what FATCA is for) where you are liable for taxes no matter when you reside. Mark my word! The EU has no fiscal choice because the EU is bankrupt! You never want to be a citizen of a bankrupt nation (or economic union) which has unassailable taxation powers. The Troika is untouchable. They have proved in Greece, they can do what ever they damn well please to you Europeeons (as in peons).



Meanwhile the powers-that-be really do intend to lock you inside the border.

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August 02, 2015, 02:59:23 AM
 #5

No thanks your rules will only lead in poverty and slow progression

I believe exactly the opposite will result. Those useless blobs of flesh will instead migrate away to nanny states (which will euthanize them).

Hey you should have voted, so we can count your "state institutionalized welfare for blobs of useless flesh" opinion.
you don.t like paying taxes to help the less fortunate in life Cry
anyone in life can hit rock bottom so in your state i would be turfed away if this happens to me
sounds like your a total capitalist so sod every one else as long as am ok
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August 02, 2015, 04:15:39 AM
 #6

you don.t like paying taxes to help the less fortunate in life Cry

I don't like paying taxes to help the more fortunate.

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August 02, 2015, 04:19:43 AM
 #7

you don.t like paying taxes to help the less fortunate in life Cry

I don't like paying taxes to help the more fortunate.

And who said we wouldn't help people  Huh The point is we aren't enslaved from doing so by transferring the power to the State collective morass!

Hell’ll never understand how he makes himself political fodder for the ruling class that captures the State (and soon to be eugenics for all with imminent sovereign debt collapse). As I wrote previously...

Oh I very much agree that "most people are morons".

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August 02, 2015, 10:52:13 PM
 #8

The world already suffers from having too many nations, governments and other non natural entities. Please, let's not start another one. Better destroy all the existing nations. Actually, this may prove unnecessary as they're all crumbling down. USA and Europe are built on deficit. Countries only exist because simple minds believe in them.

Read more from me and follow me on Steemit: https://steemit.com/@countryfree
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August 02, 2015, 11:24:32 PM
 #9

you don.t like paying taxes to help the less fortunate in life Cry

I don't like paying taxes to help the more fortunate.



Change that statement to "I don't like paying taxes"

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August 02, 2015, 11:39:19 PM
 #10

A very common objection to anarchism is that people are inherently immoral, or stupid, and couldn't be trusted to govern themselves.
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August 02, 2015, 11:42:11 PM
 #11

you don.t like paying taxes to help the less fortunate in life Cry

I don't like paying taxes to help the more fortunate.



Change that statement to "I don't like paying taxes"

You make your statements, I'll make mine. I said what I meant.
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August 03, 2015, 12:28:16 AM
 #12

A very common objection to anarchism is that people are inherently immoral, or stupid, and couldn't be trusted to govern themselves.

And that people who are inherently immoral, or stupid, can be trusted to govern others.

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Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
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August 03, 2015, 01:47:06 AM
 #13

Edit: also note I was also describing a safe way to become a stateless person.

The world already suffers from having too many nations, governments and other non natural entities. Please, let's not start another one. Better destroy all the existing nations. Actually, this may prove unnecessary as they're all crumbling down. USA and Europe are built on deficit. Countries only exist because simple minds believe in them.

That is why we are also working on an anonymous Knowledge Age:

One does not simply "vote" for anarchy.

Well I am arguing at the linked thread, that some balance between perfect anarchy and the world we current live in will be required to get any practical achievement.

Edit: I have not forsaken the orthogonal concept of an anonymous Knowledge Age so as to be defacto sovereign individually without any vote nor group affiliation. Remember we still have a physical body thus we are always physically present in some jurisdiction. The linked post above addresses this reality of our physicality.

But you need to be cognizant of the fact that the majority of people will not agree to give up the nations, because they want to use force to expropriate wealth from the "1%" and redistribute it to the 0.001% (in fact it is a redistribution of wealth from the 99.999% to the 0.001% but the ignoramuses who are poor stay poor because they have been fooled by the 0.001%). It sadly humorous to see these ignoramuses self-destructing into a blood (666) sucking NWO like dogs chasing their own tails.

Guardians  Huh Their idea of guardian is moar debt-funded, welfare spending. They are self-destructors, walking hand grenades.

Unfortunately, we anarchists can be collateral damage caused by these ignoramuses.

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August 03, 2015, 01:54:49 AM
 #14

Change that statement to "I don't like paying taxes"

That is correct. I don't like paying taxes to fund the 0.001% to capture the political process, because actually what you ignoramuses want is to fund everything in life for free, thus you allow the State to go into debt and be controlled by the banks and then after the fact you call for regulation when it is entirely too late any way and wouldn't work (Glass-Steagal was repealed by Clinton).

Let me put it more concisely. You socialist pigs want a world that steals for you.

Whereas, we want a meritocracy and one in which we can help the poor to rise up and be prosperous. And even giving them assistance while they make the transition from a life of dependence to a life of accomplishment. We would give this assistance individual-to-individual fostering local community and reputation (because we are proud of our hard work and want to share our accomplishments and see a better and happier world), so that terrorists such as yourself can't hide behind the government welfare system to avoid the shame of actually never trying to be productive. Yet your ilk labels us as the terrorists  Huh What kind of upside, down fucked up world you have created.

Again I think you are lower in value to humanity than a pig (at least it produces food for humanity and doesn't promote a mad max hell of theft as you do). And the 0.001% that you have enabled thinks you are a "useless eater" and they are planning to exterminate you in the coming global economic collapse which you enabled with all your debt funded welfare.


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August 03, 2015, 02:23:19 AM
 #15

...

There was a group, some 20 - 25 years ago, who planned to try and buy some land in S America (not Peru, although it was in the running -- Fujimori) AND negotiate with the host government to allow them to have independence.

One of the major incentives the group was trying to offer was that they would let locals from the host country work there (and of course the investors/migrants buy the land).

It seemed like an OK plan, it was detailed, they were raising funds.  But, to my knowledge, it went nowhere.

*   *   *

My guess is that local sovereign countries will NEVER allow an independent state coming from "their" country.

And, as far as I know, there is NO unclaimed land in the world, every island is claimed.

Let me know if I am wrong.
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August 03, 2015, 02:29:57 AM
 #16

My guess is that local sovereign countries will NEVER allow an independent state coming from "their" country.

Again my point is they can't take away the land you own, so what can they do to deny your claim of sovereignty?

They can ignore all of your claims and get other nations to ignore them as well. And so I proposed (after purchasing the sovereign territory and declaring it sovereign) then to travel to a country that has ratified the UN Convention on Stateless Persons, and then renounce your birth citizenship. Then claim you are citizen of the sovereign State. The host country whch is ratified the UN Convention on Stateless Persons (not the country you are claiming to form an independent state with their claimed territory) must give you certain rights as stipulated in that UN convention. One of those rights is they can not deport you, thus they must either allow you to become a stateless resident of their country or they must recognize your new sovereign State passport. Either way you win, because you are either stateless (yet allowed to reside) or you are a recognized citizen of the new sovereign State. If you pick carefully the host country, then you won't be liable for any taxes on foreign earned income nor dividends. So in essence you will have become somewhat sovereign in either case.

I found a clever loophole.

Please try to understand my logic. I think most people don't even read my OP carefully.

However, I will say that my proposal is not the most efficient way of accomplishing a tax haven. And it could severely restrict your ability to travel internationally. Thus I doubt any one would want to do it. It makes no sense unless you consider that the world might enter a mad max with pandemic, global economic collapse, war, and even a Little Ice Age coming. So you might just want to pick one place in a warm climate to hunker down.

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August 03, 2015, 02:37:02 AM
 #17

My guess is that local sovereign countries will NEVER allow an independent state coming from "their" country.

Again my point is they can't take away the land you own, so what can they do to deny your claim of sovereignty?

They can ignore all of your claims and get other nations to ignore them as well. And so I proposed (after purchasing the sovereign territory and declaring it sovereign) then to travel to a country that has ratified the UN Convention on Stateless Persons, and then renounce your birth citizenship. Then claim you are citizen of the sovereign State. The host country whch is ratified the UN Convention on Stateless Persons (not the country you are claiming to form an independent state with their claimed territory) must give you certain rights as stipulated in that UN convention. One of those rights is they can not deport you, thus they must either allow you to become a stateless resident of their country or they must recognize your new sovereign State passport. Either way you win, because you are either stateless (yet allowed to reside) or you are a recognized citizen of the new sovereign State. If you pick carefully the host country, then you won't be liable for any taxes on foreign earned income nor dividends. So in essence you will have become somewhat sovereign in either case.

I found a clever loophole.

Please try to understand my logic. I think most people don't even read my OP carefully.

However, I will say that my proposal is not the most efficient way of accomplishing a tax haven. And it could severely restrict your ability to travel internationally. Thus I doubt any one would want to do it. It makes no sense unless you consider that the world might enter a mad max with pandemic, global economic collapse, war, and even a Little Ice Age coming. So you might just want to pick one place in warm climate to hunker down.


Loopholes and other shit won't work in Peru.  And at Casey's Ranch near Cafayete, Argentina, as soon as anything gets rockin' & rollin' there, the .gov will come in and ruin it.

And if one government leaves such a "independent country" (on UN legal technicalities, ah...), the next one Socialist one will undo it, confiscate what they wish, and boot out (or jail) troublemakers.

The UN and its rulez don't mean squat.  North Korea.  Or even look at Venezuela, you think Maduro would leave a wealthy enclave of producers alone?  No way.  No way other countries would recognize such a revolutionary idea as an independent group of high-producers...


EDIT:

The way I see it, you would have to buy a WHOLE ISLAND NATION, all of it, and bribe the (ex-)sovereigns from then to infinity...

EDIT 2:

"Again my point is they can't take away the land you own, so what can they do to deny your claim of sovereignty?"

Land you own?  We don't even have secure land ownership rights in the USA.  Sovereign countries will do as they please.

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August 03, 2015, 02:48:29 AM
 #18

OROBTC if you want to argue the position of an extreme mad max world into a bottomless pit, then I won't stand in your way. That is why we are also working on an anonymous Knowledge Age.

My point is assuming a world that still has some semblance of law, respect for international law which they explicitly ratified on a country-by-country basis, and respect for property rights then I offer a proposal.

Btw, there is an incredibly remote (no airplane service within 1000 kilometers) island nation with only 56 citizens (who will I presume likely be impoverished if cruise ships stop running in a global economic collapse) which will be ripe for buyout in the coming global economic collapse.

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August 03, 2015, 03:28:29 AM
 #19

ok so how would your state work then if you had no welfare system how would all your people work and gain a wage so they can live happy..
don.t forget you say you cannot give welfare benefits to your people so what happens when i loose my job how do i pay the bills.... my house and food..
so who gives me this money to help me if no TAXES
plus you keep saying property what if i don.t own any property can i still live in your state..
so if you say yes well who gives me this house do i go knock on peoples doors begging because you have no government so who do i see
 micronation what would your laws be who do i see if i have a problem
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August 03, 2015, 03:48:09 AM
 #20

OROBTC if you want to argue the position of an extreme mad max world into a bottomless pit, then I won't stand in your way. That is why we are also working on an anonymous Knowledge Age.

My point is assuming a world that still has some semblance of law, respect for international law which they explicitly ratified on a country-by-country basis, and respect for property rights then I offer a proposal.

Btw, there is an incredibly remote (no airplane service within 1000 kilometers) island nation with only 56 citizens (who will I presume likely be impoverished if cruise ships stop running in a global economic collapse) which will be ripe for buyout in the coming global economic collapse.


Would The Philippines respect your sovereignty if someone bought one of the islands on the "margin" (remote)?  Bet they would not, bet they would not respect UN rulez (technicalitiez) re "stateless people".

Only 56 people?  It's not Nauru (my first guess, 10,000 there (Wikipedia)).

Ahh, got it.  Pitcairn.   I wonder how much they would want (and we pay them to leave)?  It is (story link below) a British Overseas Territory, so might not be for sale.  Would guess NOT.

Here's a story with pictures for the readers of this thread on Pitcairn, no one wants to move there (wiki also has an article):

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/pitcairnislands/11418280/Why-will-nobody-move-to-Pitcairn-the-Pacific-island-with-free-land.html

Looks kind of nice actually...

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August 03, 2015, 04:48:14 AM
 #21

very very hard to run a country without government
just need a leader that wont fill his own pockets
see i always used to say why don.t they pay the leader well more money because there on about 200k a year may be a bit less
compare to a actor or footballer then they might live by the book instead of taking back handers off the rich
for a policy or a contract
what we should do is say the president gets 1 million a year then he as been paid 5 million for his 5 year term
 then what we do is have a vote and if he been a good president and we all vote to say yes he as been a good president then he get another 5 million bonus so it gives him the incentive to be a good president

because i reckon we the people loose more than that in taxes of the super rich and contracts in your area
and stupid projects we know nowt about and the policies of the super rich
 lets face it as long as we need money to make are lives happy then even leaders can be bought for a price
its all about the money baby Wink Wink
but anyway good luck with your micronation might come for a holiday if you got any beaches Cheesy Cheesy
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August 03, 2015, 04:52:16 AM
 #22

ok so how would your state work then if you had no welfare system how would all your people work and gain a wage so they can live happy..
don.t forget you say you cannot give welfare benefits to your people so what happens when i loose my job how do i pay the bills.... my house and food..
so who gives me this money to help me if no TAXES
plus you keep saying property what if i don.t own any property can i still live in your state..
so if you say yes well who gives me this house do i go knock on peoples doors begging because you have no government so who do i see
 micronation what would your laws be who do i see if i have a problem

For one thing, we wouldn't interfere with your ability to grow your own food, which our modern nanny-state governments highly regulate and restrict making it too costly to do.

So there you (your wife probably while you are doing analytical work such as reengineering the barn) are growing your own food, making sex with your wife, producing offspring. You'd have to have enough capital to begin with to purchase land otherwise you wouldn't be joining our project. Thus you'd already demonstrated the ability to be responsible and produce. And assume you would thus be responsible and educate your offspring so they can produce also. Your wife might even be a home schooling mother perhaps in conjunction with other families in the neighborhood. This is what women really want to do and what really makes them happy.

I bet we'd also be donating non-compulsory educational programs as well, to encourage a literate society that can be self-reliant via production.

As for those in the world now who are stuck, we'd probably be using our great wealth to reach out and offer education and work opportunities abroad. Trade is an important aspect of commerce and productivity.

This great lie of "democracy" and "socialism" has been foisted upon the world. The main problem humans faced was protection from attacking armies and also technological and organizational (high fixed capital) problems with production (e.g. roads, problems with pandemics, etc).

We have a lot more technology now, and the question is are we going to let the 0.001% enslave us with it, or are we going to empower humanity to use it?

I think one of the key distinctions is that these days even Khan Academy (one guy making educational videos) can change the world. The information age reduces the fixed capital requirements required to help people improve.

That is not to say it would be perfect, but it would be better than the abysmal trajectory the world is headed now...

What is the point of this life if you can't help and see other humans happy? Some sociopaths want all the power, but really that is a very lonely and unnatural goal. It exists only because we empower those sociopaths with our inane foolishness to think that "democracy" and "socialism" are in our best interests.

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August 03, 2015, 05:04:18 AM
 #23

ok so how would your state work then if you had no welfare system how would all your people work and gain a wage so they can live happy..
don.t forget you say you cannot give welfare benefits to your people so what happens when i loose my job how do i pay the bills.... my house and food..
so who gives me this money to help me if no TAXES
plus you keep saying property what if i don.t own any property can i still live in your state..
so if you say yes well who gives me this house do i go knock on peoples doors begging because you have no government so who do i see
 micronation what would your laws be who do i see if i have a problem

For one thing, we wouldn't interfere with your ability to grow your own food, which our modern nanny-state governments highly regulate and restrict making it too costly to do.

So there you are growing your own food, making sex with your wife, producing offspring. You'd have to have enough capital to begin with to purchase land otherwise you wouldn't be joining our project. Thus you'd already demonstrated the ability to be responsible and produce. And assume you would thus be responsible and educate your offspring so they can produce also. Your wife might even be a home schooling mother perhaps in conjunction with other families in the neighborhood. This is what women really want to do and what really makes them happy.

I bet we'd also be providing educational programs as well, to encourage a literate society that can be self-reliant via production.

As for those in the world now who are stuck, we'd probably be using our great wealth to reach out and offer education and work opportunities abroad. Trade is an important aspect of commerce and productivity.

This great lie of "democracy" and "socialism" has been foisted upon the world. The main problem humans faced was protection from attacking armies and also technological and organizational (high fixed capital) problems with production (e.g. roads, problems with pandemics, etc).

We have a lot more technology now, and the question is are we going to let the 0.001% enslave us with it, or are we going to empower humanity to use it?
You'd have to have enough capital to begin with to purchase land otherwise you wouldn't be joining our project. Thus you'd already demonstrated the ability to be responsible and produce.

this is what you say..  so what if i got all my money of mummy and daddy and all i ever done was party
how do i grow a carrot
and i never learned at school because i am stinking rich and i want a slave to do it i throw him a few shillings to clean my pool and grow my veg is this ok in your state

What is the point of this life if you can't help and see other humans happy? Some sociopaths want all the power,

is this not you.... think about it for a 1min
if your trying to make humans lives happy well how will you make mine happy if i got no money to buy land in your eyes i am worthless
so does that not make you the same as most governments your already telling me if i got no money to buzz off

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August 03, 2015, 05:15:22 AM
 #24

this is what you say..  so what if i got all my money of mummy and daddy and all i ever done was party
how do i grow a carrot
and i never learned at school because i am stinking rich and i want a slave to do it i throw him a few shillings to clean my pool and grow my veg is this ok in your state

The key is to destroy usury which I assert the Knowledge Age does (c.f the OP of the Economic Devastation thread). So this unproductive brat will end up destitute soon enough and his wealth will have been transferred to those who are productive.

Eliminating the high fixed capital component of production is the main reason we can now jettison democracy and socialism. The technology has changed what society can be.

if your trying to make humans lives happy well how will you make mine happy if i got no money to buy land in your eyes i am worthless
so does that not make you the same as most governments your already telling me if i got no money to buzz off

By reaching out to you abroad with educational opportunities to better yourself and earn enough to join in. Donations if you really need it, to help you bridge the gap. But if you are determined to just be a leech on society's best faith attempts to help you, then yes you will be ignored and perish as it should be for any pest or parasite.

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August 03, 2015, 05:25:39 AM
 #25

just need a leader that wont fill his own pockets

Read the OP of this thread again. We propose no revenue generation and no power for any leader.

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August 03, 2015, 05:36:00 AM
 #26

Would The Philippines respect your sovereignty if someone bought one of the islands on the "margin" (remote)?  Bet they would not,

I did not propose to attempt to take territory from a powerful, large state. The Philippines has a population exceeding 100 million.

bet they would not respect UN rulez (technicalitiez) re "stateless people".

The Philippines ratified it in 2011 after signing it 50 years ago. So apparently they are very much willing to abide by it. In my experience, the Philippines would. You could go on TV Patrol to garnish local sympathy.

It is (story link below) a British Overseas Territory, so might not be for sale.  Would guess NOT.

The islanders are not desperate right now. You'd have to wait for the coming economic implosion. You could migrate there by the dozens and gain enough political power to help set policy, which I think is more realistic than trying to overtly buy them out in one move. The best would be a gradual infiltration and convincing (with money galore to help in the convincing). I could not accomplish that by myself. With perhaps 5 other like-minded guys and their extended families migrating there, we could probably accomplish it. The UK would fight us, but fuck them. As I explained earlier, there are limits to what they can do. Did you see the rape case on the island? The UK couldn't even put them in prison for a long time. The governor of the island was involved.

Looks kind of nice actually...

I would go crazy there. Especially they don't have fiber optic cable so the internet is atrociously slow (Tahiti has it some 1000 miles away). There is no way to land a plane there, so it is 3 days by boat to the nearest island that has air access (the other island under their nation could handle an airport but the UN declared it a private wildlife refuge  Roll Eyes). The island is pretty damn small. Be okay if you like the people a lot and enjoy being around them.

I'd say if we could upgrade the infrastructure, and accomplish our goal, it might be worth trying?

We'd have to invest some time living there. We couldn't just waltz in and take over in one week. This would be a disruption to our lives. Is it worth it?

Also we'd really have to maintain the lives of the people there and what they love. I think they are essentially already anarchists, but they have some socialist needs.

One thing is the locals are not reproducing (youngest child is a 12 year old girl, next youngest is a 19 year old man) and many want to leave. So they would I think over time wither away in political control, if our offspring and immigrations were significant.

It is a lot of effort to undertake. I would not even consider it, unless I was sure we had a plan to outnumber the existing population.\

Edit: let me add that I am not interested to destroy the lives of the people there. I would only migrate there if I felt I could uplift their lives.

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August 03, 2015, 05:37:32 AM
 #27

this is what you say..  so what if i got all my money of mummy and daddy and all i ever done was party
how do i grow a carrot
and i never learned at school because i am stinking rich and i want a slave to do it i throw him a few shillings to clean my pool and grow my veg is this ok in your state

The key is to destroy usury which I assert the Knowledge Age does (c.f the OP of the Economic Devastation thread). So this unproductive brat will end up destitute soon enough and his wealth will have been transferred to those who are productive.

Eliminating the high fixed capital component of production is the main reason we can now jettison democracy and socialism. The technology has changed what society can be.

if your trying to make humans lives happy well how will you make mine happy if i got no money to buy land in your eyes i am worthless
so does that not make you the same as most governments your already telling me if i got no money to buzz off

By reaching out to you abroad with educational opportunities to better yourself and earn enough to join in. Donations if you really need it, to help you bridge the gap. But if you are determined to just be a leech on society's best faith attempts to help you, then yes you will be ignored and perish as it should be for any pest or parasite.
Undecided :-\so is that not a type of benefit system then
so you don.t like giving money to the government to pay for welfare but you will give me money if i live in another country to buy a house  Undecided Undecided
so what about all my friends they got no money will you help them too or just me 1 person
don.t you see the problem not everyone in life can make money because if it was so easy we would all be rich
there will always be more poor than rich so who helps the poor
i always say health education food and a roof over your head is what every government needs taxes to pay for if you got no money
i don,t expect a car or a holiday or money to eat out or go to the fair i don.t expect government to pay for those things if i am poor
but health shelter food yes if i fall on hard times
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August 03, 2015, 05:39:15 AM
 #28

popcorn1, you didn't understand my replies, so I will not clutter this thread with more replies that you wouldn't understand. Best to you.

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August 03, 2015, 07:31:10 AM
 #29

Quote from: Noam Chomsky
"what’s called libertarian in the United States, which is a special U. S. phenomenon, it doesn’t really exist anywhere else — a little bit in England — permits a very high level of authority and domination but in the hands of private power:  so private power should be unleashed to do whatever it likes.  The assumption is that by some kind of magic, concentrated private power will lead to a more free and just society...

just a call for some of the worst kinds of tyranny, namely unaccountable private tyranny."

Please point out to the senile Noam Chomsky that he is describing democracy, where the 0.001% (the unaccountable private owners of the governments) convince the 99% to tax the 1%, which is really a tax on the 99.999%.

Any inane socialist pigheaded questions?

http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/16385

Quote
I was in Australia when they were proposing the Luxury Tax. They got the people to vote for higher taxes by lying to them. The slogan was they were going to tax the rich with their “Ferraris, Fur Coats, and French Wines.”  Everyone cheered – ya! Get the bastards! When the tax was passed, suddenly the dumb public discovered ALL electrical products were included. You could not buy a clock radio without the Luxury Tax.

People get what they deserve from government – lie, lies, and more lies, and empty pockets to show for it.

http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/35453

Quote
Governments promised that they would never use E-ZPass [toll booth elimination] technology for speeding tickets, but they lied. A friend received a speeding ticket in the mail from Virginia, stating that they drove through the E-ZPass lane 10 mph above the speed limit. I remain skeptical about government because they are simply not trustworthy.

http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/23950

Quote
Earn just US$100,000 and you have made it to the hated top 1% that they argue deprive the 99% without exactly explain why it is such people rather than governments.

Taxes have been increasing exponentially and this has reduced new job creation from small business because in many developed countries, savings are still at rock bottom levels after the tax burden. This is just glaringly obvious when we look at Western Europe. The growth since 2007 in the sheer the volume of financial assets that have been accumulated is down by about 50% on average whereas Germany has been hit even harder as wealth has fallen to just 40% of the pre-crisis level. Germans on average now pay more than 50% in taxes and with the pending confiscation of 10% of their asset to bailout banks and an additional 5% tax to bailout the municipal governments, this trend in Germany may wipe out its ability to even create wealth moving into 2032.

Strangely, even with the French-elite socialist inspired IMF proposal to just confiscate 10% of everyone’s bank accounts in Europe, it appears that the majority of people do not pay attention to the financial news. In Europe, bank deposits are still the investment of choice, whereas long-term investments, including equities, are still being avoided as evil and untrustworthy since 2007. This has contributed to the historic low in retail participation in the stock market that is only furthering the gap between the “rich” and the “poor”. Money is just being “parked” rather than invested and this is clearly a major concern for any downturn from here will have even less wealth to provide a cushion for the middle class. Consequently, the next downturn appears to be far worse than anything previously. This is at odds with individuals facing retirement when the governments have unfunded liabilities and keep turning to higher taxes rather than looking at the problem long-term.

The rising disparity between the “rich” no one wishes to actually define and the “poor” who is defined as having less than the “rich”, is impacted by the rising taxation that is also reducing job creation and sending interest in borrowing for investment in Europe to record lows. That trend will hit the US shores starting in 2016.

http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/26331



Quote
The socialists love to tout that 1% of the world’s population will own more wealth than the other 99%. From the socialists’ viewpoint, this justifies stealing from one group to give to another, despite this model failing in the past. It is also in clear violation of the Ten Commandments. But why does this trend even happen? Is it that the 1% suppress the 99%? Or could it be that government suppresses the 99%?

The 99% cannot get richer because government robs them every day. What should have been put into savings and investments, was squandered as usual by politicians. So is it the fault of those who actually invest on their own? The socialists want to blame the rich and rob them, handing more and more assets to the political class who waste it on themselves.

The 99% need to wake up. It ain’t the 1% – It is those who pretend to be on your side who deprive you of your real right to economic freedom.

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August 03, 2015, 11:13:37 AM
 #30


The islanders are not desperate right now. You'd have to wait for the coming economic implosion. You could migrate there by the dozens and gain enough political power to help set policy, which I think is more realistic than trying to overtly buy them out in one move. The best would be a gradual infiltration and convincing (with money galore to help in the convincing). I could not accomplish that by myself. With perhaps 5 other like-minded guys and their extended families migrating there, we could probably accomplish it. The UK would fight us, but fuck them. As I explained earlier, there are limits to what they can do. Did you see the rape case on the island? The UK couldn't even put them in prison for a long time. The governor of the island was involved.

Looks kind of nice actually...

I would go crazy there. Especially they don't have fiber optic cable so the internet is atrociously slow (Tahiti has it some 1000 miles away). There is no way to land a plane there, so it is 3 days by boat to the nearest island that has air access (the other island under their nation could handle an airport but the UN declared it a private wildlife refuge  Roll Eyes). The island is pretty damn small. Be okay if you like the people a lot and enjoy being around them.

I'd say if we could upgrade the infrastructure, and accomplish our goal, it might be worth trying?

We'd have to invest some time living there. We couldn't just waltz in and take over in one week. This would be a disruption to our lives. Is it worth it?

Also we'd really have to maintain the lives of the people there and what they love. I think they are essentially already anarchists, but they have some socialist needs.

One thing is the locals are not reproducing and many want to leave. So they would I think over time wither away in political control, if our offspring and immigrations were significant.

Chickenshit Wink All talk, no action.
If self-flagellation and voluntary imprisonment, to avoid the spectre of government of course, is your thing then go for it.

What's the difference between a remote "sovereign" island, and a remote "prison" island? The name.

You're probably making it far too complicated btw. Couldn't you just sue the Brits for negligently putting Pitcairn in the path of your expensive container ship?

Then buy them out as part of the settlement.

Redecorate the ship with a landing strip. Problem solved! Until the next storm...

It would probably be a waste of your skills though. Get back to programming. Stop caring so much about imaginary monsters. Make some apps to help people. You've fallen into the trap of being an "expert", who tries to improve the world while forgetting that you're the one learning.

Quote

It is a lot of effort to undertake. I would not even consider it, unless I was sure we had a plan to outnumber the existing population.
You talk to the Brits first, because bureaucracy is fascinating, and use your social skills with the locals later.
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August 03, 2015, 12:43:40 PM
 #31

You talk to the Brits first, because bureaucracy is fascinating, and use your social skills with the locals later.

I rather instead fancy letting the Brits occupy a remote island, but unlike the Falklands where they had the support of the local population, in this case where the citizens are in absentia accused of being stateless persons and refugees in other countries (those host countries bound by a UN Convention on Stateless Persons). A standoff of sorts.

The point was let them violate the sovereignty of Pitcairn if they want to, under the watchful eye of the people of the world. Let them try to spin their propaganda on the airwaves, while the truth leaks out through 100s of anonymous blogs on the new anonymous internet. Let the Brits destroy the peaceful lives of the descendants of the original settlers.

Maybe along the way, hackers (such as Anonymous) with new untraceable drone technology that sinks every British supply ship that tries to resupply their occupying troops.

You are highly underestimating the power of programmers and math in this coming Knowledge Age.

If ever 100,000 programmers and mathematicians turn against the 0.001%, the 0.001% will be burnt toast.

I think also you perhaps ignored the part of the OP that talks about trying to negotiate treaties with the competing claimants on sovereignty, e.g. some treaty by which the Brits retain some influence if they back off from a direct confrontation. TPTB have to calculate their potential losses from a direct confrontation. The point is to make it less costly for them to accede some sovereignty than for them to try to bully their way.

Imagine the lone student standing in front of the tanks at Tiananmen Square that led to the fall of the Iron Curtain in China.

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August 03, 2015, 12:58:59 PM
 #32

43 year old Litvinenko drank tea containing a fatal dose of radioactive polonium during a meeting in London in 2006.

Mr Emmerson alleges that The Kremlin wanted Mr Litvinenko dead and provided the poison used to kill him.

But Russia are the good guys because they provided safe habor for Snowden right?

Wrong! The axis powers are in bed together.

Just do a little research on how Larry Summers was over there in Russia after fall of the Iron Curtain helping to redistribute nationalized assets to oligarchs. Follow the money trail to Goldman Sachs, LTCM, the collapse of Russian bonds, Edmond Safra, Martin Armstrong, etc...

http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/armstrong-economics-behind-the-curtain-the-full-monty-0110.pdf

http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/looking-behind-the-curtain4909.pdf


Btw, there was Goldman again writing derivatives to help Greece hide its fiscal negligence so it could be fully bankrupted in the coming conflagration.

It is one big 0.001% club, and you the 99% people ain't in it.

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August 03, 2015, 06:18:05 PM
 #33


You are highly underestimating the power of programmers and math in this coming Knowledge Age.

If ever 100,000 programmers and mathematicians turn against the 0.001%, the 0.001% will be burnt toast.

What do you mean "if"? Don't they routinely use Project Fridays / 20% time for wholesale subterfuge anyway? Somebody has to work on all those large FOSS projects that mysteriously keep-up with the likes of MS Office, Photoshop, or Google Maps. Or maybe I'm being overenthusiastic. (I'm still thinking about the economics there.)

You could... guide people in that department. As for having a sovereign island/principality, you seem to be reacting to some kind of fear. (I heard that Australia has at least one of those, so you could probably just speak with them and find out what the issues are). The fear of big bad government is controlling you. Maybe you're legitimately onto something, but you need to be able to present your story in a way will inspire and cut through the average person's scepticism. I've heard you complain along those lines before, inviting others to "do the explaining". Well, write a book. If you don't know how, try it out. Disguise it as science fiction. Why suffer trying to 'convince' people, when you could plant ideas that take on a life of their own?
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August 03, 2015, 10:01:14 PM
 #34

popcorn1, you didn't understand my replies, so I will not clutter this thread with more replies that you wouldn't understand. Best to you.
i do understand its you who thinks you can make a better system than our UK system
see what is stopping you from doing what you want ..go live on some island and make a new system that you think is fair..
your not looking at the bigger picture you only care for people with money other wise why say i need to buy land I GOT NO MONEY TO BUY ANY

now if you tried to build a micronation with your rules you need to invite people for free now do you get it
free house free education and a job for me to earn a crust
then i might come and live in your land of rules Wink Wink

see you need to think about population explosion.. will start off all good and well but as time goes on then what..
say we have a drought and my carrots don.t grow
say population rate grows how do we keep every one in a job
say i invent a robot and wipe half the jobs out
then what do the people do on our new island of new rules with not many jobs left
your not thinking about the negatives only the positives how do you cope with all the negatives
it takes 100s of years to make a good system and as time goes by you make more rules to fit the time
if life is all about money then many will suffer
some people in life are stronger and cleverer than most people they end up with the money
so what about the weak do you kill them or help them
well if you help them have you not just become a nanny state Wink Wink Wink

how did USA get its people they give away land for free to farm
how did Australia  get it people they offered free land to farm




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August 03, 2015, 11:18:45 PM
 #35

Edit: also note I was also describing a safe way to become a stateless person.

The world already suffers from having too many nations, governments and other non natural entities. Please, let's not start another one. Better destroy all the existing nations. Actually, this may prove unnecessary as they're all crumbling down. USA and Europe are built on deficit. Countries only exist because simple minds believe in them.

That is why we are also working on an anonymous Knowledge Age:

One does not simply "vote" for anarchy.

Well I am arguing at the linked thread, that some balance between perfect anarchy and the world we current live in will be required to get any practical achievement.

Edit: I have not forsaken the orthogonal concept of an anonymous Knowledge Age so as to be defacto sovereign individually without any vote nor group affiliation. Remember we still have a physical body thus we are always physically present in some jurisdiction. The linked post above addresses this reality of our physicality.

You shall avoid at all costs to become stateless, that should kill your right to travel. I like more the idea of an anonymous knowledge age. Somehow, I kinda live in it already, with my passport in my pocket. I'm physically present in a country, and I'm even working there despite not having the right to work, but there isn't the slightest link between me and that country. I shall leave before one occurs.

Read more from me and follow me on Steemit: https://steemit.com/@countryfree
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August 04, 2015, 12:57:17 AM
 #36

betting 100€ that it wont work out


micronations especially one like this will for always be only a dream.

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August 04, 2015, 10:46:03 AM
 #37

Why suffer trying to 'convince' people, when you could plant ideas that take on a life of their own?

I am only convincing those people who matter, because as Linus Torvalds explained well, "most people are morons" and thus they can never understand.

popcorn1 is apparently a prime example because he can't seem to comprehend that rewarding habitual, willful failure is a human eugenics (potentially extinction) paradigm, due to the resiliency that is only attainable with Taleb's Anti-fragility, i.e. not overcommitting to egregious error which all collectives/politics inherently do.

And actually I am not trying to convince in this thread. I am just gathering a poll and feedback on how many people rationalize similarly to myself. Also to brainstorm potential solutions and dismiss non-solutions and impractical ideas.

It is also serves to be an "in your face" middle finger to socialist pigs. I get a kick out of that, but I wouldn't start a thread just to annoy socialists. I need to have some real work achievement goal in mind. This thread is gathering data. Everyone who contributes to the thread is appreciated (popcorn1 included), despite diametrical philosophical and political views expressed.


The political strategy is to make politics (collectivized resource appropriation) less relevant so people are more in tune with what benefits them, i.e. Welcome to the Knowledge Age.

Some people refer to this transformation as an Inverse Commons:

http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/magic-cauldron/magic-cauldron-5.html

Somewhere in the following video Linus explains for example how the technology of decentralized version control eliminates the politics over whom gets commit rights:

https://youtu.be/4XpnKHJAok8?t=488 (haha)

https://youtu.be/4XpnKHJAok8?t=1114 ("most people are morons")  <------ Edit: this one and the next one apply to my point

https://youtu.be/4XpnKHJAok8?t=1648 ("most of you are incompetent", "there are some few who are outstanding", "hey that person is smarter than I am")

Again increases in degrees-of-freedom doesn't have to be selfish even if it is physical. For example, if remove that obstacle that makes us all walk further than we need to.

You don't need to change the will of all the people, just the people who matter economically.

I figure those people who don't want to prioritize working with me already fail that test., lol  Tongue

No the real problem is providing a way for the people who want to productive to separate themselves from those who want to perish.

Convincing people to change is a waste of time.

Individual responsibility is only motivated by not providing a nanny state.

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August 04, 2015, 12:49:48 PM
 #38

The world already suffers from having too many nations, governments and other non natural entities. Please, let's not start another one. Better destroy all the existing nations. Actually, this may prove unnecessary as they're all crumbling down. USA and Europe are built on deficit. Countries only exist because simple minds believe in them.

Ahem. Sorry you are living in a fantasy of your own irrational choice. The nation-states will crumble into a one-world reserve currency and governance as planned/implemented by those owners of the world who will benefit.

I urge someone to email this to Martin Armstrong and ask him to get a grip on reality. He still thinks the USA and Russia are enemies, lol.

...

That movie/documentary (is there a vocabulary word?) is accurate to some extent as to the difficulties one can face during an economic collapse and especially in war, but it is not exactly the reality we face, primarily because we must grasp that TPTB (the core most people behind the curtain of those 147 transnational corporations that own and run the world) do not want to lose control of their ownership.

...

Rather the goal of TPTB is to eliminate their competition and threats to their economies-of-scale and profits, i.e. those pesky smaller sovereigns (nations, local governments, upstart millionaires, etc) that get in the way of their monopolies. They use the crisis they create in order to grab more power, as you can see they are doing in both Ukraine and Greece now.

...

Simultaneously they can take out the weaker gun rights advocates by sending the IRS after them, Civil Asset Forfeiture and numerous others means of picking off the weak from the herd to weaken the herd.

...

Note according to MA's computer models of repeating cycles, we may see a pandemic starting in 2017 and peaking 2018, and this is a wild card because TPTB may not be able to entirely control the effects of a rapid spread. The severity, death rate, speed of death, and mode of transmission are unknown, so we can't yet estimate the effects. However, maybe we can look to the Spanish Flu epidemic in the early 1900s for clues. The government did not lose control. People became more dependent on the government to enforce quarantines and isolation wards (warehouses filled with sick). You see the government has been building detention camps all over the USA, so maybe they are prepared.

...

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August 04, 2015, 01:02:54 PM
 #39

You shall avoid at all costs to become stateless, that should kill your right to travel. I like more the idea of an anonymous knowledge age. Somehow, I kinda live in it already, with my passport in my pocket. I'm physically present in a country, and I'm even working there despite not having the right to work, but there isn't the slightest link between me and that country. I shall leave before one occurs.

And in the coming global economic conflagration when your citizenship country cancels your passport to force you home to stop you from avoiding taxation?

And proceeds to quarantine you in a detention camp due to the global pandemic:

Note according to MA's computer models of repeating cycles, we may see a pandemic starting in 2017 and peaking 2018, and this is a wild card because TPTB may not be able to entirely control the effects of a rapid spread. The severity, death rate, speed of death, and mode of transmission are unknown, so we can't yet estimate the effects. However, maybe we can look to the Spanish Flu epidemic in the early 1900s for clues. The government did not lose control. People became more dependent on the government to enforce quarantines and isolation wards (warehouses filled with sick). You see the government has been building detention camps all over the USA, so maybe they are prepared.

Why do people love to convince themselves that they are okay? Is it because most people can't deal with the painful realities?

You are not okay. You are not prepared. You are a sitting duck waiting to be harvested.

Rights are bullshit. You have no rights.

Your only insurance that you can travel is your preparations to be sure you can travel even without a passport.

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants
.
It is its natural manure."— Thomas Jefferson

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August 04, 2015, 01:23:37 PM
 #40

your not looking at the bigger picture you only care for people with money other wise why say i need to buy land I GOT NO MONEY TO BUY ANY

...

how did USA get its people they give away land for free to farm
how did Australia  get it people they offered free land to farm

The "free"[1] land was useless to those who didn't work 16 hours a day to make sure they survived the first winter, in Australia's case the droughts.

Nature culls those who are not willing to make their best effort.

It is not the responsibility of the minority to solve every problem for the majority.

Each person has to be responsible for his or her own life, otherwise you end up with complete failure of the human race which is exactly the result of all that socialism bullshit you are doing over on your side of the pond. You don't tie your shoelaces to a mountain when you try to walk!

Notwithstanding that rich anarchists would be proud to provide many opportunities for education, commerce, and apprenticeship to the less fortunate who are willing to work hard. But we won't be giving shit to whining lazy ass prima donnas who deserve to perish.

[1] The government didn't pay your transportation, costs of security, etc.. One can argue the land was worthless and the migrants added all the value.

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August 04, 2015, 01:59:56 PM
 #41

betting 100€ that it wont work out

micronations especially one like this will for always be only a dream.

They certainly are a dream in terms of the ways I've seen people attempt them. I haven't seen anyone actually attempt a viable plan. Sealand may be the most successful, except the problem was there was no economic incentive. Who wants to go live on an oil platform  Huh

First and foremost, I think you'd need to be actually interested to plant a residence on the island. And you'd need to be actually interested in carrying a big stick and offering a big carrot at the same time, while dealing with the claiming authorities.

I agree it is unlikely for the authorities to recognize the sovereignty of a nation formed within its own boundaries, because it sets a precedent and TPTB would rush in to make sure such a precedent can't be attained.

Again however, I think there is nothing TPTB could do if for example Pitcairn Island had an democratic referendum with the vote count overwhelmingly favoring a declaration of increased sovereignty. Well actually Pitcairn is already sovereign. There are no taxes even if you travel outside the island, for as long as you remain a resident of Pitcairn. One issue is that the citizenship and passports for Pitcairn are apparently issued by the British Overseas Territories. If Pitcairn declared that it only would decide citizenship per its new constitution and that it would also issue passports as well as allowing the British Overseas Territories to continue to issues passports as well, then not that much has really changed. I don't think Britian has a case to attack Pitcairn for those issues.

It actually seems potentially workable, but again the best interests of the existing citizens of Pitcairn are paramount because they are the current owners of Pitcairn. We can't be talking as if we would violate their property rights and then expect anyone else to respect our principles.

Thus it is a bit complicated to envision reaching our political goal. But not impossible, especially if we had say 10 guys and their families that were really serious about it and wanting to help Pitcairn. Pitcairn needs investment to improve its access to the outside world (otherwise its youth will always leave for New Zealand).

I am undecided on the Pitcairn option. I wouldn't do it alone. I'd need a group interested in giving it a try. We wouldn't necessarily have to go for the stateless persons extreme. We could just go for Pitcairn citizenship and improve the access to the island then we could spend much of our time off the island and just return there to maintain our residency. But in all fairness to what the citizens of Pitcairn want, we would have to invest in being good islanders that give back to the island also in terms of our presence there (they get lonely) and also to plant children there to liven up the place (the ladies there I am sure miss having children around).

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August 04, 2015, 07:06:05 PM
 #42

Why do people love to convince themselves that they are okay? Is it because most people can't deal with the painful realities?

You are not okay. You are not prepared. You are a sitting duck waiting to be harvested.

Rights are bullshit. You have no rights.

Your only insurance that you can travel is your preparations to be sure you can travel even without a passport.


This is where I think you're being foolish.

If, in an ideal world, rights would be a nice thing to have, then why do you feel the need to burst people's bubbles and 'inform' them that they have no rights? Even if you think something is the complete truth, it's still no reason for be motivated to tell it. Motivation is a separate thing. Have you considered that rights "exist" on condition that a collective illusion (of their existence) is maintained?

By saying things like "actually, you have no rights -- check out all these loopholes with which the evil authorities could screw you", you're unwittingly playing into the hands of bad actors, getting people to expect evilness and to feel powerless and oppressed. Much like "bad news" could be clever PR to raise expectations about increased prices, the same applies to PR about "more government mischief on the way".
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August 04, 2015, 07:21:57 PM
 #43

Why suffer trying to 'convince' people, when you could plant ideas that take on a life of their own?

I am only convincing those people who matter, because as Linus Torvalds explained well, "most people are morons" and thus they can never understand.

popcorn1 is apparently a prime example because he can't seem to comprehend that rewarding habitual, willful failure is a human eugenics (potentially extinction) paradigm, due to the resiliency that is only attainable with Taleb's Anti-fragility, i.e. not overcommitting to egregious error which all collectives/politics inherently do.

And actually I am not trying to convince in this thread. I am just gathering a poll and feedback on how many people rationalize similarly to myself. Also to brainstorm potential solutions and dismiss non-solutions and impractical ideas.

It is also serves to be an "in your face" middle finger to socialist pigs. I get a kick out of that, but I wouldn't start a thread just to annoy socialists. I need to have some real work achievement goal in mind. This thread is gathering data. Everyone who contributes to the thread is appreciated (popcorn1 included), despite diametrical philosophical and political views expressed.


The political strategy is to make politics (collectivized resource appropriation) less relevant so people are more in tune with what benefits them, i.e. Welcome to the Knowledge Age.

Some people refer to this transformation as an Inverse Commons:

http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/magic-cauldron/magic-cauldron-5.html

Somewhere in the following video Linus explains for example how the technology of decentralized version control eliminates the politics over whom gets commit rights:

https://youtu.be/4XpnKHJAok8?t=488 (haha)

https://youtu.be/4XpnKHJAok8?t=1114 ("most people are morons")  <------ Edit: this one and the next one apply to my point

https://youtu.be/4XpnKHJAok8?t=1648 ("most of you are incompetent", "there are some few who are outstanding", "hey that person is smarter than I am")

Again increases in degrees-of-freedom doesn't have to be selfish even if it is physical. For example, if remove that obstacle that makes us all walk further than we need to.

You don't need to change the will of all the people, just the people who matter economically.

I figure those people who don't want to prioritize working with me already fail that test., lol  Tongue

No the real problem is providing a way for the people who want to productive to separate themselves from those who want to perish.

Convincing people to change is a waste of time.

Individual responsibility is only motivated by not providing a nanny state.
you need to take a chill pill it will send you crazy looking to deep into things
 i know your trying to do good but your not your not looking at the bigger picture
if money is what makes everyone life better then no matter what you believe in money will be the power
so because money is the power there will be more poor than rich
plus you keep saying productive not everyone can get a job so do you think everyone wants to sit on there backside and do nothing..just some places no jobs

plus PERISH its you that is perishing your own brain with all the mad shit you read
 the type of life you want is more like a quaker so go live with them plenty of quakers to go live with Grin
anyone can be rich you just need to use your brain
just most people want to live for the now

an idian man comes to the uk he gets a job for 250 cleaning dishes he pays 50 pounds rent because he sleeps in a room shared with 5 others..he then feeds him self on boiled rice and noodles for 2 years
so spends 30 pounds on food so is weekly out lay is 80 pounds..
now we british born think sod that i am not living like that
but to this indian he thinks this is easy living this back home i had to work 8 hours a day just to feed myself..
so anyway the indian saves his 150 pounds a week for 2 years which comes to 15 thousand pounds after 2 years..
then he goes and rents a shop out with his 15 grand he does the same as before sleeps on shop floor eats noodles for 2 years then saves 100k then by the time 10 years as gone by this guy now owns a factory making millions Wink Wink
but most people will never do this so do you see anyone can get rich if you put your mind to it
so its a good job we live in a democracy  Wink Wink
plus just think when robots come out more jobs gone

i know you mean well but if money is what makes peoples lives better then no one is truely free..
your enslaved to get money so no matter what you believe it will all boil down to one thing money
and as you keep saying people without money are useless
so if i am handicapped or ill i am worthless  Cry Cry

ANYWAY I GOT TO STOP OR I WILL END UP LIKE YOU PARANOID  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
do me a big favour for 1 month stop reading to much into government shit because you will send your self cookoo
we all know government does shady shit to its own people but you just need to do what the indian man done and then you can become free because your rich Wink Wink
but not many people in the western world would live like this we just want to party now fuck tomorrow
so this is why where seeing in the uk more millionaires from other countries becoming rich as time goes by
this is why uk are trying to stop benefits for young people  Wink Wink

this is you
www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKwk1ko6ceQ
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August 04, 2015, 09:42:02 PM
 #44

so do you see anyone can get rich if you put your mind to it
so its a good job we live in a democracy

The owners of this world have a plan for the future of the world where small businesses don't exist and you work as a slave for them. This is what will happen to people who think they have rights and do not take matters into their own hands in the coming Knowledge Age.

Democracy is a fucking lie for retards and or cowards.

P.S. username18333, yes democracy is a plutocracy and usury is symbiotic with the Industrial Age economics. Both are what I believe will be eliminated by the Knowledge Age, as I have already explained ad nauseum in this thread and in the Economics Devastation thread. This thread is supposed to be about practical solutions to the coming totalitarianism...

macsga, indeed my theory as to why MA doesn't believe in the existence of TPTB is because he is only motivated by data and what he can model. He has often reiterated that opinion is bullshit. So he sees that such conspiracy isn't necessary to describe the system. My counter argument is that he can't fully understand without incorporating that conspiracy into the model, which is why I believe he doesn't grasp the importance of bottom-up (grassroots) exploration of new frontiers, e.g. geographical escapes of lore and perhaps crypto in this current technological unemployment shift to post-industrial, non-fixed capital age (which of course threatens the interests of the old world capitalists who run the current industrial world).

1. Having the "blessed" opportunity to live in a country that has been devastated by TPTB the last 5 years, I can assure you, when something is so carefully designed and/or a long line of random events looks like a "conspiracy theory", it usually is. I've often been in front of Greek government officials the last 5 years that were mumbling about "conspiracy theories" when they had to cover up a dirty work of theirs. It's the "reverse psychology" trick that you deny the obvious because it's too obvious to accept it.

Also there is often this argument that a conspiracy can't hide in plain sight and it can't remain unified. Well it is visible for anyone who researches and unification for cartelization is a fact. So I am dismayed to see someone such as Eric Raymond (progenitor of the term "open source") who claims a 150-160 IQ using such excuses. Yet I also agree to some extent with Eric, that the vested interests are symptom of a systemic effect of the Logic of Collective Action and thus the term "prospiracy" is apropos.

2. Don't get smart people wrong because of their disability to acknowledge something that it's conspicuous to you.

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August 04, 2015, 10:25:26 PM
 #45


No, this is me:

I appreciate his ability to speak frankly and have clear thinking on the generative essence of an issue. For example:

http://www.ted.com/talks/steve_jobs_how_to_live_before_you_die

Edit: Perhaps I am a collage of Jobs with an education from Superman.

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August 04, 2015, 10:29:31 PM
 #46

By saying things like "actually, you have no rights -- check out all these loopholes with which the evil authorities could screw you", you're unwittingly playing into the hands of bad actors, getting people to expect evilness and to feel powerless and oppressed. Much like "bad news" could be clever PR to raise expectations about increased prices, the same applies to PR about "more government mischief on the way".

The look the other way and hope it won't happen to me delusion. We've been there and done that megadeath over and over in history.

Quote
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion...

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants
..."— Thomas Jefferson

It is better to stand up and fight losing a some patriots along the way, than cower and be steamrolled en masse with bulldozers into gas chambers and open pits.




For your owners, you are only a useless eater cow to be harvested.

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August 04, 2015, 11:20:54 PM
 #47

The owners of this world have a plan for the future of the world where small businesses don't exist and you work as a slave for them. This is what will happen to people who think they have rights and do not take matters into their own hands in the coming Knowledge Age.

Democracy is a fucking lie for retards and or cowards.

these are your words above

your the retard ITS THE NWO we are the power
i will send the men in black Cool after you
 your life is being watched we will own the world your every move will be watched
 you are a potential threat to our thinking you must be sent to jail you are danger to our way of life
WE OWN YOU BITCH
now say sorry and i will pardon you

its ok its only me you can come from behind the couch i was only joking  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
where do you live tell me to see if your country is bad

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August 04, 2015, 11:23:01 PM
 #48


No, this is me:

I appreciate his ability to speak frankly and have clear thinking on the generative essence of an issue. For example:

http://www.ted.com/talks/steve_jobs_how_to_live_before_you_die

Edit: Perhaps I am a collage of Jobs with an education from Superman.
OH come on steve jobs got lucky his friend was the thinker and brought him on board
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August 04, 2015, 11:25:42 PM
 #49

OH come on steve jobs got lucky his friend was the thinker and brought him on board

You are clueless and blind. Steve Wozniak is a mid-level geek, nothing spectacular (great engineer, but not a world changing personality). Jobs had all the vision. He massaged Woz to get what he needed out of him in terms of engineering.

That you think the world is unfair and undeserving people get enormous wealth because they are lucky and that all real value is created by the underlings who slave away, is indicative of why you demand socialism to steal for you.

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August 04, 2015, 11:36:07 PM
 #50

these are your words above

Yes they are. And it will be clear for those who are astute, that you and your cohort blahblabla deserve your collective fate.

Thanks for helping to prove my point that we couldn't save the majority. You are indeed useless eater blobs of flesh. Cows for harvesting.

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August 05, 2015, 12:36:39 AM
 #51

these are your words above

Yes they are. And it will be clear for those who are astute, that you and your cohort blahblabla deserve your collective fate.

Thanks for helping to prove my point that we couldn't save the majority. You are indeed useless eater blobs of flesh. Cows.
so what have you done for mankind that is so good that makes you so special
 
plus its only you that needs to worry because your an anarchist.. its you going in the gas chambers Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
stop wasting your life away being a NUT JOB its the NWO its here Wink Wink
 life was much worse 100 years ago
now we got double glazing windows in our council houses Grin Grin
plus i could not care less who thinks what about me as long as my children love me and my wife does then i am on top of the world

the earth as programmed all living things
ONLY THE STRONGEST SURVIVE so deal with it and move on or your life will become 1 big conspiracy
 
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August 05, 2015, 12:42:21 AM
 #52

so what have you done for mankind that is so good that makes you so special

That is irrelevant. The only reason you could possibly need this information is so you can measure what you think I owe or deserve, as if what I deserve should be judged by you. The only person I need to answer that question to is myself. I receive what I have earned in life and it is none of your business.


ONLY THE STRONGEST SURVIVE so deal with it

Correct (although "strong" should be construed in terms of the value of diversity, entropy, and degrees-of-freedom).

Our disagreement is I don't want to allow you to make me perish with your preference of stealing from the collective.

Btw, the technology that has improved your standard-of-living came from people who were motivated to accomplish goals, i.e. being capable of producing enough for themselves (in trade with others) and not promoting a collective theft society which feeds the sociopathic 0.001%.

I take issue with MA's repetitive insistence "we are all in this together".

If I tie my shoelaces to a mountain, who can achieve anything  Huh

Armstrong sees from his cyclical models that the masses must perish in megadeath every 80 years or so. So why can't he acknowledge that is natural and that is the upswelling of innovation from the few that propels humanity forward  Huh

All those cows in Greece and the EU who believe in the EU dream, unfortunately deserve exactly what is happening to them. It is entirely natural. Those who are offended by my words, as if I could even change what is natural  Huh

Bottom line is if you trust your life to the herd, then you benefit while the lamb is fattened, and then you die when the lamb is harvested. Rather if you trust your life to your individual endeavors, then you suffer from your own failures and profit from your own achievements. Of course trading with others to benefit from the collective, serendipitous, chaotic, accretive advance of knowledge (technology).

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August 05, 2015, 01:38:40 AM
 #53

popcorn1, maybe it seems like I am a callous person. Rather it is incredulous to me that you would demand that someone who is suffering from Multiple Sclerosis and who has never taken a dime in aid from health insurance, should somehow be responsible for you being too fucking lazy to work hard and build your own life.

That is why I say, "fuck you"!

Do you have any idea what I am suffering? But do I put that burden on you?

You are the callous, communist, coward thief hiding behind the charade of equality and social justice.

P.S. Okay so been awake about 4 hours and the M.S. is starting to flare up. Gut is aching, head is going into a fog, will probably have to take sleep (or take a lot of Vitamin D3). This is the shit that is making me so damn frustrated!  Angry Grrrrr!  Angry  Angry

Edit: my major difficulty is the M.S.. When I feel strong such as this morning, I could conquer the world as I have in the past for example creating CoolPage. I was expressing frustration about wasting precious effort on recruiting others, because the M.S. robs me of some of the excess energy and dopamine that I had before the M.S.. I have had very high dopamine levels most of my life. I could essentially sustain an elevated but tiger concentration for 12 hours, sleep a bit, and do it again. The M.S. interferes and instead I ride more of a rollercoaster and so often feeling like I am exhausted.

...

Btw, I was nearly blind on the way to the gym yesterday. My eyes were tearing so much, everything was so blurry that I couldn't even make out people's faces when they were within 10 meters, and the sun was burning my eyes. This is some effect from the M.S. coupled with never seeing the daylight due to always being on the computer. After the gym workout my eyes felt much better.

Before I had M.S., I used to feel so very energized and floating on a cloud after my intense sports and exercise. With M.S., I feel like shit after such as itchiness all over my body, pains or itchiness (always varies minute to minute) on my head, numb legs, etc.. Everyday for me is not a picnic. It is a struggle. I don't get to smile as much any more. I was always known as being so jolly (except when I turn on my tiger in sports or any form of competition such as work and study time).

When I lost vision in my right eye, I asked all my friends and relatives to try walking around for a few hours with a patch on their right eye. Everyone refused. They tried to put their hand over their eye and immediately removed it. They hated it. No one really wants to know what another person feels.


It is impossible for someone who doesn't have Multiple Sclerosis to understand what it feels like.

Imagine when you had really bad stomach pains, now imagine having that every day during some hours of the day.

Imagine when you had a stuffed up head from a head cold and really hated life, now imagine having that every day during some hours of the day.

Imagine when you over exerted yourself on a very hot day and you got heat stroke. Now imagine having that every day during some hours of the day.

Etc. It is a serious illness that causes a myriad of disseminated malfunctions all over the body. These malfunctions feel like crap. They aren't just painless or free of feelings of malaise.

Men can handle short intense pain. We were built for that. But enduring day after day after year after year after year...that is a different sort of struggle and challenge.

As I said, sometimes I think it is less worse than it was. Maybe I am just the eternal optimist who doesn't want to give up. I dunno.

Any way back to work. I am just rambling...

I am not eating any carbs at all. I just ate pork and spinach for dinner. Didn't even eat any sweet potato.

M.S. is a grinding shit. Sometimes I feel if I could just get rid of this body, I could be happy again. But then when I drive to the basket and fly in the air one more time, I don't want to give up this body just yet. My gf says I out boxed the heavy bag this afternoon as compared to some other very athletic 20-somethings in the gym today. I let her hold the heavy bag once and I hit it and she flew to the ground and she will never hold the bag again, lol.

Working night and day (literally) is probably exhausting (but it used to be exhilarating before I contracted M.S. and still is exciting sometimes ... well often but I always have the M.S. lurking and disrupting the sense of good feelings).

...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_sclerosis

Multiple sclerosis (MS), also known as disseminated sclerosis or encephalomyelitis disseminata, is a demyelinating disease in which the insulating covers of nerve cells in the brain and spinal cord are damaged. This damage disrupts the ability of parts of the nervous system to communicate, resulting in a wide range of signs and symptoms,[1][2] including physical, mental,[2] and sometimes psychiatric problems.[3] MS takes several forms, with new symptoms either occurring in isolated attacks (relapsing forms) or building up over time (progressive forms).[4] Between attacks, symptoms may disappear completely; however, permanent neurological problems often occur, especially as the disease advances.[4]

While the cause is not clear, the underlying mechanism is thought to be either destruction by the immune system or failure of the myelin-producing cells.[5] Proposed causes for this include genetics and environmental factors such as infections.[2][6] MS is usually diagnosed based on the presenting signs and symptoms and the results of supporting medical tests.

Although most people lose the ability to walk before death, 90% are capable of independent walking at 10 years from onset, and 75% at 15 years.

A person with MS can have almost any neurological symptom or sign; with autonomic, visual, motor, and sensory problems being the most common.[1] The specific symptoms are determined by the locations of the lesions within the nervous system, and may include loss of sensitivity or changes in sensation such as tingling, pins and needles or numbness, muscle weakness, very pronounced reflexes, muscle spasms, or difficulty in moving; difficulties with coordination and balance (ataxia); problems with speech or swallowing, visual problems (nystagmus, optic neuritis or double vision), feeling tired, acute or chronic pain, and bladder and bowel difficulties, among others.[1] Difficulties thinking and emotional problems such as depression or unstable mood are also common.

There is no known cure for multiple sclerosis.

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August 05, 2015, 02:09:04 AM
 #54

Why The Deep State Always Wins: The Zero-Sum Game of Perpetual War

http://cryptome.org/2014/08/deep-state-wins.pdf

1/ IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
2/ WAR IS PEACE
3/ SLAVERY IS FREEDOM

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“Like it or lump it, we’ll do what we like. So just get used to it, world.”

And note Michael Ruppert recently shot himself in the head too just like my only sibling sister did in 2006 (yet why didn't the police observe that she couldn't have possibly held the gun at that angle and pulled the trigger)  Roll Eyes

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August 05, 2015, 02:31:17 AM
 #55

If cornered by Satan, I'd lock and load and say my final words, "you can take my cold dead body, but you will never own my soul". Now here's some hot metal coming your way bitch. I'd probably charge so as to take as many rounds as possible.

Pussies.

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August 05, 2015, 02:48:29 AM
 #56

popcorn1, maybe it seems like I am a callous person. Rather it is incredulous to me that you would demand that someone who is suffering from Multiple Sclerosis and who has never taken a dime in aid from health insurance, should somehow be responsible for you being too fucking lazy to work hard and build your own life.

That is why I say, "fuck you"!

Do you have any idea what I am suffering? But do I put that burden on you?

You are the callous, communist, coward thief hiding behind the charade of equality and social justice.

point 1 i am not a communist i am socialist a capitalist and a communist all 3
point 2 i am not lazy
point 3 what work do you do that makes you look down on the weak poor
was your mum and dad good to you if yes
what about the kids whos mums and dads where ass holes
trust me i know everything about life the ups and downs so because i have suffered in my life i am more helpful than you could ever be
i know you say you suffer from  Multiple Sclerosis sorry to here that Cry Cry
PUT YOUR BODY AGAINST YOUR SCREEN AND I GIVE YOU A INTERNET HUG Grin
plus if you feel the need to use your med insurance  why not use it there fast enough taking your money to pay for med bills
all med care should be free to all humans and animals  Wink
there trying to get rid of the NHS here in uk but we will never let that happen NEVER
 YOUR LIKE HITLER
EAT SOME WEED AND CALM DOWN IT WILL HELP YOUR PAIN
because you suffer with an illness and do well still gives you no write to look down on the poor
i do respect you for getting on with your life despite your illness but some people do fall on hard times threw no fault of there own
so have a bit more hart for the poor and it will set you free Wink Wink
plus recycle always recycle as much as you can Wink Wink


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August 05, 2015, 02:52:01 AM
 #57

popcorn1, I've been more poor than you. I wrote software from a Nipa Hut and ate rice and beans. Go feel sorry for yourself.

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August 05, 2015, 02:52:25 AM
 #58

sorry you have had a worse life than me Cheesy Cheesy
 too just like my only sibling sister did in 2006 (yet why didn't the police observe that she couldn't have possibly held the gun at that angle and pulled the trigger)  Roll Eyes

fuck me no wonder your angry Cheesy



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August 05, 2015, 02:56:04 AM
 #59

Meanwhile, my filipina gf asks me for 500 pesos ($11) to pay for her younger sister's "1st grading" in the public high school in Pagadian.

I pointed out that education is by law free in the Philippines:

http://www.lawphil.net/statutes/repacts/ra1988/ra_6655_1988.html

The local DECS official and the school principle and teachers have apparently conspired on this corrupt lie to the ignorant masses. It is not worth us fighting it, because then my gf might get blacklisted from obtaining the documents she needs from her high school in order to qualify for a passport.

They got you by the balls. Sticking the red, white, and blue dick up your asshole every day.

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August 05, 2015, 02:56:37 AM
 #60

popcorn1, I've been more poor than you. I wrote software from a Nipa Hut and ate rice and beans. Go feel sorry for yourself.
so are you like that poor indian man i was talking about but computers
if so any chance you can lend us 10 pounds Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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August 05, 2015, 03:13:27 AM
 #61

Meanwhile, my filipina gf asks me for 500 pesos ($11) to pay for her younger sister's "1st grading" in the public high school in Pagadian.

I pointed out that education is by law free in the Philippines:

http://www.lawphil.net/statutes/repacts/ra1988/ra_6655_1988.html

The local DECS official and the school principle and teachers have apparently conspired on this corrupt lie to the ignorant masses. It is not worth us fighting it, because then my gf might get blacklisted from obtaining the documents she needs from her high school in order to qualify for a passport.

They got you by the balls. Sticking the red, white, and blue dick up your asshole every day.
Philippines wow my great grandad was full phillippines
we used to get free milk free uniform all gone now.. soon they be taking free dinners to soon
plus kids got to pay for uni nothing is becoming free
so your getting your wish lazy people will suffer fact
i am not worried never been lazy i work for nothing i go the gym so not afraid of hard work
any ways going to sleep now i think you should get some to Wink
good night well morning here but peace bro
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August 05, 2015, 02:26:08 PM
 #62

By saying things like "actually, you have no rights -- check out all these loopholes with which the evil authorities could screw you", you're unwittingly playing into the hands of bad actors, getting people to expect evilness and to feel powerless and oppressed. Much like "bad news" could be clever PR to raise expectations about increased prices, the same applies to PR about "more government mischief on the way".

The look the other way and hope it won't happen to me delusion. We've been there and done that megadeath over and over in history.

Quote
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

You're confusing  at least 3 different things:
-ignorance of a real problem
-procrastination and inaction when faced with an acknowledged problem
-the questionable "reality" of a problem

I can't force you to see the part you're playing if you've got your eyes screwed shut.
Guess what. By "warning" people about the war machine, you're actually building it up and oiling its wheels in a positive feedback loop.
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August 05, 2015, 02:34:43 PM
 #63

Citizenship in the sovereign State of ________ (hereafter referred to as the State)
Hell to the no. Individual sovereignty and the non-aggression principle are all I need for a decent world, thank you very much.

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
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August 07, 2015, 11:47:53 PM
 #64

I don't believe in anarchistic anything. To believe that such a system would work you have to believe that individuals are inherently good. I believe that in general individuals gravitate towards being inherently bad

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August 08, 2015, 12:08:57 AM
 #65

I don't believe in anarchistic anything. To believe that such a system would work you have to believe that individuals are inherently good. I believe that in general individuals gravitate towards being inherently bad
Wrong and willfully ignorant.

Human nature is trusting, open, generous, curious, compassionate, and kind. Study Bonobo Chimpanzees for reference.

By contrast, most of human culture is myth-rooted, unscientific, deceptive, ignorant, fearful, hateful, and self-and-other-destructive. Why is that? Culture is ancient, it's been around for tens of thousands of years - most of that time dominated by violence - while modern reason is a relative infant at only around 400 years old.

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/03/28/science/researchers-trace-empathy-s-roots-to-infancy.html

http://www.apa.org/monitor/oct05/mirror.aspx

https://www.dnalc.org/view/852-Mirror-Neurons-and-Empathy.html

http://news.emory.edu/stories/2014/03/chimpanzees_and_empathy/campus.html

http://cultureofempathy.com/references/Experts/Frans-de-Waal.htm

http://www.democracyjournal.org/16/6740.php?page=all

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
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August 08, 2015, 09:22:47 PM
 #66

Human nature is trusting, open, generous, curious, compassionate, and kind. Study Bonobo Chimpanzees for reference.

By contrast, most of human culture is myth-rooted, unscientific, deceptive, ignorant, fearful, hateful, and self-and-other-destructive. Why is that? Culture is ancient, it's been around for tens of thousands of years - most of that time dominated by violence - while modern reason is a relative infant at only around 400 years old.


From what did that “violence” (Beliathon) originate (if not from “[h]uman nature” [Beliathon])—?  Shocked

Quote from: Jonathan Webb, BBC News, 2014 link=http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-29237276
These parameters link the violence to natural selection: killing competitors improves a male chimp's access to resources like food and territory - and crucially, it will happen more frequently when there is greater competition from neighbouring groups, and when the males can patrol in large numbers, with less risk to their own survival.


Chimpanzees and bonobos are our closest living evolutionary relatives

"It's a natural behaviour - it's not something that we've induced by disturbance or intervention," explained Dr Susanne Shultz, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Manchester.

Where there is heterarchy, there is reason. Where there is hierarchy, there is treason.

Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
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August 08, 2015, 09:29:31 PM
 #67

I don't believe in anarchistic anything. To believe that such a system would work you have to believe that individuals are inherently good. I believe that in general individuals gravitate towards being inherently bad
Wrong and willfully ignorant.

Human nature is trusting, open, generous, curious, compassionate, and kind. Study Bonobo Chimpanzees for reference.

By contrast, most of human culture is myth-rooted, unscientific, deceptive, ignorant, fearful, hateful, and self-and-other-destructive. Why is that? Culture is ancient, it's been around for tens of thousands of years - most of that time dominated by violence - while modern reason is a relative infant at only around 400 years old.

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/03/28/science/researchers-trace-empathy-s-roots-to-infancy.html

http://www.apa.org/monitor/oct05/mirror.aspx

https://www.dnalc.org/view/852-Mirror-Neurons-and-Empathy.html

http://news.emory.edu/stories/2014/03/chimpanzees_and_empathy/campus.html

http://cultureofempathy.com/references/Experts/Frans-de-Waal.htm

http://www.democracyjournal.org/16/6740.php?page=all
I don't believe in anarchistic anything. To believe that such a system would work you have to believe that individuals are inherently good. I believe that in general individuals gravitate towards being inherently bad
Wrong and willfully ignorant.

Human nature is trusting, open, generous, curious, compassionate, and kind. Study Bonobo Chimpanzees for reference.

your wrong too because starve a human and see how nice we are then
humans are nice if well fed
we are the same as any animal just we go to the shop for our food
 if a lion could walk in any food shop and get food it would stop hunting in time because much easier to go to the shop



 the less food around the worse we become .FACT
same if you got no money because it buys you food
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August 09, 2015, 04:09:46 PM
 #68

I am bothered by second guessing myself about whether I am rational about the severity of the coming problems in the world.

For example the recent discussion between trollercoaster and myself, wherein it is about him pulling up roots from a very first-class lifestyle country (Australia) with contemplation of exchanging it for a lower lifestyle country and lower standard-of-living (although I will say I love the simple life, so a farm isn't necessarily lower standard-of-living from my perspective).

Will the world really get so totalitarian that it is necessary to make such radical changes to our lives?

One would tend to think that society will get pushed to a certain point and then society will change or demand adjustments because people all over the world don't want to live in some sort of totalitarian hell.

Yet we have examples from history where society went F.U.B.A.R.. For example WW1 and then later WW2 were essentially due to the European socialism that resulted trying to resist the technological unemployment of the Second Industrial Revolution (mass production and the end of cottage industry).

Sound familiar?

We are repeating the same. Europe is resisting the technological unemployment of the Second Computer Revolution (aka internet and Knowledge Age) by increasing socialism to sustain old engrained patterns (of the baby boomers).

Nature cleans out the old to make way for the new, and when the old refuses to adjust nature cleans it out with the necessary force.

Unfortunately boomers and socialists will not change. They'd rather die than give up their humanistic ideas. They firmly believe theirs was the righteous.

Ideological fanaticism is what drives horrific outcomes. We have that in spades at this juncture...


Edit: on the way up the debt mountain, everyone goes out of their way to relieve hardship and the brutal realities of nature. On the way down the debt cliff, it is a free fall into the brutality of nature. Communities which didn't eat the poison and remained self-reliant pull together. Communities that ate the poison spin apart into brutal chaos. Communities of tough love remain functional and compassionate. Communities of free love diverge into dysfunction and brutality.

Quote from: anonymous from PM
You were asking why Europeans support socialism and feminism... It is because they are humanists; feminism can be thought of as the culmination of humanist thought...

Karl Marx's own definition of Humanism reads:
"Humanism is the denial of God, and the total affirmation of man... Humanism is really nothing else but Marxism"
--Karl Marx, ECONOMIC POLITIQUE ET PHILOSOPHIE, VOL. I, PAGES 38-40.

Anyway, I'm sure many other Europeans will explain the general zeitgeist here too.

Let's do a Steve Jobs and be brutally frank.

Apparently feminism = hedonism.

I've noticed how much Westerners are getting a thrill from teaching two women to eat each other's pussies.

I think Nordic Europeans support feminism because it enables them to justify fucking non-virgins and then the hedonistic dominoes from there.

It also frees the men from the obligation to raise children, if they can convince the women they are more powerful if they don't bear children.

I've noticed here in the Philippines, the females are vehemently anti-abortion and anti-birth control. It is very, very difficult to get them to take birth control pills and they are not that happy about using a condom. These are real women who want to have the real happiness of bearing children and raising a family. My own mother criticizes me when I don't force the women I am involved with to use birth control pills!

Europe has entered decadent Frankenstein mode and the USA is following close behind.

I am not trying to be a moral dogmatic oppressor here. I know any of us can be influenced as we are human, but the thing is that once a man prefers to get happiness more from hedonism than from family, then the culture is broken. The society will collapse into an abyss.

And this is precisely what is happening to Europe.

How does a mother who has become bisexual raise her daughter and son  Huh (not my mother)

Sorry I am fairly open minded person and I've explored many things in life, but I can tell you there is a major difference between the gf I have now and some of the Western women. My gf values dogs, children, family. She could easily be a hedonistic queen given her D breasts and very attractive face (not to mention brown skin), but she is humble and wants the things that really make happiness.

Those Europeans who support feminism are insatiable. They want to steal and have everything. They don't want any natural limits on society. They want that man is superior to nature. Why should a woman be limited to sex with only a man or a human? She can fuck a pet monkey and that is more freedom. Why must she bear children. It is better we educate the women to fuck more people, sexes, and things and have more freedom! It isn't enough for her to undress and fondle herself on a webcam, instead the men want her to pee and insert objects into every orifice.

And that is why they've run their debt sky high. And they can not change their system. They are addicted.


Regarding the Trump discussion (and resurgence in Republicans in general), I have concluded the winner will be...

...the military-industrial complex.

Right on time with MA's War Cycle, which expects war and pandemic to start going hot in 2017 and really accelerating into 2018.

We'll get the increased military spending. The reduced taxes won't matter because the world is going to be so fucked by the rising interest rates and War Cycle, that no one will be able to avail of the opportunities to start businesses in the tangible industrial age economy.

The Knowledge Age doesn't give a shit about the taxes any way, since they will be 0 for the anonymous internet coming.

A global smashup ahead. Trump card doesn't change anything and if anything this lurch back to the hard right politics accelerates it.

Now we see why the USA must break apart into regions as MA predicts. It is because the morass can not be changed from WA D.C. After 2017, the Americans will start to realize they have to take matters into their own hands.

The Feds will fight the militias. The country will break into parts. The world will be a much different place.

Crazy world we are heading into. Be prepared accordingly.

Edit: Rand Paul alludes to Trump being beholden to special interests. That Trump is loudly declaring that he isn't, is probably telling us that he is. Of course he knows he can't win without playing ball with powerful interests. He openly admits the realities of leverage. Trump is obviously willing to appease the NSA and military-complex in order to go after hard-nosed trade deals. He will appear to be a populist but is a wolf in sheepskin.

Trump represents a rise of fascist-capitalism in the USA. He is not talking about printing money the way the German socialists did, but instead it will be a hard lurch towards a brutal economic default coupled with military imperialism fully bankrupting Rome. As with Rome, the barbarians will later be at the gates of Rome and overrun it.

In fact, we need free trade and free markets. Rising protectionism is what lead to WW2. Trump is a very bad result for us.

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August 09, 2015, 04:23:10 PM
 #69

Citizenship in the sovereign State of ________ (hereafter referred to as the State)
Hell to the no. Individual sovereignty and the non-aggression principle are all I need for a decent world, thank you very much.

Indeed per the linked video, the State is going to collapse into a NWO eugenics hell. I have written extensively about this.

So what is your plan to avoid being persecuted as the totalitarianism tries to retain control and attempt to drag everyone down with it using extreme violence?

Will you just allow them to kill you?

Non-defense is not always a solution to aggression.

Hitler rolled over pacifists like a hot knife through butter.

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August 09, 2015, 04:28:09 PM
 #70

I don't believe in anarchistic anything. To believe that such a system would work you have to believe that individuals are inherently good. I believe that in general individuals gravitate towards being inherently bad
Wrong and willfully ignorant.

Human nature is trusting, open, generous, curious, compassionate, and kind. Study Bonobo Chimpanzees for reference.

By contrast, most of human culture is myth-rooted, unscientific, deceptive, ignorant, fearful, hateful, and self-and-other-destructive. Why is that? Culture is ancient, it's been around for tens of thousands of years - most of that time dominated by violence - while modern reason is a relative infant at only around 400 years old.

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/03/28/science/researchers-trace-empathy-s-roots-to-infancy.html

...

Your conceptualization of the issue is low IQ.

It is the power vacuum of organization that forces a power to fill it.

I suggest you read Eric Raymond, a man with a 150 - 160 IQ explain the issue of the Logic of Collective Action:

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=984

Our hope now is for decentralization technologies to enable man to organize without the existance of a power vacuum. All my work in crypto is about his. This is why an anonymous internet and money is a movement and not just a fascination.

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August 09, 2015, 04:34:31 PM
 #71

I don't believe in anarchistic anything. To believe that such a system would work you have to believe that individuals are inherently good. I believe that in general individuals gravitate towards being inherently bad

Individuals can't do that much bad against a society where citizens can carry guns.

Rather it is the collective organization of individuals that empowers the State to have the might to enact horrific megadeath.

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August 09, 2015, 05:48:58 PM
 #72

http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/35782

Quote
Rand Paul, on the other hand, showed he could not stand up to Christie. He revealed a lack of passion and commitment and that showed he was not really a leader. Very disappointing.

Paul got straight to the point that is not necessary to violate everyone's privacy in a false strawman that it aids fighting terrorism. He got thunderous applause.

But what we really see is that the American public would much prefer a guy who can top-down manage the world, than a modest guy who wants free markets.

And so the Americans may get their Trump card, who wants to empower the military-industrial complex more.

What this shows is that there is no solution that can come from voting for a government. The only solution is taking matters into our own individual hands. For that, we MUST have anonymity technology else we are doomed to the whims of the collective.

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August 09, 2015, 07:13:56 PM
 #73

Citizenship in the sovereign State of ________ (hereafter referred to as the State)
Hell to the no. Individual sovereignty and the non-aggression principle are all I need for a decent world, thank you very much.

That is what all the Chinese People "Need" but won't get =D
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August 09, 2015, 11:32:44 PM
 #74

Citizenship in the sovereign State of ________ (hereafter referred to as the State)
Hell to the no. Individual sovereignty and the non-aggression principle are all I need for a decent world, thank you very much.

Indeed per the linked video, the State is going to collapse into a NWO eugenics hell. I have written extensively about this.

So what is your plan to avoid being persecuted as the totalitarianism tries to retain control and attempt to drag everyone down with it using extreme violence?

Will you just allow them to kill you?

Non-defense is not always a solution to aggression.

Hitler rolled over pacifists like a hot knife through butter.
The non-aggression principal has little in common with pacifism.
The NAP simply recognizes that no one has the moral right to initiate force upon any individual and there are no exceptions for groups of individuals or any organization calling itself the govt.
Self defense is not at all incompatible with the NAP.
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August 10, 2015, 01:45:21 PM
 #75

From what did that “violence” (Beliathon) originate (if not from “[h]uman nature” [Beliathon])—?  Shocked
Ignorance (including all superstition) -> Fear -> Hatred -> violence

Quote
So what is your plan to avoid being persecuted as the totalitarianism tries to retain control and attempt to drag everyone down with it using extreme violence?
Flee the totalitarian nation as first response, suicide as plan B, duh. Didn't you study Nazi Germany in school? Flee while you can, painless death if you can't.

The non-aggression principal has little in common with pacifism.
The NAP simply recognizes that no one has the moral right to initiate force upon any individual and there are no exceptions for groups of individuals or any organization calling itself the govt.
Self defense is not at all incompatible with the NAP.
This is accurate.

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
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August 10, 2015, 01:51:50 PM
 #76

When do we start?  Grin Grin Grin

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username18333
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Knowledge could but approximate existence.


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August 10, 2015, 08:38:14 PM
 #77

From what did that “violence” (Beliathon) originate (if not from “[h]uman nature” [Beliathon])—?  Shocked
Ignorance (including all superstition) -> Fear -> Hatred -> violence


(For reason of your confirmation bias, you seem to have overlooked the majority of that post—which I quote now below.)

Quote from: Jonathan Webb, BBC News, 2014 link=http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-29237276
These parameters link the violence to natural selection: killing competitors improves a male chimp's access to resources like food and territory - and crucially, it will happen more frequently when there is greater competition from neighbouring groups, and when the males can patrol in large numbers, with less risk to their own survival.


Chimpanzees and bonobos are our closest living evolutionary relatives

"It's a natural behaviour - it's not something that we've induced by disturbance or intervention," explained Dr Susanne Shultz, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Manchester.

Where there is heterarchy, there is reason. Where there is hierarchy, there is treason.

Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
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August 15, 2015, 04:48:29 AM
 #78

I use bitcoin because I want to earn anonymously online. It's also a good investment and I like low transaction fees of bitcoin

I love you because I am formerly AnonyMint and since 2013 my goal has been to add more anonymity to cryptoland. Thanks for validating my thesis about a coming glorious, anonymous Knowledge Age.

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October 29, 2015, 01:06:05 AM
 #79

Each year, the Royal Geographical Society organises, in association with BBC Radio 4, a contest to discover the most imaginative and exciting dream travel project. Rhiannon Adam is this year's winner and her goal was to visit one of the world's smallest countries, Pitcairn Island.

Rhiannon grew up on sailing boat in the Atlantic reading romantic stories about The Mutiny of the Bounty and Pitcairn Island as final resting place for the renegade mutineers. She wondered about this far flung piece of the former British Empire and, as a wandering Brit, whether she might have something in common with the descendants of the mutineers.

The tiny, remote British territory of Pitcairn lies in the Pacific between Chile and and New Zealand. It is home to about fifty people and its remoteness has raised questions about its future as it needs to attract more settlers in order to survive. The romantic image of the island was challenged a decade ago when a number of men on the island were imprisoned for sexual abuse of young girls.

In this very personal account, photographer Rhiannon Adam explores the romance and reality of Pitcairn Island on her 'Journey of a Lifetime'.


An mp3 of the 30 minute programme can be downloaded here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06j144b



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October 29, 2015, 02:27:05 AM
 #80

Thread sucks kill yourselves

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
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October 29, 2015, 03:02:54 AM
 #81

Techinically that would take time and money and everything related to Laws. It makes sense though

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BADecker
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October 29, 2015, 12:11:22 PM
 #82

Something like this has already been done in the Articles of Confederation... for the United States of America. In case you don't know, this was the "Constitution" before the current Constitution. It didn't have enough strength to fight King George at that time, so it was dropped - even though it is really still in effect. It's just that nobody respects it.

The thing you are looking for is something like this.

1. Everyone is free to do anything he wants as long as he doesn't harm anyone else, damage the property of some other person, or break a contract (which is really harming or damaging someone else).

2. There would be a system of judges that would have no power whatsoever until someone brought a claim of harm or damage. Once a claim was brought, the judges would have the ability to organize a jury to determine the judgment of the claim. The judges would have no power to judge unless the both the claimant and the denier agreed to it.

Judges would be subject to the same laws as the rest of the people.

3. Payment to the judges would be made by the claimants unless the jury decided otherwise.

4. Laws would be made by voluntary contract among groups of people for use with those who were part of the contracts. Laws would not be able to be copyrighted. Thus, anyone could form a group that would agree to the same laws that others had previously agreed to.

Something like the above would be the basis. It takes real thinkers to write contracts that would be good enough to be laws for people. One of the most important laws that would have to be made would be the way that private property land would be "registered" so that everyone would know what property was owned by whom.

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October 29, 2015, 04:05:17 PM
 #83

Cannot be done without opportunity. The best one would be a post world war period
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October 29, 2015, 04:19:45 PM
 #84

Cannot be done without opportunity. The best one would be a post world war period

Actually, the opportunity exists all over America right now. In fact, people are using it. Consider the BLM against the Bundys. A nation wasn't formed, of course, but it shows that if people want to, they can do it. They need to be ready to fight, however.

There is absolutely nothing in law that prohibits the people of America from forming their own nation right on top of the United States. After all, the Articles of Confederation were never repealed as law, and the people simply went forward with the Constitution for the United States of America right on top of the Articles.

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November 01, 2015, 11:22:01 AM
 #85

I don't support this kind of anarchist capitalist world.
It always reminds me Ayn Rand's world in Bioshock where everyone hungers for power endlessly.

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November 02, 2015, 12:18:08 PM
 #86

I would love to live in that kind of society at least for once.
It could be great experience about how we actually don't need a government.
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November 03, 2015, 10:07:37 AM
 #87

I never understood exactly anarchy, but also do not understand the United States and they say it is the freest country in the world...
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November 03, 2015, 12:55:31 PM
 #88

I would like to live in a likeminded community but a micronation would be a bit much. Everybody should have to buy their own property and pay for their own stuff, no freeloaders.
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November 03, 2015, 01:00:41 PM
 #89

I tihnk a lot of communes fail and attract a lot of scam artists.  Undecided
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November 04, 2015, 11:26:24 AM
 #90

The only way you could have independence would be to secede and prepare for war. If you do so, you don't have to buy land.

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November 04, 2015, 12:39:19 PM
 #91

I think it can be done. If we have enough budget we can create the micronation in middle of the ocean outside territorial waters. Plus we nee a navy, airforce and military to protect the new nation. This is very costly but feasible.
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November 04, 2015, 12:44:56 PM
 #92

I never understood exactly anarchy, but also do not understand the United States and they say it is the freest country in the world...

According to the writings, the Constitution and the Bill of rights, on which all U.S. laws are based, the people have two options. These options are:
1. To follow the legality of the United States Government;
2. To NOT follow the legality of the United States Government.

American people think that if they don't obey U.S. laws that they are setting themselves up for punishment. This is true for only one reason. That reason is that the people don't know how to use the Constitution and the Bill of Rights to overcome every law of the United States Government.

Nowhere in any of the writings of the United States are people subject to anything in the U.S. Gov. except if they sight a contract to the effect that they are. Because of this, the only way that someone can say that a person did something criminally, is if the person agrees to it.

Other than that, if there are civil disagreements, it falls under the common law, except if people decide and agree that they want to do it differently.

Common law is where the people use a jury to decide claims of harm or damage against one another or against government.

The laws of the government make it impossible for the government to win in a civil claim, because in court, the plaintiff must appear. If the plaintiff is the government, he can't get on the stand and testify as law requires, so government loses.

The people are free. But if they are too stupid to learn how to use their freedom, they are making themselves to be slaves.

http://voidjudgments.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twn96nj0jfw&index=10&list=PLHrkQxgz0mg6kUBciD-HIvTXByqjcIZ-D


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November 15, 2015, 04:12:07 PM
 #93

People without any knowledge of anarchism equate anarchy with chaos and bloodshed, and I agree that such a thing would happen if governments just disappeared.

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November 15, 2015, 11:13:34 PM
 #94

People without any knowledge of anarchism equate anarchy with chaos and bloodshed, and I agree that such a thing would happen if governments just disappeared.

At the same time, if I am the government, and you want to start a simpler government - like every man for himself - I would say that you are looking to start anarchy. What I mean is, "anarchy is chaos" is a political statement from people who want to remain in control.

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November 15, 2015, 11:20:50 PM
 #95

People without any knowledge of anarchism equate anarchy with chaos and bloodshed, and I agree that such a thing would happen if governments just disappeared.
Anarchism is a political philosophy in which the members do away with all laws and governments. (At least, that's how I understand it.)

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November 15, 2015, 11:24:21 PM
 #96

People without any knowledge of anarchism equate anarchy with chaos and bloodshed, and I agree that such a thing would happen if governments just disappeared.
Anarchism is a political philosophy in which the members do away with all laws and governments. (At least, that's how I understand it.)

Such a thing never happens. Even if all the formal governments in America went bust and shut down, each family or individual human being would be a government to himself. And the laws he enacted for his everyday living would be the laws.

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November 16, 2015, 05:09:30 PM
 #97

King Leonard managed this with Hutt River province in Australia... I've been there, creepy place lol. He has his own money and crown and he sells ambassadorships so people can claim ambassadorial rights abroad lol.

This is a bit like bitnation too - except that's bordlerless and quite serious :/.

Basically, I feel you and I'm with you. I have already moved to a home stead in Wales to live a simpler life, but I would move my family to live in a community of like-minded people and to stand for something important... especially somewhere warmer, although with climate instability revving up, not too close to sea level or fault lines perhaps.

Any constitution would have to be worked on democratically imo and it should contain at its heart the principles of freedom and the hippocratic imperative, with the absence of hierarchy or dominion, just jury style systems for proposals and conflict resolution.

It all sounds lovely. Organise a meet-up in the uk and I'll come to discuss face-to-face for sure. Count me in for £250k and the nicest spot Wink.



peace

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November 17, 2015, 03:56:15 AM
 #98

Anarchist micronation? More than that is happening right now in Europe. All Europe is becoming one big Muslim anarchist "micronation" from all the Muslim immigrants coming in from the Islamic countries.

Watch this video or one of the other copies at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cQkE13m8j0.

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December 16, 2016, 07:53:31 AM
 #99

King Leonard managed this with Hutt River province in Australia... I've been there, creepy place lol. He has his own money and crown and he sells ambassadorships so people can claim ambassadorial rights abroad lol.

This is a bit like bitnation too - except that's bordlerless and quite serious :/.

Yeah Prince of Hutt River is now in the news...

New idea is to declare independence from Australia and allegiance to the U.K. commonwealth:

The Australian government is destroying everything for money: http://www.topherfield.net/ato-takes-hutt-river-province/


Here are some prior discussion of other ideas:

New Zealand – Bucking the Trend to Move Cashless?

You can remain a non-tax resident in New Zealand by not staying there more than 183 days out of every 12 months. If you do become a tax resident, you get 2 years of tax free on worldwide income (not only domestic income). And then you can become a non-tax resident again by being outside the country for 325 days in a year:

http://www.ird.govt.nz/forms-guides/keyword/e-commerce/ir292-guide-nz-tax-residence.html

Remember Kim Dotcom has chosen NZ for his safe haven. NZ does have the north-westerlies which make some people very moody, but apparently this can be avoided seasonally and also living on the main island.


...

One of my correspondents (and her family) was from Australia having moved there after Rhodesia became Zimbabwe.  She wanted OUT of Oz for the reasons mentioned above: even greater Socialist tendencies than the USA.

She, last I heard, has settle on PARAGUAY!  Paraguay (which I visited once almost 30 years ago) is a very backwater place, but I thought it was rather tranquil.  I would bet it is CHEAP.  Paraguay's Eastern Chaco region has the cheapest biomass for sale on the planet. Lots of big & remote places (as in no decent road access) are on sale.  WATER is the main problem.  Lots of sun though, good for solar power.

PY is corrupt, but they all are in S. America.  Brazilians are starting to take over (by migration similar to Mexican informal invasion into the USA) the eastern part of the country.

If you want to be left alone, the Paraguayan Chaco is a place you can disappear.

OROBTC, as I wrote in my reply to you in the MA thread, Paraguay is good for residency and citizenship, but not for living. Problems with the rebels in the Chaco area. Problems with drugs and crime infestation in the cities. Perhaps it is not as bad as the stories on the internet? (I remember stories on the internet of how bad it was in Mindanao, yet I've been here on and off for 25 years)

The way to live in S.A. is Paraguay citizenship and tourist living in Argentina. Or if you prefer substitute any tax haven citizenship for Paraguay, such as Dominica, Pitcairn island, etc..

If you want a place to escape from crime and do what ever you want (including your guns), then look for a Pacific island to buy. Some of us could pool our resources to do that if we were serious.

Yeah Australia looks like it is being taken over by the Communist Chinese as well, who are buying up the land. And they turned Wikileaks founder Assange over the USA. And they highly regulate guns which is so strange for a country that is mostly wide open farms. But Australia is more first world and safer than S.A. countries (and also incredibly expensive).
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December 16, 2016, 08:43:10 AM
 #100

I hate the Australian government with every fibre of my being, good luck to the old man. They will try to bankrupt him, they don't care, they are soulless thieving pigs. I think to attempt something like this today would be an extremely expensive and stressful exercise, the government will happily waste millions of tax payer dollars attacking people who try it.



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December 16, 2016, 07:50:45 PM
 #101

People without any knowledge of anarchism equate anarchy with chaos and bloodshed, and I agree that such a thing would happen if governments just disappeared.
Anarchism is a political philosophy in which the members do away with all laws and governments. (At least, that's how I understand it.)

That's right, anarchism also has its own rules that must be strictly implement. It is not chaos, but has its own system with its own rules
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December 16, 2016, 08:47:38 PM
 #102

The Seasteading Institute.



http://www.seasteading.org/



Cool
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December 18, 2016, 12:55:44 AM
 #103

The Seasteading Institute.



http://www.seasteading.org/



Cool

Call me paranoid but unless that design can float, it would be in danger of the polar icecaps melting or any number of natural disasters that occur fairly regularly...
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December 18, 2016, 01:18:49 AM
 #104

The Seasteading Institute.



http://www.seasteading.org/



Cool

Call me paranoid but unless that design can float, it would be in danger of the polar icecaps melting or any number of natural disasters that occur fairly regularly...

I think the walls are pretty high.
Tbh. I think instead of building walls the city should be able to submerge but then depending on the size of the city that would be very hard to do.

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December 18, 2016, 03:38:13 AM
 #105

The Seasteading Institute.



http://www.seasteading.org/



Cool

Call me paranoid but unless that design can float, it would be in danger of the polar icecaps melting or any number of natural disasters that occur fairly regularly...

I think the walls are pretty high.
Tbh. I think instead of building walls the city should be able to submerge but then depending on the size of the city that would be very hard to do.

It's a floating island. Look it up on the Net.    Cool
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December 18, 2016, 03:56:05 AM
 #106

The Seasteading Institute.



http://www.seasteading.org/



Cool

Call me paranoid but unless that design can float, it would be in danger of the polar icecaps melting or any number of natural disasters that occur fairly regularly...

I think the walls are pretty high.
Tbh. I think instead of building walls the city should be able to submerge but then depending on the size of the city that would be very hard to do.

It's a floating island. Look it up on the Net.    Cool

i would suggest a ring road to link the islands at the outer perimeter because you dont want the congestion  of the whole island having to pass through the central  bottleneck for anyone to get anywhere
only having 1 route through the centre to get from a to b
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December 18, 2016, 11:36:39 AM
 #107

OROBTC if you want to argue the position of an extreme mad max world into a bottomless pit, then I won't stand in your way. That is why we are also working on an anonymous Knowledge Age.

My point is assuming a world that still has some semblance of law, respect for international law which they explicitly ratified on a country-by-country basis, and respect for property rights then I offer a proposal.

Btw, there is an incredibly remote (no airplane service within 1000 kilometers) island nation with only 56 citizens (who will I presume likely be impoverished if cruise ships stop running in a global economic collapse) which will be ripe for buyout in the coming global economic collapse.


Would The Philippines respect your sovereignty if someone bought one of the islands on the "margin" (remote)?  Bet they would not, bet they would not respect UN rulez (technicalitiez) re "stateless people".

Only 56 people?  It's not Nauru (my first guess, 10,000 there (Wikipedia)).

Ahh, got it.  Pitcairn.   I wonder how much they would want (and we pay them to leave)?  It is (story link below) a British Overseas Territory, so might not be for sale.  Would guess NOT.

Here's a story with pictures for the readers of this thread on Pitcairn, no one wants to move there (wiki also has an article):

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/pitcairnislands/11418280/Why-will-nobody-move-to-Pitcairn-the-Pacific-island-with-free-land.html

Looks kind of nice actually...



My country can't even assert its sovereignty on its own islands. Those islands the Chinese took aren't going to be retaken any time soon. If an island-nation would suddenly pop into existence within our borders (well we don't have land borders so it's easier) I'd prefer that it don't have the capability to annex more islands. Who knows, if it develop into something like Singapore, then great, we have a nearby trade partner.
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December 18, 2016, 12:48:47 PM
 #108

The Seasteading Institute.



http://www.seasteading.org/



Cool

Call me paranoid but unless that design can float, it would be in danger of the polar icecaps melting or any number of natural disasters that occur fairly regularly...

I think the walls are pretty high.
Tbh. I think instead of building walls the city should be able to submerge but then depending on the size of the city that would be very hard to do.

It's a floating island. Look it up on the Net.    Cool

i would suggest a ring road to link the islands at the outer perimeter because you dont want the congestion  of the whole island having to pass through the central  bottleneck for anyone to get anywhere
only having 1 route through the centre to get from a to b

Let them know at their website - http://www.seasteading.org/. Get on their email list. They like to hear all the suggestions that they can. You might even pre-purchase a spot for when they eventually get it going.

Cool
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December 18, 2016, 12:51:48 PM
 #109

OROBTC if you want to argue the position of an extreme mad max world into a bottomless pit, then I won't stand in your way. That is why we are also working on an anonymous Knowledge Age.

My point is assuming a world that still has some semblance of law, respect for international law which they explicitly ratified on a country-by-country basis, and respect for property rights then I offer a proposal.

Btw, there is an incredibly remote (no airplane service within 1000 kilometers) island nation with only 56 citizens (who will I presume likely be impoverished if cruise ships stop running in a global economic collapse) which will be ripe for buyout in the coming global economic collapse.


Would The Philippines respect your sovereignty if someone bought one of the islands on the "margin" (remote)?  Bet they would not, bet they would not respect UN rulez (technicalitiez) re "stateless people".

Only 56 people?  It's not Nauru (my first guess, 10,000 there (Wikipedia)).

Ahh, got it.  Pitcairn.   I wonder how much they would want (and we pay them to leave)?  It is (story link below) a British Overseas Territory, so might not be for sale.  Would guess NOT.

Here's a story with pictures for the readers of this thread on Pitcairn, no one wants to move there (wiki also has an article):

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/pitcairnislands/11418280/Why-will-nobody-move-to-Pitcairn-the-Pacific-island-with-free-land.html

Looks kind of nice actually...


It's a floating island. The promoters are attempting to make treaties with various nations and island nations, to allow them a place near their nation to build their floating island. Once built, it could be floated anywhere.

Cool
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December 20, 2016, 03:49:02 AM
 #110

OROBTC if you want to argue the position of an extreme mad max world into a bottomless pit, then I won't stand in your way. That is why we are also working on an anonymous Knowledge Age.

My point is assuming a world that still has some semblance of law, respect for international law which they explicitly ratified on a country-by-country basis, and respect for property rights then I offer a proposal.

Btw, there is an incredibly remote (no airplane service within 1000 kilometers) island nation with only 56 citizens (who will I presume likely be impoverished if cruise ships stop running in a global economic collapse) which will be ripe for buyout in the coming global economic collapse.


Would The Philippines respect your sovereignty if someone bought one of the islands on the "margin" (remote)?  Bet they would not, bet they would not respect UN rulez (technicalitiez) re "stateless people".

Only 56 people?  It's not Nauru (my first guess, 10,000 there (Wikipedia)).

Ahh, got it.  Pitcairn.   I wonder how much they would want (and we pay them to leave)?  It is (story link below) a British Overseas Territory, so might not be for sale.  Would guess NOT.

Here's a story with pictures for the readers of this thread on Pitcairn, no one wants to move there (wiki also has an article):

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/pitcairnislands/11418280/Why-will-nobody-move-to-Pitcairn-the-Pacific-island-with-free-land.html

Looks kind of nice actually...


It's a floating island. The promoters are attempting to make treaties with various nations and island nations, to allow them a place near their nation to build their floating island. Once built, it could be floated anywhere.

Cool

Nice. I hope they'd be able to share the technology. Many of the larger cities here in the Philippines are near the coastline and would probably be submerged when the water level rises.
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December 20, 2016, 09:18:36 AM
 #111

OROBTC if you want to argue the position of an extreme mad max world into a bottomless pit, then I won't stand in your way. That is why we are also working on an anonymous Knowledge Age.

My point is assuming a world that still has some semblance of law, respect for international law which they explicitly ratified on a country-by-country basis, and respect for property rights then I offer a proposal.

Btw, there is an incredibly remote (no airplane service within 1000 kilometers) island nation with only 56 citizens (who will I presume likely be impoverished if cruise ships stop running in a global economic collapse) which will be ripe for buyout in the coming global economic collapse.


Would The Philippines respect your sovereignty if someone bought one of the islands on the "margin" (remote)?  Bet they would not, bet they would not respect UN rulez (technicalitiez) re "stateless people".

Only 56 people?  It's not Nauru (my first guess, 10,000 there (Wikipedia)).

Ahh, got it.  Pitcairn.   I wonder how much they would want (and we pay them to leave)?  It is (story link below) a British Overseas Territory, so might not be for sale.  Would guess NOT.

Here's a story with pictures for the readers of this thread on Pitcairn, no one wants to move there (wiki also has an article):

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/pitcairnislands/11418280/Why-will-nobody-move-to-Pitcairn-the-Pacific-island-with-free-land.html

Looks kind of nice actually...


It's a floating island. The promoters are attempting to make treaties with various nations and island nations, to allow them a place near their nation to build their floating island. Once built, it could be floated anywhere.

Cool

Nice. I hope they'd be able to share the technology. Many of the larger cities here in the Philippines are near the coastline and would probably be submerged when the water level rises.

I would think that, at least to start with, they will use some standard technology that's already out there. For example, many people are ignorant of the fact that you can make boat hulls out of concrete. Yet this is standard boat-building knowledge.

Cool
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December 20, 2016, 05:08:34 PM
 #112

Brother, not only you alone believe in the idea of an anarchist society. Nestor Makhno had tried to create the commune, but Communists did not let him develop the idea that . We must understand that in such a society do not need any money and furthermore cryptomoney. All this is described in the works of Pyotr Kropotkin.

Personally, I would like to live in Israel Kibbutz.




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December 20, 2016, 05:26:23 PM
 #113

Brother, not only you alone believe in the idea of an anarchist society. Nestor Makhno had tried to create the commune, but Communists did not let him develop the idea that . We must understand that in such a society do not need any money and furthermore cryptomoney. All this is described in the works of Pyotr Kropotkin.

Personally, I would like to live in Israel Kibbutz.
I also don't believe in God. Moreover, Amosov made for people more than God, but everyone is talking about God and talking about Amosov I personally knew this great surgeon. Very smart man he was. And name me one good thing that made your God.
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December 20, 2016, 06:29:59 PM
 #114

The Seasteading Institute.



http://www.seasteading.org/



Cool


The physics of that won't work.
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December 20, 2016, 06:48:04 PM
 #115

The Seasteading Institute.



http://www.seasteading.org/



Cool


The physics of that won't work.

Thank you for your highly detailed assessment.    Cool
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October 02, 2017, 08:43:33 PM
 #116

OK, a little late in the day, but...

Roger Ver - a.k.a bitcoin Jesus - and Olivier Janssens are trying to transform a long-sought after libertarian ideal into a reality. As CoinTelegraph reports, the pair has announced that they’re in the process of creating the first independent state governed by libertarian values – and they’ve invited any like-minded individuals to join them.

The pair said Friday that they’re working with a team of lawyers to try and figure out how to legally create their own independent country. Ver is a longtime advocate of bitcoin who surrendered his US citizenship and became a citizen of St. Kitts and Nevis a few years back.

The pair have yet to disclose the location, nor has indicated what entry standards would be required.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-22/bitcoin-jesus-trying-create-sovereign-libertarian-utopia
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November 01, 2017, 12:14:35 AM
 #117

There are a lot of self proclaimed micro-nations. Apart from the United States, which is one of the most famous ones, I have found this little "Chaotic Obscure MicroNation of Torriglia, in the mountains of Italy, lead by President Kremo:

https://nazioneoscura.wordpress.com/mr-president-lukha-b-kremo/#english

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