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Author Topic: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM  (Read 383582 times)
pawelek
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May 26, 2013, 06:01:09 PM
 #1621

I still waiting for my butterfly order
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creativex
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May 26, 2013, 06:07:41 PM
 #1622

Describing BFL's pyramid scam as a "kerfuffle" is itself a "kerfuffle". The notion that they're just incompetent, but well meaning or trustworthy is SO last year. What was that 2012 drop dead date for chip delivery again? Roll Eyes

The article linked above also dismisses BFL reps' lack of social graces as a by-product of their nerdiness and tech savvy nature, yet it's been proven again and again that their Chief Operating Officer knows next to nothing about chip production, product design, chip cooling, power consumption, or a multitude of other elements essential to the production of a product as technically challenging as an ASIC mining device. This is why BFL has outsourced nearly everything, supposedly to people that DO know this stuff. So what is it that BFL people do all day again? ...and why can't they treat investors with the respect they deserve?

charleshoskinson
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May 26, 2013, 06:29:40 PM
 #1623

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Describing BFL's pyramid scam as a "kerfuffle" is itself a "kerfuffle". The notion that they're just incompetent, but well meaning or trustworthy is SO last year. What was that 2012 drop dead date for chip delivery again?

The article linked above also dismisses BFL reps lack of social graces as a by-product of their nerdiness and tech savvy nature, yet it's been proven again and again that their Chief Operating Officer knows next to nothing about chip production, product design, chip cooling, power consumption, or a multitude of other elements essential to the production of a product as technically challenging as an ASIC mining device. This is why BFL has outsourced nearly everything, supposedly to people that DO know this stuff. So what is it that BFL people do all day again? ...and why can't they treat investors with the respect they deserve?

They are young and inexperienced. ASIC design is both hard and prone to so many unexpected delays. Generally, one designs chips in silent mode until you have a functional product that needs polish. Then you announce it to the world and accept preorders. If the customers are going to share the risk in the R&D phase, then you inform them. The real tragedy here is if BFL simply had a kickstarter campaign last year and didn't announce a release date nor claimed the feasibility of the minirig, then the community would be really happy about them shipping 5 GH units and evangelizing the brand as another bitcoin success.

Instead they continue to arrogantly pretend like nothing went wrong, insult anyone who questions them, imply they have products in the catalog that simply do not exist and refuse to talk to the media. Here's some free business advice from the "kid living in his mother's basement" Josh. Have BFL do the following.

  • The CEO writes an open letter to everyone apologizing for the delays and thanking your customers for their patience and support
  • The CEO contacts bitcoin magazine and coindesk to commit to a full interview regarding the events of the last year
  • Remove the Minirig from your product catalog on the website and replace it with a coming soon product picture
  • Shut down Josh's account on bitcointalk and replace him with someone who understands the words social media strategy
  • Hold an online townhall for every customer to attend and directly ask questions to the executive management
  • Launch a pretty website that shows the shipping queue real time and allows for verified customer feedback
  • Have BFL's chief engineer post a youtube video giving a tour the assembly facility and discuss why BFL's technology is both unique and cool

This list really isn't actually hard to do and would correct most of the mistakes you guys have made. Or you can continue calling me an idiot, attacking my integrity, insulting your customers, over-promising, existing with no media strategy outside shipping review units that reveal a mountain of lies (like ars technica's unit consuming 10 watts per GH- that's a fucking fact Josh) and advertising products that you are no longer selling.

If Bitcoin is here to stay, then ASICs will be big business and good fucking luck competing with AMD and Intel in this space.

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jordaninthesky
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May 26, 2013, 06:36:36 PM
 #1624

I'd be laughing if people didn't suffer so terribly especially with the bitcoin preorders. It really makes me sad.

BFL blames Bitpay for this, so obviously BFL is good.  Even though Bitpay pays them the way that they want...  

Even though BFL sold us on supporting BTC because THEY ACCEPT BTC as a form of payment.

It was BFL who elected to turn customers BTC into cash, not Bitpay.  Bitpay forwards money in terms the receiving merchant dictates.  BTC or $ or both!  Bless Bitpay.  It was BFL who valued $ over BTC and made the decision to lose everyone's value of investment by electing to cash out the BTC.  This is a transparent for everyone to see.  And it's clearly conniving.

But then again, we have the priorities.  Pictures/Press/Pandering/Advertising/Reckless Publicized Gambling of Josh losing 20,000 BTC, what?  Shipping is in there somewhere.  Oh, they don't call it shipping anymore, they call it "in two weeks".
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May 26, 2013, 08:49:25 PM
 #1625

Then people say its all the trolls that are creating FUD. I purposely stayed silent Josh and other have stepped up to voice their concerns. Notice how many there are?

You did say that you enjoyed getting all the trolls worked up because it brings attention to your website and the pre-orders come flowing in. As you do find it a good business model. Right?

..and there is this one too..

Quote
Josh, we know this is yet another lie coming from you.

Clearly, you do care. Care enough to tell Jody to cancel my orders, care enough to advertise for Butterfly Labs here, and obviously care enough to post in these forums.-Xian01


If I had my orders with you I would be still waiting...... From Oct 10 2012.

Well seems you really stirred up more than just trolls. Good luck.

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May 26, 2013, 09:30:40 PM
 #1626

What, you mean the same people posting the same stuff over and over?  What's your point?  It's already known... there's no one knew coming to the party and you're in the newbie section, so as you're so keen on pointing out, everyone that is a newbie is a sock puppet.  

Or does that only apply when people don't agree with you?

Seriously... look in the Custom Hardware section... all the bitching is done by a handful of people, spouting the same nonsense over and over.  The amount of people complaining versus the amount of people who don't complain amounts to about 1% our customers who complain, the other 99% don't.   So again, your point?

As for caring, I said I don't care that poor little Charlie got his boat of lies sunk by facts... yet again.  Learn to read.  I only post here because it's entertaining, beyond that I don't really care too much what you do on this forum.  By all means, continue to have your little BFL circle jerk, I'm sure it makes you feel better to think you're accomplishing something.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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May 26, 2013, 09:55:02 PM
 #1627

What, you mean the same people posting the same stuff over and over?  What's your point?  It's already known... there's no one knew coming to the party and you're in the newbie section, so as you're so keen on pointing out, everyone that is a newbie is a sock puppet.  

Or does that only apply when people don't agree with you?

Seriously... look in the Custom Hardware section... all the bitching is done by a handful of people, spouting the same nonsense over and over.  The amount of people complaining versus the amount of people who don't complain amounts to about 1% our customers who complain, the other 99% don't.   So again, your point?

As for caring, I said I don't care that poor little Charlie got his boat of lies sunk by facts... yet again.  Learn to read.  I only post here because it's entertaining, beyond that I don't really care too much what you do on this forum.  By all means, continue to have your little BFL circle jerk, I'm sure it makes you feel better to think you're accomplishing something.


Butterfly Labs' COO of the decade right here folks.



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May 26, 2013, 10:10:47 PM
 #1628

What, you mean the same people posting the same stuff over and over?  What's your point?  It's already known... there's no one knew coming to the party and you're in the newbie section, so as you're so keen on pointing out, everyone that is a newbie is a sock puppet. 

Or does that only apply when people don't agree with you?

Seriously... look in the Custom Hardware section... all the bitching is done by a handful of people, spouting the same nonsense over and over.  The amount of people complaining versus the amount of people who don't complain amounts to about 1% our customers who complain, the other 99% don't.   So again, your point?

As for caring, I said I don't care that poor little Charlie got his boat of lies sunk by facts... yet again.  Learn to read.  I only post here because it's entertaining, beyond that I don't really care too much what you do on this forum.  By all means, continue to have your little BFL circle jerk, I'm sure it makes you feel better to think you're accomplishing something.




Yup It's true you just don't care about bit coin talk.


You're an asshole and that is from you admitting it. I just wanted to point that out and assholes shit on their customers. However you are still a hero to many and I wish you well all the same.

However there is still this...

How many here understand how the advertising is bid for on this forum? Theymos knows you care about this forum. You just don't care about the people right? Wait a sec then why would you be bidding on impressions? Strange....
What does 7 @ 3.5 mean?



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May 26, 2013, 10:36:53 PM
 #1629

What does 7 @ 3.5 mean?

Bidding on the 7 available advertising slots here in the forums for 3.5 BTC per slot.
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May 26, 2013, 10:48:40 PM
 #1630

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You just don't care about the people right?

No, I just don't care about you.  Like I said, 99% of the people are decent human begins.  It's just people like you, Charlie, Xian, et al you who spoil it for everyone.  You are incapable of holding rational conversations or having cogent arguments, but you feel the need to let everyone know your opinion, as flawed as it is.

I mean look at poor Xian... he's so broken at this point he just keeps posting the same post over and over and then yelling the functional equivalent of "AMEN!" after other peoples posts. Heh


If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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May 26, 2013, 10:49:53 PM
 #1631

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You just don't care about the people right?

No, I just don't care about you.  Like I said, 99% of the people are decent human begins.  It's just people like you, Charlie, Xian, et al you who spoil it for everyone.  You are incapable of holding rational conversations or having cogent arguments, but you feel the need to let everyone know your opinion, as flawed as it is.

I mean look at poor Xian... he's so broken at this point he just keeps posting the same post over and over and then yelling the functional equivalent of "AMEN!" after other peoples posts. Heh







However we can agree you're still an asshole, Right?
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May 26, 2013, 11:03:28 PM
 #1632

Only to people who are assholes to me first.  I respond in kind, if you haven't noticed.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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May 26, 2013, 11:05:59 PM
 #1633

Quote
You just don't care about the people right?
I mean look at poor Xian... he's so broken at this point he just keeps posting the same post over and over and then yelling the functional equivalent of "AMEN!" after other peoples posts. Heh

 Excuse me Josh ? I am the broken one here ?

 Broken like the 200 boards you just sent back ?

 Broken like your promises over the last 11 months ?

 Keep up the great work, COO of the year !

 
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May 26, 2013, 11:08:13 PM
 #1634

Only to people who are assholes to me first.  I respond in kind, if you haven't noticed.

 Another lie ! Holy shit !

 You were an asshole on the forums. You admit this openly. I am an asshole back to you. You cancel my orders.

 Who is the asshole again ?


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May 26, 2013, 11:31:47 PM
 #1635

Only to people who are assholes to me first.  I respond in kind, if you haven't noticed.


When someone questions your actions you perceive them as assholes? Is that what you mean?

So I was an asshole for showing others here advertising in Oct and Nov of 2012 that you had something that was about to ship provided you had chips. However now that you do have chips +6months later and still have not shipped.

What about all the people that voice their opinions about how late your promises are like Xian01 that was cancelled on. You obviously found him an asshole and freed him from your responsibility to deliver his product.

Is that his punishment?

So What I don't understand is why have you held other pre-orders and let Xian01 go? If they voice their concern you would find them being an asshole as well and cancel them too?

Hypocrisy! would you agree?

All I can say is please attend to your duties and stop wasting your time entertaining your self here, when we all know that you should be manning your place at that prestigious enterprise called BFL and the impeccable public status it righteously imbues.

good day
pikeadz
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May 26, 2013, 11:38:49 PM
 #1636

Is BFL a scam?

Yes, they just advertise so much here that they haven't received a "scammer" tag yet.  Stay away.
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May 26, 2013, 11:59:16 PM
 #1637

MooC, why don't you dig back in time and look at my first reply to you and look at what it was in response to.  Yes, you were an asshole and I responded in kind.

Yes, Xian, you too were and asshole and I responded in kind.

I never start out being an asshole.  If you are rational and polite, I will respond in a rational and polite manner.  If you are a spittle flinging cretin, you get a rude response.  If you get a rude response, you need to take a long, hard look in the mirror and ask yourself why someone responded to you in that manner.

Quote
What about all the people that voice their opinions about how late your promises are like Xian01 that was cancelled on. You obviously found him an asshole and freed him from your responsibility to deliver his product.

There are plenty of examples of people voicing there opinions and being negative about BFL, both here and on the BFL forums.  For some reason, they are able to act like adults and converse in a civilized manner.  Xian, on the other hand, decided to go full tantrum mode and pitch a fit.  I ignored it for many weeks, giving him many chances to settle down and he chose to just amp up the lies and misinformation.  It was time to cut him loose.  People like him cost more to maintain than they are worth as customers, thus we cut ties with him. Now he's free to fling spittle and foam all he wants without the encumbrance of being a hypocrite.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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May 27, 2013, 12:06:00 AM
 #1638

MooC, why don't you dig back in time and look at my first reply to you and look at what it was in response to.  Yes, you were an asshole and I responded in kind.

Yes, Xian, you too were and asshole and I responded in kind.

I never start out being an asshole.  If you are rational and polite, I will respond in a rational and polite manner.  If you are a spittle flinging cretin, you get a rude response.  If you get a rude response, you need to take a long, hard look in the mirror and ask yourself why someone responded to you in that manner.

Quote
What about all the people that voice their opinions about how late your promises are like Xian01 that was cancelled on. You obviously found him an asshole and freed him from your responsibility to deliver his product.

There are plenty of examples of people voicing there opinions and being negative about BFL, both here and on the BFL forums.  For some reason, they are able to act like adults and converse in a civilized manner.  Xian, on the other hand, decided to go full tantrum mode and pitch a fit.  I ignored it for many weeks, giving him many chances to settle down and he chose to just amp up the lies and misinformation.  It was time to cut him loose.  People like him cost more to maintain than they are worth as customers, thus we cut ties with him. Now he's free to fling spittle and foam all he wants without the encumbrance of being a hypocrite.


I hope Xian01 calls a lawyer for putting his order on hold and you can be an asshole to the judge. As for your customers I wish them all the luck.

You need to go back to work as I said before. BFL's success is tied directly to others apathy.
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May 27, 2013, 12:07:24 AM
 #1639

total bullshit, how many orders are there now? so many on ebay for sale
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May 27, 2013, 12:11:12 AM
 #1640

Since people have requested a recap, I'd decided to repost this gem:

Alright since this thread has grown so large, I think we need a recap of what has happened.

First BFL promised magic stuff:



Thus they took lots of money for said stuff:



Then they found out that ASIC development is hard:



And we had to wait a very long time:



When we asked nicely about the delays here was BFL's response:



Which has made me a sad panda:



I post a list of questions that you could have nicely answered:


And here is your response:



The revolution begins with the mind and ends with the heart. Knowledge for all, accessible to all and shared by all
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