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Author Topic: Is stealing Bitcoins illegal?  (Read 24205 times)
Yuhfhrh
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December 13, 2012, 05:17:58 AM
 #161

What about this: I generate a new address and it turns out it already has coins in it. Would sending those coins to another address be illegal?  Cheesy
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chrisrico
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December 13, 2012, 04:46:25 PM
 #162

What about this: I generate a new address and it turns out it already has coins in it. Would sending those coins to another address be illegal?  Cheesy

What about this: I buy a new lock and it turns out the key opens the door to someone else's home. Would moving things from that house to mine be illegal?
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December 14, 2012, 06:35:49 AM
 #163

What about this: I generate a new address and it turns out it already has coins in it. Would sending those coins to another address be illegal?  Cheesy

What about this: I buy a new lock and it turns out the key opens the door to someone else's home. Would moving things from that house to mine be illegal?

Touché.
Jutarul
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December 14, 2012, 08:16:03 AM
 #164

What about this: I generate a new address and it turns out it already has coins in it. Would sending those coins to another address be illegal?  Cheesy

What about this: I buy a new lock and it turns out the key opens the door to someone else's home. Would moving things from that house to mine be illegal?
Wrong example.

You buy a new car, you drive home, you open the trunk and you find a huge gold bar. Finder's keepers.

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Luno
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December 14, 2012, 08:30:41 AM
 #165

Finding / discovering others money or property is not stealing, just keeping it is a crime. you have to make an effort to find the owner or turn it over to the authorities.

On the way home from a night out you find a girl intoxicated on the side walk. Would taking her home be kidnapping?
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December 14, 2012, 08:58:53 AM
 #166

On the way home from a night out you find a girl intoxicated on the side walk. Would taking her home be kidnapping?
Of course not, that's just being a good citizen. Oh wait, you mean taking her to my home... What if I take her to my home first, then take her back to her home afterwards? Not stealing, just borrowing. Wink

Will pretend to do unspeakable things (while actually eating a taco) for bitcoins: 1K6d1EviQKX3SVKjPYmJGyWBb1avbmCFM4
gocoinz
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December 30, 2012, 04:51:51 PM
 #167

Do any of you actually think a government is going to make laws to protect bitcoin users?

Many people use it to launder money, sell drugs and support terrorists. Anonymously.

Bitcoin is the governments worst nightmare.

I had the understanding that bitcoin was an underground currency void of big bank and government regulations.

If you want rules and laws stick to paypal.

The only laws that will be put in place for bitcoin will be punishment laws not protection laws.

I'm sure the laws will fall under homeland security or anti-terrorist laws.

As far as theft, how would you value the bitcoins?  Tell the judge that mt.gox says they are worth $12 a piece? Who is mt.gox really?

The beauty of bitcoin is that it is unregulated and not bound by laws.

It may not be morally right to steal bitcoins but if you think laws will be made to favor bitcoin users you are sadly mistaken.

just my opinion...i have no facts.

I'm new to these boards but IMO this is the best post in this thread.

Governments can pass/change laws but will only do so if it's in their own interest and certainly not to help BTC gain ground. I reckon governments are happy to see BTC scams happen as it may tag this currency "unsafe" to the general public.

ot
I'm here because I find BTC a fascinating phenomenon and joined BTC guild just to have a taste of BTC mining using just my pc's gpu. The same day the pool was targeted by a ddos attack and another ocured the next day. Made me think who would be interested in hampering the mining operation. Wouldn't be rival miners would it?
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December 30, 2012, 04:56:36 PM
 #168



There are also two countries where it may be a crime. In Japan a young man was arrested for "virtual mugging" in a game called Lineage 2. A Dutch teenager was also arrested for stealing virtual furniture in a visual chat environment called Habbo Hotel. However I can't find any information as to whether either of these arrests lead to prosecution and conviction. After the Dutch arrest a spokesperson for the company which developed Habbo Hotel said "It is theft because the items were bought with real money." So perhaps in Holland it is only illegal to steal coins which have been purchased and not mined.


I haven't read the entire thread but I and read about it in the paper. Basically if you forcefully take something from someone else (or force someone to give it to you) what represents value it's theft. What the company said is not relevant. (In the case the thieves physically threatened the boy to send them the virtual property).
CharlieContent
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December 30, 2012, 09:33:25 PM
 #169



There are also two countries where it may be a crime. In Japan a young man was arrested for "virtual mugging" in a game called Lineage 2. A Dutch teenager was also arrested for stealing virtual furniture in a visual chat environment called Habbo Hotel. However I can't find any information as to whether either of these arrests lead to prosecution and conviction. After the Dutch arrest a spokesperson for the company which developed Habbo Hotel said "It is theft because the items were bought with real money." So perhaps in Holland it is only illegal to steal coins which have been purchased and not mined.


I haven't read the entire thread but I and read about it in the paper. Basically if you forcefully take something from someone else (or force someone to give it to you) what represents value it's theft. What the company said is not relevant. (In the case the thieves physically threatened the boy to send them the virtual property).

I don't think you read even my entire first post. I am talking about fraud situations where people are tricked into willingly sending their coins, as I stated.
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December 30, 2012, 11:24:05 PM
 #170

I didn't respond to that (because I'm not certain). I responded to you saying that the case would imply that in the Netherlands stealing mined coins is not illegal while stealing bought coins is. My response? No, that is utter nonsense.
Rob E
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December 30, 2012, 11:26:29 PM
 #171

Why r you so interested in this charlie? What r you really trying to find out?   Cool
Rob E
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December 30, 2012, 11:39:10 PM
 #172

I didn't respond to that (because I'm not certain). I responded to you saying that the case would imply that in the Netherlands stealing mined coins is not illegal while stealing bought coins is. My response? No, that is utter nonsense.
Ok something being legal or not doesn't make it right or wrong something being Illegal doesn't make it right or wrong.  The people who decide what is legal or illegal  do not decide what universally is right or wrong . . They are not god. . the people who decide what is legal or illegal do not decide or influence the universal laws of what is right or wrong. . When something is taken from someone that doesn't belong to you you can very easily answer the question wether it is right or or wrong . . wether if you would have liked to have happened it to you.
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December 30, 2012, 11:56:06 PM
 #173

I didn't respond to that (because I'm not certain). I responded to you saying that the case would imply that in the Netherlands stealing mined coins is not illegal while stealing bought coins is. My response? No, that is utter nonsense.
Ok something being legal or not doesn't make it right or wrong something being Illegal doesn't make it right or wrong.  The people who decide what is legal or illegal  do not decide what universally is right or wrong . . They are not god. . the people who decide what is legal or illegal do not decide or influence the universal laws of what is right or wrong. . When something is taken from someone that doesn't belong to you you can very easily answer the question wether it is right or or wrong . . wether if you would have liked to have happened it to you.

Ok had to get in on the action....lol

Getting somebody to send u coins would be a simple case of "FRAUD"

"Obtaining benefit by deception" in australian law ...

BTC\LTC is benefit by anybody's viewpoint

The fraudulent story used to get you to transfer the BTC is the crime....

BTC is the agreed method of payment...(BTC\LTC can easily be classified as shares/bonds/etc)

Case closed...


OBJECT NOT FOUND
Rob E
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December 31, 2012, 12:18:23 AM
 #174

I define stealing as a way of acquiring what s not your's .
CharlieContent
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December 31, 2012, 10:53:01 PM
 #175

I didn't respond to that (because I'm not certain). I responded to you saying that the case would imply that in the Netherlands stealing mined coins is not illegal while stealing bought coins is. My response? No, that is utter nonsense.
Ok something being legal or not doesn't make it right or wrong something being Illegal doesn't make it right or wrong.  The people who decide what is legal or illegal  do not decide what universally is right or wrong . . They are not god. . the people who decide what is legal or illegal do not decide or influence the universal laws of what is right or wrong. . When something is taken from someone that doesn't belong to you you can very easily answer the question wether it is right or or wrong . . wether if you would have liked to have happened it to you.

You're an extremely dumb fuck Rob. Have a look at the name of this subsection of the forum. Now have a look at the name of the thread.

Now please have a think about whether this thread is about the morality of stealing, or whether it is discussing a legal issue.

You clearly cannot write, and it seems you have trouble with reading too. One wonders why you bother participating in a forum, since you are so poorly equipped to do so.

Happy new year you imbecile.
Rob E
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January 01, 2013, 01:51:42 AM
 #176

 Cool
DannyHamilton
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January 01, 2013, 07:20:03 AM
 #177

. . . Now have a look at the name of the thread
Now please have a think about whether this thread is about the morality of stealing, or whether it is discussing a legal issue . . .
It was a pretty dumb question to start with.

"Stealing" is the taking of another's property without legal right.  It is therefore illegal.

Now, if we are talking about providing the necessary bitcoin scripts to satisfy the requirements of a previous transaction output creating a situation where another person who thought they were the only one capable of providing those scripts can no longer do so and you still can for future transfer of control of the output . . .

Well, then that may or may not be illegal.  But if it is not illegal, then it is not stealing in which case you are no longer discussing whether "stealing" bitcoins is illegal. You are instead discussing whether some other non-stealing process is illegal.

Which brings us back to the original question: "Is stealing Bitcoins illegal?"

And back to the simple answer.  If there is an action that the judicial system decides to recognize as "stealing" bitcoins (or bitcoin "theft"), and you perform that action, then what you have done is illegal. Any other action that is determined not to be an act of "theft" or "stealing" may or may not be illegal, but also isn't part of a discussion about whether or not "stealing" is illegal.

As for whether any court has ever (or will ever) recognize any particular actions as bitcoin theft.  As far as I know, there has not been such a case tested in court.  As such it is quite difficult to know how any courts will act when presented with an opportunity to set a new precedent.  It will probably depend a lot on the specific facts of the case, and perhaps even more importantly the skill of the lawyers and the attitude of the particular judges deciding the case.

Rob E
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January 02, 2013, 12:37:58 AM
 #178

Yeh it -was - a really dumb question. . The guy bangs 2 bricks together and thinks he's inventing fire. .
Rob E
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January 02, 2013, 02:25:34 AM
Last edit: January 02, 2013, 08:14:21 AM by Rob E
 #179

What about this: I generate a new address and it turns out it already has coins in it. Would sending those coins to another address be illegal?  Cheesy

What are the odds of that happening ? Wink
chrisrico
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January 02, 2013, 05:41:08 AM
 #180

What about this: I generate a new address and it turns out it already has coins in it. Would sending those coins to another address be illegal?  Cheesy

What are the odds of the happening ? Wink
Probably about the same as you generating a new address that happens to be the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything.
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