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arnuschky
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August 18, 2015, 12:56:24 PM
 #1

Hello,

Could someone explain to me how the governance of this forum is handled?
Or, if this has been explained before in a complete manner, point me in the right direction?

Cheers
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August 18, 2015, 01:00:01 PM
 #2

Governance in what way? theymos is defacto in charge and is the head admin and in control or in charge of the forums funds and donations. Badbear is the other most active admin.

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August 18, 2015, 01:01:57 PM
 #3

Hello,

Could someone explain to me how the governance of this forum is handled?
Or, if this has been explained before in a complete manner, point me in the right direction?

Cheers

What do you mean exactly ? are we speaking about the BitcoinXT once again ?  Undecided
Forum is handled by Theymos & BadBear ( which are both administrators on the forums , forum was originally created by Sirius & Satoshi , and the moderators are are chosen by theymos and badbear asewell and they get recruited depends on how helpful they are basically (mostly the reported posts)
Funds of the forums are taken by Theymos but splitted to several people , check here : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155000.0

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August 18, 2015, 01:53:49 PM
 #4


Not speaking directly about the blocksize debate, but triggered by the discussion about censorship etc.

What I wanted to ask is: Who does the forum belong to? Is theymos the owner and he has the right to decide whatever he wants? In that case, donations have been made to him personally and people have to live with his decisions on how he spends it and runs the forums.

On the other hand, are the forums something that belongs to the community (whatever that means) and while theymos is the administrator of it, he's not the owner and does not get ultimate power of what can be published in this forum and what cannot.

Again, independent of the current debate I wanted to know whether there exists some sort of formal or informal contract on theymos role wrt to the questions above, and whether this has been discussed anywhere.
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August 18, 2015, 01:57:10 PM
 #5

Thanks for the thread on the forum's treasurers, btw. It's really old though - is there a list around that is more up to date?

Again, I am wondering about governance wrt to these funds. Who gets to decide how much is spend for which purpose? Is there any reporting or transparency? Is the forum an entity with some rules and obligations? For example, many countries have some form of non-profit legal entities that give a framework for tackling these issues.
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August 18, 2015, 01:58:54 PM
 #6


Not speaking directly about the blocksize debate, but triggered by the discussion about censorship etc.

What I wanted to ask is: Who does the forum belong to? Is theymos the owner and he has the right to decide whatever he wants? In that case, donations have been made to him personally and people have to live with his decisions on how he spends it and runs the forums.

On the other hand, are the forums something that belongs to the community (whatever that means) and while theymos is the administrator of it, he's not the owner and does not get ultimate power of what can be published in this forum and what cannot.

Again, independent of the current debate I wanted to know whether there exists some sort of formal or informal contract on theymos role wrt to the questions above, and whether this has been discussed anywhere.
If my understanding is correctly, the forum belongs to theymos and he is ultimately the one who makes decisions regarding the website. As for the donations, yes, although people donated to the forum theymos decides where the donations will go, and right now it sounds like a decent portion of the donations are going towards developing new forum software. The same goes for /r/Bitcoin, he's the administrator there and decides what content will be displayed.
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August 18, 2015, 02:02:00 PM
 #7

That's page is most likely updated as should be It's like 5,500 BTC in total .
Forums donations aren't for Theymos personally otherwise he would be a millionaire by now , 1.5 million (5,853 BTC now) is basically going to be for the new forum software to get developped , some others should be for moderators (I hope one can confirm) and for administrators but ti's not that much if we compare it to their hard work I believe .

for the Censorship then I believe it's normal , (I'am speaking about Bitcointalk) BitcoinXT is considered as Altcoin and it's getting moved to that section and there is no thread getting removed at least none of my threads got removed . just moved

arnuschky
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August 18, 2015, 02:06:12 PM
 #8

Forums donations aren't for Theymos personally otherwise he would be a millionaire by now , 1.5 million (5,853 BTC now) is basically going to be for the new forum software to get developped , some others should be for moderators (I hope one can confirm) and for administrators but ti's not that much if we compare it to their hard work I believe .

So in that case, who takes decisions about how to use that money? If the money doesn't belong to theymos but he has effectively the right to freely decide how to spend it, it comes down to the same thing, right?

That's what I mean with governance: Is the forum a private entity (ie, theymos) or if it's somehow community-controlled, how is this done? Implicitly, if at all?
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August 18, 2015, 06:58:40 PM
 #9

Forums donations aren't for Theymos personally otherwise he would be a millionaire by now , 1.5 million (5,853 BTC now) is basically going to be for the new forum software to get developped , some others should be for moderators (I hope one can confirm) and for administrators but ti's not that much if we compare it to their hard work I believe .

So in that case, who takes decisions about how to use that money?

theymos.

If the money doesn't belong to theymos but he has effectively the right to freely decide how to spend it, it comes down to the same thing, right?

Yes, unless theymos does not make it the same thing. He has decided to spend most of it for the development of a new forum that will open source and thus available to everyone, including those outside the bitcoin community.

That's what I mean with governance: Is the forum a private entity (ie, theymos) or if it's somehow community-controlled, how is this done? Implicitly, if at all?

There is no clear answer to that. Theymos is in legal terms the person that would be considered the sole owner as it currently is. However he does not think of himself as such. I guess his spirit is beyond ownership in that regard.

I think this quote will help you understand what I want to say with this:

I've decided not to create an official announcement thread today. But I will answer some questions.

Quote
Who is the owner of the forum?

I've answered this before.

The forum was created by Satoshi and Sirius. Without any explicit agreement or assignment of ownership, it came to be the case that I am now chiefly responsible for forum management. The domain is owned by Sirius. I have no way of forcing him to do anything with it. (Though I recently did gain partial access so that I can change DNS records.) I control a lot of the forum's money. Sirius cannot force me to do anything with this. Various treasurers control other forum money; they're bound by the treasury agreements.

I am not a lawyer, so I can't say for sure who the forum's owner is legally-speaking, and this is irrelevant to me unless I'm dealing with legal stuff.

Quote
Who is the owner of the BTC collected by the forum?

I've answered this many times.

I control most of the money. I consider it my responsibility to appropriately manage this money for the non-profit benefit of the forum, Bitcoin, and the world. I take this responsibility seriously. However, I retain sole control over how the money is spent. No one has any right to influence my decisions, though I can be convinced by reasonable arguments.

The rest of the money is held by treasurers bound by the treasury agreements. Under the treasury agreements, I have a lot of decision-making power, but I can be over-ruled in some cases.

Again, talk to a lawyer if you want to know who owns the money according to governments. I don't care about this unless I have to.

Quote
Is bitcointalk a registered not for profit?

No. I avoid the term "non-profit" in official materials to avoid giving the impression that a government has assigned the forum with a non-profit label, but the term does accurately represent the philosophy of the forum. No one gets or will ever get any kind of dividend from forum revenue.

Quote
Why do you think we needed to spend so much for software when there are free or much cheaper option available?

The most popular forum software is:
- Old.
- Written in PHP, which sucks.
- Written insecurely and messily.
- Difficult to modify, especially safely.
- Not much more featureful than SMF, if at all.

There are a handful of newer forum software packages which solve some of those problems, but all of them are very sparse in features.

The goal of this software project is to create new, open source forum software which will compete with SMF, phpBB, etc.

Quote
What special features will the forum have?

This isn't completely defined yet. It'll have almost all features that we have now. A main goal will be improving filtering and data presentation so that users can more easily manage the flood of posts both board-wide and within threads, while simultaneously reducing the need for centralized moderation.

Quote
The $350,000 was just a down payment or the full amount owed? If it is not the full amount how much more could this end up costing us?

The total cost will probably be around $1 million. The $350,000 covers several months of work, after which I will evaluate the performance of Slickage Studios and choose whether or not to continue. In any case, the code will be open source, so no work will be lost.

Quote
When will the software be finished?

About one year from now.

Quote
Are you getting a kick back from this operation or do you hold any interest in his company?

No.

Quote
Any plans for implementing some sort of a 2FA in the new forum? (this is especially important for people conducting trades over the forum)

Yes, there will be 2FA.

Quote
What do you think about creating new boards or subdomains for altcoins for a recurring (monthly or quarterly) fee? They could even be excluded from the main forum's statistics, and have their own rules and policies (only retaining a few obvious such as no linking to SR-type onion sites or no trades of goods which are illegal in the buyer's or in the seller's country).

Maybe. I don't see any harm in that if it isn't too difficult/expensive.

Quote
Will there be a working non-javascript version of the forum?

Yes, though some advanced functionality may be unavailable without JavaScript.

Quote
Why is the forum paying people a fee to store the forum's bitcoin when storing bitcoin is free? Can't the forum find enough people that will store bitcoin for free?

Some of the treasurers do store funds for free, but extremely-trustworthy people who will do this are rare.
arnuschky
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August 18, 2015, 10:04:58 PM
 #10

Thanks, shorena that pretty much answers all my questions.

Does someone happen to know what that "treasury agreement" is theymos mentioned in the post quoted above?
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August 18, 2015, 10:11:01 PM
 #11

Thanks, shorena that pretty much answers all my questions.

Does someone happen to know what that "treasury agreement" is theymos mentioned in the post quoted above?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155000.0
read the contracts. that should explain it (and more). the list haven't been updated for sometime tho.

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August 19, 2015, 12:59:33 AM
 #12

theymos himself doesn't even know who really owns this website
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August 19, 2015, 10:19:07 AM
 #13

Thanks, shorena that pretty much answers all my questions.

Does someone happen to know what that "treasury agreement" is theymos mentioned in the post quoted above?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155000.0
read the contracts. that should explain it (and more). the list haven't been updated for sometime tho.

Ah yes, thanks. I overlooked the contracts list last time. So these actually define quite a lot of what I've been wondering about.
(Council members, voting, rules etc)
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August 19, 2015, 10:23:01 AM
 #14

theymos himself doesn't even know who really owns this website

You should maybe re-read all of the above...
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August 19, 2015, 07:29:43 PM
 #15

theymos himself doesn't even know who really owns this website

You should maybe re-read all of the above...

that stuff is all bullshit that isn't true
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August 20, 2015, 05:52:32 AM
 #16

So it seems that theymos doesn't own anything in this forum but is rather the head admin that handles everything in this forum? Btw, where is sirius?




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