Obama announces stronger action on U. S. power plants

[Kenchaa]

That's a logical fallacy:

Just because something is present at a small concentration doesn't mean that nearly doubling its concentration won't have consequences.

As an example: The stress hormone cortisol is normally present at a concentration of 250 nM, much lower than the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere. According to you argument, we should not pay attention to cortisol, because of its low conc.

However, doubling the cortisol concentration has serious consequences, among others a constantly-stressed state and weight gain.

So, if you want to advocate against AGW, please use other arguments, but not that CO2 is present at low concentration and, therefore, of no consequence.

Why should it be more expensive to use domestic energy than to import it from the middle east because that is the only affect this is going to have? Small domestic coal power plants will be shut down killing American mining jobs, and they will be replaced by foreign oil imports. Just like moving all of our production to China, it has no net impact on the climate. All that is accomplished is further destroy the domestic economy.

Anybody that works for a living knows this is grounds for impeachment. The only one that benefits are the oil sheiks that donated to get Obama elected and the media which gets paid to disseminate his propaganda.

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[rio3232]

That program amounts to pennies out of the Middle Class paycheck.

There are estimates that it will drive energy costs up to $0.30 per kilowatthour. Currently, we pay around $0.10 kilowathour (depending on where you live). This means that the price of electricity for the average person may triple. I pay about $100 a month in the summer and $300 a month in the winter. I can not afford $300 and $900 a month. And this does not even consider the cost of goods that will increase as production costs go up. It might not impact energy prices as drastically as is being estimated, but we are talking much more than "pennies" out of the pocket of the middle class.

[Kenchaa]

There are estimates that it will drive energy costs up to $0.30 per kilowatthour. Currently, we pay around $0.10 kilowathour (depending on where you live). This means that the price of electricity for the average person may triple. I pay about $100 a month in the summer and $300 a month in the winter. I can not afford $300 and $900 a month. And this does not even consider the cost of goods that will increase as production costs go up. It might not impact energy prices as drastically as is being estimated, but we are talking much more than "pennies" out of the pocket of the middle class.

The coal industry produces over 41,500 middle class jobs in PA alone. I guess you think that will be a miniscule loss to the middle (formerly working) class.

[Riniojet]

That program amounts to pennies out of the Middle Class paycheck.

Pennies here pennies there.

Counting sales tax, for goods and services purchased, and then withholdings, how much to you suppose all of these "penny" taxes add up to out of ones paycheck? My guess is 25 - 35%.

[umzza]

This guy is completely hellbent on destroying the country. There is simply no arguing that. It is a fact. Whoever voted for this clown should be deported after the next election

[KriszDev]

That program amounts to pennies out of the Middle Class paycheck.

Pennies add up to dollars.
And this would mean more pennies to assist others plus the base raise in their own utility bills.

[KriszDev]

You're asking how people will Afford cost hikes that haven't happened? Guess it depends if they occur and how large they are.

I don't think they should occur at all given the lie that Obama is pushing about the amount of CO2 and where its coming from.

[rio3232]

The coal industry produces over 41,500 middle class jobs in PA alone. I guess you think that will be a miniscule loss to the middle (formerly working) class.

It might make a dent with the direct and indirect employment situation caused by this, but that it not the issue. The issue is the cost of energy should it skyrocket like Obama promised in 2008. The middle class can not take anymore hits to their expenses. That is what will cause the biggest loss to the middle class.

[godlyitems]

That program amounts to pennies out of the Middle Class paycheck.

Can you provide a link for this?

I want to believe this too. Will your higher AC cost usage in San Antonio be just extra pennies per month? Has your utility provider confirmed this?

[Namviet]

This guy is completely hellbent on destroying the country. There is simply no arguing that. It is a fact. Whoever voted for this clown should be deported after the next election

People say Obama is stupid. No he isn't. Hes extremely intelligent. The problem is he's a traitor who is hell bent on doing as much damage as possible to the United States before he leaves office. He's succeeding. In Obamas defense he told us he was going to do all these things and the idiot voters still voted for him........ twice. This isn't Obamas fault. Its our fault for allowing him to do this.
If another dem is voted in, everyone reading this has no business complaining about illegals, your right to own a firearm being removed, your doubled energy bills, the economy, getting laid off, your inability to find new work, the fact that you cant afford a home or even thermonuclear war. I say everyone because dumb people don't know they are dumb that's why they need to be informed of the issues by those of us who are informed before they vote. If that doesn't happen then those of us who are informed aren't doing a good enough job in that area.

[rodzimajid]

President Barack Obama challenged America and the world to step up efforts to fight global warming on Monday at the formal unveiling of his administration's controversial, ramped-up plan to cut carbon emissions from U.S. power plants.

Declaring climate change the greatest threat facing the world, Obama said the regulation requiring the power sector to cut its emissions by 32 percent from 2005 levels by 2030 would reduce Americans' energy bills and improve the health of vulnerable populations nationwide.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/03/us-usa-climatechange-idUSKCN0Q820I20150803

Sticking to the facts, it is accurate to state that today, carbon dioxide (CO2) makes up less than 0.04% of the Earth's atmosphere. It is also factual to state that carbon dioxide is a natural organic compound that is absolutely necessary for life on this planet! Here's a pie chart produced by the National Weather Service (as unbiased as I could find):



OK, all this focus in on an essential atmospheric compound that makes up less than 0.04%.... But, today's modern coal-fueled power plants have state-of-the-art electrostatic scrubbers on them that have reduced emissions to such a healthy point that no American city is plagued with the dirty air we used to see in so many cities, like our big city of Denver, Colorado, back in the 1970's.

Now, what do you imagine the probable effect is going to be on your UTILITY BILLS after Obama has bankrupted the entire U. S. coal industry? In favor of what? Solar? Wind? Biomass? None of those can even begin to make up the loss of coal, and the costs would be stupid-expensive. Natural gas? Sure, we have enough of it, but what do you imagine the cost of natural gas will skyrocket to without coal to offset it?

Obama should have announced a new initiative to develop hydrogen fusion power, which would give us unlimited, non-polluting energy from fusion processes using SEA WATER, and continue burning clean coal in plants with the most advanced scrubbers until we have mastered fusion. Instead, he's throwing this new, expensive burden on top of us, and at a time when it will cost all of us, directly and indirectly, a lot more of our hard-earned money. But, hey, we've recovered from the Recession, and everybody's awash in big money now... right...?!

There are several news articles on this.. Its about emission standards..

[rodzimajid]

You all do know that LA has cleaner air today than it did in the 1970s???

[redandblack]

There are several news articles on this.. Its about emission standards..

Yes, it is about emission standards. They've gone up and up over the years, but electrostatic scrubber technology developed for coal-burning electricity plants in our cities have kept up and today it is difficult to find any city in the country with truly polluted air. Where you do find it, it's still usually due to inversion layers you find in natural "bowls" below mountain ranges, like in Phoenix and Los Angeles.

And, yes, there are severe pollution problems in some parts of China and India. China and India need to do something constructive to battle their own pollution problems, but how does Obama's campaign to bankrupt the coal industry and jack up utility rates for Americans help pollution problems in China and India?! The United Nations may love this big crackdown, but American utility ratepayers definitely will NOT....

[steve.reimer]

The worst President in history just got worse. Water vapor is the most common greenhouse gas, and it ain't close. I suppose we will have to extend government power over that too ?

Meanwhile, such as NY State was covered in ice 20,000 years ago. Thank God we have a planet that warms ......... and cools.

[morin]

Can you provide a link for this?

I want to believe this too. Will your higher AC cost usage in San Antonio be just extra pennies per month? Has your utility provider confirmed this?

El Paso Electric just announced a large rate hike. How high is something they haven't said yet.

[redandblack]

El Paso Electric just announced a large rate hike. How high is something they haven't said yet.

I used to live in El Paso a long time ago, and even then they had the highest electricity rates in the State of Texas because El Paso was a part of the network that got its power from that gigantic nuclear power plant, Palo Verde, in Phoenix.

Nuke power plants are incredibly expensive, and the "pollution" possibilities? Ask people who used to live in Fukushima, Japan, or in Chernobyl, Ukraine.... They cost a fortune to build, they cost a fortune to operate, they cost a fortune to maintain, and, when it's finally time to decommission the damned things, they cost another bloody fortune to get rid of....

[Lugaticaa]

The Supreme Court just finished slapping the crap out of Barack Obama with his last set of Executive Orders on the power plants. They realized in their decision should Barack Obama have his way that the nation would realize a short fall of energy. As many of you know, I am in the Energy Business. The last two winters straight the United States BARELY avoided black outs during the heavy winter storms. Our energy grid was at its absolute max with no more coal plants to bring online since Barack Obama forced the closure of so many already. If this happens thousands will die a cold lonely death.

This is pure Liberal idiocy.

[tiffany8]

Yes, it is about emission standards. They've gone up and up over the years, but electrostatic scrubber technology developed for coal-burning electricity plants in our cities have kept up and today it is difficult to find any city in the country with truly polluted air. Where you do find it, it's still usually due to inversion layers you find in natural "bowls" below mountain ranges, like in Phoenix and Los Angeles.

And, yes, there are severe pollution problems in some parts of China and India. China and India need to do something constructive to battle their own pollution problems, but how does Obama's campaign to bankrupt the coal industry and jack up utility rates for Americans help pollution problems in China and India?! The United Nations may love this big crackdown, but American utility ratepayers definitely will NOT....

In a way, Obama doing this will ensure a new supply of conservatives. Nothing makes a working mom vote republican faster than writing out a check for electricity that is twice what she was paying per month before especially when she was barely scraping by before. Little Johnny is gonna have to go to Disneyworld some other time.

[tomor]

I may have to step up my getting off the grid plans.

[peterson33]

Can you provide a link for this?
I want to believe this too. Will your higher AC cost usage in San Antonio be just extra pennies per month? Has your utility provider confirmed this?

You clearly don't get what I was posting about. Perhaps you should read my post again and also read the post I was responding to.