[NEWS] Bit4x.com - First FOREX accepts bitcoin! - 1:1000 Leverage!!!

[Shadow383]

My scam-detector is showing "scam detected" 

Yup - yours and everyone elses.

Mine is showing "maybe", but then again I think mine's broken.  I've lost money to:

Some dick on bitcoin-otc over a year ago
SIN
Bitscalper
Pirate
GLBSE
Bitfloor
and probably a couple others I'm forgetting at the moment

Are you interested in buying a bridge? 

[1713514105]

1713514105

[1713514105]

1713514105

[notme]

My scam-detector is showing "scam detected" 

Yup - yours and everyone elses.

Mine is showing "maybe", but then again I think mine's broken.  I've lost money to:

Some dick on bitcoin-otc over a year ago
SIN
Bitscalper
Pirate
GLBSE
Bitfloor
and probably a couple others I'm forgetting at the moment

Are you interested in buying a bridge? 

It depends... where does this bridge go?

[mobodick]

My scam-detector is showing "scam detected" 

Yup - yours and everyone elses.

Mine is showing "maybe", but then again I think mine's broken.  I've lost money to:

Some dick on bitcoin-otc over a year ago
SIN
Bitscalper
Pirate
GLBSE
Bitfloor
and probably a couple others I'm forgetting at the moment

Are you interested in buying a bridge? 

It depends... where does this bridge go?

Yes, that's the wrong question.
A good question would be something like: "Is the bridge smoking or burning in any way?" or something like that

[notme]

My scam-detector is showing "scam detected" 

Yup - yours and everyone elses.

Mine is showing "maybe", but then again I think mine's broken.  I've lost money to:

Some dick on bitcoin-otc over a year ago
SIN
Bitscalper
Pirate
GLBSE
Bitfloor
and probably a couple others I'm forgetting at the moment

Are you interested in buying a bridge? 

It depends... where does this bridge go?

Yes, that's the wrong question.
A good question would be something like: "Is the bridge smoking or burning in any way?" or something like that

Those are follow up questions... first I need to know if I even want to go where this bridge will take me.

[SuperTramp]

100 btc just to open an account??  No Thanks.

[zero3112]

What company is this through?  I mean I see Bit4x.com accepts bitcoin for forex trading but who owns them.  How can I verify the company so I know its real?

[Spekulatius]

If anyone ever tries that out, pls drop an experience report!

P.S.: No Sockpuppets!

[smoothie]

This is still a scam. Waiting for the first "got scammed by them" report! 

[myself]

anyone look for EURUSD shorts using this platform

[Enky1974]

anyone look for EURUSD shorts using this platform

Did twice today, from 1.2970 to 1.2935 and few mins ago from 1.2979 to 1.2958

[guruvan]

100 btc just to open an account??  No Thanks.

fail

This is what my problem is - I simply don't have 100BTC to park. Most of these small ForEx brokers I've seen usually only need $100 to open an account. While that's probably enough to ensure that the customer will lose it all, I'm not sure that 10X that is necessary to ensure the customer doesn't lose everything in a heartbeat.

kakobrekla, maybe you guys could set another account level? Allow insane leverage only on the 100BTC accts, and allow up to 1:??(20? 100?) on the smaller accounts? maybe 25BTC to open?

[kakobrekla]

This is what my problem is - I simply don't have 100BTC to park. Most of these small ForEx brokers I've seen usually only need $100 to open an account. While that's probably enough to ensure that the customer will lose it all, I'm not sure that 10X that is necessary to ensure the customer doesn't lose everything in a heartbeat.

kakobrekla, maybe you guys could set another account level? Allow insane leverage only on the 100BTC accts, and allow up to 1:??(20? 100?) on the smaller accounts? maybe 25BTC to open?

I have pushed the minimum deposit to open Live account as low as I could (yes, the original suggestion was even higher), at 100 units a technical limit was reached. While in theory it would be possible to trick this with deciBTC denomination, which was discussed at some point, the complexity of implementation out weights the gains.

guruvan, I tried to reach you in #bitcoin-assets with no success. Please drop me a message when you are online.


On a side note, until the end of 2012, all new Live accounts receive a 5 BTC bonus.

[Enky1974]

This is what my problem is - I simply don't have 100BTC to park. Most of these small ForEx brokers I've seen usually only need $100 to open an account. While that's probably enough to ensure that the customer will lose it all, I'm not sure that 10X that is necessary to ensure the customer doesn't lose everything in a heartbeat.

First of all leverage doesn't have any influence on risk, it will just reduce the margin required to open a position allowing you to open more trades to diversify or hedge your trading positions.
What is important it's the size of your trade, roughly to do 1 lot you need at least 1000 btc and for the min position size of 0.01 you need theoretically 10 btc but if you aren't good enough  is still too low as a starting deposit.
I don't think that for an amateur 25 btc are enough to cover the max initial equity drawdown that you'll probably have. Maybe 50 btcs are enough to operate with a position size of 0.01-0.02 Lot but as Kako said there are technical limitation to go under 100 btc.
If you think to be skilled enough, find 3 guys that are willing to give you 75 btcs and manage that sum for them.

[Goomboo]

This is the clearest scam I have seen in a long time.  Why has a moderator not deleted this thread and banned the associated individuals?

- We comply to all local regulations. Clients should be compliant with their local regulations.

- Your firm is NOT regulated by the FSA and you are lying when you claim to be.  Everyone follow these steps:
1.  Go to http://www.fsa.gov.uk/register/firmSearchForm.do
2.  Type 217689 (This is FXCM - a regulated, respected, and legal broker)
3.  Click regulators
4.  Notice how it says, "Financial Services Authority" - FXCM is legally regulated
5.  Follow step 1-2 with 194835 (The number for VenetFX)
6.  Click regulators
7.  Notice the void?  VenetFX is NOT regulated by the FSA and they claim to be
8.  Now click the permissions link for each of the above firms.  VenetFX is NOT authorized to transact in foreign exchange, contracts for difference, or spot forex

- All you have done is create a company and register it with the FSA - I have personally done the same and have my trading firm listed with the NFA.  If I were to turn around and offer a brokerage service and claim that I am regulated by the NFA, I would go to jail - which is what may happen to you in the near future.

- It is illegal to solicit foreign exchange business in the United States without being registered with the CFTC and NFA as a RFED
http://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/pr5883-10

- The maximum legal leverage in the U.S. is 50:1 - by offering your service to Americans, you are violating our laws
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=1&SID=bb4e8713bff1ff87626ea3fb658a963d&ty=HTML&h=L&n=12y1.0.1.1.42&r=PART#12:1.0.1.1.42.0.9.9

- The logic and claims of the website are entirely flawed
-- "Yes, your Bitcoin deposits are never converted into fiat or any other form"
-- When you "buy" EUR/USD, you are selling dollars to buy euros.  To say that you can trade currencies without converting your BTC is a straight-up lie.  This claim blatantly tells you that they are trading against customers or just stealing money.

- I have reported this firm and its "subsidiary" to the FSA

[Goomboo]

LOL and I totally missed this:

Absolute lie!  Alpari won the best Forex broker in UK and Europe in 2011 from the IBTimes...the website totally falsified its awards.

http://www.alpari.co.uk/en/cnews/show/id/1899/

[BlackHeartFund]

This is the clearest scam I have seen in a long time.  Why has a moderator not deleted this thread and banned the associated individuals?

- We comply to all local regulations. Clients should be compliant with their local regulations.

- Your firm is NOT regulated by the FSA and you are lying when you claim to be.  Everyone follow these steps:
1.  Go to http://www.fsa.gov.uk/register/firmSearchForm.do
2.  Type 217689 (This is FXCM - a regulated, respected, and legal broker)
3.  Click regulators
4.  Notice how it says, "Financial Services Authority" - FXCM is legally regulated
5.  Follow step 1-2 with 194835 (The number for VenetFX)
6.  Click regulators
7.  Notice the void?  VenetFX is NOT regulated by the FSA and they claim to be
8.  Now click the permissions link for each of the above firms.  VenetFX is NOT authorized to transact in foreign exchange, contracts for difference, or spot forex

- All you have done is create a company and register it with the FSA - I have personally done the same and have my trading firm listed with the NFA.  If I were to turn around and offer a brokerage service and claim that I am regulated by the NFA, I would go to jail - which is what may happen to you in the near future.

- It is illegal to solicit foreign exchange business in the United States without being registered with the CFTC and NFA as a RFED
http://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/pr5883-10

- The maximum legal leverage in the U.S. is 50:1 - by offering your service to Americans, you are violating our laws
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=1&SID=bb4e8713bff1ff87626ea3fb658a963d&ty=HTML&h=L&n=12y1.0.1.1.42&r=PART#12:1.0.1.1.42.0.9.9

- The logic and claims of the website are entirely flawed
-- "Yes, your Bitcoin deposits are never converted into fiat or any other form"
-- When you "buy" EUR/USD, you are selling dollars to buy euros.  To say that you can trade currencies without converting your BTC is a straight-up lie.  This claim blatantly tells you that they are trading against customers or just stealing money.

- I have reported this firm and its "subsidiary" to the FSA

Thanks for clearing this up for people... it does see to be a somewhat complex scam.

The fact that a scammer like pirate walked away with 5 milion USD... I think that told the world that the BTC community are a bunch of suckers. That's why the lending forum has devolved into two assholes with 25 usernames trying to scam 1btc at a time off of well-intentioned BTC investors. It may not seem like a big problem yet... but we have to be ready for a flood of serious and organized scammers who will spend a lot of effort to get one tenth of what pirate stole.

A huge scam like that, where the crook gets off scot-free, is bound to draw a lot of ambitious thieves into our midst. I'm not surprised to see more and more complex frauds like this targeting this forum particularly. 

[kakobrekla]

Thank you for your concerns, I normally wouldn't bother to post an answer since most has already been addressed in this very thread, but with so much bold statements (see, we are already having pun), it seems like I have to repeat myself.

- Your firm is NOT regulated by the FSA and you are lying when you claim to be.  Everyone follow these steps:
1.  Go to http://www.fsa.gov.uk/register/firmSearchForm.do
2.  Type 217689 (This is FXCM - a regulated, respected, and legal broker)
3.  Click regulators
4.  Notice how it says, "Financial Services Authority" - FXCM is legally regulated
5.  Follow step 1-2 with 194835 (The number for VenetFX)
6.  Click regulators
7.  Notice the void?  VenetFX is NOT regulated by the FSA and they claim to be
8.  Now click the permissions link for each of the above firms.  VenetFX is NOT authorized to transact in foreign exchange, contracts for difference, or spot forex

These things take up to 6 months to update in the register.

- I have reported this firm and its "subsidiary" to the FSA

I hope they will take you seriously to provide you with a proper reply.

have personally done the same and have my trading firm listed with the NFA.

Smells like you are leaking your motives.

- It is illegal to solicit foreign exchange business in the United States without being registered with the CFTC and NFA as a RFED
http://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/pr5883-10

- The maximum legal leverage in the U.S. is 50:1 - by offering your service to Americans, you are violating our laws
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=1&SID=bb4e8713bff1ff87626ea3fb658a963d&ty=HTML&h=L&n=12y1.0.1.1.42&r=PART#12:1.0.1.1.42.0.9.9

- We comply to all local regulations. Clients should be compliant with their local regulations.

Spot Forex and Bitcoin is unregulated in Slovenia and through Balkan. We believe in Bitcoin privacy properties strongly and do not ask for any delicate information when clients open a Bitcoin account.

- The logic and claims of the website are entirely flawed

False. If you do not understand it, it does not necessarily mean its flawed or wrong. "’cause it’s the opposite of that." (Leroy Van Nuys, 2012)

-- "Yes, your Bitcoin deposits are never converted into fiat or any other form"

True. Your balance is denominated in Bitcoin, so are you P/L and withdrawals. I don't know why we should be converting clients deposits.
I hold all deposits in a cold storage at all times. With the current dead mans switch implementation, it would take a strategic nuclear weapon that levels 250 km radius around my house to render those Bitcoins useless. Even if Forex blows up, coins are safe.

-- When you "buy" EUR/USD, you are selling dollars to buy euros.

With leverage, in Bitcoins. This has been explained already here and is in the FAQ.

-- To say that you can trade currencies without converting your BTC is a straight-up lie.

False.

This claim blatantly tells you that they are trading against customers or just stealing money.

False. I do not have a clue where or how you derived that from. Also, our Currenex link provider was already covered in this thread, go check up with them.

Some things might not be obvious at the first glance, but whoever can't put two and two together from the information published on the website, with perhaps an intelligent question or two following, is encouraged to stay away from Forex trading altogether, disregarding denomination. This is not Bitcoinica. This is not a game.

There is no official announcement for the service on this forum for a good reason. Since Pirate defaulted (or glbse if you want to pitty yourself) there is only a handful of people left with more than 100 BTC and only a few of those have heard of Forex before. In conclusion, this will be my final statement in this thread. For more information, I am available on irc, #bitcoin-assets or email info@bit4x.com.

"Psi laju, karavane prolaze."

[Goomboo]

Smells like you are leaking your motives.
...
In conclusion, this will be my final statement in this thread.

I'm not replying directly to this post - it's full of twisted lies.  I call out your legality, and you insult my intelligence and credibility.  I provide links directly to the legal code and you accuse me of having twisted motives.  Weak performance.

I enjoy how you decided to hint that I'm your competition - simply not true.  My trading firm makes money from trading, not stealing.  And I will never mention the name OR ask for any funds from any person.  My position of having a trading firm, being registered for spot FX trading, working for four trading companies, and trading FX for the majority of my adult life uniquely positions me to call out your scam.

It's for the best that this is your final statement - you are a scammer and you are breaking the law.  I hope that you return all client funds and pursue legitimate business endeavors before punishment ultimately catches you.

[MPOE-PR]

Thank you for your concerns, I normally wouldn't bother to post an answer since most has already been addressed in this very thread, but with so much bold statements (see, we are already having pun), it seems like I have to repeat myself.

- Your firm is NOT regulated by the FSA and you are lying when you claim to be.  Everyone follow these steps:
1.  Go to http://www.fsa.gov.uk/register/firmSearchForm.do
2.  Type 217689 (This is FXCM - a regulated, respected, and legal broker)
3.  Click regulators
4.  Notice how it says, "Financial Services Authority" - FXCM is legally regulated
5.  Follow step 1-2 with 194835 (The number for VenetFX)
6.  Click regulators
7.  Notice the void?  VenetFX is NOT regulated by the FSA and they claim to be
8.  Now click the permissions link for each of the above firms.  VenetFX is NOT authorized to transact in foreign exchange, contracts for difference, or spot forex

These things take up to 6 months to update in the register.

- I have reported this firm and its "subsidiary" to the FSA

I hope they will take you seriously to provide you with a proper reply.

have personally done the same and have my trading firm listed with the NFA.

Smells like you are leaking your motives.

- It is illegal to solicit foreign exchange business in the United States without being registered with the CFTC and NFA as a RFED
http://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/pr5883-10

- The maximum legal leverage in the U.S. is 50:1 - by offering your service to Americans, you are violating our laws
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=1&SID=bb4e8713bff1ff87626ea3fb658a963d&ty=HTML&h=L&n=12y1.0.1.1.42&r=PART#12:1.0.1.1.42.0.9.9

- We comply to all local regulations. Clients should be compliant with their local regulations.

Spot Forex and Bitcoin is unregulated in Slovenia and through Balkan. We believe in Bitcoin privacy properties strongly and do not ask for any delicate information when clients open a Bitcoin account.

- The logic and claims of the website are entirely flawed

False. If you do not understand it, it does not necessarily mean its flawed or wrong. "’cause it’s the opposite of that." (Leroy Van Nuys, 2012)

-- "Yes, your Bitcoin deposits are never converted into fiat or any other form"

True. Your balance is denominated in Bitcoin, so are you P/L and withdrawals. I don't know why we should be converting clients deposits.
I hold all deposits in a cold storage at all times. With the current dead mans switch implementation, it would take a strategic nuclear weapon that levels 250 km radius around my house to render those Bitcoins useless. Even if Forex blows up, coins are safe.

-- When you "buy" EUR/USD, you are selling dollars to buy euros.

With leverage, in Bitcoins. This has been explained already here and is in the FAQ.

-- To say that you can trade currencies without converting your BTC is a straight-up lie.

False.

This claim blatantly tells you that they are trading against customers or just stealing money.

False. I do not have a clue where or how you derived that from. Also, our Currenex link provider was already covered in this thread, go check up with them.

Some things might not be obvious at the first glance, but whoever can't put two and two together from the information published on the website, with perhaps an intelligent question or two following, is encouraged to stay away from Forex trading altogether, disregarding denomination. This is not Bitcoinica. This is not a game.

There is no official announcement for the service on this forum for a good reason. Since Pirate defaulted (or glbse if you want to pitty yourself) there is only a handful of people left with more than 100 BTC and only a few of those have heard of Forex before. In conclusion, this will be my final statement in this thread. For more information, I am available on irc, #bitcoin-assets or email info@bit4x.com.

"Psi laju, karavane prolaze."

Allow me to interject a brief statement:

We have taken this matter seriously - Matic Kočevar and Mircea Popescu are working together on a soon to be released project (unrelated) and Mr. P is paranoid about trust & credibility (among other many countless neverending things, hence the capital P).

It's agreed the awards graphics in the footer were not a smart move. The claim is that the FSA number is in fact valid. The problem of getting to the bottom of whether it is or it isn't however is not trivial.

Irrespective of all this, Matic Kočevar has made it emphatically clear that he holds at the present time all the Bitcoins deposited by users, and this will remain so in the future. This obviously means that he is making himself liable for any legitimate claims from users irrespective of what happens to the forex venture.

In short: it's too expensive for our interest at this time to establish whether the underlying business is legitimate or not. It would appear it can be verified that the trades are actually being executed (ie, not a bucket shop). In any event, users are well advised to make their own judgment of the creditworthiness and counterparty risk of kakobrekla, and deposit only according to the results of that judgment. Business as usual in the Bitcoin world, as it were.

[Crypt_Current]

Smells like you are leaking your motives.
...
In conclusion, this will be my final statement in this thread.

I'm not replying directly to this post - it's full of twisted lies.  I call out your legality, and you insult my intelligence and credibility.  I provide links directly to the legal code and you accuse me of having twisted motives.  Weak performance.

I enjoy how you decided to hint that I'm your competition - simply not true.  My trading firm makes money from trading, not stealing.  And I will never mention the name OR ask for any funds from any person.  My position of having a trading firm, being registered for spot FX trading, working for four trading companies, and trading FX for the majority of my adult life uniquely positions me to call out your scam.

It's for the best that this is your final statement - you are a scammer and you are breaking the law.  I hope that you return all client funds and pursue legitimate business endeavors before punishment ultimately catches you.

It's hard to know who's honest and who's not at first (few) glance(s) these days, but if this turns out to be a scam, +1 to you Goomboo; I will officially trust you more.

After getting burned by Bitcoinica (which seemed extremely legit when I played there, but then it was my first and only forex endeavor), (and seeing how much potential BTC has otherwise) I'm not betting any BTC anymore on leveraged gambling type stuff.

The fact that you can hold BTC from anywhere without any third party should not ever be understated, least of which by a scamster / fraudster.