Butterflylabs Huge SCAM

[Inaba]

I can't thank you enough for this response of yours. Absolutely everything I need.

You're quite welcome, good luck!  Please be sure to report back how long the belly laughs go on when you finish your story in front of actual legal council.  Perhaps they'll at least have the courtesy to wait until you're out of the building before busting a gut, though.

Also, if you don't mind, could you update the OP with the current tally of how much money you've spent on your little tantrum against BFL.  By my count it's at least $1700 so far.

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[MooC Tals]

Yeah, that video is great.  Looks like the crack head brother of Bryan Micon (that's kind of an oxymoron though, I admit)... Real legit!  I'd trust him!

What's even funnier about that video is the fact that he couldn't even understand the quote referenced was in response to Mooc Tals failure to understand how furniture works, not about delays to the product.  I mean, I freaking quoted the question in my response and the guy somehow still missed it.  That inspires lots of confidence.

lol
Awe they misunderstood what you said! Sorry to hear that.

Is that what you got out of that video? Not the fact you scorned customers publicly? That is what I received from that.

Trusting a crackhead is quite difficult. You would be surprised what people put their trust in.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=207331.msg2279899#msg2279899 << Check this out.

[trichome]

I luckily paid with paypal and filed a claim to get a refund with the allowed time.  They didn't answer a single email from my order date until i filed the claim then i got like 3 emails asking what was up and 1 asking to cancel the claim....  Thank God i did not! and i have never seen a company treat customers the way they do!

Why didn't you just ask BFL for a refund directly?

Sry i wasnt clear made a late night post, i contacted them daily until i was a few days away from not being able to file a chargeback via paypal (btw have never had to do and hope i don't again).  Im glad i did file becuase im sure they would not have gotten back to me in the 3 days before i could not file a claim..

[trichome]

There is nothing new here.  These are all old allegations

I know there is nothing new here but as a member posted up a little bit, he thanked that this post was here as he was going to make an order....im sure due to all the advertising ect and false claims....

[Xian01]

I can't thank you enough for this response of yours. Absolutely everything I need.

You're quite welcome, good luck!  Please be sure to report back how long the belly laughs go on when you finish your story in front of actual legal council.  Perhaps they'll at least have the courtesy to wait until you're out of the building before busting a gut, though.

Also, if you don't mind, could you update the OP with the current tally of how much money you've spent on your little tantrum against BFL.  By my count it's at least $1700 so far.

 $1,700 is me just getting started, Josh.

[jordaninthesky]

MooC, why don't you dig back in time and look at my first reply to you and look at what it was in response to.  Yes, you were an asshole and I responded in kind.

Yes, Xian, you too were and asshole and I responded in kind.

I never start out being an asshole.  If you are rational and polite, I will respond in a rational and polite manner.  If you are a spittle flinging cretin, you get a rude response.  If you get a rude response, you need to take a long, hard look in the mirror and ask yourself why someone responded to you in that manner.

What about all the people that voice their opinions about how late your promises are like Xian01 that was cancelled on. You obviously found him an asshole and freed him from your responsibility to deliver his product.

There are plenty of examples of people voicing there opinions and being negative about BFL, both here and on the BFL forums.  For some reason, they are able to act like adults and converse in a civilized manner.  Xian, on the other hand, decided to go full tantrum mode and pitch a fit.  I ignored it for many weeks, giving him many chances to settle down and he chose to just amp up the lies and misinformation.  It was time to cut him loose.  People like him cost more to maintain than they are worth as customers, thus we cut ties with him. Now he's free to fling spittle and foam all he wants without the encumbrance of being a hypocrite.

What about the part where you ripped on AVALON and other ASIC competitors, lead a ton of people into purchasing their dreams for you, and you trailing them on for months and months on end?  You say you are sorry, but you are still doing the same routine.  You are still telling people you will ship to them in 2 months, when you haven't even dug 3 days into last years orders.  There's a reasonable time when you should realize that you are not going to fulfill the production you are promising and you have to stop taking pre-orders.  That was last year.  When you failed everyone a second time.  But you keep failing.  Intentionally as it appears.

So I point out how you introduced yourself on the stage as an asshole first, and that contradicts what you are saying.  Is this why you retracted my orders?  Or may it had something to do with my antagonizing your ability to keep track of wafers.

Just wondering.  I figured it's pretty reasonable to be upset with you by the time you use the same excuse a second time (nearly a year later nonetheless).

I'm allowed to be upset with the performance of your company, and how it endorses your predatory nature.  You've made trolls out of potential buyers and BTC advocates.  They don't come from nowhere.  They are the people you've alienated with your reckless antics.

[Quicker_357]

The current generation of hardware doesn't really any other uses, unless you have another alt coin or application that does double round SHA256.

[Rampion]

I can't thank you enough for this response of yours. Absolutely everything I need.

You're quite welcome, good luck!  Please be sure to report back how long the belly laughs go on when you finish your story in front of actual legal council.  Perhaps they'll at least have the courtesy to wait until you're out of the building before busting a gut, though.

Also, if you don't mind, could you update the OP with the current tally of how much money you've spent on your little tantrum against BFL.  By my count it's at least $1700 so far.

You are spending way more to drive more and more people into your pre-order scheme.

It's comforting to see people with values spending their hard-earned money to warn newbies about this situation.

[btcshops]

Me too very much disappointed with there products

[bitwhizz]

SUE BFL

[Xian01]

Check these out.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=217104.0

The ASICMiner team just made their USB sticks available in blocks of 50.

[chanson]

But you sold one on the 8th? You're a piece of human waste Josh

https://picasaweb.google.com/104878918886305681953/ProofOfPurchase?authuser=0&feat=directlink#5866587391835308050

That screenshot is what cloudhashing.com offered as proof that cloudhashing is not a scam. I'm inclined to take Josh's word over that of a suspected scammer.

Edit: Josh is also correct that the order dates get adjusted to be the date payment was received, so cloudhashing's screenshot could be fine.

I just checked and my order does indeed list date paid rather than date ordered. My sister and I went in together on an order. She decided to back out a few weeks ago, so I had to request a refund. But then I regretted it and decided to go it alone and I sent a second email requesting that the refund-request be ignored. A few days later I got two emails, the first saying they canceled my order and the second saying they hadn't seen the anti-cancel request before it was too late; but offering me to reorder and they would correct the date to get me back to my original place in the shipping queue. I just checked and the invoice of the reorder does now list my original pay date rather than the reorder date.

BFL customer support are very courteous and helpful and turn around has been less than a week for all my emails. I think the people that rant and rave don't actually interact with them.

[slashnp]

Maybe scam, but I've seen one coming to Serbia 

[charleshoskinson]

That screenshot is what cloudhashing.com offered as proof that cloudhashing is not a scam. I'm inclined to take Josh's word over that of a suspected scammer.

Josh could have simply said they never purchased a minirig. Instead he made an argument about when they paid for the rig. Thus Cloudhashing gets a pass in my book.

[chanson]

That screenshot is what cloudhashing.com offered as proof that cloudhashing is not a scam. I'm inclined to take Josh's word over that of a suspected scammer.

Josh could have simply said they never purchased a minirig. Instead he made an argument about when they paid for the rig. Thus Cloudhashing gets a pass in my book.

Yes, I saw that later and edited my comment. I also checked my orders and the date paid is the date listed there, so I agree absolutely no smoking gun against cloudhashing.

[charleshoskinson]

Am I the only person who thinks it's wrong to sell a product that doesn't exist? They knew the minirig couldn't exist with their current hardware specs yet continued to accept money. I understand the argument for just tripling up a 500 GH rig, but then I could list  50,000 GH unit under that logic. They still list the minirig in the product catalog. I continue to assert that out of stock does not equal removed from market.

[chanson]

What is relevant is your promise for 1 watt per GH/s. That didn't happen. It was a lie. The ever moving shipping dates.  

I think it's completely incorrect to allege deception/lies.

Those were their design projections, and it didn't work out that way. They've always been clear that they are developing a product, not that they have product in hand. Everyone could and should have easily known that they were making a purchase at the research and development stage before ordering. Especially anyone ordering more than a few hundred dollars worth could and should have known exactly what they were getting into. And BFL seems to provide refunds with very little friction, so nobody should be here that doesn't want to be.

I appreciate how open BFL is about their progress and setbacks. You seem to be venting. I think you should step back and decide whether you want your BFL product or not. If you do, chill out. If you don't, refund and walk away.

[charleshoskinson]

Those were their design projections, and it didn't work out that way

They built and accepted money for a product queue that relied completely on that speculation. It was irresponsible to infer you could build something without a prototype in lab to confirm it. I am not venting. I am pointing out both inexperience and borderline consumer fraud. I should not claim I can build something, accept millions of dollars for it, hold on to the money for months promising to deliver without any justification for the dates and then deliver a product that is 600 percent off spec.

How could BFL claim that the products will ship in November when they didn't even have chips from the fabricator back then? If they did have the chips, then they would have known the minirig was impossible to build as advertised due to power consumption. So Josh said, we are shipping soon, when they didn't even have chips. Can't you understand the dishonesty?  

Everyone could and should have easily known that they were making a purchase at the research and development stage before ordering

This is just ignorance. You cannot make assumptions for the entire market about their ordering behavior. BFL never once stated how far along they were in R&D when preorders started. With the shipping dates they originally suggested many in the ASIC industry would have inferred that BFL had a working prototype in lab and were focusing on optimization, software and Q&A.

[chanson]

Those were their design projections, and it didn't work out that way

They built and accepted money for a product queue that relied completely on that speculation. It was irresponsible to infer you could build something without a prototype in lab to confirm it. I am not venting. I am pointing out both inexperience and borderline consumer fraud. I cannot claim I can build something, accept millions of dollars for it, hold on to the money for months promising to deliver without any justification for the dates and then deliver a product that is 600 percent off spec.

How could BFL claim that the products will ship in November when they didn't even have chips from the fabricator back then? If they did have the chips, then they would have known the minirig was impossible to build as advertised due to power consumption. So Josh said, we are shipping soon, when they didn't even have chips. Can't you understand the dishonesty?  

Well, this is the reality: so far BFL easily refunds your order and lets anyone easily walk away whole at any time (in the USD sense, I understand some people are disappointed because they wish they could be whole in the BTC sense given the currency appreciation).

So, everyone can freely choose to either walk away or stay in line for delivery of the GH/s they ordered at the price they paid.

So...

They didn't ship in November. If shipping last November is important to you, walk away.

The didn't hit 1 J/GH. If you care about the 1 J/GH, walk away.

If you think Josh is being an asshole, and Josh not being an asshole is important to you, walk away.

Personally, it looks to me that they are close to shipping and all the other ASIC stuff out there is lower performance, even less existent, or extremely more expensive.

[charleshoskinson]

Well, this is the reality: so far BFL easily refunds your order and lets anyone easily walk away whole at any time

What about the people who paid in bitcoins and would lose over 3000 dollars getting a refund on a 5 GH unit? What the fuck do you have to say to them? You're a tool man.

They made a rational choice when they ordered and stayed because they were told over and over again that it's shipping soon. While they watched the bitcoin price skyrocket and the sudden sadness of forever losing their money. Tell me, what is BFL's stellar customer service going to do about them?