Bitcoin framing

[Steve]

We are nowhere near the volume of BTC trades to have it be a standalone currency with static prices.  If I'm selling 1 thing and my vendors that supply me with it don't take BTC, then I'm taking BTC in the context of USD.  I've never seen a static price on anything with BTC.  That's why everyone calls it a meta-currency because it's all about its value in another currency.  It'd need to be 100x more widespread before we see things priced with static BTC prices.

It's entirely possible that instead of anything ever getting statically priced in BTC, people start dynamically pricing everything relative to real goods instead of relative to any currency (fiat, gold, bitcoin or anything else).  As software evolves, I may be able to set my prices relative to input costs.  I could sell widget X or service Y for "input costs + 10%" for example.  I could accept payment in anything that has a sufficiently liquid market and automatically exchange my revenue for whatever asset (or combination of assets) that I prefer to hold...be it gold, silver, USD, EUR, BTC, Google stock...or pirate shares

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[DannyHamilton]

. . . that's more like a thought exercise which doesn't have much going for it. . .

Language matters.  It influences the way people think and how they act.

[ElectricMucus]

. . . that's more like a thought exercise which doesn't have much going for it. . .

Language matters.  It influences the way people think and how they act.

Yes and guess what it evolves and it's a natural process.

[Frequency]

fact is that if you want to pay things with BTC sometimes u have to transfer to another currency for now, my bank isn,t accepting BTC yet to pay my morgage for example   

[DannyHamilton]

fact is that if you want to pay things with BTC sometimes u have to transfer to another currency for now, my bank isn,t accepting BTC yet to pay my morgage for example   

Obviously, but what does this have to do with the way we describe the currency exchange.  You can either buy your local currency with bitcoin to pay your mortgage, or you can sell bitcoin for your local currency.  Either way you end up with the same thing.

[DannyHamilton]

. . . that's more like a thought exercise which doesn't have much going for it. . .

Language matters.  It influences the way people think and how they act.

Yes and guess what it evolves and it's a natural process.

It evolves because people choose to use it a certain way.  People don't use the phrases pro-choice or pro-life accidentally, they choose to use those phrases because they influence they way people think about the issue.

[Topazan]

On a somewhat related note, I wonder if it would be possible to peg bitcoin against gold rather than USD.  Rather than saying "I'll pay you $50 worth of bitcoin", you can say, "I'll pay you 0.03 oz of gold worth of bitcoin."

[Frequency]

On a somewhat related note, I wonder if it would be possible to peg bitcoin against gold rather than USD.  Rather than saying "I'll pay you $50 worth of bitcoin", you can say, "I'll pay you 0.03 oz of gold worth of bitcoin."

www.coinabul?

[markm]

Just to illustrate how weird the tunnel-vision is, think about the weirdness you might see at a mall...

You feel like some ice-cream, so naturally enough you go to the ice-cream store.

Realising you are running out of cash, you are gratified to see there is a dollar store...

Oops! WTF? Waddayamean you don't sell dollars?!?! This IS a dollar store isn't it?

If you thiink Monty Python's cheese shop skit was funny wait till you imagine how this one would go...

-MarkM-

P.S. Yes, I am implying people's excuses against the O.P. are silly/funny.

[ElectricMucus]

. . . that's more like a thought exercise which doesn't have much going for it. . .

Language matters.  It influences the way people think and how they act.

Yes and guess what it evolves and it's a natural process.

It evolves because people choose to use it a certain way.  People don't use the phrases pro-choice or pro-life accidentally, they choose to use those phrases because they influence they way people think about the issue.

Those people are scum. It basically orwellian new-speak.

[DannyHamilton]

. . . that's more like a thought exercise which doesn't have much going for it. . .

Language matters.  It influences the way people think and how they act.

Yes and guess what it evolves and it's a natural process.

It evolves because people choose to use it a certain way.  People don't use the phrases pro-choice or pro-life accidentally, they choose to use those phrases because they influence they way people think about the issue.

Those people are scum. It basically orwellian new-speak.

New-speak? Not really. No.

The point is that language matters, and that it is influenced by the word choices that people make.

With new-speak, a government attempts to use this influence to eliminate words that involve concepts contrary to the governments desires. If there are no words to describe concepts the government disapproves of, then people can't share or discuss those concepts.  On the other hand, creation of words and phrases can also be used to encourage thoughts that are contrary to a governments desires.

Regardless, the point still stands.  People are influenced by the words they use and hear.

[bitcoinbear]

To OP: yes.

Just start using btc as your base currency. Quote all prices in btc. Eventually it will catch on.

The last trade I made was at 80 mBTC per dollar.
The last trade I made was at 0.080 btc/usd.

A share of SatoshiDice costs 0.0034 btc.

[DoomDumas]

Totally agree with the OP !

I try to change my tought / mindset / writings because I perceive BTC as a real currency (even far more powerfull than fiat). 

We have been so much conditionned all life long that fiat are the only valuable currency, it requires an effort to reprogram ourselves !

was my 2 satoshi !

[Topazan]

On a somewhat related note, I wonder if it would be possible to peg bitcoin against gold rather than USD.  Rather than saying "I'll pay you $50 worth of bitcoin", you can say, "I'll pay you 0.03 oz of gold worth of bitcoin."

www.coinabul?

It's a start, but you'd need charts and such.  An api that allows third party websites to gain real time data on the exchange rate.  Also a flat bitcoin per ounce rate would be nice.

[ralree]

When I've messed around in FOREX, I've used the phrases "buy euros" or "sell dollars" before.  I think it's appropriate when you're exchanging currency for currency to use that terminology.  Also, people relate to USD extremely well, and it's much easier to say "twelve dollars per bitcoin" aloud than "point oh eight bitcoins per dollar".  You could say "8 bitcents per dollar," but most people don't even know what BTC is, let alone what a "bitcent" is.  My CPA is a good example - his first question was "how much are these units worth in dollars." People relate well to that because it's their default currency.  I get what the OP is saying, but I see no reason to switch my brain around when typing on this forum versus speaking to various people in real life.

Another poster mentioned that since there's not really a whole economy denominated in bitcoin, it's hard to figure out how much labor equates to 0.0833 BTC.  We all know what we make in our national currency, and subconsciously (or consciously) we determine how expensive something is by comparing its price to how much we make.  If I know my paycheck is going to be $1000, and I know bitcoin is $12, it's simple division.  If I know dollars are 0.08 BTC each, it's harder to think about quickly (at least for me, YMMV).

[markm]

If I know my paycheck is going to be $1000, and I know bitcoin is $12, it's simple division.  If I know dollars are 0.08 BTC each, it's harder to think about quickly (at least for me, YMMV).

Multiplying by powers of ten (such as 1000) is harder than dividing by 12?

I suspect you picked a poor example, unless your kind of math savant syndrome is just weird.

I knew there was a Tonalist among us, but now it turns out there is a dodecalist too now?

-MarkM-

[bitcoinbear]

If I know my paycheck is going to be $1000, and I know bitcoin is $12, it's simple division.  If I know dollars are 0.08 BTC each, it's harder to think about quickly (at least for me, YMMV).

OK, lets take that example.  You received 1000 usd, that is 1000 / 12 usd/btc, which is, umm, where's my calculator? Starting over: You received 1000 usd, that is 1000 * .08 btc/usd, which is 80 btc as your income, did that in my head.

[ralree]

If I know my paycheck is going to be $1000, and I know bitcoin is $12, it's simple division.  If I know dollars are 0.08 BTC each, it's harder to think about quickly (at least for me, YMMV).

OK, lets take that example.  You received 1000 usd, that is 1000 / 12 usd/btc, which is, umm, where's my calculator? Starting over: You received 1000 usd, that is 1000 * .08 btc/usd, which is 80 btc as your income, did that in my head.

Yeah perhaps it was a poor example.  On second look, it's not too bad. 

[franky1]

i would never use the term:
i will sell my dollars for an alpaca pair of socks.. due to dollars not having physical value like gold does..

i would however say i will sell you my gold for the alpaca socks. so i think by using the term use bitcoin instead of the word 'selling' as the OP suggests.. goes against the idea of bitcoin.

which is, having something of actual value for trading for goods and services. plus by classing it as a item of value.. you can treat it as an assett instead of a different kind of cash. meaning tax laws are different.

i will treat bitcoin like a lump of gold. something i own, that i can sell for other items.. and its a asset not an income, when it comes to tax purposes