CryptoXChange.com - Be cautious and check before if you get out your BTC or USD

[SebastianJu]

So yesterday, when btc crashed this website had good opporunity to sell btc. And i checked before aurumxchange would exchange crypto to mtgox-codes. So i transferred 6.7btc to them. Sold them and had 82.30$ then. I went to aurum and wanted to exchange. And only after i filled out everything they told me that they dont exchange them. Today... after i wrote the support of aurum they say that at least after you chose crypto and mtgox. So you can be warned before. But i didnt get that warning.

So then i had usd in crypto and couldnt take it out. bitinstant and aurumxchange arent working with them anymore. mtgoxcodes arent available. and an cryptxchangecode i would be able to create wasnt taken by #bitcoin-otc, here in the forum and in another forum.

So i wrote the support of crypto. Livesupport ist dead anyway. Not one of their messengers work. Only zendesk. And i wrote the owner here in the forum. Named cryptoxchange: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=40345

Today the support wrote me: "Dear user,

We are working with Aurum and Bitinstant to get the withdraw method working back.
We will update you as soon as we get it working."

The owner here in forum was here but didnt answer my pm.

So now i dont trusted them anymore. I decided to get my btc back even when i have to buy them for more. So i bought btc and have now 6.39673062BTC. its written in the balance.

I then tried to withdraw them. Not sufficient balaance. But i entered the same amount. And withdraw is free. The same when i took 0.5% away. Then i tried to withdraw 3BT. Its the half. That should be ennough for a fee. What happened? "Balance is not sufficient".

So that proofs to me that they gone scam. Exchanger dont want to work with them anymore and they dont give out the money of the users.

I would say dont send any more money there. The high price of the Orderbook are maybe fake and a honeypot.

I would be happy you can tell me im wrong... but telling me i dont have enough btc when i have 6.4 and only want 3 is proof for me.

Thanks!
Sebastian

[CIYAM]

It does seem (from several recent complaint posts) that they are having some troubles recently but I haven't seen any evidence of any "scam" so it might be a little too soon to be posting in this board, however, as I stated in another thread the obviously small volume of BTC traded on their exchange makes it fairly understandable that they might be low on available human resources.

Hopefully they will soon be addressing these recent issues and more hopefully their trade volume will increase.

[SebastianJu]

For myself i see it as proof that they tell me i dont have enough btc to withdraw 3btc while in fact i have 6.4btc with them. Clearly stated in my balance.

And that the still advertised possibilities to withdraw with bitinstant and aurumxchange arent true seems to speak for itself too.

[CIYAM]

Certainly if their website contains false information it should be corrected ASAP (might be nice if one or other of the businesses concerned could comment). As for your withdrawal issue is the balance amount visible in the bitcoin address assigned to your account or only in their DB?

[SebastianJu]

You mean this: https://blockchain.info/address/1PyuAkLeiGRqh1x1dbnLzKHRcR76YzdZj3

Im not fully sure how to interprete. the incoming payment are my btc i put in yesterday. Then i sold them for getting $82.30 and today i bought btc again. It looks like they werent put into the same address again. Am i right?

Regarding the 29.85BTC... i dont know about that. I created my account at crypto yesterday and got this address. I only put money on that address and then used the website of crypto.

[CIYAM]

Am not entirely sure if I follow that either, however, certainly it looks as though the bitcoin that you put in was moved out (perhaps along with other deposits).

If your second purchase has not been sent to the same address (which I'm guessing is likely assuming that the address they give you is only for depositing) then it is not really possible to determine your *actual* BTC balance (it is only a figure in their DB).

[SebastianJu]

I dont think ill get them anymore. I know others that yesterday sold their btc there and cant take them out now. They still have the USD. Problem is the same. I think ill cut it as lost and stop feeling angry. It wouldnt help me anyway.

[CIYAM]

Hopefully it hasn't become the next WBX yet.

It really is a pity that running an exchange in Aus seems to be perhaps just an unprofitable business at this stage.

[SebastianJu]

I dont know if its unprofitable. I heard they started a big ad-campaign after tradehill died and got many of these traders. Afterwards the service gone down, website slow and so on so that people believed they took more than they could eat. So i doubt they had to less traders. I think more they couldnt manage it like businessmans. Otherwise i dont know why the exchangers stopped working with them. It probably is because of not good businesspractise.

[CIYAM]

Hard to say exactly what went wrong but I never really saw any large volume trade there at all (even after the Tradehill collapse).

The website has always been slow (and the trading engine even more so) - it is my guess that they had hoped more volume would have produced more profits which would have let them employ more people and improve the software.

There are no other Aussie BTC exchanges that have really worked so I think the problem is simply that there is not enough demand for bitcoins down under.

[fbastage]

really sorry to hear people are having trouble with this place and getting their funds.

I had some issues with cryptox and have tried to warn people.

my issue was with a flaw in their order book.  a user can put an order on the order book which appears to be a valid order, but is unfunded.  There is a bid at $8 USD for 124BTC ($992 total) that I have left there to demonstrate to the operators of the site - it is unfunded and anyone who tries to buy these btc at that price will be disappointed - and the site has done nothing about this issue since July 25, 2012.

This flaw in their system costed me considerably in an arbitrage situation:

• I had funds on mtgox
• Arbitrage condition existed between gox and cryptox (according the flawed order book)
• I transfered funds at my expense from gox to cryptox
• My orders on cryptox revealed the listings in the order book were invalid as they did not fill at the prices expected but simply vanished.  If I hadn't used a limit order I would have triggered orders for a much worse price
• I transfered funds at my expense from cryptox to gox, as there were no advantageous prices on cryptox
• I submitted a help ticket to cryptox complaining of this issue and requesting compensation for my losses due to their error
• Received no response, no feedback, no help, no compensation
• Discovered the cause of the issue, placing an invalid order on the books to demonstrate it, and contacted their help ticket system again
• Received no response, no feedback, no help, no compensation
• Decided to never trust their system again

Everyone should be warned that this has been for a long time a sub-par platform and undeserving of business.  And now it appears they are either extremely negligent or possibly malicious in mismanaging the site, it's capabilities, and user funds.

[SebastianJu]

One more sign it seems... so what can be done to protect other people? Scammertag for the user here? Anything more? Maybe i should change the topic adding scam or something so that users at google checking out the site can see it fast...

[MPOE-PR]

Well this sucks.

[Bigpiggy01]

Ken has been ill so there have been banking delays etc. Which I'm willing to bet is why there are issues with Bitinstant and Aurumnexchange. MT Gox has had the exact same issue when being slow on wires or Aurumn has passed their limits on Gox USD and I don't see anyone moaning that they should be tagged etc.

I do a fairly decent volume through them on a monthly basis and have no problems except for the occasional delay with a wire that gets sorted out all in good time.

As to your balance not available try dropping the last decimal point or reducing it by one as it may be a rounding error it has been in the past for me and yes it's annoying as hell, it's either that or their hotwallet is empty.

really sorry to hear people are having trouble with this place and getting their funds.

I had some issues with cryptox and have tried to warn people.

my issue was with a flaw in their order book.  a user can put an order on the order book which appears to be a valid order, but is unfunded.  There is a bid at $8 USD for 124BTC ($992 total) that I have left there to demonstrate to the operators of the site - it is unfunded and anyone who tries to buy these btc at that price will be disappointed - and the site has done nothing about this issue since July 25, 2012.

This flaw in their system costed me considerably in an arbitrage situation:

• I had funds on mtgox
• Arbitrage condition existed between gox and cryptox (according the flawed order book)
• I transfered funds at my expense from gox to cryptox
• My orders on cryptox revealed the listings in the order book were invalid as they did not fill at the prices expected but simply vanished.  If I hadn't used a limit order I would have triggered orders for a much worse price
• I transfered funds at my expense from cryptox to gox, as there were no advantageous prices on cryptox
• I submitted a help ticket to cryptox complaining of this issue and requesting compensation for my losses due to their error
• Received no response, no feedback, no help, no compensation
• Discovered the cause of the issue, placing an invalid order on the books to demonstrate it, and contacted their help ticket system again
• Received no response, no feedback, no help, no compensation
• Decided to never trust their system again

Everyone should be warned that this has been for a long time a sub-par platform and undeserving of business.  And now it appears they are either extremely negligent or possibly malicious in mismanaging the site, it's capabilities, and user funds.

Dude A that isn't arbitrage as you have funds in place to execute instantly if you're seriously trading arbitrage what you're describing is at best dicking around and doing so will get you burnt one way or the other.
B I will bet you dollars to doughnuts that you can not login to your account with 0 balance and go create orders so CUT THE FUD.
C Yes you can leave an order on the book after withdrawing funds and no that doesn't disappear like it should but that is a far far cry from the FUD you're describing above.

Before you start posting stuff in a a scam accusation thread have your facts straight.

[fbastage]

B I will bet you dollars to doughnuts that you can not login to your account with 0 balance and go create orders so CUT THE FUD.

irrelevant. it's a flaw. it costs people money. it has an easy fix. it has not been fixed. for months.

[Bigpiggy01]

B I will bet you dollars to doughnuts that you can not login to your account with 0 balance and go create orders so CUT THE FUD.

irrelevant. it's a flaw. it costs people money. it has an easy fix. it has not been fixed. for months.

No it is not irrelevant when you're presenting things incorrectly like above. And how is this worse than iceberg orders or darkpools etc elsewhere? Furthermore stuff like this only costs you money if you haven't got a clue in the first place about what you're doing. Why do you think people run bots on MT Gox that consistently prob in one direction or the other with 0.01 btc etc? Grow up and stop whinging.

[fbastage]

No it is not irrelevant when you're presenting things incorrectly like above. And how is this worse than iceberg orders or darkpools etc elsewhere? Furthermore stuff like this only costs you money if you haven't got a clue in the first place about what you're doing. Why do you think people run bots on MT Gox that consistently prob in one direction or the other with 0.01 btc etc? Grow up and stop whinging.

the system fails. it can't be trusted. it costs user's money. the operator's don't care, don't address it, don't fix it.  this is bad.

furthermore, I have a clue.  furthermore what I presented is absolutely correct.  and verifiable.

this is worse than darkpools in that darkpools do not falsely claim there is an order at price X.  the faulty order book at cryptox does.

[SebastianJu]

Bigpiggy01... like i said... thats the balance i have at them:

Balance:
USD  0.00| AUD  0.00|
BTC  6.39673062 | NMC  0

I tried to withdraw the following:

3

and it told me i dont have enough btc. So it cant be a rounding error.

Regarding the orderbookproblem... if such bids can still be set and users trying to accomplish them lose money then its a problem i think. It could have been fixed but wasnt. Or is it fixed already?
Claiming that others do worse thing isnt an excuse. You have to trust an exchanger. If you cant you shouldnt use it for your own security.
And i dont see what you said about not being arbitrage. When he can sell high at crypto and buy low at mtgox then that meets exactly the definition of arbitrage. How could he proof before if an offer is a fakeoffer?

[Bigpiggy01]

Bigpiggy01... like i said... thats the balance i have at them:

Balance:
USD  0.00| AUD  0.00|
BTC  6.39673062 | NMC  0

I tried to withdraw the following:

3

and it told me i dont have enough btc. So it cant be a rounding error.

Regarding the orderbookproblem... if such bids can still be set and users trying to accomplish them lose money then its a problem i think. It could have been fixed but wasnt. Or is it fixed already?
Claiming that others do worse thing isnt an excuse. You have to trust an exchanger. If you cant you shouldnt use it for your own security.
And i dont see what you said about not being arbitrage. When he can sell high at crypto and buy low at mtgox then that meets exactly the definition of arbitrage. How could he proof before if an offer is a fakeoffer?

I got their support guy on SKYPE

[10/9/2012 11:19:44 PM] Mahin: yeah.. the hot wallet dried.. refilling it

I'm not claiming that others do worse I'm stating that others do exactly the same thing, misrepresent their orderbook. If you want check that the FUD fbastage was initially spreading is 100% incorrect please try to place a bid in the USD or AUD market, see what the exchange tells you and post that back here.

 

[SebastianJu]

Dear user,

We are working with Aurum and Bitinstant to get the integration back.

As far as Insufficient balance issue concerns, it was due to insufficient balance in our hot wallet and it has nothing to do with your account balance, the issue is resolved and you should be able to withdraw tour full balance now.

We understand that having no MtGox codes available is very frustrating for arb traders.

Please use support desk only or support@cryptoxchange.com for communication as we do not provide support over forum PM account.

We apologize for inconvenience caused.

Thanks for your support and patience !!!

Regards,
CXC

and

Dear user,

Also it will be great if you can change the tile of bitcointalk thread to Resolved with your comments once your issue is resolved.

Regards,
CXC

I tried to get all btc out but it didnt work even though it should be free. I was able to get out 6btc now but not the rest. Then i saw there is a fee of 0.0005btc for each withdraw. After calculating that in i could get the rest of it out. I guess it will get to the target now. Some less then before because i had to buy the btc back but at least i have them back.

I will change the header to "be cautious" because other customers still are mislead to think they can get their money out with bitinstant, aurumxchange or mtgox while when trying it its not possible. Maybe with wire but then it would take days, not good for arbitrage.

@Bigpiggy01

Sorry... in no way i try to trade there anymore because i dont know if he only refilled the wallet now to get my thread here away. The offers there should have warned me anyway. Who sanely should let the orders there at this price when the bitcoinprice is crashing?
And... this messages above came 5 minutes after you wrote here. So you did speak before with the support and not 5 mins before now or you are from there.
Anyway... i lost my trust and wont say that this platform is all fine.

[fbastage]

invalid order that I placed, unbacked by any funds, as seen in 'Dashboard', taken just minutes ago.  it is still there. it is still a problem.




the order as seen in the Market (bids), which could potentially entice someone to put in an order thinking they were getting a good deal, taken just minutes ago




btc I tried to purchase in July 2012 (the 2nd of 2 sets of 199 that I tried and failed to purchase, after transferring funds expressly to buy these btc), taken July 2012 and included in my help ticket with cryptox




my trade history on that date, unfortunately not showing timestamps which would show that these orders (one limit order at around 8.22, one at around 8.32, a few minutes apart) went through simultaneously, missing the blocks of 199 I intended to buy.  There was no time for anyone to cancel those blocks and no one else bought those btc. this image was taken minutes ago




these are facts.

[starik69]

Code:

No Mtgox coupon available right now, please check it after some time.

[Bigpiggy01]

@Bigpiggy01

Sorry... in no way i try to trade there anymore because i dont know if he only refilled the wallet now to get my thread here away. The offers there should have warned me anyway. Who sanely should let the orders there at this price when the bitcoinprice is crashing?
And... this messages above came 5 minutes after you wrote here. So you did speak before with the support and not 5 mins before now or you are from there.
Anyway... i lost my trust and wont say that this platform is all fine.

What I really have an issue with is what fbastage is saying here:

my issue was with a flaw in their order book.  a user can put an order on the order book which appears to be a valid order, but is unfunded.  There is a bid at $8 USD for 124BTC ($992 total) that I have left there to demonstrate to the operators of the site - it is unfunded and anyone who tries to buy these btc at that price will be disappointed - and the site has done nothing about this issue since July 25, 2012.

Now if this were true you should be able to place a bid now with your 0 USD balance and create an order or say create a 100$ order with a 10$ balance both of which won't work.

I can understand that an advertized service being out of action is annoying as hell but seriously crying scam over it after 24hours is pretty ridiculous as well. I work for a competing exchange and have no reason to back this one in particular I just like to see that people have their facts straight.

[Bigpiggy01]

invalid order that I placed, unbacked by any funds, as seen in 'Dashboard', taken just minutes ago.  it is still there. it is still a problem.




the order as seen in the Market (bids), which could potentially entice someone to put in an order thinking they were getting a good deal, taken just minutes ago




btc I tried to purchase in July 2012 (the 2nd of 2 sets of 199 that I tried and failed to purchase, after transferring funds expressly to buy these btc), taken July 2012 and included in my help ticket with cryptox




my trade history on that date, unfortunately not showing timestamps which would show that these orders (one limit order at around 8.22, one at around 8.32, a few minutes apart) went through simultaneously, missing the blocks of 199 I intended to buy.  There was no time for anyone to cancel those blocks and no one else bought those btc. this image was taken minutes ago




these are facts.

No they're not as this is not what you're claiming here:

my issue was with a flaw in their order book.  a user can put an order on the order book which appears to be a valid order, but is unfunded.  There is a bid at $8 USD for 124BTC ($992 total) that I have left there to demonstrate to the operators of the site - it is unfunded and anyone who tries to buy these btc at that price will be disappointed - and the site has done nothing about this issue since July 25, 2012.

Since you're into screenshots please try placing an order that exceeds your current balance and see what it tells you. Yes it is annoying that you have to clean up after yourself and I agree it shouldn't be like that however it is no more misleading than what is going on in plenty of other places.

[fbastage]

Now if this were true you should be able to place a bid now with your 0 USD balance and create an order or say create a 100$ order with a 10$ balance both of which won't work.

straight facts: you can fund your account, place an order, remove your funds. 

the order is erroneously on the books.  this is bad.  I told them about this in late July.  they no fix.   confidence = 0.

summary:  this is bad.

this is in addition to various other issues with the site (services not offered as advertised).  these are also bad.

[Bigpiggy01]

Now if this were true you should be able to place a bid now with your 0 USD balance and create an order or say create a 100$ order with a 10$ balance both of which won't work.

straight facts: you can fund your account, place an order, remove your funds. 

the order is erroneously on the books.  this is bad.  I told them about this in late July.  they no fix.   confidence = 0.

summary:  this is bad.

this is in addition to various other issues with the site (services not offered as advertised).  these are also bad.

Agreed this is shitty but still a far cry from what you were saying initially.

[fbastage]

straight facts: you can fund your account, place an order, remove your funds.  

Agreed this is shitty but still a far cry from what you were saying initially.

this is actually what I said.  a user can create an order that has no backing (unfunded).  I understand how the way I phrased it led to confusion and I apologize for that, but the bigger point remains:  orders on the order book can not be trusted to be valid.  Add this to the various other issues, and there's a lot to consider before trusting this exchange to do business on.

Note: I had not called them a scam, simply added what I think is very relevant information to consider.

[SebastianJu]

Now if this were true you should be able to place a bid now with your 0 USD balance and create an order or say create a 100$ order with a 10$ balance both of which won't work.

straight facts: you can fund your account, place an order, remove your funds. 

the order is erroneously on the books.  this is bad.  I told them about this in late July.  they no fix.   confidence = 0.

summary:  this is bad.

this is in addition to various other issues with the site (services not offered as advertised).  these are also bad.

Ah thats what you are saying. So what happens if someone fills that order? Will he get nothing but paid for? If not then the problem is that there are orders that cant be filled. Thats a problem serious enough in my opinion. Other markets avoid that by having "available balances". So you cant withdraw money bound in an offer.

@Bigpiggy01 I already changed the header of this thread. People still feel scammed when they cant take their money out. I know at least one guy that still has money in there and no way to take it out. You know what? He feel scammed. And the website is still claiming you can take out money with bitinstant, mtgox or aurumxchange. Nothing is true. So no... its justified to warn before someone puts anything on this site.

[fbastage]

So what happens if someone fills that order? Will he get nothing but paid for?

No, you will not be charged with the order that doesn't fill. It simply disappears and is cleared from the book.

It is a problem, though, if seeing these orders entices you to move funds to this exchange.  It will also be a problem if you do not set a limit order and you end up paying too much or receiving too little for your order.

When it first happened to me (twice, remember, within minutes) I suspected the site of fraud and charged them with it in my help ticket.  I later realized in this case they were probably merely incompetent.  (I updated my help ticket with this as well as a sufficient description of the bug which would allow them to easily fix it.  shamefully it has not been fixed nor acknowledged since July ... 2 1/2 months)

If that's good enough for you to trade on, it's your call.

[SebastianJu]

No, i see this in the same line as other broken promises. You can easily think arbitrage would work but you cant get your money out and with this flaw the offers maybe even arent existing.

If they know that and didnt fix it in months then thast not correct. I think the header of this thread is fair enough now. Users are warned when they search google in some time and its justified because problems exist that will hurt users for sure.

And no... i want use that platform again. Too risky in my opinion. At least now.

[Bigpiggy01]

So what happens if someone fills that order? Will he get nothing but paid for?

No, you will not be charged with the order that doesn't fill. It simply disappears and is cleared from the book.

It is a problem, though, if seeing these orders entices you to move funds to this exchange.  It will also be a problem if you do not set a limit order and you end up paying too much or receiving too little for your order.

When it first happened to me (twice, remember, within minutes) I suspected the site of fraud and charged them with it in my help ticket.  I later realized in this case they were probably merely incompetent.  (I updated my help ticket with this as well as a sufficient description of the bug which would allow them to easily fix it.  shamefully it has not been fixed nor acknowledged since July ... 2 1/2 months)

If that's good enough for you to trade on, it's your call.

That actually sounds more like a problem with a delay between the site and the trade engine especially if this is as you say something that happens within minutes. I've seen that happen several times there as I run a bot on the exchange that logs the orderbook at the time of trading and occasionally have to fix unexecuted orders that should have executed. However if you miss that vital few seconds due to lag and there is a lot of it with cryptox   then yes it can cost money or missed trades. If the problem were caused by what you're describing you'd have to have peeps sitting there deliberately messing with the exchange and frankly there are much more effective ways to do so.

[SebastianJu]

Thats not necessary. You could block all access to the server as long as the last transaction isnt fulfilled. And when you withdraw money your available money is zero in the same moment. The same goes for created orders. A cpu is fast enough to secure this. No peeps needed.

[SebastianJu]

Some info from aurumxchange that could be interesting for some people.

I wrote the support of aurumxchange first because i was angry. The only told me after i put in all details what exchange i want to do that its not possible. Shortly after the mail i went back and they already changed the following:
* the feelist now shows N/A
* when you chose crypto to mtgox you get a message on top that it doesnt work

So that should be save now.

So i wrote them again to applaude them for their fast reacting and they wrote:
"Crypto has been VERY slow to pay their partners, that is why both Bitinstant and ourselves are not taking it at the moment. If the situation normalizes, we will gladly accept it again.

Best regards,"

So thats the reason why they wont work with crypto. So you now decide for yourself what you do or not do.