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segeln (OP)
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December 19, 2013, 08:56:03 AM |
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Any thoughts?
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The forum strives to allow free discussion of any ideas. All policies are built around this principle. This doesn't mean you can post garbage, though: posts should actually contain ideas, and these ideas should be argued reasonably.
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segeln (OP)
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December 19, 2013, 09:10:15 AM |
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What you mean not in? In Russia, finance minister said they might launch a bitcoin clone. How "not in the BTC" is that?  "they might launch.." ist still not in, independant what point you are looking at. And the question remains : why not in BTC (bitcoin)? |
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piramida
Legendary
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Activity: 1176
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Borsche
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December 19, 2013, 09:12:07 AM |
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My question remains also , what you mean by "not in" ? Why they didn't abandon national currencies and switched to BTC? That's not happening this year. If you mean "why they didn't discuss it" well, they did. Probably all three are coming up with regulations as you type. If you mean "why people from these countries are not buying BTC", well they are, ever heard of btc-e?
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i am satoshi
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zeraTunerse
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December 19, 2013, 09:17:47 AM |
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What you mean not in? In Russia, State Bank CEO said they might launch a bitcoin clone. How "not in the BTC" is that? Launching bitcoin clone doesnt make any sence, they still will not be able to control the bitcoin clone, and not many will use just another altcoin |
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piramida
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Borsche
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December 19, 2013, 09:20:10 AM |
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What you mean not in? In Russia, State Bank CEO said they might launch a bitcoin clone. How "not in the BTC" is that? Launching bitcoin clone doesnt make any sence, they still will not be able to control the bitcoin clone, and not many will use just another altcoin I know this is idiotic, but that is not important - important thing is, that they acknowledge the bitcoin train has left the station and want in. So they will add it to their eMoney systems. |
i am satoshi
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knightcoin
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Stand on the shoulders of giants
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December 19, 2013, 09:24:17 AM |
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I am not get into trading speculations ... but US and China was early adopters because they were capable to build miners (pickaxes ) ... but soon or latter we going to see these country get into the dance ...
from Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange Community ..
I looked into ASIC's a while ago and here's what I found:
Everybody has different definitions for the word "ASIC". There are (very roughly) three catagories: FPGA Conversions, "normal" ASIC, and "full custom". As expected, these are in order of increasing price and increasing performance.
Before describing what these are, let me tell you how a chip is made... A chip has anywhere from 4 to 12+ "layers". The bottom 3 or 4 layers contains the transistors and some basic interconnectivity. The upper layers are almost entirely used to connect things together. "Masks" are kind-of like the transparencies used in the photo-etching of a PCB, but there is one mask per IC layer.
When it comes to making an ASIC, the cost of the masks is HUGE. It is not uncommon at all for a set of masks (8 layers, 35 to 50 nm) to run US$1 Million! So it is no great surprise to know that most of the "cheaper" ASIC suppliers try very hard to keep the costs of the masks down.
FPGA Conversions: There are companies that specialize in FPGA to ASIC conversions. What they do is have a somewhat standard or fixed "base" which is then customized. Essentially the first 4 or 5 layers of their chip is the same for all of their customers. It contains some logic that is similar to common FPGA's. Your "customized" version will have some additional layers on top of it for routing. Essentially you're using their logic, but connecting it up in a way that works for you. Performance of these chips is maybe 30% faster than the FPGA you started with. Back in "the day", this would also be called a "sea of gates" or "gate array" chip.
Pro's: Low NRE (US$35 is about the lowest). Low minimum quantities (10k units/year).
Con's: High per-chip costs-- maybe 50% the cost of an FPGA. Low performance, relative to the other solutions.
"Normal" ASIC: In this solution, you are designing things down to the gate level. You take your VHDL/Verilog and compile it. The design for the individual gates are taken from a library of gates & devices that has been approved by the chip manufacturer (so they know it works with their process). You pay for all the masks, etc.
Pro's: This is what most of the chips in the world are. Performance can be very good. Per-chip costs is low.
Con's: NRE for this starts at US$0.5 million and quickly goes up from there. Design verification is super important, since a simple screw-up will cost a lot of money. NRE+Minimum order qty is usually around US$1 million.
Full Custom: This is similar to a Normal ASIC, except that you have the flexability to design down to the transistor level (or below). If you need to do analog design, super low power, super high performance, or anything that can't be done in a Normal ASIC, then this is the thing for you.
Pro's: This requires a very specialized set of talents to do properly. Performance is great.
Con's: Same con's as Normal ASIC, only more so. Odds of screwing something up is much higher.
How you go about this really depends on how much of the work you want to take on. It could be as "simple" as giving the design files to a company like TSMC or UMC and they give you back the bare wafers. Then you have to test them, cut them apart, package them, probably re-test, and finally label them. Of course there are other companies that will do most of that work for you, so all you get back are the tested chips ready to be put on a PCB.
If you have gotten to this point and it still seems like an ASIC is what you want to do then the next step would be to start Googling for companies and talking with them. All of those companies are slightly different, so it makes sense to talk with as many of them as you can put up with. They should also be able to tell you what the next step is beyond talking with them.
===
There are two major ways to get an ASIC made if you're looking at third party processes, such as IBM, ONsemi, STMicro, etc. The first is to work directly with the foundry (manufacturer), and the second is to work with a group that processes smaller orders.
Working directly with the manufacturer, you are typically buying a production run for a particular chip. This will give you multiple wafers with multiple copies of a reticule. A reticule will typically be around 15mm to 20mm square. You would be able to put whatever you want in that space, and you would then later divide the wafer into the individual designs. If you were making a production run of a single chip, your design would be tiled here. I don't know the prices for this, but it would probably run something like: Cost = Masks + N*Wafers, where the masks are a dominant portion of your cost. I would estimate that for the latest 40nm processes, the costs start around $2 million.
If you are not looking for large volumes, or you are wanting to prototype a design, then there are companies that will buy a run from a foundry for one or two wafers, and then sell out space in the reticule. There are two major companies: MOSIS and CMP. They plan on buying only one or two wafers and a set of masks, so their production costs are basically fixed. Their prices are typically based on the size of your design in mm^2. MOSIS doesn't publish their rates, but CMP's cheapest rate on a 0.35 micron process for 650 Euros/mm^2. A non-trivial design will probably cost $3000 or more for 40 chips. The finer the feature size, the more expensive it is to make the masks.
Another item to consider is that the design software needed to design and verify IC's is NOT cheap, unless you're doing it from a university setting.
Now you got some idea why miners market is a pre-order market ...
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dg2010
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December 19, 2013, 09:29:45 AM |
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India - because regulation. India are one of the worlds greatest bureaucracies and they have lots of controls over their currency export and exchange. Not sure anyone will be able to set up a legitimate exchange over there which is going to greatly reduce the growth of Bitcoin in that market.
So I just don't think we will see an explosion in speculative trading in India like we did in China. I think the biggest use case in India will be for money exchange. I would LOVE to be able to send my family Bitcoin and have them cash out somewhere and I suspect there are millions of others with family abroad who would love to get away from Western Union. So India may just accept that kind of exchange because it's 1 way income of money into India.
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segeln (OP)
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December 19, 2013, 09:30:00 AM |
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If you mean "why people from these countries are not buying BTC", well they are, ever heard of btc-e?
well, you nearly won. But the Impact on the Bitcoin Price is not overwhelming up today. and that astonished me. |
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segeln (OP)
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December 19, 2013, 09:34:46 AM |
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India - because regulation. India are one of the worlds greatest bureaucracies and they have lots of controls over their currency export and exchange. Not sure anyone will be able to set up a legitimate exchange over there which is going to greatly reduce the growth of Bitcoin in that market.
Your explanation starts reasonable but greatly reduce the growth of Bitcoin seems to be contradictionary. explain furthermore ,please |
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dg2010
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December 19, 2013, 10:33:34 AM |
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India - because regulation. India are one of the worlds greatest bureaucracies and they have lots of controls over their currency export and exchange. Not sure anyone will be able to set up a legitimate exchange over there which is going to greatly reduce the growth of Bitcoin in that market.
Your explanation starts reasonable but greatly reduce the growth of Bitcoin seems to be contradictionary. explain furthermore ,please You missed a bit. greatly reduce the growth of Bitcoin in that market. Reduced growth means, lower pace of growth. Bitcoin will still grow in India, but it will be slower organic growth. Without an easy way to buy Bitcoin there won't be a big speculation drive like we saw in China. As I say, Indian use of bitcoin will most likely be driven by the exchange market where people can send money to India using Bitcoin. |
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segeln (OP)
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December 19, 2013, 11:05:22 AM |
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Thanks dg2010
I appreciate very much the slower organic growth.
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zeraTunerse
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August 23, 2015, 11:46:45 AM |
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Any thoughts?
I cant Say about Russia and Brazil but For India , there are Few users only and Most Of them Are Startups, India is facing Transition from Average economy to High Economy Country and i am sure there Gonna be some Glitches with BTC in India very soon as the new BJP government is much more concerned with Black Money ( BTC has much affinity with Black Money) . |
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wakasaki808
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August 23, 2015, 07:20:26 PM |
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People outside crypto are not interrested in this... they have their own real coins which they can touch. |
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Jamacn
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August 24, 2015, 06:52:20 AM |
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Any thoughts?
I cant Say about Russia and Brazil but For India , there are Few users only and Most Of them Are Startups, India is facing Transition from Average economy to High Economy Country and i am sure there Gonna be some Glitches with BTC in India very soon as the new BJP government is much more concerned with Black Money ( BTC has much affinity with Black Money) . you just reply a thread which posted in 2013 |
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