How do funds that invest in themselves work?

[nimda]

Hmmm... Let's say you have the following funds. Each issues 100 shares, each representing 1%, and none of them have anything other than what is listed.
Fund A: 50 shares of fund B
Fund B: 50 shares of fund C
Fund C: 50 shares of fund A *and* one bitcoin.

How much would you pay per share of each company? Obviously all 300 shares in total must be worth one bitcoin...

[1715298954]

1715298954

[nimda]

Code:

A share of fund C is worth at least 0.01   BTC.
A share of fund P is worth at least 0.005  BTC.
A share of fund A is worth at least 0.0025 BTC.

C holds 50 A shares...
A share of fund C is worth at least 0.01125
A share of fund P is worth at least 0.005625
A share of fund A is worth at least 0.0028125

C holds 50 A shares...
A share of fund C is worth at least 0.01140625
A share of fund P is worth at least 0.005703125
A share of fund A is worth at least 0.0028515625

Whee...
C 0.01142578125
P 0.00571289062
A 0.00285644531

C 0.01142822265
P 0.00571411132
A 0.00285705566

C 0.01142852783
P 0.00571426391
A 0.00285713195

C 0.01142856597
P 0.00571428298
A 0.00285714149

C 0.01142857074
...

Add up the value of all the shares (approx. 0.01142856597 * 100 + 0.00571428298 * 100 + 0.00285714149 * 100), and you get 2 BTC

Fun stuff, eh?

[puffn]

Surely you did algebra at some point in your life. Substitute the definition of each into the third formula and solve.

c= .5a +1
b= .5c
a = .5b

1c= .125c +1
Solve.
.875c =1
c= 1.142857
b= .571
a= .2855

[nimda]

It was a joke at usagi's expense. Hence the "CPA."

[puffn]

It was a joke at usagi's expense. Hence the "CPA."

Whoosh! Nice.

[cunicula]

It should be pointed out that usagi's intention is a joke at shareholder's expense.

If you own the 26 shares of a, 1 share of b, and 1 share of c, then you have complete control over all three companies, even though you own only a small fraction of their total assets.

Now introduce company d which usagi owns completely. Shareholders at companies a, b, and c 'vote' (read usagi votes) to sell all their assets to company d at a bargain price. Companies a, b, and c have now been looted by usagi. Typically this happens after some bad event has made companies a,b, and c go sour.

This is what stock markets in developing countries look like. caveat emptor

[nimda]

It was a joke at usagi's expense. Hence the "CPA."

Whoosh! Nice.

I can't make political cartoons about "slippery slopes" without computing the coefficient of static friction

[nebulus]

lol

[nimda]

Surely you did algebra at some point in your life. Substitute the definition of each into the third formula and solve.

c= .5a +1
b= .5c
a = .5b

1c= .125c +1
Solve.
.875c =1
c= 1.142857
b= .571
a= .2855

OOPS!
How can c be worth more than 1 BTC, when 1 BTC is all that is held in this incestuous relationship?
Spoiler: the answer is that there's only 50% of each company available to trade, hence their calculated sums being equal to 2

[nimda]

On a more serious note, this is a huge problem. Say there are 5 companies in a circle: A-B-C-D-E-A. If D sells even one share of E, it reduces the NAV of all 5 companies. And when NYAN, NYAN.A, NYAN.B, NYAN.C, CPA, and BMF all invest in each other (and in obsi.h_ighr_iskpt -- even the "low risk" nyan.b), AND they're all owned by usagi who wears many hats, usagi has direct control over the NAV of each one of them, even by making seemingly innocent changes.

[cunicula]

Usagi likely operates OBSI.

[Bitcoin Oz]

[puffn]

lolwut?

[Bitcoin Oz]

Usagi likely operates OBSI.

LOL.

[cunicula]

I'm confused. I was trying to identify company d, where investments from companies a,b, and c go to get stolen.
I know money from a,b,c is going into OBSI. Thus, the natural conclusion is that OBSI is likely company d.

Strangely enough both OBSI and Usagi have posted here, but they did not deny my accusation. You'd think they would want to make a statement about this.

[Puppet]

You guys, and especially nimda, are really fucking dumb.

BMF owns (owned) 24 (i.e. 0.12%) of NYAN last week, and NYAN.B owns (owned) 6,600 CPA (~12%), which was around 15% of NYAN.B. That position was cut by over 50% this week. to less than 6%. This is nowhere near 50% and there's absolutely no reason why NYAN.B can't invest in CPA anyway.

CPA owns ~100% of Nyan does it not?
And your own fantasy NAV statements further show that ~50% of Nyan.A 'real value' consists of BMF (which itself owns a small share in NYAN) and judging by your last poll, you control close to 100% of BMF, possibly through CPA (which again makes up a good portion of Nyan.B).

[nimda]

Usagi likely operates OBSI.

You guys, and especially nimda, are really fucking dumb.

BMF owns (owned) 24 (i.e. 0.12%) of NYAN last week, and NYAN.B owns (owned) 6,600 CPA (~12%), which was around 15% of NYAN.B. That position was cut by over 50% this week. to less than 6%. This is nowhere near 50% and there's absolutely no reason why NYAN.B can't invest in CPA anyway. Nimda is seriously mentally retarded. You should see his "analysis of YARR" thread where he proposes the premium people pay on insurance should, itself, be covered by the insurance they're paying for. How fucking stupid can one man be?

<nimda> math math math
<nimda> more math. Math is fun.
<nimda> joke containing math.
<puffn> math
<nimda> Joke about how my jokes have too much science
<nebulus> lol
<usagi> YOU'RE A RETARD AND YOUR MATH IS WRONG *INSERT STRAW MAN FALLACY* AND YOU'RE JUST INCREDIBLY FUCKING STUPID

<nimda> my math is correct, and I invite you to formally disprove it.
<usagi> AD HOMINEM AD HOMINEM STRAW MAN
<usagi> FALLACIES MAKE ME LOOK SMARTER
<usagi> I WEAR A LOT OF HATS

[guruvan]

Usagi likely operates OBSI.

You guys, and especially nimda, are really fucking dumb.

BMF owns (owned) 24 (i.e. 0.12%) of NYAN last week, and NYAN.B owns (owned) 6,600 CPA (~12%), which was around 15% of NYAN.B. That position was cut by over 50% this week. to less than 6%. This is nowhere near 50% and there's absolutely no reason why NYAN.B can't invest in CPA anyway. Nimda is seriously mentally retarded. You should see his "analysis of YARR" thread where he proposes the premium people pay on insurance should, itself, be covered by the insurance they're paying for. How fucking stupid can one man be?

<nimda> math math math
<nimda> more math. Math is fun.
<nimda> joke containing math.
<puffn> math
<nimda> Joke about how my jokes have too much science
<nebulus> lol
<usagi> YOU'RE A RETARD AND YOUR MATH IS WRONG *INSERT STRAW MAN FALLACY* AND YOU'RE JUST INCREDIBLY FUCKING STUPID

<nimda> my math is correct, and I invite you to formally disprove it.
<usagi> AD HOMINEM AD HOMINEM STRAW MAN
<usagi> FALLACIES MAKE ME LOOK SMARTER
<usagi> I WEAR A LOT OF HATS

You're cruising for a scam accusation from usagi, you know.

[nimda]

Usagi likely operates OBSI.

You guys, and especially nimda, are really fucking dumb.

BMF owns (owned) 24 (i.e. 0.12%) of NYAN last week, and NYAN.B owns (owned) 6,600 CPA (~12%), which was around 15% of NYAN.B. That position was cut by over 50% this week. to less than 6%. This is nowhere near 50% and there's absolutely no reason why NYAN.B can't invest in CPA anyway. Nimda is seriously mentally retarded. You should see his "analysis of YARR" thread where he proposes the premium people pay on insurance should, itself, be covered by the insurance they're paying for. How fucking stupid can one man be?

<nimda> math math math
<nimda> more math. Math is fun.
<nimda> joke containing math.
<puffn> math
<nimda> Joke about how my jokes have too much science
<nebulus> lol
<usagi> YOU'RE A RETARD AND YOUR MATH IS WRONG *INSERT STRAW MAN FALLACY* AND YOU'RE JUST INCREDIBLY FUCKING STUPID

<nimda> my math is correct, and I invite you to formally disprove it.
<usagi> AD HOMINEM AD HOMINEM STRAW MAN
<usagi> FALLACIES MAKE ME LOOK SMARTER
<usagi> I WEAR A LOT OF HATS

You're cruising for a scam accusation from usagi, you know.

I'd prefer he point out the errors in my math first. I've invited him several times to formally disprove my analysis of insured pirate securities, but so far, all that has happened is I've been proven right

[Puppet]

but so far, all that has happened is I've been proven right

Thats because you are really fucking dumb. And a troll. And someone is paying you to write stuff thats actually
true.

[nimda]

but so far, all that has happened is I've been proven right

Thats because you are really fucking dumb. And a troll. And someone is paying you to write stuff thats actually
true.

Actually, I sold my sig space for 0.7 BTC. The implicit understanding was that I would continue to post on the forums...

[Puppet]

You missed my sarcasm tags...

[nimda]

You missed my sarcasm tags...

Lol no, you missed mine. See the word "actually?"