Slimcoin | First Proof of Burn currency | Decentralized Web

[gjhiggins]

But near vertical diff changes wonders me what hardware someone have plugged in.
Still without any pool, the diff changed dramatically.

There has apparently been a sudden influx of previously-abandoned, extremely well-funded wallets. The coin age factor has warped the emissions ratios. This may be a temporary phenomenon but if the distortion persists, we will need to take remedial action to address the distributive imbalance.

I'm working my way through ACME atm, refactoring the code for robustness and clearing out some detritus remaining from earlier scribblings.

Cheers

Graham

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[muf18]

Yeah I thought so that old users have comeback.
So they artifically warped the diff up - because I don't see so much influx of processing power (4mh/s, is maybe 50% more than it was a few days ago, and diff was like 0.1-.15).

[eliteyo]

My Slimcoin wallet both 0.5 and 0.3 (windows 10) crashes at what seems to be random times, it'll crash faster if I'm mining. Any idea what the issue could be and what I could do to fix it?

[muf18]

Maybe wallet file or blockchain is broken.
Try once again, with new wallet file (of course save the other one/backup), and delete blockchain files, from "%appdata%/Slimcoin".

But loose thoughts - I turned down my nodes, with miners, cause it was unproportionally hard to mine, with now POS blocks taking most of the blockchain,
something isn't right (the influx of old users with old .dat wallets, and unproportionally big rewards for them - it's really bad, it should be stopped - they weren't active for 2-3 years, and now they just activate wallet, and have big-a.. rewards for doing nothing for these years - that's not how balance of power should be). It should be rebalanced soon, because POS is now taking every block almost - out of the POW and POB mining, and that's bad.
I recommend every one to turn off miners, before everything stabilise again, because that's unhealthy situation now, and miners (both POW and POB) are getting f.....

With these nethash we should be around 0.1 - 0.15 diff, and now is 0.35-0.4...

[gavrilo77]

Maybe wallet file or blockchain is broken.
Try once again, with new wallet file (of course save the other one/backup), and delete blockchain files, from "%appdata%/Slimcoin".

But loose thoughts - I turned down my nodes, with miners, cause it was unproportionally hard to mine, with now POS blocks taking most of the blockchain,
something isn't right (the influx of old users with old .dat wallets, and unproportionally big rewards for them - it's really bad, it should be stopped - they weren't active for 2-3 years, and now they just activate wallet, and have big-a.. rewards for doing nothing for these years - that's not how balance of power should be). It should be rebalanced soon, because POS is now taking every block almost - out of the POW and POB mining, and that's bad.
I recommend every one to turn off miners, before everything stabilise again, because that's unhealthy situation now, and miners (both POW and POB) are getting f.....

With these nethash we should be around 0.1 - 0.15 diff, and now is 0.35-0.4...

It should not take for long, because soon will come very small amounts of stake coins, and with the thousands of number of transaction it can create only problem for wallet. That is from my experience when i turned on first time PoS after two years, and CPU usage is huge

Edit: I expect soon dumping of stake coins

[dzarmush]

Maybe wallet file or blockchain is broken.
Try once again, with new wallet file (of course save the other one/backup), and delete blockchain files, from "%appdata%/Slimcoin".

But loose thoughts - I turned down my nodes, with miners, cause it was unproportionally hard to mine, with now POS blocks taking most of the blockchain,
something isn't right (the influx of old users with old .dat wallets, and unproportionally big rewards for them - it's really bad, it should be stopped - they weren't active for 2-3 years, and now they just activate wallet, and have big-a.. rewards for doing nothing for these years - that's not how balance of power should be). It should be rebalanced soon, because POS is now taking every block almost - out of the POW and POB mining, and that's bad.
I recommend every one to turn off miners, before everything stabilise again, because that's unhealthy situation now, and miners (both POW and POB) are getting f.....

With these nethash we should be around 0.1 - 0.15 diff, and now is 0.35-0.4...

It should not take for long, because soon will come very small amounts of stake coins, and with the thousands of number of transaction it can create only problem for wallet. That is from my experience when i turned on first time PoS after two years, and CPU usage is huge

Edit: I expect soon dumping of stake coins

Where do you see this kind of info? I looked through some top addresses, they were inactive for a long time and still inactive.

[gavrilo77]

I would say this is not from the top address stake blocks. I just assume, because if someone with big bag started to stake after a few years you would see i huge transactions in the first 20-30 blocks, after that the amount of the SLM would slowly decrease but not immediately with small amount of SLM . Here what i have seen it is not the case , the huge numbers of the PoS blocks started from block 1071894, 2017-08-13 00:37:33 UTC. You can see that the first blocks are around 3 SLM, and after many small amounts. This most likely from miner who recently started mining and who buy some amount of SLM on Nova. As i said i just assume because, i know how this is going when have big bag of SLM. That is why when i turn on stake, i dont hold it open more than hour or two. Because i earn more with mining per day than one month to stake.
Who ever stake for the long time should be aware that that is not favor  to himself to increase difficulty.

Edit: So i agree with muf, PoS shall be canceled or shall be separated from PoW and PoB difficulties if possible

[eliteyo]

Maybe wallet file or blockchain is broken.
Try once again, with new wallet file (of course save the other one/backup), and delete blockchain files, from "%appdata%/Slimcoin".

¨

Tried both, still getting crashes. 

[d5000]

something isn't right (the influx of old users with old .dat wallets, and unproportionally big rewards for them - it's really bad, it should be stopped - they weren't active for 2-3 years, and now they just activate wallet, and have big-a.. rewards for doing nothing for these years - that's not how balance of power should be). It should be rebalanced soon, because POS is now taking every block almost - out of the POW and POB mining, and that's bad.

The algorithm should prevent too much PoS blocks because chain trust (the higher chain trust, the "longer" the chain) lowers when the PoW block rate is too low. So the situation should eventually stabilize. And then what gavrilo77 already said should happen - most PoS new PoS stakers will already have earned their yearly reward and then they will probably turn off their clients until it makes sense again.

I see it as a test for Slimcoin - if it works out well without a chain split, then Slimcoin is on a very good way.

I recommend every one to turn off miners, before everything stabilise again, because that's unhealthy situation now, and miners (both POW and POB) are getting f.....

I don't think that is the correct conclusion - as far as I know, that would only lower the PoW difficulty and would not have influence on PoS.

Tried both, still getting crashes. 

Can you find something strange in the debug.log file? If you want, you can send me a PM with the last lines (the full file should be a bit long) or a link to a pastebin service and I'll see if I spot something suspicious.

[dzarmush]

Who ever stake for the long time should be aware that that is not favor  to himself to increase difficulty.

PoS staking increases PoW difficulty?

[muf18]

Yeah because it's connected - POS minting to POW and POB mining. Because of this diff is now artfically high for POW and POB, and blocks are almost exclusivly for POS, because some quite big stakers are now staking. It should be managed other way, because distrubtion of power now is too much in favour of POS minters (even if it will be for short time). Without pool with solo mining only I mined today only 24SLM which is laughable with hardware which I have (1x FX 8320 4.5ghz, 1x i5 6400 4ghz, 1x i7 2670qm).
And this type of staking (once in the year) dont help network at all - because it means that once they staked blocks, they are turning off, which means that network health is mainly in the hands of POW and POB miners.
And with POS I would gain like hunders or thousands of SLM today, with right amount.

Turning off miners should occur, because it doesnt make sense now to mine blocks, with such low rewards. And if there will be only little power in POW and POB, rebalancing will be faster.

And thus for the understanding also - POW miners are making hard work (thus should be rewarded greatly than POS minters), the same applicant to POB miners - they invest in virtual rigs to mine to have from them rewards - thus burning coins - it's costy for them also. POS minters are only sitting on their coins and do (almost) nothing. Thus this state cant be take much longer and if it will - it wont be good for health of Slimcoin, because POS minters cant be less trusted that, POW and for sure POB - POB miners are the most trusted, because they invested to get rewards, so they will remain till the end.

[gavrilo77]

Yeah because it's connected - POS minting to POW and POB mining. Because of this diff is now artfically high for POW and POB, and blocks are almost exclusivly for POS, because some quite big stakers are now staking. It should be managed other way, because distrubtion of power now is too much favour of POS minters (even if it will be for short time). Without pool with solo mining only I mined today only 24SLM which is laughable with hardware which I have (1x FX 8320 4.5ghz, 1x i5 6400 4ghz, 1x i7 2670qm).
And this type of staking (once in the year) dont help network at all - because it means that once they staked blocks, they are turning off, which means that network health is mainly in the hands of POW and POB miners.
And with POS I would gain like hunders or thousands of SLM today, with right amount.

Turning of miners should occur, because it doesnt make sense now to mine blocks, with such low rewards. And if there will be only little power in POW and POB, rebalancing will be faster.

And thus for the understanding also - POW miners are making hard work (thus should be rewarded greatly than POS minters), the same applicant to POB miners - they invest in virtual rigs to mine to have from them rewards - thus burning coins - it's costy for them also. POS minters are only sitting on their coins and do (almost) nothing. Thus this state cant be take much longer and if it will - it wont be good for health of Slimcoin, because POS minters cant be less trusted that, POW and for sure POB - POB miners are the most trusted, because they invested to get rewards, so they will remain till the end.

Most likely this is one staker, but what would happen if for example 10 or 20 people start to stake?

[hannusolo]

In the slimcoin wallet can I somehow see the Proof of stake statistics like in other wallets? I mean "my weight in the netrork" and the "total network weight". Can I access these data thorigh some console commands maybe?

Nobody can help me with this?

Anyways, still no info about a pow mining pool?

[muf18]

Yeah because it's connected - POS minting to POW and POB mining. Because of this diff is now artfically high for POW and POB, and blocks are almost exclusivly for POS, because some quite big stakers are now staking. It should be managed other way, because distrubtion of power now is too much favour of POS minters (even if it will be for short time). Without pool with solo mining only I mined today only 24SLM which is laughable with hardware which I have (1x FX 8320 4.5ghz, 1x i5 6400 4ghz, 1x i7 2670qm).
And this type of staking (once in the year) dont help network at all - because it means that once they staked blocks, they are turning off, which means that network health is mainly in the hands of POW and POB miners.
And with POS I would gain like hunders or thousands of SLM today, with right amount.

Turning of miners should occur, because it doesnt make sense now to mine blocks, with such low rewards. And if there will be only little power in POW and POB, rebalancing will be faster.

And thus for the understanding also - POW miners are making hard work (thus should be rewarded greatly than POS minters), the same applicant to POB miners - they invest in virtual rigs to mine to have from them rewards - thus burning coins - it's costy for them also. POS minters are only sitting on their coins and do (almost) nothing. Thus this state cant be take much longer and if it will - it wont be good for health of Slimcoin, because POS minters cant be less trusted that, POW and for sure POB - POB miners are the most trusted, because they invested to get rewards, so they will remain till the end.

Most likely this is one staker, but what would happen if for example 10 or 20 people start to stake?

I don't know what would happen... Maybe the diff for POS would increased dramatically, and there will be balance in the end?
Strange enough - number of nodes is getting smaller (only 35 now, was 45-47 a few hours ago), but nethash isn't going down so much (around 2.9-3MH/s, for now).

I hope and truly speak to POW miners - turn off your machines, now, because you can't compete, with such big POS staker, which wasn't staking for so long time.
Or someone had found and now is now exploiting a bug with POS minting, but it doesn't seem likely, but still - this is very strange, because I thought, distrubtion of power in coin, was very good managed. History of not staking for very long time, should be erased too - like if you don't stake for, a few weeks, one month - it doesn't matter that you didn't - you shouldn't get rewards, like from one or two years behind, because you didn't contribute to the network nothing, and I think most of you will agree with me. Because now if someone has like 500K-1M or more SLM (there are a few personalities like this I think, maybe 2-3, but there are), is now having to great effect on distrubtion with events like this.

Blockchain or ACME is having a problem now - because like a lot of nodes are disconnected, I see.

[gavrilo77]

Yeah because it's connected - POS minting to POW and POB mining. Because of this diff is now artfically high for POW and POB, and blocks are almost exclusivly for POS, because some quite big stakers are now staking. It should be managed other way, because distrubtion of power now is too much favour of POS minters (even if it will be for short time). Without pool with solo mining only I mined today only 24SLM which is laughable with hardware which I have (1x FX 8320 4.5ghz, 1x i5 6400 4ghz, 1x i7 2670qm).
And this type of staking (once in the year) dont help network at all - because it means that once they staked blocks, they are turning off, which means that network health is mainly in the hands of POW and POB miners.
And with POS I would gain like hunders or thousands of SLM today, with right amount.

Turning of miners should occur, because it doesnt make sense now to mine blocks, with such low rewards. And if there will be only little power in POW and POB, rebalancing will be faster.

And thus for the understanding also - POW miners are making hard work (thus should be rewarded greatly than POS minters), the same applicant to POB miners - they invest in virtual rigs to mine to have from them rewards - thus burning coins - it's costy for them also. POS minters are only sitting on their coins and do (almost) nothing. Thus this state cant be take much longer and if it will - it wont be good for health of Slimcoin, because POS minters cant be less trusted that, POW and for sure POB - POB miners are the most trusted, because they invested to get rewards, so they will remain till the end.

Most likely this is one staker, but what would happen if for example 10 or 20 people start to stake?

I don't know what would happen... Maybe the diff for POS would increased dramatically, and there will be balance in the end?
Strange enough - number of nodes is getting smaller (only 35 now, was 45-47 a few hours ago), but nethash isn't going down so much (around 2.9-3MH/s, for now).

I hope and truly speak to POW miners - turn off your machines, now, because you can't compete, with such big POS staker, which wasn't staking for so long time.
Or someone had found and now is now exploiting a bug with POS minting, but it doesn't seem likely, but still - this is very strange, because I thought, distrubtion of power in coin, was very good managed. History of not staking for very long time, should be erased too - like if you don't stake for, a few weeks, one month - it doesn't matter that you didn't - you shouldn't get rewards, like from one or two years behind, because you didn't contribute to the network nothing, and I think most of you will agree with me. Because now if someone has like 500K-1M or more SLM (there are a few personalities like this I think, maybe 2-3, but there are), is now having to great effect on distrubtion with events like this.

Blockchain or ACME is having a problem now - because like a lot of nodes are disconnected, I see.

I turned off my miners as well, became pointless

[dzarmush]

I actually find it odd that you can stake for 5 minutes a year and still get 10% gain on your balance. In all PoS coins I know of, one have to staying online in order to stake.

[gavrilo77]

I actually find it odd that you can stake for 5 minutes a year and still get 10% gain on your balance. In all PoS coins I know of, one have to staying online in order to stake.

Yes, this is what i wrote before. No need to keep PoS 24/7

[d5000]

I hope and truly speak to POW miners - turn off your machines, now, because you can't compete, with such big POS staker, which wasn't staking for so long time.

What would be the advantage of the miners turning off their miners? For my understanding, that would weaken the network because less nodes would participate in the validation/"block finding" process. So I would give exactly the opposite recommendation - for me, miners should continue to mine. But I would wait for someone with better technical understanding.

I actually find it odd that you can stake for 5 minutes a year and still get 10% gain on your balance. In all PoS coins I know of, one have to staying online in order to stake.

Which coins are you referring to? Peercoin and all coins that use its PoS algorithm have the same "problem" (or "feature") - they use a block reward that is proportional to your stake (e.g. 1% per coin-year in Peercoin). NXT and similar coins are different because they don't have any block reward but you can get transaction fees, and DPOS coins are working in a completely different way.

I also would like a reward mechanism more similar to that of NXT because it would incentive stakers to stay online, but that would need a hard fork.

[muf18]

There are enough nodes to validate transactions, without POW miners on this point of development, because there isn't any real transfer of coins yet, there is some real power behind network. POW miners must have some inncentive to mine - when you have quite powerful computers and you mine like below 50 cents (even tho I believe in Slimcoin and that the value will be higher in future), I cant agree to such terms, because it's a waste of electricity for me.

And to other will be too. 1/3 of the network disconnected, because of this event today, and until it will be fixed - they wont connected as a full node with POW or POB mining again.

Ofcourse it will weaken security of network - but with events like this I think more dangerous is POS minter/s who is/are attacking network with their spam validating blocks, which shouldnt be validated imo. It's much more dangerous, because there can be fork/chain split and again network can be in really bad shape.

I think I have done quite some work to propagate and distribute knowledge about this fantastic project - but still I'm not blind to see some failures/drawbacks, and what we have to do to make it better.
Hard fork is ok, if we must correct some base drawbacks and fragile errors in the projects, that can be dangerous for the network of Slimcoin, because can be used against it, even tho it wasnt designed to do so (to be against network - but this 'feature' is actually against it).

It actually makes every big holder almost a manipulator of network, when he wants to mint some coins once a year.

[dzarmush]

Which coins are you referring to? Peercoin and all coins that use its PoS algorithm have the same "problem" (or "feature") - they use a block reward that is proportional to your stake (e.g. 1% per coin-year in Peercoin). NXT and similar coins are different because they don't have any block reward but you can get transaction fees, and DPOS coins are working in a completely different way.

I also would like a reward mechanism more similar to that of NXT because it would incentive stakers to stay online, but that would need a hard fork.

Particl and Lisk, I think, have yearly inflation that goes to nodes that stay online. I thought Nxt is also the same, but now I remember it's not.