old

[usagi]

old

[1713930581]

1713930581

[Deprived]

For each share of MOVETO.FUND that you return, I will transfer to you:

Believe you may have forgotten to change MOVETO.FUND to NYAN.B when you copy-pasted/edited cyclo's post.

[pyrkne]

To clarify, the two other NYAN funds (A and C) will remain active?

Was NYAN.B just in the unfortunate middle ground between A and C?

[burnside]

"Holders of NYAN.B are guaranteed second claim (after holders of NYAN.A) to any holdings, bitcoins or other assets of NYAN."

You can't shut down B without wiping out C first and giving B all of it's assets.

After which you will NOT screw the people that were not first to read your post.  You will SPLIT THE ASSETS EVENLY.

[Deprived]

"Holders of NYAN.B are guaranteed second claim (after holders of NYAN.A) to any holdings, bitcoins or other assets of NYAN."

You can't shut down B without wiping out C first and giving B all of it's assets.

After which you will NOT screw the people that were not first to read your post.  You will SPLIT THE ASSETS EVENLY.

Well according to usagi's spreadsheet nyan.b actually HAS a nav of 1.0 already.  But that's using usgai's "real value" numbers - not actual market prices.  Irrespective of whether using usagi's own (in my view imaginary) numbers is valid during operation - it's definitely NOT valid at close-down when only realisable value matters.

e.g. valuing OBSI.HRPT at 0.1 when it trades around 0.02 isn't appropriate if the fund's shutting down.

Obviously at this stage the question of how usagi values securities becomes VERY important.  If those values are deliberately inflated then it would no longer just be misleading the bond-holders, it would be attempting to scam them by giving them assets worth less than what they were entitled to (which potentially includes all the assets of nyan.c and the holdings of nyan itself - at present 160 nyan.a shares and 67 BMF shares).

If any investor in nyan.b has serious doubts about usagi's valuation of assets then you really should go make a scam thread about it before the assets start disappearing/getting handed out.  It's usagi's obligation to ensure that nyan.b assets either have a value of 1.0 or more OR have a nav lower than that having received all assets from nyan.c and nyan.  Valuations such as OBSI.HRPT at 0.1 (the price it was SOLD for when it paid interest and updates were given) are clearly ludicrous.  Same for the valuation of MOVE.TO (where it's valued at more than it's being liquidated for).

Also, given MOVE.TO is being liquidated by sharing assets, shouldnt usgai be reclaiming assets for the MOVE.TO shares BEFORE announcing what nyan.b has at the end?

It all smells to me like the house of cards is collapsing and usagi is just trying to bail out as fast as possible without even a token effort to honour its obligations to its investors.

One thing which IS right - is that the contract only entitles holders of nyan.b to assets, there's no commitment to any sort of orderly closing down method.  That's the fault of investors who don't bother reading contracts - like the poor sods invested in CPA who agreed to a contract which specifically states that usagi can change the contract however it wants and make those changes binding without any need for a shareholder vote.

[ldrgn]

(although it cannot detect scams, which seem to be pretty much everywhere)

Aren't you in the insurance business?  Shouldn't you have some sophisticated anti-scam detection to take the slack from any indicators or algorithms?

[burnside]

"Holders of NYAN.B are guaranteed second claim (after holders of NYAN.A) to any holdings, bitcoins or other assets of NYAN."

You can't shut down B without wiping out C first and giving B all of it's assets.

After which you will NOT screw the people that were not first to read your post.  You will SPLIT THE ASSETS EVENLY.

Well according to usagi's spreadsheet nyan.b actually HAS a nav of 1.0 already.  But that's using usgai's "real value" numbers - not actual market prices.  Irrespective of whether using usagi's own (in my view imaginary) numbers is valid during operation - it's definitely NOT valid at close-down when only realisable value matters.

e.g. valuing OBSI.HRPT at 0.1 when it trades around 0.02 isn't appropriate if the fund's shutting down.

Obviously at this stage the question of how usagi values securities becomes VERY important.  If those values are deliberately inflated then it would no longer just be misleading the bond-holders, it would be attempting to scam them by giving them assets worth less than what they were entitled to (which potentially includes all the assets of nyan.c and the holdings of nyan itself - at present 160 nyan.a shares and 67 BMF shares).

That's the problem, I hold a chunk of NYAN.B.  I went through the list of assets and couldn't find any that I want, or that weren't tanking.  It was then that I realized just how screwed the next guy in line behind me would be.  That's not cool.

Usagi.

1) You plug in realistic real market values on the assets.  (I'm ok with 5 day averages)
2) You shift enough out of NYAN.C to bring the NAV up to 1.0.
3) You come up with an algorithm to split the assets evenly.  Doing this first come first served is completely unacceptable.

Friend for life indeed. 

[Bitcoin Oz]

This looks like an abortion and the values usagi is using dont represent true market value in most cases.

Assets need to be moved out of C and C shut down before B is. Only then can you equally disburse assets.

[Lethos]

I warned you. I said, do not sell your shares below 0.99. If you did, you made a mistake. And it is entirely YOUR fault you did so.

Simple solution: Bid Wall at 0.99. Why aren't you?
As a shareholder, if you want to wind down any portion of Nyan while at the moment it can operate, why not just put up a bid wall if you feel so strongly about the above statement of yours.
If your reason for needing to wind down is more of your assets you control are becoming unreliable or toxic, why would I want them either?

[Bitcoin Oz]

I warned you. I said, do not sell your shares below 0.99. If you did, you made a mistake. And it is entirely YOUR fault you did so.

Simple solution: Bid Wall at 0.99. Why aren't you?
As a shareholder, if you want to wind down any portion of Nyan while at the moment it can operate, why not just put up a bid wall if you feel so strongly about the above statement of yours.
If your reason for needing to wind down is more of your assets you control are becoming unreliable or toxic, why would I want them either?

The fact there might not be enough non toxic shares for everyone is a recipe for disaster ans further "scammer" threads so it seems like a poor decision over just placing a bid wall.

[Puppet]

Its always useful to have some meaningful numbers. So here is an update:

[burnside]

NEWS: This offer has been closed pending motion 155.

Shares have been returned to the 2 people who sent-in already.

Please read the FAQ in the OP for details.

Ugh, you tell me to chill, then you do this?  

You asked about my attitude and telling you what to do.  Well, I'm a shareholder.  I have the right to tell you to abide by your contract.  I have the right to tell you to not screw me and the other shareholders over.  You have a fiduciary duty to protect the value of the assets you sold me.  No, I don't want your asset swap.  You have not put up a motion, you are not allowed to cherry pick assets you want to give to your bestest buddies.

I'll admit, I'm pretty peeved at you.  Until this announcement I respected you and I thought you were one of the few that I could trust with my hard-earned BTC.  Friend for life, right?  If you're going to be my 'friend' you'll stop parting out the asset unfairly, and you'll go back to operating NYAN the way you told us you would operate it.  Follow your contract.  Follow through with your promises.  Prove to the rest of us that you're not just another scammer.  Don't let CPA (which I did NOT invest in) tank NYAN.

I dunno what else to say.  

[greyhawk]

Welcome citizen.
The Usagi is on your side.
The Usagi is not your enemy.
The Usagi will take care of you.
There is safety in the Usagi.
The Usagi is always right.
The Usagi will decide what is best for you.
Only by accepting the will of the Usagi can you truly be free.
Do not question the Usagi.
The Usagi has only your best interests in mind.
Always trust your Usagi.
The Usagi will never lie to you.
The Usagi only does what is necessary to keep you safe, happy, and productive.
Thank you citizen.

[Bitcoin Oz]

I warned you. I said, do not sell your shares below 0.99. If you did, you made a mistake. And it is entirely YOUR fault you did so.

Simple solution: Bid Wall at 0.99. Why aren't you?

Because I did, and I am, but I cannot support the entire GLBSE market out of my pocket. Check it out:
2012-09-08 2263   
2012-09-15 2109
2012-09-23 2078
2012-09-23 2078
2012-09-29 1543

I bought back 700 bitcoins worth of NYAN.B. That's $8,600 US. But it's not enough. The trolls have destroyed my ability to do business here. Even though I bought back over 700 shares in a matter of a couple weeks, people are not happy.

It is impossible to close down a fund like this at 1 NAV in a crashing market, but I am doing so. Oh and let's not forget the game of minefield I have to play because 2 out of 3 securities we invest in are defaulting. Is that my fault? Uhh, no. Sure, the trolls say it is, but trolls will be trolls.

As a shareholder, if you want to wind down any portion of Nyan while at the moment it can operate, why not just put up a bid wall if you feel so strongly about the above statement of yours.
If your reason for needing to wind down is more of your assets you control are becoming unreliable or toxic, why would I want them either?

The choice is yours. That's the point, you have a choice. And it's your choice. You can wait for a buy back at NAV or you can trade in for shares. I can't dump 2500 coins on the market at bid in 3 weeks. That's dumb. Anyone who is asking me to do that does not understand how markets work. You cannot unwind a fund that took 2 months to grow in 3 weeks in a crashing market. As I said; we're currently in the black. Our contract is very specific. We publish all our holdings. I don't even take management fees on NYAN. So if the market crashes, there isn't much I can do. I'm not superman.

I have to admit this market is fucking awful. Nearly the whole deposit sector has defaulted and these are people who were supposedly respected community members. I dont think anyone can perform when a lot of the market is corrupt and dishonest.

[burnside]

I have to admit this market is fucking awful. Nearly the whole deposit sector has defaulted and these are people who were supposedly respected community members. I dont think anyone can perform when a lot of the market is corrupt and dishonest.

I'll second that.  It's not that it's closing down, it's HOW they're closing it down.  Allowing the first in line to cherry pick from the asset pool (half of which are roughly zero value on GLBSE right now) just feels wrong. 

Code:

Should NYAN.B (and NYAN.C) use a "Real-Market-Value" column (based on analysis) to value it's securities, or just pull 5-day average market price off GLBSE?
(note, if the 5 day average price formula reports zero, we would substitute the weekly weighted average from stochastically.com).

For those of you voting on the motion, please do not give permission to price things at whatever CPA wants.  There are CPA ads all over stochastically.com and I suspect it's a wholly owned Usagi, INC site.

I don't mind waiting.  Even before this announcement I sent an offer via email to Usagi and said I'd wait.  Again, I just want to see things being done by the book.

Man, I usually try to stay out of the drama too.  How'd I get sucked into this?   

[Lethos]

I warned you. I said, do not sell your shares below 0.99. If you did, you made a mistake. And it is entirely YOUR fault you did so.

Simple solution: Bid Wall at 0.99. Why aren't you?

Because I did, and I am, but I cannot support the entire GLBSE market out of my pocket. Check it out:
2012-09-08 2263   
2012-09-15 2109
2012-09-23 2078
2012-09-23 2078
2012-09-29 1543

I bought back 700 bitcoins worth of NYAN.B. That's $8,600 US. But it's not enough. The trolls have destroyed my ability to do business here. Even though I bought back over 700 shares in a matter of a couple weeks, people are not happy.

It is impossible to close down a fund like this at 1 NAV in a crashing market, but I am doing so. Oh and let's not forget the game of minefield I have to play because 2 out of 3 securities we invest in are defaulting. Is that my fault? Uhh, no. Sure, the trolls say it is, but trolls will be trolls.

As a shareholder, if you want to wind down any portion of Nyan while at the moment it can operate, why not just put up a bid wall if you feel so strongly about the above statement of yours.
If your reason for needing to wind down is more of your assets you control are becoming unreliable or toxic, why would I want them either?

The choice is yours. That's the point, you have a choice. And it's your choice. You can wait for a buy back at NAV or you can trade in for shares. I can't dump 2500 coins on the market at bid in 3 weeks. That's dumb. Anyone who is asking me to do that does not understand how markets work. You cannot unwind a fund that took 2 months to grow in 3 weeks in a crashing market. As I said; we're currently in the black. Our contract is very specific. We publish all our holdings. I don't even take management fees on NYAN. So if the market crashes, there isn't much I can do. I'm not superman.

That is proof you are buying back shares, which I do see and see as a good thing, but it's not proof of what you quoted me of saying, a bid wall at 0.99Btc. Buying back of shares certainly has speeded up in the past week. Not sure yet if that is a good thing, was this what caused a bit of panic? Something else?
I've tried to sell my shares for weeks, making reasonable offers usually between 0.95 to 0.99 (even went low as 0.9 once) but they never get bought, the ones that do are always ones below me, selling cheaper. My fault perhaps, maybe I should of just sold at a lower price.

I only have 11 shares, I'd like to sell them, but I know it's stupid to sell too low because I know who's buying them on the cheap, it's not other investors it's you Usagi most the time. Only another fund manager or the asset owner themselves could afford to buy up 700Btc in a few weeks, after all you regularly deal with these large amounts of Btc. I don't blame you for that, I would most likely do the same thing in your position, but don't try make out there is a bid wall at 0.99 when I'm just not seeing that evidence when I should.

It is my choice.

[MPOE-PR]

This looks like an abortion and the values usagi is using dont represent true market value in most cases.

Assets need to be moved out of C and C shut down before B is. Only then can you equally disburse assets.

Actually, this is wrong. A needs to be liquidated first, all the investors fully repaid. Then B can be the new senior tranche, it can be liquidated and investors fully repaid. That leaves C (prolly bankrupt). Liquidation can't start up the CDO chain. The only way to unwind these is from the top tranche down.