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canth
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September 05, 2015, 01:55:38 AM
 #721


As a troll I admire how, upon being proven completely wrong at present, you unhesitatingly and unflinchingly move the goalposts from ~now to Jan '16.   Grin

Given the utter failure of XT/101, do you still thing anyone will GAS about them 3 months from now?

I said I'd be a good loser if XT won.  Are you going to likewise be a good sport now that XT/101 has been #R3KT and tossed into the rubbish tip of history?

I'm fine with whatever solution wins - whether it's 1MB 4evah, BIP100 or BIP101 or BIPxxx - I've said all along that I'll go with whatever the economic supermajority chooses. My only grudge that I don't see letting go anytime soon is Theymos' heavy handed approach to moderation, but I'll admit - I'm still here on bitcointalk, I still download software from bitcoin.org and I hit /r/bitcoin so that just shows that the network effect is not inconsiderable.

Knock it off with the FUD. ~9  exchanges/merchants signed on for BIP101 support and some miners who have been DDoSed supported BIP101 as well, namely Slush and P2P. You know very well that big blocks are far from being decided.

I think that the next interesting advancement is whether or not merchants want BIP101 vs BIP100 or if they just want consensus & big blocks and don't care how it happens.

ZOMG STOP THE PRESSES - MBA FRAT BOY VCS LIKE MONEY AND WILL SAY WHATEVER THEY THINK WILL GET THEM MORE!!!11!1!

So much for my hope you would not be a sore loser.   Roll Eyes

Nobody Cares® that Hearn's Gang of Nine made supportive noises about 101.  It's not like they're going to accept XTcoins!   Grin

Fuck Circle, Goldman, and all the rest of those wannabe gatekeepers.  They and the rest of you Gavinistas are going to have to deal with the fact the socioeconomic majority favors BIP100, which is functionally a vote for Don't-Do-Anything-Anytime-SoonTM.

Your sense of false urgency had a shelf life of Two Weeks.  Too bad the Stress Tests backfired by conclusively demonstrating Bitcoin will function as it was designed to, that is with an ambient backlog due to cosmic background spam, regulated by fee markets.   Cool

I don't think this is over yet. BIP100 doesn't have consensus (or finalized code). BIP101 could be tweaked with more conservative numbers. We could still be arguing about bigger block BIPxxx a year or two for now. I also don't think XT is pointless. There will be more than one version of consensus software that runs bitcoin and that's a good thing.

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September 05, 2015, 01:56:48 AM
 #722

Does anyone have a prediction about when this debate will be resolved?

My guess is March 2016

Heh...that'd be a good bet, although I have no idea about when this ends up being over. Put it up on https://bitbet.us/

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September 05, 2015, 01:57:04 AM
 #723

Is Bitcoin XT on the way up, or is it disappearing? Which wallet should I install...

As a client, down in recent days, and 0.4% of miners:

http://xtnodes.com/

https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/nodes/?q=/Satoshi:0.11.0/

It appears as though most of the nodes using XT are in Russia:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1169115.msg12313955#msg12313955

As discussed here and elsewhere, XT is a virus to the network and represents a systemic risk to Bitcoin.  If you value your coins, install Core.



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September 05, 2015, 02:10:28 AM
 #724

The thing is... you don't even know what you eat nowadays... probably some mentally murder shit like Democracy...
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September 05, 2015, 02:50:11 AM
 #725

While I can't verify whether it is true or otherwise, looking at it, it will erode people's trust. What if this gets manipulated or falls into the control of someone with the intent to destroy btc. It's not meant to be controlled by anybody.

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September 05, 2015, 10:11:54 PM
 #726

I don't know why there still so much war against XT.
XT is a falied project from beginning, even the minted blocks almost have no more BIP101 acceptance, the XT fork will never happen.

No, Hearn is a dictator and says you must run XT. BIP101 will be introduced as a new law in Congress in 2016, applying globally. Yes, even places like Antartica and the Moon.

PS. I also heard Hearn's behind fluoridation.

LOL Y U SO MAD BRO?

Is it because XT was a failed project from the beginning?   Cheesy


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whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
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September 05, 2015, 10:34:34 PM
 #727

I'll admit - I'm still here on bitcointalk, I still download software from bitcoin.org and I hit /r/bitcoin so that just shows that the network effect is not inconsiderable.


I don't think this is over yet. BIP100 doesn't have consensus (or finalized code). BIP101 could be tweaked with more conservative numbers. We could still be arguing about bigger block BIPxxx a year or two for now. I also don't think XT is pointless. There will be more than one version of consensus software that runs bitcoin and that's a good thing.

We already had "more than one version of consensus software that runs bitcoin" so please spare us the empty platitudes.

I already mentioned B100 doesn't have finalized code, and support for it can thus reasonably be interpreted as a giant FUCK YOU to B101.

XT's 15 minutes of fame are over.  Nobody will ever jump on a Gavin/Heam bandwagon again after such a spectacular failure.

They destroyed $1 billion of our market cap.  And you Gavinistas enabled them with your greedy, impatient, simpleminded 'zomg just change 1mb to 8mb and then moon' nonsense and ungrateful, toxic 'zomg szabo/back/thermos >> worse than hitler' social engineering.

Of course Bitcoin will continue, thanks to the Scaling workshops and Blockstream's amazing innovations.

On balance, I believe $1 billion is a small price to pay to (nearly) rid Bitcoin of those who fundamentally lack comprehension (or even dim awareness) of cypherpunk/extropian motivations/methods/goals.   Cool


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whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
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September 05, 2015, 10:47:14 PM
 #728

And you Gavinistas enabled them with your greedy, impatient, simpleminded 'zomg just change 1mb to 8mb and then moon' nonsense and ungrateful, toxic 'zomg szabo/back/thermos >> worse than hitler' social engineering.

Yeah, that was completely one-sided and not even remotely the same thing as your toxic 'zomg gavin/mike >> worse than hitler' social engineering.   Roll Eyes

Pretty sure there's been quite enough of that from both sides.  Now it's time to cut that shit out and discuss proposals on technical merit and not the personalities involved.  Less character assassinations all round, please.


They destroyed $1 billion of our market cap.

All by themselves, huh?  And you weren't doing anything at all that might encourage just the slightest hint of uncertainty in the markets?   Roll Eyes

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September 05, 2015, 11:42:58 PM
 #729

Pretty sure there's been quite enough of that from both sides.  Now it's time to cut that shit out and discuss proposals on technical merit and not the personalities involved.  Less character assassinations all round, please.

I think there is something to be said for that.

Then again, Mike Hearn has proven time and time again to push agendas that are divisive to the community and toxic to decentralization -- redlists, blacklists... I'm legitimately curious what color lists he produces next.

Who was it, Wladimir, I think?--that said he was toxic to the development process, that every pull he touched turned to a cesspool? No wonder he was ostracized. (Shrug)

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September 06, 2015, 03:40:29 AM
 #730

And you Gavinistas enabled them with your greedy, impatient, simpleminded 'zomg just change 1mb to 8mb and then moon' nonsense and ungrateful, toxic 'zomg szabo/back/thermos >> worse than hitler' social engineering.

Yeah, that was completely one-sided and not even remotely the same thing as your toxic 'zomg gavin/mike >> worse than hitler' social engineering.   Roll Eyes

Pretty sure there's been quite enough of that from both sides.  Now it's time to cut that shit out and discuss proposals on technical merit and not the personalities involved.  Less character assassinations all round, please.


They destroyed $1 billion of our market cap.

All by themselves, huh?  And you weren't doing anything at all that might encourage just the slightest hint of uncertainty in the markets?   Roll Eyes

Early this summer, Frap.doc was telling us Bitcoin was coiling for a rally.  Then XT happened, and the price went to shit.  100% not Team Core's fault.

The price would have gone down even more if not for my (and others) assurances that XT was 100% guaranteed to be #REKT like Stannis at Winterfell.

As for "character assassinations" it would help if Team Gavin could distinguish between moderation/moderators and censorship/dictators, as well as the vast difference between stress-testing XT nodes/pools and "terrorism."  

Don't be surprised when such nauseating self-pity results in a focus on the maudlin personalities involved, because many of us take offense at comparing first world nerd problems to the tragic circumstances of actual censorship/terrorism/dictatorship victims.

XT's biggest problem is social.  IE, the impatient/demanding/entitled/whiny Can't-Get-Along types who eagerly defected from Team Core's socioeconomic majority are now unable to get along with each other, much less work together effectively to fight Team Core.

Speaking of Team Gavin personalities, isn't it hilarious that cedivad (bitcointa.lk) and cypherdoc (bitco.in) can't get along well enough to avoid splitting their XT splinter group into even smaller, less effective, self-imposed ghettos of circlejerking?    Cheesy

IOW, Team XT is a group composed of individuals self-selected by virtue of being cranky, fractious malcontents.   Grin


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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September 06, 2015, 04:22:56 AM
 #731

Pretty sure there's been quite enough of that from both sides.  Now it's time to cut that shit out and discuss proposals on technical merit and not the personalities involved.  Less character assassinations all round, please.

I think there is something to be said for that.

Then again, Mike Hearn has proven time and time again to push agendas that are divisive to the community and toxic to decentralization -- redlists, blacklists... I'm legitimately curious what color lists he produces next.

Who was it, Wladimir, I think?--that said he was toxic to the development process, that every pull he touched turned to a cesspool? No wonder he was ostracized. (Shrug)

You know the Gavinistas are in deep trouble when they resort to playing the moral equivalency card.

They have no good options left, and are resorting to the hypocrisy of calling their DoS attacks "stress tests" while at the same time bawling about how retaliatory DoS attacks on their precious XT nodes/pools/sites are "criminal bitcoin terrorism."

The XT assclowns are so eager to attack Bitcoin they don't care when their Troll Fork infrastructure naturally encounters pushback, and ensuing counterattacks wipe out internet/phone access for their entire ISP/.edu/region.

I wonder how their neighbors would feel if they knew their critical information utilities are being broken because the dweller next door feels entitled to attack Bitcoin with zero repercussions.  Perhaps we should be letting them know why they can't watch Fear The Walking Dead, much less use emergency 911 type services...

Now that Bitkiller and his 25Gb+ lulzcannon are a known factor, Gavinistas have no excuse for putting their political agenda (governance coup) above the interests of other uses of their networks.

In Gavinista Logic, it's perfectly OK to incite attacks which take out your town/ISP/region's connectivity, as they are entitled to attack Bitcoin Core (because thermos/Blockstream/etc. are the epitome of authoritarianism).   Roll Eyes


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"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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September 06, 2015, 06:28:20 AM
 #732



Cartoons and graphics sometimes say more than thousand words.
Today I found the truth table in the cyberspace. Wink



How's that "truth" of community support for BIP101 working out for you?

Oh wait, not a single BIP101 block was ever mined.  After the tremendous noise/drama/chaos over XT, all Team Gavin got were some spoofed blocks (and cartoons).

Meanwhile most of the hashing power supports the unfinished BIP100 as a giant FUCK YOU to BIP101.   Cool

BIP101 was the trigger that lead to the broad discussion to leave the small blockers (small brains) behind. Gavin/Hearn will win the game against the evil people (NotXTers, DDoSers, censors and other low lifes) even if it won't be BIP101. We'll have big blocks next year.

Gmax: "We can't increase the block size limit because they'll be too many orphans."
http://bitco.in/forum/threads/gold-collapsing-bitcoin-up.16/page-9#post-285
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September 06, 2015, 07:06:46 AM
 #733

And you Gavinistas enabled them with your greedy, impatient, simpleminded 'zomg just change 1mb to 8mb and then moon' nonsense and ungrateful, toxic 'zomg szabo/back/thermos >> worse than hitler' social engineering.

Yeah, that was completely one-sided and not even remotely the same thing as your toxic 'zomg gavin/mike >> worse than hitler' social engineering.   Roll Eyes

Pretty sure there's been quite enough of that from both sides.  Now it's time to cut that shit out and discuss proposals on technical merit and not the personalities involved.  Less character assassinations all round, please.


They destroyed $1 billion of our market cap.

All by themselves, huh?  And you weren't doing anything at all that might encourage just the slightest hint of uncertainty in the markets?   Roll Eyes

Early this summer, Frap.doc was telling us Bitcoin was coiling for a rally.  Then XT happened, and the price went to shit....

... when it became apparent that the blockstream trojans are still able to torpedo bitcoins progress.
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September 06, 2015, 07:27:01 AM
 #734

So who's winning, red or blue? I can't tell you guys apart anymore for all the name-calling and tantrums.

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September 06, 2015, 08:00:11 AM
 #735

So who's winning, red or blue? I can't tell you guys apart anymore for all the name-calling and tantrums.   Cry

Ah yes, yet another poster more concerned with process objections (zomg someone is being rude on the internet) than technical details about scaling Bitcoin.

There's that last resort of moral equivalency I referred to earlier.   Roll Eyes

Since you can't be bothered to parse the signal from the (icky, ever-so-objectionable) noise, here's a picture which may help you understand who is winning.



Instead pretending to be a neutral arbiter of netiquette, why not just admit you are a Gavinista (of the Death&Taxes variety)?

Oh that's right, I forgot how much Team Gavin loves to mislead the public.

Why don't you fork off to an impeccably polite Gavinista circlejerk forum like bitco.in, since the "name-calling and tantrums" here so irritate your delicate sensibilities?


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
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"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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September 06, 2015, 08:33:15 AM
 #736

So who's winning, red or blue? I can't tell you guys apart anymore for all the name-calling and tantrums.   Cry

Ah yes, yet another poster more concerned with process objections (zomg someone is being rude on the internet) than technical details about scaling Bitcoin.

That's the opposite of what I was saying. This thread, like pretty much all others on the issue, has completely ditched any actual technical discussion in favour of the usual primate shit-slinging as far as I can tell. It's coming from both "sides", if you can call them that, since the only difference seems to be that both hate each other's guts.

What's a Gavinista? I'd like a technical breakdown of the term so I can see if I'm one.

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September 06, 2015, 09:52:40 AM
 #737

So who's winning, red or blue? I can't tell you guys apart anymore for all the name-calling and tantrums.   Cry

Ah yes, yet another poster more concerned with process objections (zomg someone is being rude on the internet) than technical details about scaling Bitcoin.

That's the opposite of what I was saying. This thread, like pretty much all others on the issue, has completely ditched any actual technical discussion in favour of the usual primate shit-slinging as far as I can tell. It's coming from both "sides", if you can call them that, since the only difference seems to be that both hate each other's guts.

What's a Gavinista? I'd like a technical breakdown of the term so I can see if I'm one.


Just reminding that it is gavin first that did not have any data, test or any other technical argument to back his shit up.

Besides his appeal to urgency on reddit and some "hardware will upgrade", he, and all his stupid followers, had it coming. Roll Eyes
LiteCoinGuy
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September 06, 2015, 10:05:05 AM
 #738

11% is not bad. good to have a choice now = XT

when people have to pay 1 USD for a transaction, people can switch to XT easily.

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September 06, 2015, 10:09:06 AM
 #739

11% is not bad. good to have a choice now = XT

when people have to pay 1 USD for a transaction, people can switch to XT easily.


even at 100$/transaction XT would not stand a chance. Roll Eyes

security is somethign you'll have to pay for. THIS IS HOW POW WORKS.

for else go ripple.
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September 06, 2015, 10:10:20 AM
 #740

So who's winning, red or blue? I can't tell you guys apart anymore for all the name-calling and tantrums.   Cry

Ah yes, yet another poster more concerned with process objections (zomg someone is being rude on the internet) than technical details about scaling Bitcoin.

That's the opposite of what I was saying. This thread, like pretty much all others on the issue, has completely ditched any actual technical discussion in favour of the usual primate shit-slinging as far as I can tell. It's coming from both "sides", if you can call them that, since the only difference seems to be that both hate each other's guts.

What's a Gavinista? I'd like a technical breakdown of the term so I can see if I'm one.

There you go again, with your process objection meta.  I'll fetch your fainting couch because in an unprecedented outbreak of ill manners, several Bitcoiners (having uncharacteristically strong opinions) have expressed themselves vehemently!

Gavinista is a play on Sandinista, a Marxist variant of the Free Shit Army that came to power in a putsch comparable to Gavin's takeover bid.

As you sympathize with Death&Taxes' long-debunked Chicken Little panic over lack of more ~free tx, the Gavinista label applies.

I don't hate Frap.doc's guts, I'm just disappointed (albeit amused) he wound up on the wrong side of history but is too stubborn to admit being wrong.

As we consider the friendships and fortunes destroyed by the Bitcoin Civil War, let's remember it was Hearn who decided it best to force the governance issue Right Fucking Now, using overhyped block size FUD to incite the mob against their superiors, for the benefit of his junta.

As for "primate shit-slinging," yes we are going to rub the Gavinistas' faces in the steaming pile of poo XT represents.  There are consequences when you attack (with fully malicious intent) a multi-year multi-billion-dollar socioeconomic consensus and quickly destroy 20% of its market value.

These examples of what happens when you attack Bitcoin need to be publicized, so that next time someone considers attacking Bitcoin with their vanity fork, they may account for such precedents in their decision.


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