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Author Topic: Mining with renewable energy: looking for partners  (Read 2611 times)
aramis720
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August 19, 2015, 12:45:59 AM
 #1

I'm a renewable energy (solar and wind) developer based in California. I've worked out a very affordable business model for mining that takes advantage of low cost renewable energy, using various available incentives and the plummeting cost of solar panels and wind turbines. I'm looking for someone who knows the mining space well and who either wants to invest himself in this project or knows investors who may. The scale of investment contemplated is around $10 million so I'm talking about a pretty good-sized project, not a home-based project.
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August 19, 2015, 02:18:29 AM
 #2

I'm interested in chatting with you. I'm currently setting up a mining system in my 410kW solar farm here in Oz.

It's not so straight forward, and there are a great number of variables.. but I'm confident that it can be done. best way is to email me
andrew@scrapyard.com.au
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August 19, 2015, 06:01:29 AM
 #3

of course mine will create expenses decreased dramatically. due to large power consumption and nearly 70% of the cost incurred is the cost of electricity. very impressive if the costs can be trimmed. the use of renewable energy is one of the best solutions

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August 19, 2015, 04:23:02 PM
 #4

You'll have to explain this all a lot more.

Today's "cheap" solar panels are $600/kw, but you'll need at least two times that since the sun sets, so $1200/kW + batteries, which are $1000/kWh. So $2200/kwh of usable electricity. (Forgetting inverters, wiring, set up, land etc.)

So, $2200/kwh. So with $10 million, you could have 4.5MW of capacity, but that leaves nothing for the building, transformers, panels, wiring, land, cooling... and of course miners. Miners are about $250K/PH in bulk.

So, for $10 million you'll probably get 2 or 3 MW/6+ PH of actual mining capacity. (And in California you'll have to dedicate a lot of power to cooling.) The power will be free, but the maintenance and employees won't.

I think Adam Smith would say "either make electricity, or mine bitcoins, but you're wasting your time to do both." (His famous example was don't mine coal to heat your indoor winery in northern England. Sell your coal to France and use the money to buy French wine. You'll mine more coal and have more wine than if you tried to do it all yourself.)

For $10 million, you could probably get 40 PHash hosted and secure a 3 or 4 cent power rate. You'd make a lot more money this way. Spending $10 million to just get 6 PHash would be a disaster.
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August 19, 2015, 04:51:19 PM
 #5

You'll have to explain this all a lot more.

Today's "cheap" solar panels are $600/kw, but you'll need at least two times that since the sun sets, so $1200/kW + batteries, which are $1000/kWh. So $2200/kwh of usable electricity. (Forgetting inverters, wiring, set up, land etc.)

So, $2200/kwh. So with $10 million, you could have 4.5MW of capacity, but that leaves nothing for the building, transformers, panels, wiring, land, cooling... and of course miners. Miners are about $250K/PH in bulk.

So, for $10 million you'll probably get 2 or 3 MW/6+ PH of actual mining capacity. (And in California you'll have to dedicate a lot of power to cooling.) The power will be free, but the maintenance and employees won't.

I think Adam Smith would say "either make electricity, or mine bitcoins, but you're wasting your time to do both." (His famous example was don't mine coal to heat your indoor winery in northern England. Sell your coal to France and use the money to buy French wine. You'll mine more coal and have more wine than if you tried to do it all yourself.)

For $10 million, you could probably get 40 PHash hosted and secure a 3 or 4 cent power rate. You'd make a lot more money this way. Spending $10 million to just get 6 PHash would be a disaster.

no he said solar and wind not solar.

Solar is pretty good when the sun is up.  so I am guessing he will not max his batteries (which pretty much kill solar's pricing)  I would think he is planning to use wind to help his setup survive the night time lack of sun.

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August 20, 2015, 10:05:18 PM
 #6

Wouldnt it be easier (cheaper) just to rent a warehouse in a country with real low electricity cost? I own 3 warehouses here in Venezuela, 11000, 5500 and 11500 square meters, you can pm if youre interested.

Just saying...

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August 26, 2015, 04:32:55 PM
 #7

Wouldnt it be easier (cheaper) just to rent a warehouse in a country with real low electricity cost? I own 3 warehouses here in Venezuela, 11000, 5500 and 11500 square meters, you can pm if youre interested.

Just saying...

What is the electricity cost there in Venezuela? And how good is the place for offshore people?
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August 26, 2015, 05:07:32 PM
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You'll have to explain this all a lot more.

Today's "cheap" solar panels are $600/kw, but you'll need at least two times that since the sun sets, so $1200/kW + batteries, which are $1000/kWh. So $2200/kwh of usable electricity. (Forgetting inverters, wiring, set up, land etc.)

So, $2200/kwh. So with $10 million, you could have 4.5MW of capacity, but that leaves nothing for the building, transformers, panels, wiring, land, cooling... and of course miners. Miners are about $250K/PH in bulk.

So, for $10 million you'll probably get 2 or 3 MW/6+ PH of actual mining capacity. (And in California you'll have to dedicate a lot of power to cooling.) The power will be free, but the maintenance and employees won't.

I think Adam Smith would say "either make electricity, or mine bitcoins, but you're wasting your time to do both." (His famous example was don't mine coal to heat your indoor winery in northern England. Sell your coal to France and use the money to buy French wine. You'll mine more coal and have more wine than if you tried to do it all yourself.)

For $10 million, you could probably get 40 PHash hosted and secure a 3 or 4 cent power rate. You'd make a lot more money this way. Spending $10 million to just get 6 PHash would be a disaster.

Trying to build a closed looped solar system with batterys I agree is a disaster. I doubt he would go that route. Since he's in the solar industry + incentives etc you can easily get panels in the $300 USD range per kw especially in bulk. All you need to is double your needed output during the day and sell back the rest to the grid for night time use.

Even if you bring price up to 500 USD for total buildout per KW you can build a 10 MW output farm for 5 Million. Now lets add some S5+ which with roughly 5MW you can drive around 1,500 of them at a cost of 3M.

You got yourself a 11.5 PH farm that runs for free with 8M and will ROI the total cost in under a year.

Of course this is way more complicated and just doubling your output to break even during the night is not a realistic figure, but its very much doable...even if it takes a year and a half to ROI your still left with 10MW of power capacity and valuable mining equipment running for free.

Its definitely doable if done right.

Project Apollo: A Pod Miner Designed for the Home https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4974036
FutureBit Moonlander 2 USB Scrypt Stick Miner: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2125643.0
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danieluk9
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October 20, 2015, 02:28:23 AM
 #9

Wouldnt it be easier (cheaper) just to rent a warehouse in a country with real low electricity cost? I own 3 warehouses here in Venezuela, 11000, 5500 and 11500 square meters, you can pm if youre interested.

Just saying...

I have PM'ed you, but maybe it's useful information for others:

How does this work? Do you pay a monthly fee and you send them things to plug in?
I live in the UK and electricity is very expensive here, how would I find a warehouse like this I could use?
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October 20, 2015, 03:12:04 AM
 #10

Wouldnt it be easier (cheaper) just to rent a warehouse in a country with real low electricity cost? I own 3 warehouses here in Venezuela, 11000, 5500 and 11500 square meters, you can pm if youre interested.

Just saying...

I have PM'ed you, but maybe it's useful information for others:

How does this work? Do you pay a monthly fee and you send them things to plug in?
I live in the UK and electricity is very expensive here, how would I find a warehouse like this I could use?

His thread is over here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159107.120 .

I personally think at this point look at a more established data center.  The more weeks that thread went on the more wary I got.  At first I was excited and thought wow this will be great.  But go through the thread and read it all once and make up your mind as I could be wrong I'm not perfect.

Cheapest would be people getting together finding cheap electricity in a country with no vat.  Solar is awesome but it is a different investment.  Solar cannot compete with cheap electricity.   And that's what your going up against.  If you do solar it's a long term investment.
ukminer007
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October 21, 2015, 08:36:22 AM
 #11

Wouldnt it be easier (cheaper) just to rent a warehouse in a country with real low electricity cost? I own 3 warehouses here in Venezuela, 11000, 5500 and 11500 square meters, you can pm if youre interested.

Just saying...

I have PM'ed you, but maybe it's useful information for others:

How does this work? Do you pay a monthly fee and you send them things to plug in?
I live in the UK and electricity is very expensive here, how would I find a warehouse like this I could use?

i live in uk too, i have found one place in uk for cheap electricity ,but i cant afford the rent of it alone ,any one like to join me . if u r interested PM me thanks.
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October 21, 2015, 08:43:41 AM
 #12

do you have any connection to this guy ? if no he might be helpful to you
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1214592.0
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October 21, 2015, 09:26:40 AM
 #13

Wouldnt it be easier (cheaper) just to rent a warehouse in a country with real low electricity cost? I own 3 warehouses here in Venezuela, 11000, 5500 and 11500 square meters, you can pm if youre interested.

Just saying...

I have PM'ed you, but maybe it's useful information for others:

How does this work? Do you pay a monthly fee and you send them things to plug in?
I live in the UK and electricity is very expensive here, how would I find a warehouse like this I could use?

His thread is over here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159107.120 .

I personally think at this point look at a more established data center.  The more weeks that thread went on the more wary I got.  At first I was excited and thought wow this will be great.  But go through the thread and read it all once and make up your mind as I could be wrong I'm not perfect.

Cheapest would be people getting together finding cheap electricity in a country with no vat.  Solar is awesome but it is a different investment.  Solar cannot compete with cheap electricity.   And that's what your going up against.  If you do solar it's a long term investment.

I absolutely agree. Some peolple think that Solar means FREE almost, but it is NOT.

OP, could you please tell, at least approximately, what would be the price of kWh in say first two years of operation of your solar and wind systems?  Is "renewable energy" really a "low cost" one ?

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October 21, 2015, 12:56:57 PM
 #14

Wouldnt it be easier (cheaper) just to rent a warehouse in a country with real low electricity cost? I own 3 warehouses here in Venezuela, 11000, 5500 and 11500 square meters, you can pm if youre interested.

Just saying...

I have PM'ed you, but maybe it's useful information for others:

How does this work? Do you pay a monthly fee and you send them things to plug in?
I live in the UK and electricity is very expensive here, how would I find a warehouse like this I could use?

His thread is over here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159107.120 .

I personally think at this point look at a more established data center.  The more weeks that thread went on the more wary I got.  At first I was excited and thought wow this will be great.  But go through the thread and read it all once and make up your mind as I could be wrong I'm not perfect.

Cheapest would be people getting together finding cheap electricity in a country with no vat.  Solar is awesome but it is a different investment.  Solar cannot compete with cheap electricity.   And that's what your going up against.  If you do solar it's a long term investment.

I absolutely agree. Some peolple think that Solar means FREE almost, but it is NOT.

OP, could you please tell, at least approximately, what would be the price of kWh in say first two years of operation of your solar and wind systems?  Is "renewable energy" really a "low cost" one ?

I have looked into it and drooled at others solar.  But I just can't justify it.   I look at and mining uses a lot of power which means a lot of gear.  The solar panals alone are rediclous compared to cheap power.

Only thing I have seen to make it "cheaper" is not buy all the battery's as again you run 10k watts or so even that is a lot of batteries.   But then you just get power during day (sun).  And it still cost's well above any cheap electricity.

You honestly cannot win unless it came with house or something.  It just is a long term investment right now.
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October 21, 2015, 04:34:48 PM
 #15

Wouldnt it be easier (cheaper) just to rent a warehouse in a country with real low electricity cost? I own 3 warehouses here in Venezuela, 11000, 5500 and 11500 square meters, you can pm if youre interested.

Just saying...

I have PM'ed you, but maybe it's useful information for others:

How does this work? Do you pay a monthly fee and you send them things to plug in?
I live in the UK and electricity is very expensive here, how would I find a warehouse like this I could use?

His thread is over here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159107.120 .

I personally think at this point look at a more established data center.  The more weeks that thread went on the more wary I got.  At first I was excited and thought wow this will be great.  But go through the thread and read it all once and make up your mind as I could be wrong I'm not perfect.

Cheapest would be people getting together finding cheap electricity in a country with no vat.  Solar is awesome but it is a different investment.  Solar cannot compete with cheap electricity.   And that's what your going up against.  If you do solar it's a long term investment.

I absolutely agree. Some peolple think that Solar means FREE almost, but it is NOT.

OP, could you please tell, at least approximately, what would be the price of kWh in say first two years of operation of your solar and wind systems?  Is "renewable energy" really a "low cost" one ?

I have looked into it and drooled at others solar.  But I just can't justify it.   I look at and mining uses a lot of power which means a lot of gear.  The solar panals alone are rediclous compared to cheap power.

Only thing I have seen to make it "cheaper" is not buy all the battery's as again you run 10k watts or so even that is a lot of batteries.   But then you just get power during day (sun).  And it still cost's well above any cheap electricity.

You honestly cannot win unless it came with house or something.  It just is a long term investment right now.
Exactly, I think the time of solar mining is going to be a future thing maybe when we have graphene panels or battery technology is at a new level. I do love the idea of running miners fully off the grid though and securing the blockchain without a global impact.














 

 

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Amph
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October 22, 2015, 06:25:41 AM
 #16

Wouldnt it be easier (cheaper) just to rent a warehouse in a country with real low electricity cost? I own 3 warehouses here in Venezuela, 11000, 5500 and 11500 square meters, you can pm if youre interested.

Just saying...

again man how can we trust you? a stranger with no trust and a new account basically, do you use escrow at least?
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October 22, 2015, 07:46:40 AM
 #17

Wouldnt it be easier (cheaper) just to rent a warehouse in a country with real low electricity cost? I own 3 warehouses here in Venezuela, 11000, 5500 and 11500 square meters, you can pm if youre interested.

Just saying...

again man how can we trust you? a stranger with no trust and a new account basically, do you use escrow at least?

He has stopped his daily post's now that questions were asked (in my opinion).  I threw him some questions as I thought some of the plan changed multiple times. 

Last Active:    October 19, 2015, 04:23:27 PM

Will be interesting now that he said he's not answering thread till later date if he shows up very often.
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October 23, 2015, 06:25:21 PM
 #18

The problem about mining with solar energy is that you need batteries, it could be good in countries that you have feed-in tariff  (where you can take from the company the same quantity of energy that you produced), in these case you don't need batteries, the energy that you produce and not uses goes to the net, and you can take energy from the net when you need it. You will pay the electric line cost to the company.
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October 23, 2015, 07:51:46 PM
 #19

The problem about mining with solar energy is that you need batteries, it could be good in countries that you have feed-in tariff  (where you can take from the company the same quantity of energy that you produced), in these case you don't need batteries, the energy that you produce and not uses goes to the net, and you can take energy from the net when you need it. You will pay the electric line cost to the company.

Even if you eliminate batteries the panels alone are pretty pricey in an amount for miners unless a very small operation.   Lets say even 10k watts..... that is a lot of upfront cost.  And it tends to be a long term investment with solar.

And compare that to guy who goes and finds cheap electricity.  The one with cheap electricity win's always is this battle, unless you had years and ROI'ed on panels but we are talking in years, and all upfront cost.
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October 25, 2015, 10:15:10 AM
 #20

I'm a renewable energy (solar and wind) developer based in California. I've worked out a very affordable business model for mining that takes advantage of low cost renewable energy, using various available incentives and the plummeting cost of solar panels and wind turbines. I'm looking for someone who knows the mining space well and who either wants to invest himself in this project or knows investors who may. The scale of investment contemplated is around $10 million so I'm talking about a pretty good-sized project, not a home-based project.

Apparently no one here "wants to invest himself in this project or knows investors who may". BUT if you will get funding somehow, which is possible IMO, you may find people here who will work for you (for a salary of course).

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