Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud)

[VeritasSapere]

It is concerning that such a strong false narrative has been allowed to be build up. Even if you disagree with BIP101 it is not constructive that there is so much misinformation and ad hominem.

[brg444]

It is concerning that such a strong false narrative has been allowed to build up. Even if you disagree with BIP101 it is not productive that there is so much misinformation and ad hominem.

Thanks for doing me the service of repeatedly bumping the thread during my absence.

[muyuu]

Three creative ways XTards are falsifying hash power in rent-a-hash and pay-per-hash schemes:

https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3natjy/stepbystep_instructions_for_how_to_rent_hashing/

https://www.bigblockbounty.com/

https://cryptoplay.net/vote/

Making sure these spoofed votes are overwhelmingly non-indicative of hash power.

[Peter R]

Three creative ways XTards are falsifying hash power in rent-a-hash and pay-per-hash schemes:

https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3natjy/stepbystep_instructions_for_how_to_rent_hashing/

https://www.bigblockbounty.com/

https://cryptoplay.net/vote/

Making sure these spoofed votes are overwhelmingly non-indicative of hash power.

Proof-of-work is proof of work done.  Unlike node count, it cannot be spoofed.

Miners (a) attempt to earn a profit with their hash power, and (b) express their acceptance of protocol rules by way they construct blocks and by the blocks upon which they mine.  When a miner points his hash power at a pool, he forfeits (b).  When a miner points his hash power at NiceHash (the hash renting service), he sells (b) to the highest bidder (who right now are people who want BIP101 blocks mined).  

This is an example of a market becoming more efficient.  If NiceHash didn't exists, some of those same people would eventually purchase physical hash power, resulting (eventually) in a similar outcome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coase_theorem).

[iCEBREAKER]

Three creative ways XTards are falsifying hash power in rent-a-hash and pay-per-hash schemes:

https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3natjy/stepbystep_instructions_for_how_to_rent_hashing/

https://www.bigblockbounty.com/

https://cryptoplay.net/vote/

Making sure these spoofed votes are overwhelmingly non-indicative of hash power.

Proof-of-work is proof of work done.  Unlike node count, it cannot be spoofed.

You misunderstand.

What is being spoofed is the version stamp (not the work, obviously).

Do you have any experience using mining pools?  Have you even mined a single Bitcoin?

[brg444]

Three creative ways XTards are falsifying hash power in rent-a-hash and pay-per-hash schemes:

https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3natjy/stepbystep_instructions_for_how_to_rent_hashing/

https://www.bigblockbounty.com/

https://cryptoplay.net/vote/

Making sure these spoofed votes are overwhelmingly non-indicative of hash power.

Proof-of-work is proof of work done.  Unlike node count, it cannot be spoofed.

Miners (a) attempt to earn a profit with their hash power, and (b) express their acceptance of protocol rules by way they construct blocks and by the blocks upon which they mine.  When a miner points his hash power at a pool, he forfeits (b).  When a miner points his hash power at NiceHash (the hash renting service), he sells (b) to the highest bidder (who right now are people who want BIP101 blocks mined).  

This is an example of a market becoming more efficient.  If NiceHash didn't exists, some of those same people would eventually purchase physical hash power, resulting (eventually) in a similar outcome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coase_theorem).

Cloud mining is a scam. You are promoting a scam that will lose people money in support of a project that is already on its deathbed.

[Peter R]

Three creative ways XTards are falsifying hash power in rent-a-hash and pay-per-hash schemes:

https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3natjy/stepbystep_instructions_for_how_to_rent_hashing/

https://www.bigblockbounty.com/

https://cryptoplay.net/vote/

Making sure these spoofed votes are overwhelmingly non-indicative of hash power.

Proof-of-work is proof of work done.  Unlike node count, it cannot be spoofed.

Miners (a) attempt to earn a profit with their hash power, and (b) express their acceptance of protocol rules by way they construct blocks and by the blocks upon which they mine.  When a miner points his hash power at a pool, he forfeits (b).  When a miner points his hash power at NiceHash (the hash renting service), he sells (b) to the highest bidder (who right now are people who want BIP101 blocks mined).  

This is an example of a market becoming more efficient.  If NiceHash didn't exists, some of those same people would eventually purchase physical hash power, resulting (eventually) in a similar outcome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coase_theorem).

Cloud mining is a scam. You are promoting a scam that will lose people money in support of a project that is already on its deathbed.

This actually isn't cloud mining (at least not in the traditional sense); it's a hash power market not unlike similar markets for electricity.  I haven't used the service yet, and I've been hesitant for the reasons you say.  However jtoomin from Toomin Bros. Mining (the group that has mined several of the recent BIP101 blocks) can see that NiceHash is indeed pointing the rented hash power at its pool.  So it appears NiceHash does what it claims to do.

https://www.nicehash.com

[brg444]

Three creative ways XTards are falsifying hash power in rent-a-hash and pay-per-hash schemes:

https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3natjy/stepbystep_instructions_for_how_to_rent_hashing/

https://www.bigblockbounty.com/

https://cryptoplay.net/vote/

Making sure these spoofed votes are overwhelmingly non-indicative of hash power.

Proof-of-work is proof of work done.  Unlike node count, it cannot be spoofed.

Miners (a) attempt to earn a profit with their hash power, and (b) express their acceptance of protocol rules by way they construct blocks and by the blocks upon which they mine.  When a miner points his hash power at a pool, he forfeits (b).  When a miner points his hash power at NiceHash (the hash renting service), he sells (b) to the highest bidder (who right now are people who want BIP101 blocks mined).  

This is an example of a market becoming more efficient.  If NiceHash didn't exists, some of those same people would eventually purchase physical hash power, resulting (eventually) in a similar outcome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coase_theorem).

Cloud mining is a scam. You are promoting a scam that will lose people money in support of a project that is already on its deathbed.

This actually isn't cloud mining; it's a hash power market not unlike similar markets for electricity.  I haven't used the service yet, and I've been hesitant for the reasons you say.  However jtoomin from Toomin Bros. Mining (the group that has mined several of the recent BIP101 blocks) can see that NiceHash is indeed pointing the rented hash power at its pool.  So it appears NiceHash indeed does what it claims to do.

 

Welcome to NiceHash, the most advanced crypto currency cloud mining, hash rental service and multipool.

I mean look at the fucking website, if that doesn't scream scam to you.............https://www.nicehash.com

They even have the token 5 $ fiverr motion graphic...

[muyuu]

Three creative ways XTards are falsifying hash power in rent-a-hash and pay-per-hash schemes:

https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3natjy/stepbystep_instructions_for_how_to_rent_hashing/

https://www.bigblockbounty.com/

https://cryptoplay.net/vote/

Making sure these spoofed votes are overwhelmingly non-indicative of hash power.

Proof-of-work is proof of work done.  Unlike node count, it cannot be spoofed.

Miners (a) attempt to earn a profit with their hash power, and (b) express their acceptance of protocol rules by way they construct blocks and by the blocks upon which they mine.  When a miner points his hash power at a pool, he forfeits (b).  When a miner points his hash power at NiceHash (the hash renting service), he sells (b) to the highest bidder (who right now are people who want BIP101 blocks mined).  

This is an example of a market becoming more efficient.  If NiceHash didn't exists, some of those same people would eventually purchase physical hash power, resulting (eventually) in a similar outcome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coase_theorem).

Again you have no idea of what you're talking about and you are rambling on your spherical cows, which as a mathematician CS annoys me, you are adding to the stereotype.

PoW is legit, nobody is denying that, but version bits are being spoofed. This adds to the already known possibility that a version-bit based trigger scheme might get activated without the actual hashing power backing running what they say they are running.

Also, as others mentioned, cloud mining and hash markets are chock-full with scams and exit-scam schemes. The standard is not offering any guarantees or leverage, which in an unregulated market means what we already should know. Still in 2015 people don't seem to grasp the difference of operating in de-facto unregulated Bitcoin.

As a miner this nonsense makes me laugh, but I do worry about the uncertainty it may cause and at the money it can lose to unsuspecting people in various ways.

And with all that, 0.6%.

[brg444]

Three creative ways XTards are falsifying hash power in rent-a-hash and pay-per-hash schemes:

https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3natjy/stepbystep_instructions_for_how_to_rent_hashing/

https://www.bigblockbounty.com/

https://cryptoplay.net/vote/

Making sure these spoofed votes are overwhelmingly non-indicative of hash power.

Proof-of-work is proof of work done.  Unlike node count, it cannot be spoofed.

Miners (a) attempt to earn a profit with their hash power, and (b) express their acceptance of protocol rules by way they construct blocks and by the blocks upon which they mine.  When a miner points his hash power at a pool, he forfeits (b).  When a miner points his hash power at NiceHash (the hash renting service), he sells (b) to the highest bidder (who right now are people who want BIP101 blocks mined).  

This is an example of a market becoming more efficient.  If NiceHash didn't exists, some of those same people would eventually purchase physical hash power, resulting (eventually) in a similar outcome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coase_theorem).

Again you have no idea of what you're talking about and you are rambling on your spherical cows, which as a mathematician CS annoys me, you are adding to the stereotype.

PoW is legit, nobody is denying that, but version bits are being spoofed. This adds to the already known possibility that a version-bit based trigger scheme might get activated without the actual hashing power backing running what they say they are running.

Also, as others mentioned, cloud mining and hash markets are chock-full with scams and exit-scam schemes. The standard is not offering any guarantees or leverage, which in an unregulated market means what we already should know. Still in 2015 people don't seem to grasp the difference of operating in de-facto unregulated Bitcoin.

As a miner this nonsense makes me laugh, but I do worry about the uncertainty it may cause and at the money it can lose to unsuspecting people in various ways.

And with all that, 0.6%.

This desperation level is something never seen before 

[Peter R]

Welcome to NiceHash, the most advanced crypto currency cloud mining, hash rental service and multipool.

I mean look at the fucking website, if that doesn't scream scam to you.............https://www.nicehash.com

They even have the token 5 $ fiverr motion graphic...

You quoted me before I added the parenthetical remark "at least not cloud mining in the traditional sense." It's unfortunate they use the term cloud mining on the website, due to its negative connotation.  

The idea behind NiceHash is that entities can sell hash power into the pool, and that entities can purchase hash power from the pool and direct it as they see fit.  Like I said, this can be interpreted as hashers selling their right to "vote with their hash power" to people who want to vote but don't also want to run mining hardware.  

Assuming that the service works as advertised, would you still consider it a scam?

[Peter R]

Also, as others mentioned, cloud mining and hash markets are chock-full with scams and exit-scam schemes. The standard is not offering any guarantees or leverage, which in an unregulated market means what we already should know. Still in 2015 people don't seem to grasp the difference of operating in de-facto unregulated Bitcoin.

Assuming NiceHash works as advertised (you actually get what you pay for and they don't exit scam), would you still consider it a scam?  

In other words, would you consider legitimate markets for buying and selling hash power to be a scam?  If so, why?

[brg444]

Also, as others mentioned, cloud mining and hash markets are chock-full with scams and exit-scam schemes. The standard is not offering any guarantees or leverage, which in an unregulated market means what we already should know. Still in 2015 people don't seem to grasp the difference of operating in de-facto unregulated Bitcoin.

Assuming NiceHash works as advertised (you actually get what you pay for and they don't exit scam), would you still consider it a scam?  

In other words, would you consider legitimate markets for buying and selling hash power to be a scam?  If so, why?

Most scams usually pretend to "work as advertised" until they don't and then.... it's gone

[Peter R]

Also, as others mentioned, cloud mining and hash markets are chock-full with scams and exit-scam schemes. The standard is not offering any guarantees or leverage, which in an unregulated market means what we already should know. Still in 2015 people don't seem to grasp the difference of operating in de-facto unregulated Bitcoin.

Assuming NiceHash works as advertised (you actually get what you pay for and they don't exit scam), would you still consider it a scam?  

In other words, would you consider legitimate markets for buying and selling hash power to be a scam?  If so, why?

Most scams usually pretend to "work as advertised" until they don't and then.... it's gone

That's not my question. 

My question is: would you consider legitimate markets for buying and selling hash power to be a scam?  If so, why?

[brg444]

Also, as others mentioned, cloud mining and hash markets are chock-full with scams and exit-scam schemes. The standard is not offering any guarantees or leverage, which in an unregulated market means what we already should know. Still in 2015 people don't seem to grasp the difference of operating in de-facto unregulated Bitcoin.

Assuming NiceHash works as advertised (you actually get what you pay for and they don't exit scam), would you still consider it a scam?  

In other words, would you consider legitimate markets for buying and selling hash power to be a scam?  If so, why?

Most scams usually pretend to "work as advertised" until they don't and then.... it's gone

That's not my question.  

My question is: would you consider legitimate markets for buying and selling hash power to be a scam?  If so, why?

Considering there is absolutely no way to get any kind of return on your investment I'd say it is most definitely a scam.

They're straight up ponzi schemes.

[Peter R]

My question is: would you consider legitimate markets for buying and selling hash power to be a scam?  If so, why?

Considering there is absolutely no way to get any kind of return on your investment I'd say it is most definitely a scam.

Thank you for answering.

I disagree of course.  Entities selling hash power would earn slightly more on average than pointing their equipment at a pool (so sellers do have an ROI advantage).  This bonus is paid for by entities buying hash power as a way to express their vote.  In other words, what we're seeing is a market emerge for the ability to construct blocks according to one's volition.  

Constructing blocks according to one's volition has value; it's how Bitcoin's consensus mechanism works and evolves.  

[brg444]

My question is: would you consider legitimate markets for buying and selling hash power to be a scam?  If so, why?

Considering there is absolutely no way to get any kind of return on your investment I'd say it is most definitely a scam.

Thank you for answering.

I disagree of course.  Entities selling hash power would earn slightly more on average than pointing their equipment at a pool (so sellers do have an ROI advantage).  This bonus is paid for by entities buying hash power as a way to express their vote.  In other words, what we're seeing is a market emerge for the ability to construct blocks according to one's volition.  

Constructing blocks according to one's volition has value; it's how Bitcoin's consensus mechanism works and evolves.  

 

Of course I'm referring to the buyer's ROI.

The nonsense you just typed has nothing to do with the reason for the existence of cloud mining services ponzis. Literally no one but XT retards are buying cloud mining to "construct blocks according to one's volition".

The simple pretense that these shenanigans would somehow move the needle in the balance of power is asinine and for you to defend such a scheme shows how desperate you and your gang are.

There is no "vote" Peter and what you describe has nothing to do with Bitcoin's consensus mechanism.

[iCEBREAKER]

Three creative ways XTards are falsifying hash power in rent-a-hash and pay-per-hash schemes:

https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3natjy/stepbystep_instructions_for_how_to_rent_hashing/

https://www.bigblockbounty.com/

https://cryptoplay.net/vote/

Making sure these spoofed votes are overwhelmingly non-indicative of hash power.

Proof-of-work is proof of work done.  Unlike node count, it cannot be spoofed.

Again you have no idea of what you're talking about and you are rambling on your spherical cows, which as a mathematician CS annoys me, you are adding to the stereotype.

PoW is legit, nobody is denying that, but version bits are being spoofed. This adds to the already known possibility that a version-bit based trigger scheme might get activated without the actual hashing power backing running what they say they are running.

"HURR DURR proof-of-work cannot be spoofed, therefore it is impossible for blocks to have faked version bits."

/PR logic fail

Peter R seems to have no idea how Bitcoin mining/pools actually work.  I asked him if he's ever mined so much as a single BTC.  No response...

Can you believe that such fucktard was allowed to speak at #ScalingBitcoin?  Maybe they invited him because he makes Team XT look like fools!   

[brg444]

In other words, what we're seeing is a market emerge for the ability to construct blocks according to one's volition.  

My sides still hurt from this one  seriously.....

[hdbuck]

In other words, what we're seeing is a market emerge for the ability to construct blocks according to one's volition. 

My sides still hurt from this one  seriously.....

Lmao

Wtf is he even on? Trippin balls!