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Author Topic: Nefario  (Read 198244 times)
k3t3r
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October 09, 2012, 09:28:51 PM
 #741

As I said, the funds were sent to the secretary, not Nefario.

And in another post he referenced once the funds were transferred that Nefario would have complete control of them.



can you reference the post where he said this?
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October 09, 2012, 09:30:00 PM
 #742

on a side note, i just wanted to quote Nefario:


I do not agree to your proposal.

Then you're asset holders should push to have you prosecuted for fraud.

You have a fiduciary duty to your asset holders http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiduciary_duty

And you have been given all the information needed to carry that duty out.

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October 09, 2012, 09:31:48 PM
 #743

As I said, the funds were sent to the secretary, not Nefario.

And in another post he referenced once the funds were transferred that Nefario would have complete control of them.



can you reference the post where he said this?

If someone else asked then yes I could, you asking, I'm not going to waste my time finding it.  People actually fully and completely reading the thread and comprehending have already seen it, you've proven to me you don't fully read or comprehend my posts.
stochastic
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October 09, 2012, 09:32:48 PM
 #744

on a side note, i just wanted to quote Nefario:


I do not agree to your proposal.

Then you're asset holders should push to have you prosecuted for fraud.

You have a fiduciary duty to your asset holders http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiduciary_duty

And you have been given all the information needed to carry that duty out.

I reread that post just yesterday, it is so ironic, right?

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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October 09, 2012, 09:34:59 PM
 #745

on a side note, i just wanted to quote Nefario:


I do not agree to your proposal.

Then you're asset holders should push to have you prosecuted for fraud.

You have a fiduciary duty to your asset holders http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiduciary_duty

And you have been given all the information needed to carry that duty out.

I reread that post just yesterday, it is so ironic, right?

Man, he doesn't understand his own words.

k3t3r
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October 09, 2012, 09:35:52 PM
 #746

As I said, the funds were sent to the secretary, not Nefario.

And in another post he referenced once the funds were transferred that Nefario would have complete control of them.



can you reference the post where he said this?

If someone else asked then yes I could, you asking, I'm not going to waste my time finding it.  People actually fully and completely reading the thread and comprehending have already seen it, you've proven to me you don't fully read or comprehend my posts.
I would just like to see the evidence for your claim that this is a lie. I didnt see the lie in the posts that you quoted and when asked where the lie is you said it was somewhere else in another post. I would just like to see some evidence for you claims.
stochastic
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October 09, 2012, 09:39:26 PM
 #747

My understanding is based upon the most recent email from the secretary.

The motion was:

Code:
[05/10/2012 18:32:35] <nefario> I propose a motion to have theymos return the user BTC which has in his posstion for the purpose of allowing me to repay users

So I sent CHM only the amount of BTC designated as user funds. I still hold the operating funds.

How about releasing all the meeting minutes instead of just bits and pieces.  If it is OK to post parts of the minutes then it is OK to post it all.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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October 09, 2012, 09:43:28 PM
 #748

I know people are upset and don't like this answer but in the end, we need to root out all the scammy activities in Bitcoin and this forum if we want to move forward and create an environment where real business interests can prosper.

This is pretty much the idea, yes.

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October 09, 2012, 09:44:45 PM
 #749

https://glbse.com/

And again a day has passed...

Please ALWAYS contact me through bitcointalk pm before sending someone coins.
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October 09, 2012, 09:49:10 PM
 #750

At this point, Nefario should make a public statement on the status or start paying out deposit funds REGARDLESS if CHM or Theymos sent him what looks to be 9% of the total funds on deposit. 

He could try and play that game with Goat but this is too far.  If this doesn't happen very soon then we should conclude that either he is keeping them or they have been seized. 

I know people are upset and don't like this answer but in the end, we need to root out all the scammy activities in Bitcoin and this forum if we want to move forward and create an environment where real business interests can prosper.

Nefario also has no reason to not be sending "claim codes" to the asset issuers.  This does not require any bitcoin funds (operational or user) to achieve.  If they are not received in the next few days I am going to assume he has deleting the information.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
oldschool
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October 09, 2012, 09:56:49 PM
 #751

As I said, the funds were sent to the secretary, not Nefario.

And in another post he referenced once the funds were transferred that Nefario would have complete control of them.



can you reference the post where he said this?

If someone else asked then yes I could, you asking, I'm not going to waste my time finding it.  People actually fully and completely reading the thread and comprehending have already seen it, you've proven to me you don't fully read or comprehend my posts.
I would just like to see the evidence for your claim that this is a lie. I didnt see the lie in the posts that you quoted and when asked where the lie is you said it was somewhere else in another post. I would just like to see some evidence for you claims.

Here:

And I call fucking bullshit, Theymos said the funds are "anonymous user funds"  they are not operating expenses and shareholder funds.

My understanding is based upon the most recent email from the secretary.

Quote
The address is: 18bEUAuzWg97swzHXzK4prGGYSBAMCUgz

theymos: If you feel that is a secure address, then send away.

Nefario: Note that this means all of BG's operating funds are in my
hands once they arrive at that address.


So as a review... he said 18bEUAuzWg97swzHXzK4prGGYSBAMCUgz is the paperwallet address, he also said that funds sent to that address would not be given to Nefario, then in the above referenced post he quotes a conversation between Theymos and Nefario that Nefario says the funds are in his hands when they arrive at that address.

Does that work for you?
oldschool
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October 09, 2012, 10:01:13 PM
 #752

At this point, Nefario should make a public statement on the status or start paying out deposit funds REGARDLESS if CHM or Theymos sent him what looks to be 9% of the total funds on deposit.  

He could try and play that game with Goat but this is too far.  If this doesn't happen very soon then we should conclude that either he is keeping them or they have been seized.  

I know people are upset and don't like this answer but in the end, we need to root out all the scammy activities in Bitcoin and this forum if we want to move forward and create an environment where real business interests can prosper.

Nefario also has no reason to not be sending "claim codes" to the asset issuers.  This does not require any bitcoin funds (operational or user) to achieve.  If they are not received in the next few days I am going to assume he has deleting the information.

I'd say I'd guess he doesn't want to give the claim codes or database because he has fake ipo's and was running multiple small ponzi schemes through glbse.

EDIT: I had to change "I'd say" to "I'd guess" because k3t3r would go on a 10 post rant about how I am a liar with no proof and then when I tell him "I'd say" means I am guessing per the definition of the phrase he'd think I was admitting to jumping to my own conclusions without evidence... so just for the record in case k3t3r gets freaked out, I have no evidence of this, these are just my opinions and thoughts.
k3t3r
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October 09, 2012, 10:12:02 PM
 #753


And I call fucking bullshit, Theymos said the funds are "anonymous user funds"  they are not operating expenses and shareholder funds.

My understanding is based upon the most recent email from the secretary.

Quote
The address is: 18bEUAuzWg97swzHXzK4prGGYSBAMCUgz

theymos: If you feel that is a secure address, then send away.

Nefario: Note that this means all of BG's operating funds are in my
hands once they arrive at that address.


So as a review... he said 18bEUAuzWg97swzHXzK4prGGYSBAMCUgz is the paperwallet address, he also said that funds sent to that address would not be given to Nefario, then in the above referenced post he quotes a conversation between Theymos and Nefario that Nefario says the funds are in his hands when they arrive at that address.

Does that work for you?
no, that is not a conversation between nefario an theymos, that is an email sent to both from coldhardmetal with notes to theymos telling him to "send away" and a note to nefario telling him "...means ...funds are in my hands"
k3t3r
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October 09, 2012, 10:16:01 PM
 #754


EDIT: I had to change "I'd say" to "I'd guess" because k3t3r would go on a 10 post rant about how I am a liar with no proof and then when I tell him "I'd say" means I am guessing per the definition of the phrase he'd think I was admitting to jumping to my own conclusions without evidence... so just for the record in case k3t3r gets freaked out, I have no evidence of this, these are just my opinions and thoughts.
just to note that i dont rant, and have largely ingored this kind of stupidity, i am only interested in establishing the facts.
oldschool
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October 09, 2012, 10:16:11 PM
 #755


And I call fucking bullshit, Theymos said the funds are "anonymous user funds"  they are not operating expenses and shareholder funds.

My understanding is based upon the most recent email from the secretary.

Quote
The address is: 18bEUAuzWg97swzHXzK4prGGYSBAMCUgz

theymos: If you feel that is a secure address, then send away.

Nefario: Note that this means all of BG's operating funds are in my
hands once they arrive at that address.


So as a review... he said 18bEUAuzWg97swzHXzK4prGGYSBAMCUgz is the paperwallet address, he also said that funds sent to that address would not be given to Nefario, then in the above referenced post he quotes a conversation between Theymos and Nefario that Nefario says the funds are in his hands when they arrive at that address.

Does that work for you?
no, that is not a conversation between nefario an theymos, that is an email sent to both from coldhardmetal with notes to theymos telling him to "send away" and a note to nefario telling him "...means ...funds are in my hands"


Ahhh, this helps in understanding much better.  I was wrong on that.

I can admit when I'm wrong, can you k3t3r?
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October 09, 2012, 10:31:27 PM
 #756

At this point, Nefario should make a public statement on the status or start paying out deposit funds REGARDLESS if CHM or Theymos sent him what looks to be 9% of the total funds on deposit. 

He could try and play that game with Goat but this is too far.  If this doesn't happen very soon then we should conclude that either he is keeping them or they have been seized. 

I know people are upset and don't like this answer but in the end, we need to root out all the scammy activities in Bitcoin and this forum if we want to move forward and create an environment where real business interests can prosper.

Nefario also has no reason to not be sending "claim codes" to the asset issuers.  This does not require any bitcoin funds (operational or user) to achieve.  If they are not received in the next few days I am going to assume he has deleting the information.

With the utter silence since the Goat delisting, it is anyone's best guest.  I tried to point out how odd the manner of the Goat delisting was and how at that point you should really think about what it means.  Using language like he was the only "liability" on his exchange was quite telling in my opinion.  That is why I directly tried to have him address these comments.

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stochastic
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October 09, 2012, 10:40:31 PM
 #757

At this point, Nefario should make a public statement on the status or start paying out deposit funds REGARDLESS if CHM or Theymos sent him what looks to be 9% of the total funds on deposit.  

He could try and play that game with Goat but this is too far.  If this doesn't happen very soon then we should conclude that either he is keeping them or they have been seized.  

I know people are upset and don't like this answer but in the end, we need to root out all the scammy activities in Bitcoin and this forum if we want to move forward and create an environment where real business interests can prosper.

Nefario also has no reason to not be sending "claim codes" to the asset issuers.  This does not require any bitcoin funds (operational or user) to achieve.  If they are not received in the next few days I am going to assume he has deleting the information.

I'd say I'd guess he doesn't want to give the claim codes or database because he has fake ipo's and was running multiple small ponzi schemes through glbse.

EDIT: I had to change "I'd say" to "I'd guess" because k3t3r would go on a 10 post rant about how I am a liar with no proof and then when I tell him "I'd say" means I am guessing per the definition of the phrase he'd think I was admitting to jumping to my own conclusions without evidence... so just for the record in case k3t3r gets freaked out, I have no evidence of this, these are just my opinions and thoughts.

I uploaded all the history I saved about trades and payments through GLBSE onto dropbox in case people never were able to see the last few moments of GLBSE alive.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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October 09, 2012, 10:45:01 PM
 #758

At this point, Nefario should make a public statement on the status or start paying out deposit funds REGARDLESS if CHM or Theymos sent him what looks to be 9% of the total funds on deposit. 

He could try and play that game with Goat but this is too far.  If this doesn't happen very soon then we should conclude that either he is keeping them or they have been seized. 

I know people are upset and don't like this answer but in the end, we need to root out all the scammy activities in Bitcoin and this forum if we want to move forward and create an environment where real business interests can prosper.

Nefario also has no reason to not be sending "claim codes" to the asset issuers.  This does not require any bitcoin funds (operational or user) to achieve.  If they are not received in the next few days I am going to assume he has deleting the information.

With the utter silence since the Goat delisting, it is anyone's best guest.  I tried to point out how odd the manner of the Goat delisting was and how at that point you should really think about what it means.  Using language like he was the only "liability" on his exchange was quite telling in my opinion.  That is why I directly tried to have him address these comments.

Yes, there's plenty of evidence all over the forums from which to make an educated guess.  I wouldn't even blink twice over somebody telling me that one of Goat's victims went to the feds and implicated GLBSE in the process.
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October 09, 2012, 11:14:23 PM
 #759



Nobody is morally required to honor an agreement to break the law.

Quote
Not all laws are moral to support.
I still agree with that exactly as much as the first ten times you tried to plant the strawman there.  

I suppose I'm the only one seeing the contradiction here.

Because you're an illiterate moron, there is no other explanation at this point.   I am talking about moral necessity to honor a private agreement to break the law.  You are talking about the the morality of honoring an unjust law.  The question is not about the morality of the law, but of the morality of the agreement.  

Quote
It's not the "behind the scenes" activity that was illegal here.  The whole site was illegal (and obviously so) from the moment it was founded.  And you failed to report it for over a year.  Far from immediately.  

As soon as I was aware of the activity it was reported.  As is any other illegal activity I see here.  

Quote
Have you also reported all of the gambling threads and sites?  They're all breaking the law every time they accept money from or pay out to anyone on American soil.  

When I can verify laws are broken, I certainly have reported gambling activity.


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October 09, 2012, 11:27:37 PM
 #760

At this point, Nefario should make a public statement on the status or start paying out deposit funds REGARDLESS if CHM or Theymos sent him what looks to be 9% of the total funds on deposit. 

He could try and play that game with Goat but this is too far.  If this doesn't happen very soon then we should conclude that either he is keeping them or they have been seized. 

I know people are upset and don't like this answer but in the end, we need to root out all the scammy activities in Bitcoin and this forum if we want to move forward and create an environment where real business interests can prosper.

Nefario also has no reason to not be sending "claim codes" to the asset issuers.  This does not require any bitcoin funds (operational or user) to achieve.  If they are not received in the next few days I am going to assume he has deleting the information.

Indeed.  He seemed to have no problem doing this in a hurry when it came to the whole Goat/TYGRR incident.  Why he isn't doing that now is anyone's guess.

My personal guess is that he is withholding the data as "leverage".

If the GLBSE disaster plan were in place, other parties besides Nef should be able to obtain the database.  I'm going to again guess that the plan is actually not in place (maybe it broke down at some point and was never fixed), and that the only good copy of the database in is Nef's hands.

The motion was:

Code:
[05/10/2012 18:32:35] <nefario> I propose a motion to have theymos return the user BTC which has in his posstion for the purpose of allowing me to repay users

So I sent CHM only the amount of BTC designated as user funds. I still hold the operating funds.

How about releasing all the meeting minutes instead of just bits and pieces.  If it is OK to post parts of the minutes then it is OK to post it all.

Seconded.  Having more solid data available and transparency in general as the process moves forward would go a long way towards fixing this situation in the least painful way possible for all involved.

It sounds to me like GLBSE has decided to hand the user funds (both what Theymos and Nefario hold) over to ColdHardMetal, who is to (reluctantly) manage their distribution to the claimants.  Is this correct, GLBSE ppl?

"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
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